[TheThinkTank] THE LIST

BIKERS bikers.insalyon at gmail.com
Tue May 26 22:40:07 PDT 2015


HI Joshua,


if you want to list the french diy bike collectives you should ask it on
the french mailing list:
here =>  https://www.heureux-cyclage.org/spip.php?page=listes_de_diffusion

I guess you won't be blamed if you ask in english

in the meantime you can add us:

Les Bikers
https://www.facebook.com/bikersinsa?fref=ts

bye,

Roman

2015-05-27 4:44 GMT+08:00 La Bikery <labikery at gmail.com>:

> La Bikery in Moncton NB Canada isn't on the list yet that I know of!
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
>
>
> *Coopérative La Bikery Co-operative*
> *Centre de vélo communautaire *
> *Community Bicycle Centre*
>
>
> *120 boul. Assomption blvd,*
> * Moncton NB*
>
>
> *Jeudis: 17 h à 20 h *
> * Thursdays:  5 pm - 8 pm*
> *Samedis: 11 h à 14 h*
> *        Saturdays: 11 pm - 2 pm*
>
>
>
> <http://labikery.ca/>
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/LaBikery> <https://twitter.com/LaBikery>
>
> *CHECK US OUT BY CLICKING ON THE LINKS ABOVE*
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Angel York <aniola at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *What I want to avoid supporting are people using a 501c status to
>> "recycle" bikes for a personal profit (an astonishing number of people) I'm
>> also wary of the religious non-profits using bikes as an evangelical tool
>> (also a surprisingly large number).*
>> I haven't encountered these.  Could you provide examples? While you can
>> work for a 501c, the IRS has the following to say:
>> The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private
>> interests
>> <http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Inurement-Private-Benefit-Charitable-Organizations>,
>> and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to
>> the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization
>> engages in an excess benefit transaction
>> <http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Intermediate-Sanctions-Excess-Benefit-Transactions>
>> with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise
>> tax
>> <http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Intermediate-Sanctions>
>> may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the
>> transaction.
>>
>> http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Exemption-Requirements-Section-501%28c%29%283%29-Organizations
>>
>> I'm aware of Bike Churches (the original one started on Church Street),
>> but not of religious organizations using bikes as an evangelical tool.
>> Except maybe to evangelize about bikes and biking?
>>
>> *All that said, THE LIST is getting a lot of request from charities and
>> educational non-profits. It's difficult for me to know who is actually
>> innovating with social relationships and who is just filling a local
>> material need. Both are important. Suggestions? *
>>
>> If they are both important, then I would list anyone who asks.  I would
>> expect that people are mostly going to be looking at your list to figure
>> out who their local bike-related organizations are.
>>
>> On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Angel York <aniola at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *As long as co-op are exploring ways of distributing decision making
>>> power than I think they qualify for my purposes.*
>>> For instance, I can think of a food *co-op* that is run by a board of
>>> directors, and a has a *standard hierarchical management structure*.
>>> The owners (many of the shoppers) in theory can vote on big decisions, but
>>> if the food co-op already has an outcome in mind, that is absolutely going
>>> to skew the vote.
>>>
>>> My current food* co-op *is run by a board of directors, and has a*
>>> collective management structure. * The owners (many of the shoppers) in
>>> theory can vote on big decisions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Angel York <aniola at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think one is going to be able to find non-profit organizations that
>>>> choose to explore ways of distributing decision-making power and
>>>> collectives & cooperatives that do not, and that it may not necessarily
>>>> always be obvious which is which.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Joshua Hoffman <joshuahof at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Angel, et al.,
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the distinction you make between *co-ops* and
>>>>> *collectives.* It sounds like your shop is innovating with the power
>>>>> relationships that surround decision making. I'm excited to see how you
>>>>> grow.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's my understanding that capitalism is a firstly a description of
>>>>> our social relationships, and secondly our economic system. Because it's
>>>>> not just our economy but society itself that is capitalistic (in reality
>>>>> the two are the same) living a true alternative is actually impossible. We
>>>>> can aspire to take anti-capitalist actions by experimenting with new
>>>>> non-hierarchical systems for the production/distribution of goods and
>>>>> services. I'm interested in exploring those alternatives.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be clear, I don't think that hierarchical power structures are very
>>>>> innovative. Which is why I'm less interested in traditional non-profits and
>>>>> more interested in collectives and co-ops that may use a 501c status to
>>>>> explore what's possible. As long as co-op are exploring ways of
>>>>> distributing decision making power than I think they qualify for my
>>>>> purposes. What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> What I want to avoid supporting are people using a 501c status to
>>>>> "recycle" bikes for a personal profit (an astonishing number of people) I'm
>>>>> also wary of the religious non-profits using bikes as an evangelical tool
>>>>> (also a surprisingly large number).
>>>>>
>>>>> All that said, THE LIST is getting a lot of request from charities and
>>>>> educational non-profits. It's difficult for me to know who is actually
>>>>> innovating with social relationships and who is just filling a local
>>>>> material need. Both are important. Suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> The votes so far:
>>>>> Include ALL 501c bike related orgs - 6
>>>>> Include only collectives, etc - 2
>>>>>
>>>>> - Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Angel York <aniola at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both of the bike collectives I have volunteered at are
>>>>>> consensus-based organizations.  The Davis Bike Collective spent a year
>>>>>> putting together its by-laws and running them past a lawyer to ensure that
>>>>>> the board had no formal decision-making power, but was instead beholden to
>>>>>> the decisions made by the core volunteers.  I believe the legal definition
>>>>>> of a co-op has to do with purchasing power, where as a collective we didn't
>>>>>> have to have that orientation and could instead focus on our priority,
>>>>>> which was helping people learn how to fix bikes. Food co-ops are usually
>>>>>> co-ops because they are about *buying* food. So I'm not sure that a co-op
>>>>>> is actually less capitalist, and given what I hear you saying you value, I
>>>>>> would be also asking how the various organizations are making their
>>>>>> decisions.  Also, have you checked the wiki page of community bicycle
>>>>>> organizations?  It has a long-standing list including the criteria that I
>>>>>> believe more or less helps guide who might be interested in participating
>>>>>> in, say, this list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The more lists the better! I look forward to thr day when there are
>>>>>> so many lists of community bike organizations that you need lists of lists
>>>>>> to keep track of them! Thanks for creating one such list!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Angel York
>>>>>> On May 21, 2015 1:17 PM, "Joshua Hoffman" <joshuahof at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks to Eric, Paul, Jeff, Kevin, and Matt for taking the time to
>>>>>>> engage. Also thanks to everyone who shared new shops to add. I'll get on it
>>>>>>> (that includes you Jeff). It turns out I was only subscribed to the "list"
>>>>>>> email that arrives once a week so I missed a few of your replies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The line is fine but its clear. I agree that cooperatives and
>>>>>>> community shops are often different. I also agree that for-profit shops can
>>>>>>> engage in so called "non-market" activities. My main criteria is DIY
>>>>>>> (free/barter/cheap). If there is a second criteria it's a *free*
>>>>>>> EAB program. My not-completely-arbitrary preferences in descending order
>>>>>>> are cooperatives > community shops > service-oriented for-profit. That
>>>>>>> logic is based on my assumption that orgs designed with cooperative
>>>>>>> structures will find engaging in non-market behaviors easier. When we share
>>>>>>> the risk/rewards of acting there is less incentive to shirk, pass important
>>>>>>> ethical decisions "up the ladder", or use the "bottom line" as an excuse.
>>>>>>> Yes, cooperative work can be messy and slow, but it can also liberate. For
>>>>>>> many people their experience with a cooperative bike shop is the first time
>>>>>>> in their lives when their voice mattered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My reason for creating the list was to get new ideas for how people
>>>>>>> doing community bike work engage with their communities. Shops that
>>>>>>> focus on sales, or who use sales as their measure of success are going to
>>>>>>> engage in a different manner that is less interesting to my aims. We
>>>>>>> can start another thread on cooperatives if anyone wants. ;)  If
>>>>>>> anyone wants to learn more about worker directed non-profits there is a
>>>>>>> webinar next week.
>>>>>>> <http://www.theselc.org/worker_self_directed_nonprofits_20150526>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PLEASE NOTE: I'm getting most of my information by snooping through
>>>>>>> websites and facebook pages. If I missed a shop or if I misunderstood what
>>>>>>> a shops/orgs mission please correct me. I think Eric pointed out that
>>>>>>> Uptown Bikes is for-profit (WB and Blackstone are both on the list). You
>>>>>>> can leave a comment on this google.doc
>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S0FOc6ZJA-wYWo4qZ4yx75SBFq53aD8ELY1JGBt6UQY/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Joshua Hoffman <
>>>>>>> joshuahof at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is a searchable document
>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S0FOc6ZJA-wYWo4qZ4yx75SBFq53aD8ELY1JGBt6UQY/edit?usp=sharing>
>>>>>>>> if you want to check for your shop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NOTE: So far THE LIST
>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/lists/792013340883812> only includes
>>>>>>>> shops that run cooperatively or at very least include some DIY elements.
>>>>>>>> I've done this for a specific reason.... I'm an anti-capitalist. I'm
>>>>>>>> interested in how bikes build community and engage people in acts of
>>>>>>>> cooperation and self-determination. There are many "non-profit" shops that
>>>>>>>> sell used bikes for high prices because they believe it will "raise the
>>>>>>>> perceived value" of bikes. There is nothing inherently wrong with this
>>>>>>>> approach except that I'm not interested in money or perceived value. I'm
>>>>>>>> interested in more people learning to do more things for themselves and for
>>>>>>>> others. Cooperatives have the potential to lower costs by focusing on
>>>>>>>> mission rather than profit. They can also transform the social
>>>>>>>> relationships between humans by substituting hierarchy for equality. The
>>>>>>>> benefits of encouraging DIY are obvious.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you all think? Should I include all "non-profit" bike shop
>>>>>>>> regardless of their mission? What are the arguments for/against?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 6:52 PM, Joshua Hoffman <
>>>>>>>> joshuahof at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've put together a Facebook list of all the community bike shops
>>>>>>>>> who's pages I could find. 133 in total from around the world. This list is
>>>>>>>>> constantly turning up amazing stories and new insights (lots of job
>>>>>>>>> opportunities as well).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/lists/792013340883812
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if I need to add other shops.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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