[TheThinkTank] Recyclers v. Evangelists, was: low end bikes, Invisible riders
Erik Ryberg
ryberg at seanet.com
Thu May 29 21:17:14 PDT 2008
I think this is a great discussion.
At BICAS in Tucson we have recently noticed a (gentle) tension in our
collective that I am calling the divide between the bike evangelists and
the bike recyclers. Putting it very roughly and doing justice to no
one, the evangelists want to get as many people on bikes as possible and
if that means importing cheap single-speeds and selling new bikes, they
would do it. The recyclers on the other hand believe in making do with
the mountains of bikes we already have, and piecing together what we can.
I'm coming down on the evangelist side of things (at least so far), but
I have no trouble seeing the logic in the recycler side, and in fact
have been a little surprised to find myself holding the position I do.
Anyway, I think I notice the same positions here in this discussion.
Erik Ryberg
Mark Rehder wrote:
> Indeed, 1-speed bikes are just fine for some folks. I personally think
> the fixie fad has gotten quite stupid, but once Wallmart starts selling
> them then the Apocalypse will surely have arrived. ;)
>
> I have a cruiser bike with one gear and back-pedal brake. I ride it for
> fun, and it goes fast enough on flat terrain. I ride it when I just
> feel like riding something simple. No logic to it, just emotion. Would
> I ride it for long distances? Sure, if it was flat or gently rolling.
>
> But my main bike is a Trek 520 with 21 speeds. I don't need all those
> gears most of the time (like Chris, I live in Ottawa), but they are
> there. I have a custom-built chopper with 10 speeds
> (http://drumbent.com/chopper.html), and it's another goofy ride, I use
> it in parades and cruising with friends, but it tires me out to go more
> than a few kilometers. But I do like riding it...
>
> I also have a cargo trike with 21 speeds and electric assist, a Raleigh
> Twenty folding bike with 3 speeds, and a winter bike with a 7-speed
> Nexus hub. If I had to pare them down I'd keep the Trek, the winter
> bike, and the cargo trike. But the others still have their uses, and if
> I had to even ride with a single speed I would survive (though my knees
> might not like it).
>
> BTW, pretty well all those old 3-speed bikes are geared way too high. I
> guess Raleigh et al thought a cadence of around 50 was good... With any
> 3-speed I've had the first thing I did was swap out the stock 18T cog
> for either a 20 or 22 (Sheldon's site shows how to adapt individual
> cassette cogs for this). Once the gearing is lowered I think 3-speeds
> make for the perfect urban bike. Umm, until one tries to stop safely
> with those steel rims in the rain... :P
>
> Mark Rehder - Director
> re-Cycles Bicycle Co-op
> http://re-cycles.ca
>
>
> On 29-May-08, at 2:00 PM, Chris Wells wrote:
>
>> I am always surprised by the number of customers requesting a single
>> speed here in Ottawa. We aren't exactly mountainous but it is by no
>> means flat and personally I can't even get around on a 3spd. However
>> many seem to prefer and be perfectly happy with a 20-50 year old single
>> speed. As long as they are happy and riding then who are we to complain
>> or criticize?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> PS I imagine most vintage single speeds stick to the downtown core and
>> avoid hills while I tend to commute 20+km and often don't have time to
>> explore ways around the hills.
>>
>> --- Michael Wolfe <gzuphoesdown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> the only "crime" i see here is converting a bike into a single speed.
>>> While
>>> such a ridiculous notion might be fine for bike messengers of days
>>> past
>>> who did see the benefit of it being cheap and stupid such that no one
>>> would
>>> ever consider stealing one, it's out of place for ordinary civilians.
>>> Isn't
>>> the point to get bikes to ordinary people? Most people, as children
>>> learned
>>> to ride bikes with gears which begs that even a child can see the
>>> benefit.
>>> Even as this discussion was going on yesterday a neighbor pulled up
>>> to his
>>> home with a 30 pack on the top tube of his Magna and then proceeded
>>> to
>>> shuttle a child off to another destination in the same manner. The
>>> notion
>>> of a one gear bike to suffice for his daily activities would seem
>>> ludicrous
>>> to him for sure. The bikes they have stay outside all night and
>>> never seem
>>> to disappear which seems to support the theory suggested yesterday.
>>> hmmmf.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/29/08, kyle mckinley <bicirider at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> the biggest problems with the walmart bikes seem to be related to
>>> (a)
>>>> shifting and (b) weight. both of these are mitigated by turning the
>>> bike
>>>> into a single speed. The safest way to do this on the cheap is to
>>> take apart
>>>> the freewheel and only leave one gear (so that it won't shift up
>>> and break
>>>> the axel) and use just the middle chainring in front.
>>>> The shocks on magnas and the like usually don't have much travel,
>>> so it
>>>> seems to work pretty well to pull it off and replace it with an old
>>> rigid
>>>> fork from the boneyard (as opposed to "real" modern mountain bikes
>>> that
>>>> require a problemsolver rigid fork to not result in a dangerously
>>> steep
>>>> headtube angle).
>>>> I agree that it is a good idea to rehad these bikes. The problem
>>> for a lot
>>>> of orgs is that there isn't the room to store both the walmart
>>> bikes and the
>>>> older, nicer, communters and mountain bikes. And those old bikes
>>> are better
>>>> for the rider, and less of a nightmare to fix up.
>>>> Moreover, regarding this whole thread; I can appreciate the general
>>> sense
>>>> that it is important to help everyone feel good about zer
>>> bike--even if it
>>>> is from walmart--but I would still contend that by purposefully
>>>> manufacturing bikes that break immediately, and are super difficult
>>> to fix
>>>> when they break, these companies are perpetuating a crime against
>>> the
>>>> bicycle... a crime so vast that the only point of comparison is the
>>>> dasterdly deed of "carbon fiber".
>>>> Surely there is a way that we can learn to articulate a rejection
>>> of the
>>>> continued manufacture of these bikes (most of which, despite our
>>> best
>>>> efforts, head quickly to the landfill) without blaming our patrons
>>> for
>>>> buying them. How exactly we do that depends on the individual
>>>> interaction--and how busted the roadmaster actually is.
>>>> thanks-
>>>> kyle
>>>> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 1:38 PM, james blesdoe
>>> <jamesbleds0e at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> At the Bicycle Kitchen we have started making the Wall Mart bikes
>>> work and
>>>>> placing them on the street. We use we them for training our
>>> volunteers
>>>>> and even though they are only fact similes of a real bicycle i
>>> use a Murry
>>>>> for polo.
>>>>>
>>>>> One poor fellow, who's bike feel off the bus bike rack and front
>>> wheel
>>>>> mangled dragged his single speed coaster brake pin striped
>>> be-fendered Huffy
>>>>> to our shop. He said, "i have had (when offered a modern bike)
>>> those and
>>>>> they get stolen. I ride this everywhere. I have never had problems
>>> with it.
>>>>> i like it and just want to keep it." he lost the front fender
>>> and we found
>>>>> a new front wheel. cost him twenty bucks and he is back on the
>>> road.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy rollin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> *Michael Wolfe <gzuphoesdown at gmail.com>* wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I like where the discussion is going on Low End Walmart bikes. To
>>>>> provide an interesting prospective, check out this article in
>>> Bicycling
>>>>> Magazine. It highlights a part of the cycling population that we
>>> not only
>>>>> fail to recognize, but often are oblivious to. It's kind of long
>>> but a
>>>>> worthy read.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6610,s1-3-12-13639-1-P,00.html
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> If an Easyrider rides easy, then a bicirider rides bicis
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--
Erik B. Ryberg
Attorney at Law
445 West Simpson Street
Tucson, AZ 85701
phone: (520) 622-3333
fax: (520) 792-6677
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