Coming late to this thread, I plan to test today after work.
Fill in the blank sounds like a good option. Especially since there are a ton of pronouns.
I think it's great to put the question on the form. Maybe in the future there can be a sort of hover over to see an explanation of the question, like we have for notes (see attached ScreenShot) But this can be later. I'm definitely not trying to add more work. But it would behoove us to consider the explantation for the question. I will try to think of some draft language that others can build on.
I also just wanted to note that this is an interesting conversation and might make a good talk for this year BB, or part of a larger talk.
Thanks for all the work so far. This is going to be a great BikeBike!
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Graham Stewart grhmstwrt@gmail.com wrote:
- Normalize the question and get people thinking about it in advance.
A lot of time is spent in workshops discussing this and introducing the concept of gender neutral language and pronouns and maybe this can advance that discussion.
- The only specific case where we would use it is communicating with
hosts prior to the conference. I'm aware this works differently in the grammatically gendered languages of French and Spanish, but I expect we could translate to he,she,they most of the time or send a follow up email if unsure.
Basically, we are saying.... this matters, we care enough to ask.
If you are convinced that it is going to be too complicated, we should
leave it off.
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com wrote:
You're right, the language has generally defaulted to English out of necessity but making that assumption for native Spanish and French speakers can often be offensive, plus you will get this data in Spanish and French anyway as users will register in these languages, will you translate it back to English?
If you are not using them for name tags, how are you using this data?
*From:* BikeBikeOrganizing <bikebikeorganizing-bounces@li sts.bikecollectives.org> on behalf of Graham Stewart <grhmstwrt@gmail.com
*Sent:* June 12, 2017 9:28:51 AM
*To:* bikebikeorganizing@lists.bikecollectives.org *Subject:* Re: [Bike!Bike! Organizing] Registration and some other stuff
Ok,
I received the workbench email after a little delay.
A couple people weighed in on our pronoun question discussion. We will not be pre-printing name tags and will let people do their own. Yes it should be an optional question. Forgot to mention that. The language thing is more difficult, but If it is an open question rather than checkbox, dropdown, etc I think it will work ok.
In regards to language more generally, it seems to me that the working language of BB except likely Guadalajara has been english. While many people attending speak spanish, or other first languages, nearly all have basic proficiency in english.
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com wrote:
Thanks Graham, I'm looking into with's going on on bikebike.org right now and expect it to be worked out in the next 30 minutes, but in the meantime if you want to make copy changes to the preview site I can copy it over later. I also looked into the workbench (if that's what you meant), I'm getting confirmation emails there, I'm not sure why you're not.
Let's talk about the pronoun option a little more today, it should be quick to implement but it's complicated to come up with a good solution. I think the question should be added to the name step and should be optional, there are some people who attend who will still be figuring this out for themselves and others who might not be completely 'woke' to the concept and might get confused (I would hope that this would be a good learning ground for them).
Our first option would be to let the user select from a predefined list (he/she/they/...), we would need to decide on that list now and hope that it works for all participants. Will he, she, and they be sufficient? Does "They" translate well into French and Spanish?
The second option would be to let the user enter whatever they want, this would ensure that the user gets what they want. However, how do we deal with French and Spanish speakers? In fact, how will you deal with pronouns on name tags themselves with non-English speakers? Both "Rosa María (She)" nor "Rosa María (Ella)" would be confusing, non-Spanish speakers may think her name is Ella, non-English speakers won't know what "(She)" means, leaving back at option 1 and we would then need to write "Rosa María (She/Ella/Elle)".
I am not against this idea, I'm just not sure there is a good workable solution yet but I would love to have a deeper discussion on the subject. What does everyone else think? Can someone see an easy way to make this work? What is your plan for including pronouns for non-English speakers on name tags?
Thanks everyone! Godwin
*From:* BikeBikeOrganizing <bikebikeorganizing-bounces@li sts.bikecollectives.org> on behalf of Graham Stewart < grhmstwrt@gmail.com> *Sent:* June 12, 2017 8:31 AM *To:* bikebikeorganizing@lists.bikecollectives.org *Subject:* Re: [Bike!Bike! Organizing] Registration and some other stuff
I was able to access the preview site and the registration questions seem to be good now. For translation of changes into Spanish, if you can reach out to those who have done it in the past, that would be great. The organizing group had a quick discussion about asking about pronouns, and we would still rather include the question, though not if it holds up getting registration open.
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Graham Stewart grhmstwrt@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Godwin, I'm in Chicago and will not regularly have internet access again until Monday. I do this morning and I can't get logged in to change the front page text, or logged in to the test bench, as I am not receiving the confirmation email.
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey folks, the new registration process in almost ready and Graham has been helping to test however it would be great to get some more feedback and suggestions for copy changes before getting the content translated into French and Spanish. You can view the screen captures once logged into the workbench https://workbench.bikecollectives.org/ here: https://workbench.bikecollectives.org/apps/b ikebike/pages/conferences/register. You can also test the process itself on the preview server here: https://preview-en.bikebike.org/
Feel free to create fake accounts, you can create as many as you like by inserting '+anything' before your email address' @ symbol. For example I might use goodgodwin+test1@hotmail.com, or goodgodwin+somethingelse@hotmail.com, any emails I get will be sent to goodgodwin@hotmail.com.
A few things to keep in mind:
- PayPal payments are set up and will charge your account if you
make one
- Admin tools need some updates, don't expect these to work right
now but they will be working by the time you need to use them
- Questions are different depending on your answers, for example,
you will be asked if you can house attendees but not be asked if you need housing if you enter your location as Winnipeg
Feel free to email me feedback, discuss it here, or comment on the workbench. If you feel like making copy changes you can also do this on the workbench in the English translations or just send me the changes that you'd like to see.
*Front page*
- Can we get an updated image for the poster? The one on the site
is low resolution and fairly grainy.
- The language on the description contains several obscenities.
Although most attendees wouldn't bat an eye at this I would suggest modifying this as there will be people of all ages and faiths that may attend and may be offended by this language. In addition, there will be people travelling internationally and the language may make the conference appear less legitimate to border security or organizations helping to fund travel.
- When can we expect to get a Spanish translation for the
conference description? I can help by contacting Spanish translators if you need help with this
- I plan to break up the conference description into more sections
so that we can reduce the content on the front page and make extended details available on the conference details page. Does anyone have any issues with this?
Regarding English copy, would it be better for me to work one-on-one with someone? Would someone like to volunteer to do this?
Cheers!
Godwin
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