Ok, so doing this over the thinktank doesn't really work. I created a little voting app to let anyone interested vote on the name and add more possible names to that list: http://drupal.thegodwin.ca/software. If you have another idea for a name, get on there quick to let more people vote on it. There's a long description of the app, ability to comment, and email list for updates there too.

Thanks!
.godwin 


From: goodgodwin@hotmail.com
To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:58:49 -0600
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software

Ok, I'll try to answer this one in case anyone else is concerned and not finding the motives clear, but I'm really cautioning against more discussion on this topic, I feel it's still a little early for most of this and people who are not interested are likely getting annoyed.

The problem as I see it is really three-fold
  1. Integration: you're right in saying that there is a ton of great software out there already, problem is that it takes a ton of software to get what needs to get done done and requires a lot more work than should be required.  Hopefully new shops won't have to waste time trying to research tools and processes but instead be able to download a package and get down to business much more quickly and efficiently.
  2. Customization: our organizations are generally vary quite a bit from one to another but are often even more varied from the norm of what most people design software for, particularly for-profit models. We often need to keep more details records to apply for grants and we often offer services which are not considered when creating software for average for-profit models (think about the bike shares that many of us offer or the fact that many of us are membership based and have different rules around that). With software which is owned and created by our community, we have the potential to get what each of us needs without compromise.
  3. Cost: The Bike Farm and other fairly established shops are in a very lucky position, you can afford things. You can afford things that many other shops, especially startups cannot such as sophisticated software. Many organizations which I have spoken to are still using spreadsheets to record  data.

Please keep in mind that this discussion on POS systems and hardware is somewhat of a tangent from this discussion, but again shops like yours that can afford to use the Square are going to benefit from this the least, and also keep in mind that money tracking would hopefully be only one small part of the system in the end.

Momoko: I'm designing it so that everything should easily be accessed as a service so it can be ported to a Java or C# application for example. PHP is my choice because I aim it to be distributable and it is the most common and often cheapest to get hosting for.

.godwin



> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:21:09 -0700
> From: frank@bikefarm.org
> To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I wanted to chime in here as this issue is important to me.
>
> At Bike Farm (www.bikefarm.org) we use Square to take debit/credit
> cards via smartphone. It is by far the cheapest and easiest to use
> with very low fees. The barrier to entry is basically training your
> volunteers and obtaining a smart phone. Signing up is free, there's
> no monthly rate and they mail you a card reader for no cost.
>
> I wish we had an iPad in our shop as Square's point of sale software
> is so elegant. Many more small businesses in addition to non-profits
> are moving to Square. Their iPad app works with POS hardware (receipt
> printer, cash drawer), does inventory management, records customer
> info and even tracks cash payments. Even the cost of an iPad (used or
> new) is cheap compared to even the most basic POS system and the
> software is free. MerchantOS is a great alternative for shops that
> already have merchant accounts/payment processors and can afford their
> monthly fees.
>
> One downside to Square is that they don't have an API for rolling your
> own integrations. However, most POS software doesn't either. Using
> Square does not require a merchant account which mitigates the iPad
> cost issue in my opinion. New non-profits or small co-ops probably
> couldn't get a decent merchant account with affordable rate anyway.
>
> To those working on this software, I don't understand the scope of
> this project. There's already a ton of great options out there for
> every feature mentioned. What's the unmet need this software will
> help with? I would be inclined to help if I knew a little more about
> the overall goals.
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:23 AM, <christopher@holisticcycles.com> wrote:
> > I have a droid and use square
> >
> >
> > Christopher Wallace
> > Holistic Cycles
> > 140 Harrison St
> > Oak Park, IL. 60304
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
> > From: momoko saunders <analyst@bikefarm.org>
> > Date: Wed, July 04, 2012 12:08 pm
> > To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
> >
> > I wonder if we can get a spread sheet of the data that Square creates. It
> > might be useful to develop an app that takes the data from square, and
> > transforms it into useful data for bike collectives. I've had a look at
> > their web page https://squareup.com/register
> >
> > It's unfortunate that you must have an ipad to use Square as a POS.
> >
> > The data base appears to collect this info:
> > date, product, price, payment method, discounts,
> >
> > i've got a theory that one can use a POS for membership data base, as well
> > as volunteer data base. But i'm not sure if Square collects data about the
> > customer. That would be necessary. I like that you can have cash or check
> > or credit card transactions stored. I just wish you could also have it on a
> > desktop. A lot of our volunteers are against the use of an ipad in the shop
> > and I understand. It sends an odd message to the people who come into the
> > shop for help. We're already in danger of adding to the gentrification of
> > our neighborhood, the last thing we need is is fancy chrome apple products
> > to alienate people even further...
> >
> > Godwin,
> >
> > I of course support you in your effort to develop this web based app.
> > Hopefully you/we can think of a simple solution that is flexible. I'm
> > terrible at naming things... So i've got no suggestions there. But I've
> > forwarded on your email to my developer friends. I'm sure we can add some
> > sections in. I assume you'll get it up on github?
> >
> > cool
> >
> > we'll talk soon
> > -m
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison
> > <jonathan.morrison@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> If you haven't checked out Square, you really should. It is cheap and
> >> simple, and that might be enough for most shops.
> >>
> >> https://squareup.com/?gclid=CJfQsMOu_rACFQkZQgodBEtl8A#register
> >>
> >> At least it might provide some ideas...
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >>
> >> Jonathan Morrison
> >> c: 801-688-0183
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Godwin ! <goodgodwin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I’ve also had reservations about going with a web-based system but in the
> >>> end I think it’s the most adaptable solution. I’m not worrying about
> >>> hardware integration for now, I’m pretty sure anything is possible but I
> >>> think that would be far down the list of requirements for most shops that
> >>> need free software.
> >>>
> >>> It will be open source and modular, so there won’t be a single point
> >>> person for the entire system, I’ll do my best to set up a good environment
> >>> for users to interact with the developers and for developers to provide
> >>> documentation. This is a bit of an experiment but I have far more faith in
> >>> open and crowd sourcing technologies than I do having a long term individual
> >>> or group in charge (including myself).
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> .g
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Jonathan Morrison
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 3:49:13 PM
> >>>
> >>> To: The Think Tank
> >>> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
> >>>
> >>> Godwin,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Will it be able to swipe credit card? Interface with a cash drawer? Or
> >>> scan a UPC? My concern with any web-based system is that you don't have
> >>> access to the necessary lower level hardware of a useful POS system.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Also, how much will you be charging for tech support, or what level of
> >>> on-going support can users expect? Or will use be at your own risk with no
> >>> implied support?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Name Suggestion: PIF - Pedaling/Paying It Forward
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>>
> >>> Jonathan Morrison
> >>> c: 801-688-0183
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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