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Today's Topics:

1. On Shop tools (Sherief)
2. Re: On Shop tools (joshua muir)
3. Re: On Shop tools (Mark Rehder)
4. Re: On Shop tools (Mario Bruzzone)
5. Re: On Shop tools (Jonathan Morrison)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:53:05 -0500
From: Sherief
Subject: [TheThinkTank] On Shop tools
To: Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
Message-ID:
<6f24d4530803310953n69ccb215h3f893d96c17ab91f@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello all,

This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the
thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like.
We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta
Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least
one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently
switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the
catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and
even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to
make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my
question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with
broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages?
Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can
withstand a bit of overeager volunteering?


Best,
Sherief
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:34:04 -0700
From: "joshua muir"
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] On Shop tools
To: "The Think Tank"
Message-ID:
<8ab5b3a80803311034h666690bem18134e190cbf42ec@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Tools break. but as to the chain tool and pumps:
I like the Park tool (CT-3?- threaded replacable pin). before I hand
someone a chaintool at the Bikechurch, or use one, I look at two things:
spin the handle to see if the pin is bent, and look closely at the end to
see iff it's mushroomed. if either is the case, use in that condition can
brake the pin or cause it to become stuck in the chain/unthread itself,
etc.- all negative situations.

if the pin is mushroomed, grind the edges off to a little bevel. (we have a
terrible little hand crank grinder for such tasks). If it's bent, replace
it.

as far as pumps go. . . silca pumps are the most durable and most
servicable. generally, the presta chuck is ruined by folks shoving it on a
schrader valve- clear labeling and user education is the answer. I am
generally responsible (as oposed to irresponsible) for the pumps here, and
they need frequent maintenence- my complaint is about the lack of good
schrader chucks.

josh

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sherief wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the
> thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like.
> We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta
> Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least
> one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently
> switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the
> catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and
> even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to
> make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my
> question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with
> broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages?
> Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can
> withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
>
>
> Best,
> Sherief
>
> _______________________________________________
> Thethinktank mailing list
> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
>
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>
>


--

Joshua Muir
joshua@santacruzhub.org

Frances Cycles -- francescycles.com
Handbuilt cycling framesets
Touring, Track, Road,Cross, and Cycletrucks for hauling any distance


The Bicycle Church Collective
Community Self-Service Cycle Repair
3pm to 7pm everyday except Sunday
703 Pacific Ave (enter on Spruce St)
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
(831) 425-2453
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:54:08 -0400
From: Mark Rehder
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] On Shop tools
To: The Think Tank
Message-ID: <5F78A007-B3C1-472B-9578-53C19341C069@re-cycles.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

We've had the same problems.

For the pump, I would avoid the ones with the 'Smart Head" (one head
works for both valves). There's always one person who looks at that
head and thinks of the older single heads where one had to open them
to flip the bits around for each valve. Sure enough, a Smart Head
gets unscrewed and the various tiny bits scatter and you never get it
back together. When this happened to our Topeak pump we simply
ordered a dual head t avoid further issues.

We get most of our bike-specific tools donated to us by MEC. We
started out with one of their $25 floor pumps and busted that in
fairly short order. We went and bought our own shop quality Topeak,
and aside from the above Smart Head issue it held up longer than I
thought it would. MEC no longer sells Park tools, but use another
company called Filzer. When we requested another pricey pump they
asked to try out the Filzer one as an experiment (we've become their
"tough testers") and aside from the handle coming unglued (it was
taped back together) it has held up well.

For chain tools, we too switched from Park under the advice of using
cheap ones and treating them as disposable. But they are not nice to
use, and most don't have the second slot for pin bumping. So we've
gone back to better ones and try to make sure people use them correctly.

Mark



On 31-Mar-08, at 12:53 PM, Sherief wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to
> pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage
> and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with
> Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not
> a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools
> breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the
> nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog,
> but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and
> even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We
> try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do,
> etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar
> experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically
> good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any
> recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a
> bit of overeager volunteerin g?
>
>
> Best,
> Sherief
> _______________________________________________
> Thethinktank mailing list
> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-
> bikecollectives.org



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:10:01 -0700
From: "Mario Bruzzone"
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] On Shop tools
To: "The Think Tank"
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

With the Park Tools, you can replace just the pins--it's usually much
cheaper (and creates less waste!) than buying a whole new tool.

But yes, those are things that break all the time for us as well.

Cheers,
Mario Bruzzone
Bike Kitchen
San Francisco


On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sherief wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the
> thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like.
> We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta
> Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least
> one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently
> switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the
> catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and
> even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to
> make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my
> question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with
> broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages?
> Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can
> withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
>
>
> Best,
> Sherief
>
> _______________________________________________
> Thethinktank mailing list
> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
>
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:17:32 -0600
From: "Jonathan Morrison"
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] On Shop tools
To: "The Think Tank"
Message-ID:
<4dd29fd10803311117t2d521b35m36094166ce552a0f@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

We have a series of Park CT-3 that are on every bench for geared chains and
have people borrow a Park CT-7 from the master bench for the 1/8" and 1/2"
chains, we just bought pins in bulk and replace them as needed. Prior to
that we were thinking of doing the following:

Chain Tool Pin (and other) rental. Where each bench has a chain tool
without a pin and a sign instructing them to talk to a core volunteer about
using the tool. Which serves two functions:

1) No one uses tools that break without instruction. Since they have to get
a pin from a core volunteer, the core volunteer can ask, "have you used this
before, and can I show you how?"

2) They could "rent" the pin for a buck, and if it comes back in good
condition they get their buck back. If they bust the pin you can use their
deposit to buy a new one, however if they return it in working order they
get their buck back.

As for shop pumps, we are working towards installing shop air -- no floor
pump can withstand the abuse of a shop, especially a community bike shop,
and they say that quite clearly in all the distributor catalogs.

BTW, Park Tool will take back broken tools as part of their lifetime
guarantee.

--
Sincerely,

Jonathan Morrison
Executive Director
Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective
2312 S. West Temple
Salt Lake City, UT 84115
w: 801-328-2453
c: 801-688-0183
f: 801-466-3856
www.slcbikecollective.org

Get Addicted to Crank!
http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/

The mission of the Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling
as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone
of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Bicycle Collective provides
refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on
children and lower income households.

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Sherief wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the
> thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like.
> We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta
> Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least
> one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently
> switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the
> catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and
> even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to
> make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my
> question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with
> broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages?
> Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can
> withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
>
>
> Best,
> Sherief
>
> _______________________________________________
> Thethinktank mailing list
> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
>
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>
>
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End of Thethinktank Digest, Vol 19, Issue 34
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