Y'all this guy is just baiting you to make you feel bad and/or insecure. I don't know if he actually is a bike mechanic or not, but don't get caught up in this little "quiz" of his. He is literally only doing it to "getcha" and to make you feel like you don't know how to be a mechanic. He is rude and I do think we should block him from this list if he won't desist from this behavior as I find it highly unlikely whatever his bike project is fits the definition of a community bike project-- and yes, I am basing that evaluation largely on his attitude.

I called him out but privately and he was v. inappropriate with me in that context as well.

Chris:
Your "lesson" is smarmy and unwelcome. I think you need to work on your presentation style if you think these issues are really important to "the industry" (ps: we aren't the industry). As it stands, your delivery is elitist, presumptive, displays a gross lack of understanding of what mechanics "need" (you never did ask that) and is really at odds with the values of this mailing list and community (open source, DIY, mutual aid, mutual respect). 

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 6:09 AM <thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org> wrote:
Send Thethinktank mailing list submissions to
        thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Thethinktank digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Thethinktank Digest, Vol 149, Issue 4 (Robert Rands)
   2. Bike Life Movement (Patrick Goguen)
   3. Re: Bike Life Movement (Jesse Cooper)
   4. Re: Elevating the knowledge base, Would your programs
      benefit? (Cyclista Nicholas)
   5. Re: Do I have this wrong? (Cyclista Nicholas)
   6. Re: Bike Life Movement (Cyclista Nicholas)
   7. Re: Bike Life Movement (Drew Anderson)
   8. Re: Bike Life Movement (Ainsley Naylor)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert Rands <cheerfulharmony@yahoo.com>
To: <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 23:26:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Thethinktank Digest, Vol 149, Issue 4
Saying a chain has "stretched" is a colloquialism meaning it is worn out as that is how one measures its state of use.

~Robert
. 
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 2/5/19,  <thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org> wrote:

 Subject: Thethinktank Digest, Vol 149, Issue 4
 To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
 Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 4:04 PM

 Send Thethinktank mailing list submissions
 to
     thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
 World Wide Web, visit
     http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org

 or, via email, send a message with
 subject or body 'help' to
     thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org

 You can reach the person managing the
 list at
     thethinktank-owner@lists.bikecollectives.org

 When replying, please edit your Subject
 line so it is more specific
 than "Re: Contents of Thethinktank
 digest..."


 Today's Topics:

    1. Re: Elevating the knowledge
 base, Would your programs
       benefit? (christopher@holisticcycles.com)
    2. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (christopher@holisticcycles.com)
    3. Re: Elevating the knowledge
 base, Would your programs
       benefit? (christopher@holisticcycles.com)
    4. Free knowledge (christopher@holisticcycles.com)
    5. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Jim Bledsoe)
    6. Socratic Moment (christopher@holisticcycles.com)
    7. Both Body and bike benefit
 (christopher@holisticcycles.com)
    8. Trump and Science (christopher@holisticcycles.com)
    9. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Katie Vogel)
   10. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Godwin !)
   11. Re: Both Body and bike
 benefit (Ainsley Naylor)
   12. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Lauren Warbeck)
   13. Re: Elevating the knowledge
 base, Would your programs
       benefit? (Caleb
 Evenson)
   14. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Kevin Dwyer)
   15. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Anibal Davila)
   16. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Judith Feist)
   17. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Jeffery Getten)
   18. Re: Do I have this wrong?
 (Josh Bisker)


 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 14:16:22 -0700
 From: christopher@holisticcycles.com
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Elevating
 the knowledge base, Would your
     programs benefit?
 Message-ID:
     <20190204141622.f1111ec096c9d6bd7eddf37b01080912.116eeff094.mailapi@email03.godaddy.com>
    
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"



 So, in the question of wheel truing, I
 am wondering why you don't allow
  for rims becoming deformed. As a
 learned mechanic you know of the
 procedures Barnett has for unbending a
 rim, or you know how to replace
 a rim or even sell a customer an
 undamaged wheel to replace the
 damaged one.  Unless you promote
 that a damage wheel will be just
 as safe for the cyclist to use as one
 that is not damaged.
  As a mechanic: when you sign off that
 the work is compleated your actions say that the
  bike is up to standards and safe.A
 court of law does not recognize ( as
 safe as it can be) as a legal
 defination. On your own bike you can work
  on a bent wheel, On a customers bike,
 you take on a world of liability
 if you do not complete a repair to the
 safest standard, The action of presenting
 damaged product as safe can harm both
 you and your business,
 Your presentation implies that rims
 maintain
  perfection except in cases where spoke
 tension temporarily interferes.

  In other words, it's obvious that
 while some spokes may become loose
  through repetitive stress, since the
 web of spokes share a single load,
  others will become tighter as the rim
 deforms. Since little can be done
  in the average shop to re-perfect the
 bare rim once deformed, the
  tighter spokes must maintain some
 amount of increased tension to keep
  this now-deformed rim true.

  I'm not going to present any test that
 I've developed to "prove" this
  process, I'm actually posting this
 response because I find it kind of
  offensive that you keep posting here
 essentially as a salesperson. When
  someone posts to a mailing list to
 sell a product, to me that
  constitutes cause to block that person
 from the mailing list.

  If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
  to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
  shops hone their skillsets to a higher
 standard, I'd be the first to get
  interested. As it is, you never post
 detailed instructions, and quite
  frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
  with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Do you ever tighten a bolt
  too tightly or without enough clamping
 force because you do not
  measure torque? If a bolt broke or
 slipped would you be liable? Do
  you like feeling grind in your hubs or
 see that your cones are pitted
  in bikes with quick release levers but
 seldom see cone damaged in bolt on hubs?
 Do your daily commuter customers
 complain that there brakes are rubbing and your
  truing work only lasts for part of a
 season and not years?
 Do cyclist ever complain about a click
 in the pedal area? Are these
  the bizarrely out of scope ideas you
 speak of?      Your posts smell like bait.
 They are bait, Designed to get you to
 think. If you can not come up with an answer
 then as a group you can either come up
 with tests or 100% beliefs. The beliefs are
 dark ages showing its head in 2019. No
 one is lifted up in knowledge base or skill with belief.
 My knowledge is for sale, only because
 it has value, I also see that your community based
 bicycle organizations have value. You
 work hard and do great things, I have worked hard
 and I make great materials. Your moneys
 are tight and I am willing to greatly discount my
 work to help make your programs more
 profitable, improve quality,  reduce liability, and
 more.
 Nicholas, if you see me as having no
 value to this group, ban me!  If you think I work for
 free,
 Bite me!  I want to lift up
 organizations that are open to improving the experience of
 cyclist and their businesses. 


  I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
  particular case, you even tacked your
 message onto a completely
  unrelated thread. I mean, might be I'm
 actually talking to a spam bot.
  Ok I am a bot, you caught me
  cyclista Nicholas



  On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
  > I will ask a few questions and I
 am seeking if you have tests to prove
  > your answers.
  >
  > Does a quick release lever change
 the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
  > is not important, how do you test
 to verify your answer is important.
  > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
  >
  > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience? Nothing/
  > Something? The following answers
 are guesses, beliefs, not science or
  > engineering based: it should be
 done, it is done at the factory, it
  > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
  > have it done. So what does it do?
 how does it improve a cyclist ride
  > experience? How do you verify
 your answer?
  >
  > How do stainless steel spokes and
 cables stretch once and then
  > magically become harder and never
 stretch again? If they do not
  > stretch once, then how do they
 get longer once? How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No, how
 do you verify your answer?
  >
  > How does a chain that can stretch
 at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
  > get stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
  > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg or
 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
  > 2000 Lbs of force into a chain to
 stretch it? Without destroying their
  > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
  > Which leads to the question, How
 does one type of shift lever make a
  > chain function twice as long as
 another type. How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
  > wheel spokes get looser. Spokes
 only need to be tightened to round,
  > dish, tension, and true a wheel.
 How can finite element analysis and
  > computational fluid dynamics help
 a mechanic work 36 times more
  > efficiently?
  >
  > How can understanding the Sphere
 Stacking Equation improve the
  > hydraulic systems on a bicycle?
 (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
  > systems) and make cycling safer.
  >
  > How can a mechanic use a bench as
 a tool to reduce service time 25%
  >
  > Would it help your school, your
 students, bicycle businesses and
  > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
  > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
  > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
  > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
  >
  >
  > If any of this or all of this is
 new to you and you would like to
  > improve your training, feel free
 to reach out and start a conversation
  > telephone only. 773 -490 -0683
 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
  > in Chicago Illinois.
  >
  > PS
  > Yes I have re-invented the wheel
 three different ways, I am looking to
  > improve the cycling industry and
 I feel schools are the best way to do
  > that! I look forward to hearing
 from you.
  >
  > Sincerely
  > Christopher O, Wallace
  >
  >
 ____________________________________
  >
  > The ThinkTank mailing List
  >
  > Unsubscribe from this list here:
  > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 2
 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 14:24:53 -0700
 From: christopher@holisticcycles.com
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
     <20190204142453.f1111ec096c9d6bd7eddf37b01080912.c9f0c2d38e.mailapi@email03.godaddy.com>
    
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 May I have your best bike for free? or
 even your best tune up? Or web page work, or social media,
 or NFP wording? What are you willing to do to lift up my
 business for free so that I can lift up yours?
 For free I gave you ideas you had not
 come up with yet. The idea of testing your processes to
 prove that are the same as or different than you current
 beliefs/ practices. You as a group can reinvent the
 wheel or hold on to your beliefs.
 You can lift me up and I will lift you
 up. You can shut me down like a priests in the dark ages did
 to people of science. I have no power over your actions. I
 only have knowledge
 --------- Original Message ---------
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have this wrong?
 From: "Kevin Dwyer" <kevidwyer@gmail.com>
 Date: 2/4/19 1:32 pm
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>

   No, you have it wrong. The
 knowledge has value, even more, because it is given freely.
 That is the point of ThinkTank: sharing. If you don't want
 to share freely, this is wrong place for you and you are
 wasting our time.

   On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 1:09 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
  Tell me if I am wrong. If you work on
 a bike and make it better, that work has value. If I work on
 a process and make it better, the knowledge has no value and
 should be given away for free?

  When
  someone posts to a mailing list to
 sell a product, to me that
  constitutes cause to block that person
 from the mailing list.

  If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
  to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
  shops hone their skillsets to a higher
 standard, I'd be the first to get
  interested. As it is, you never post
 detailed instructions, and quite
  frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
  with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Your posts smell like bait.

  I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
  particular case, you even tacked your
 message onto a completely
  unrelated thread. I mean, might be I'm
 actually talking to a spam bot.

  cyclista Nicholas



  On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
  > I will ask a few questions and I
 am seeking if you have tests to prove
  > your answers.
  >
  > Does a quick release lever change
 the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
  > is not important, how do you test
 to verify your answer is important.
  > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
  >
  > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience? Nothing/
  > Something? The following answers
 are guesses, beliefs, not science or
  > engineering based: it should be
 done, it is done at the factory, it
  > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
  > have it done. So what does it do?
 how does it improve a cyclist ride
  > experience? How do you verify
 your answer?
  >
  > How do stainless steel spokes and
 cables stretch once and then
  > magically become harder and never
 stretch again? If they do not
  > stretch once, then how do they
 get longer once? How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No, how
 do you verify your answer?
  >
  > How does a chain that can stretch
 at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
  > get stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
  > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg or
 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
  > 2000 Lbs of force into a chain to
 stretch it? Without destroying their
  > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
  > Which leads to the question, How
 does one type of shift lever make a
  > chain function twice as long as
 another type. How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
  > wheel spokes get looser. Spokes
 only need to be tightened to round,
  > dish, tension, and true a wheel.
 How can finite element analysis and
  > computational fluid dynamics help
 a mechanic work 36 times more
  > efficiently?
  >
  > How can understanding the Sphere
 Stacking Equation improve the
  > hydraulic systems on a bicycle?
 (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
  > systems) and make cycling safer.
  >
  > How can a mechanic use a bench as
 a tool to reduce service time 25%
  >
  > Would it help your school, your
 students, bicycle businesses and
  > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
  > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
  > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
  > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
  >
  >
  > If any of this or all of this is
 new to you and you would like to
  > improve your training, feel free
 to reach out and start a conversation
  > telephone only. 773 -490 -0683
 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
  > in Chicago Illinois.
  >
  > PS
  > Yes I have re-invented the wheel
 three different ways, I am looking to
  > improve the cycling industry and
 I feel schools are the best way to do
  > that! I look forward to hearing
 from you.
  >
  > Sincerely
  > Christopher O, Wallace
  >
  >
 ____________________________________
  >
  > The ThinkTank mailing List
  >
  > Unsubscribe from this list here:
  > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  


 --
     Kevin Dwyer
 Salt Lake City, UT
 801.647.0797



 IMPORTANT:  This communication is
 intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
 which it is addressed.  It may contain information that
 is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or
 other applicable privilege.  If you are not the
 intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for
 delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you
 are hereby notified that the disclosure of this
 communication is strictly prohibited.  If you have
 received this communication in error, please notify me
 immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the
 original message to me at the above address via email. 
 Thank you.




 ____________________________________
 The ThinkTank mailing List Unsubscribe from this list here:
 http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 3
 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 14:40:51 -0700
 From: christopher@holisticcycles.com
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Elevating
 the knowledge base, Would your
     programs benefit?
 Message-ID:
     <20190204144051.f1111ec096c9d6bd7eddf37b01080912.0871adb936.mailapi@email03.godaddy.com>
    
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 It is funny you mention my friend
 Sheldon, I was talking with him on the phone about some
 of these subjects 6 days before he
 died. He was sick for a long time, but he did not know he
 was
 going to die that soon. He loved his
 opinions on all types of bike subjects, and was surprized
 by the science and six sigma continuous
 improvement process that was happening in bike
 education. 

 --------- Original Message ---------
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Elevating the knowledge base,
 Would your programs benefit?
 From: "Jean-Fran&ccedil;ois Caron"
 <jfcaron3@gmail.com>
 Date: 2/4/19 7:37 am
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>

 It reminded me of ShelBroCo April
 Fool's pages. 
 e.g.:
 https://www.sheldonbrown.com/power-wheel.html
  
 Jean-Fran&ccedil;ois

   On Feb 4, 2019, at 06:13 ,
 Dennis Wollersheim <dewoller@gmail.com>
 wrote:

   Thanks for that Nicholas. 
 Christopher's original post disturbed me, but as I am a
 relative newbie, I did not want to call him out.  You
 did the right thing, in a very respectful fashion.
  
 Warmly
 Dennis


   On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 7:32 PM
 Cyclista Nicholas <cyclista@inventati.org>
 wrote:
 So, in the question of wheel truing, I
 am wondering why you don't allow
  for rims becoming deformed. Your
 presentation implies that rims maintain
  perfection except in cases where spoke
 tension temporarily interferes.

  In other words, it's obvious that
 while some spokes may become loose
  through repetitive stress, since the
 web of spokes share a single load,
  others will become tighter as the rim
 deforms. Since little can be done
  in the average shop to re-perfect the
 bare rim once deformed, the
  tighter spokes must maintain some
 amount of increased tension to keep
  this now-deformed rim true.

  I'm not going to present any test that
 I've developed to "prove" this
  process, I'm actually posting this
 response because I find it kind of
  offensive that you keep posting here
 essentially as a salesperson. When
  someone posts to a mailing list to
 sell a product, to me that
  constitutes cause to block that person
 from the mailing list.

  If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
  to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
  shops hone their skillsets to a higher
 standard, I'd be the first to get
  interested. As it is, you never post
 detailed instructions, and quite
  frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
  with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Your posts smell like bait.

  I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
  particular case, you even tacked your
 message onto a completely
  unrelated thread. I mean, might be I'm
 actually talking to a spam bot.

  cyclista Nicholas



  On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
  > I will ask a few questions and I
 am seeking if you have tests to prove
  > your answers.
  >
  > Does a quick release lever change
 the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
  > is not important, how do you test
 to verify your answer is important.
  > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
  >
  > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience?  Nothing/
  > Something? The following answers
 are guesses, beliefs, not science or
  > engineering based: it should be
 done, it is done at the factory, it
  > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
  > have it done. So what does it do?
 how does it improve a cyclist ride
  > experience? How do you verify
 your answer?
  >
  > How do stainless steel spokes and
 cables stretch once and then
  > magically become harder and never
 stretch again? If they do not
  > stretch once, then how do they
 get longer once? How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No, how
 do you verify your answer?
  >
  > How does a chain that can stretch
 at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
  > get stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
  > lbs cyclist. How can a  45
 Kg or 100 pound cyclist  put  900 Kg or
  > 2000 Lbs of force into a chain to
 stretch it? Without destroying their
  > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
  > Which leads to the question, How
 does one type of shift lever make a
  > chain function twice as long as
 another type. How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
  > wheel spokes get looser. Spokes
 only need to be tightened to round,
  > dish, tension, and true a wheel.
 How can finite element analysis and
  > computational fluid dynamics help
 a mechanic work 36 times more
  > efficiently?
  >
  > How can understanding the Sphere
 Stacking Equation improve the
  > hydraulic systems on a bicycle?
 (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
  > systems) and make cycling safer.
  >
  > How can a mechanic use a bench as
 a tool to reduce service time 25%
  >
  > Would it help your school, your
 students, bicycle businesses and
  > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
  > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
  > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
  > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
  >
  >
  > If any of this or all of this is
 new to you and you would like to
  > improve your training, feel free
 to reach out and start a conversation
  > telephone only. 773 -490 -0683
 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
  > in Chicago Illinois.
  >
  > PS
  > Yes I have re-invented the wheel
 three different ways, I am looking to
  > improve the cycling industry and
 I feel schools are the best way to do
  > that! I look forward to hearing
 from you.
  >
  > Sincerely
  > Christopher O, Wallace
  >
  >
 ____________________________________
  >
  > The ThinkTank mailing List
  >
  > Unsubscribe from this list here:
  > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  

  
 --
  --
 -------------------------------------------
 Dennis Wollersheim
 -------------------------------------------
 ____________________________________

 The ThinkTank mailing List

 Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org




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 Message: 4
 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 16:17:00 -0700
 From: christopher@holisticcycles.com
 To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
 Subject: [TheThinkTank] Free knowledge
 Message-ID:
     <20190204161700.f1111ec096c9d6bd7eddf37b01080912.cfeaa07637.mailapi@email03.godaddy.com>
    
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 All the points you raise have answers
 in mechanical engineering and bicycle mechanics. 
 To pick one: the compression of a
 closed quick release does change the adjustment of hub
 bearings, easily demonstrated. Various techniques exist to
 correct the hub bearings adjustment for this. Barnett
 publishes a technique, a bit fussy, but it works. The
 technique he demonstrated to me was flawed.  I show him
 the flaw in logic and he dismissed it. He put pressure on
 the end of an axle on one side of a hub and pressure on the
 lock nut on the other side of the hub. There is never any
 pressure on the end of a skewered axle. The clamping force
 is only on the lock nuts against the dropout surfaces. His
 test had two variables instead of one. Does the axle
 compress under quick release loads or do the threads flex.
 One test will not answer two variables. Two test are needed
 to test two variables. Yet only one test is valid. Since a
 QR can never press against the end of an axle and still have
 clamping force on a  lock nut against the dropout,
 pressing against the end of the axle test is inva
  lid.  John' s testing wanted to
 find a specific amount that a hub could be adjusted from the
 standard bench adjustment to the on the bike correction for
 quick release forces. He came to realize that the variables
 in axle materials and quick release materials and
 construction were to great for a unified answer. I solved
 for his issues and his beliefs dismissed my solution. 
 I demonstrated a perfect adjustment for the added load of a
 quick release in less than 30 seconds. Once I did six
 adjustment in 10 seconds.  My special tools cost 
 $6 from a frame builder.    Special tools do
 exist, but unnecessary. Most mechanics learn in school or
 from someone like me, People are asking me for free
 instruction, is your knowledge free? if not why are you
 advertising here also? and most develop their preferred
 method.

 Chains don't stretch. At 2000 pound of
 force chains do stretch, True: on a bike they only wear.
 Cables do. At 550 pounds of force derailleur cables stretch,
 but the plastic shift lever mount will fail at 200 pounds of
 force, at 800 pounds of force brake cables stretch. sadly a
 rim side wall brake surface will start to fail at 160 pounds
 of force. Numbers don't lie and are verifiable. (Very
 different structures.)

 Spokes remain elastic. Spoke elbows
 deform from the original 90 degrees to the best pull angle,
 effectively making spokes longer once. On aluminum hubs the
 elbow indents the hub flange hole making the spoke
 effectively longer once. Neither of these changes the
 elastic properties of the spoke, but they do make the spoke
 effectively longer once and drop the tension of the wheel,
 allowing for greater tension ranges in spokes, creating
 early fatigue and spoke failure. Also reducing the
 efficiency of the wheel to accelerate as looser spokes need
 to be tensioned by the force from the chain before they move
 the cyclist forward,  and the wheel has more side to
 side movement with looser spokes making control and braking
 less than optimal.

 May I suggest that these complete
 thoughts are not currently put together cohesively by
 engineering books which I have intensely studied, or bicycle
 best practices knowledge bases. or by you.

 May I suggest familiarizing yourself
 with current best practice (rather than the noise that gets
 written on the web).

 I suggest Sharp for the basic
 mechanical engineering My experiments with the wheel in both
 practice and with finite element analysis and 
 computational fluid dynamic program ANAYS. have shown
 insight intto the wheel and how to do wheel work 20 faster
 for better result.   and Barnett for current mechanic
 best practice. As a BBI certified master tech, I can point
 out many flaws to Barnett's best practices. From making
 mechanics less profitable with slow procedures that are not
 valid in their testing. To just plain bad science
 understanding.  

 Get back to me if you have questions
 after having thoroughly understood those.
  I am back, Now are you ready to learn?
 or do you have any ideas of your own that are brilliant. I
 am all ears

   On Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 1:24 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 Hi David,
 What are you trying to build? I am not
 trying to builds I am trying to understand what has been
 built to improve efficiency of mechanics by up to 40 times
 current speed. Helping mechanics earn a living wage.
 Not a lot of CFD in the bike world. Do
 you know this as fact or a belief that you hold strongly?
 And after over a hundred years of
 engineering, not a lot of need for FEA. In the 1880's to
 1890's there was amazing engineering, some material sciences
 in the 1980's improved friction, ending of the cold war
 brought advanced materials in the 80's and 90's  Sadly
 as a student of the root causes of problems I have found the
 engineering in most bicycle systems is lost and strong held
 beliefs are the replacement. 

 A couple of examples:
 A chain has a pull strength of 2000
 pounds before it stretches, If you wish to stretch a chain
 put a car on your back and stand on one pedal. What is the
 root of chain lengthening, What is the relationship between
 side to side flex of a chain and shifting quality? Do all
 new chains that measure the same length have the same side
 flex? Is there a relationship between chain length and
 flex.
 A spoke is made of a magical metal that
 stretches once and then becomes a harder metal and never
 stretches again. A spoke can be tightened until it will pull
 the nipple through the rim because the rim is not as strong
 as pull force that can be applied by the spoke. So how do
 rims stretch spokes to become looser in tension during the
 first 30 days of riding?
 Derailleur cables are anchored by a
 threaded fastener on one end and on the other end sits in a
 plastic seat in the shift lever. The derailleur cable has a
 pull strength of 500 pounds of pull before it will stretch,
 the plastic seat will fail before the cable will. How do
 cables stretch one time then never stretch again when pulled
 by a weaker plastic component?

 Does a quick release lever change the
 adjustment of a hub? How do you isolate and test your
 theory? How do you adjust the hub precisely for a
 combination of a specific axle (mild steel, hardened steel,
 Titanium, Aluminum, ) and a specific Quick Release material
 (Steel, Aluminum, Titanium, with or with out plastic
 components )? How do you precisely adjust a hub for QR
 forces in less than 20 seconds? If engineering has been
 done, then it should be easy to answer all these question by
 looking in books, or on line, or from schools.

 Which acts like a fluid on the bicycle?
 hydraulic brake fluid? a wheel rim? or a chain?  A
 little hint, Brake fluid when contain in a system acts as a
 solid to transfer forces. Brake fluid outside of a system
 acts like a fluid.

 If you would like to communicate on how
 CFD with FEA can change the world of cycling I would love to
 talk, If you believe engineers created cables that stretch
 once, spokes that stretch once, chains that stretch with
 human load of less than 2000 pounds, well I will not change
 your strong belief system.


 Christopher Wallace
 773 490 0683



  Good morning, 
 Sorry, no. I once did some programming
 for FEA and CNC but ages ago, and my IT friends wrangle
 server farms, databases, and state IT departments.

 Take a look at Monster.


 Also post a query on one of the CMU
 boards or Pitt Craigslist.

 What are you trying to build?
 Not a lot of CFD in the bike world.
 And after over a hundred years of
 engineering, not a lot of need for FEA.



 David

   On Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 11:14 AM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 Do you know anyone that is fluent in
 Ansys? CFD FEA? or know where I could look for a person in
 the field?

 Christopher Wallace
 Holistic Cycles
 773 490 0683
 Oak Park, IL. 60304



 -------- Original Message --------
  Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] CiviCRM
  From: David Zundel <davidzundel@gmail.com>
  Date: Sat, October 15, 2016 6:38 pm
  To: Jonathan Morrison <jonathan@bicyclecollective.org>,
 The Think Tank
  <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>

  CiviCRM goes on a server (vps
 recommended and affordable)
  then accessed by a web page, fairly
 easy.
 Or you buy Civi hosting, but that
 defeats some of the purpose of using Civi.
 Civi has considerable power and
 ability, can connect with ERP, etc
 but not for IT novice.
 Easy to install, configure, and
 maintain if you have experience and comfort with Linux
 servers, if not, not.

 You can certainly hire the Linux talent
 in SLC, but dependence on outside IT service has
 inconveniences.

 Email me directly if you want to get
 into details on Civi.

 David
 http://openwest.us


   On Sat, Oct 15, 2016, 8:20 PM
 Jonathan Morrison <jonathan@bicyclecollective.org>
 wrote:
 What staff resources does it require?

   On Sat, Oct 15, 2016, 7:19 PM
 jack <jack@bikewalkwichita.org>
 wrote:
 We use Salesforce / Wordpress /
 Mailchimp and have been pleased with what all we can do, for
 free.


  -------- Original message --------
 From: David Zundel
 Date:10/15/2016 7:33 PM (GMT-06:00)
 To: The Think Tank
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] CiviCRM

 CiviCRM recommended 
 David

   On Sat, Oct 15, 2016, 6:13 PM
 Jonathan Morrison <jonathan@bicyclecollective.org>
 wrote:
 Has anyone been using (https://civicrm.org/) or would they recommend a
 different software package?

 -Jonathan


 ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List
  <a href="http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe
 from this list</a>


 ____________________________________

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 Message: 5
 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 15:57:21 -0800
 From: Jim Bledsoe <gamesbledsoe@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
    
 <CABSiP0NgM8vHT6Zy+7OE4hQS+c+s9Djywh97353FHFn22zPOXw@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 What we here at the thinktank are, is a
 bunch of open source bicycle
 advocates.
 When one posts a long drawn out list of
 questions with a pay me now gotcha
 at the end it will tend to raise
 hackles
   "What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience?"  were you
 meaning "pacing"   or more 
 succinctly, maintaining a high cadence here?



 On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:39 PM <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:

 > Tell me if I am wrong. If you work
 on a bike and make it better, that work
 > has value. If I work on a process
 and make it better, the knowledge has no
 > value and should be given away for
 free?
 >
 >
 > When
 > someone posts to a mailing list to
 sell a product, to me that
 > constitutes cause to block that
 person from the mailing list.
 >
 > If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
 > to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
 > shops hone their skillsets to a
 higher standard, I'd be the first to get
 > interested. As it is, you never
 post detailed instructions, and quite
 > frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
 > with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Your posts smell like bait.
 >
 > I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
 > particular case, you even tacked
 your message onto a completely
 > unrelated thread. I mean, might be
 I'm actually talking to a spam bot.
 >
 > cyclista Nicholas
 >
 >
 >
 > On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
 > > I will ask a few questions
 and I am seeking if you have tests to prove
 > > your answers.
 > >
 > > Does a quick release lever
 change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
 > > is not important, how do you
 test to verify your answer is important.
 > > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 > >
 > > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience? Nothing/
 > > Something? The following
 answers are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 > > engineering based: it should
 be done, it is done at the factory, it
 > > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
 > > have it done. So what does it
 do? how does it improve a cyclist ride
 > > experience? How do you verify
 your answer?
 > >
 > > How do stainless steel spokes
 and cables stretch once and then
 > > magically become harder and
 never stretch again? If they do not
 > > stretch once, then how do
 they get longer once? How do you verify your
 > > answer?
 > >
 > > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No,
 how do you verify your answer?
 > >
 > > How does a chain that can
 stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
 > > get stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
 > > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg
 or 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
 > > 2000 Lbs of force into a
 chain to stretch it? Without destroying their
 > > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
 > > Which leads to the question,
 How does one type of shift lever make a
 > > chain function twice as long
 as another type. How do you verify your
 > > answer?
 > >
 > > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
 > > wheel spokes get looser.
 Spokes only need to be tightened to round,
 > > dish, tension, and true a
 wheel. How can finite element analysis and
 > > computational fluid dynamics
 help a mechanic work 36 times more
 > > efficiently?
 > >
 > > How can understanding the
 Sphere Stacking Equation improve the
 > > hydraulic systems on a
 bicycle? (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
 > > systems) and make cycling
 safer.
 > >
 > > How can a mechanic use a
 bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
 > >
 > > Would it help your school,
 your students, bicycle businesses and
 > > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
 > > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 > > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
 > > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
 > >
 > >
 > > If any of this or all of this
 is new to you and you would like to
 > > improve your training, feel
 free to reach out and start a conversation
 > > telephone only. 773 -490
 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
 > > in Chicago Illinois.
 > >
 > > PS
 > > Yes I have re-invented the
 wheel three different ways, I am looking to
 > > improve the cycling industry
 and I feel schools are the best way to do
 > > that! I look forward to
 hearing from you.
 > >
 > > Sincerely
 > > Christopher O, Wallace
 > >
 > >
 ____________________________________
 > >
 > > The ThinkTank mailing List
 > >
 > > Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 > >
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 Message: 6
 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 17:13:35 -0700
 From: christopher@holisticcycles.com
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: [TheThinkTank] Socratic
 Moment
 Message-ID:
     <20190204171335.f1111ec096c9d6bd7eddf37b01080912.5af1a39169.mailapi@email03.godaddy.com>
    
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 I did mean facing the Bottom Bracket
 shell or the Stem, Head Tube, and Fork Crown race.
 Does it make you faster? or Lighter?
 Tighter tolerances?  Wear things less? Make adjustments
 better? Make adjustments stay longer? Make things last
 longer? Make things parallel? Make things lock more
 securely?
 Why do professional racers do it, but
 year round cyclist don't? What is the benefit of having it
 done? 

 Just because you have a tool, or know
 of a procedure, do you know why it is a benefit to the
 cyclist? Any procedure, part or accessory to a bike,
 Socratic Moment: WHY is service or product of value to the
 customer?

 If you do not know, then it is very
 hard to sell the service or the product. Many tools and
 serviced go unused because of our abilities to communicate
 their value to the customer.

 --------- Original Message ---------
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have this wrong?
 From: "Jim Bledsoe" <gamesbledsoe@gmail.com>
 Date: 2/4/19 4:57 pm
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>

  What we here at the thinktank are, is
 a bunch of open source bicycle advocates.
 When one posts a long drawn out list of
 questions with a pay me now gotcha at the end it will tend
 to raise hackles
   "What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience?"  were you meaning
 "pacing"   or more  succinctly, maintaining a high
 cadence here?
   


   On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:39 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
  Tell me if I am wrong. If you work on
 a bike and make it better, that work has value. If I work on
 a process and make it better, the knowledge has no value and
 should be given away for free?

  When
  someone posts to a mailing list to
 sell a product, to me that
  constitutes cause to block that person
 from the mailing list.

  If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
  to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
  shops hone their skillsets to a higher
 standard, I'd be the first to get
  interested. As it is, you never post
 detailed instructions, and quite
  frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
  with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Your posts smell like bait.

  I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
  particular case, you even tacked your
 message onto a completely
  unrelated thread. I mean, might be I'm
 actually talking to a spam bot.

  cyclista Nicholas



  On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
  > I will ask a few questions and I
 am seeking if you have tests to prove
  > your answers.
  >
  > Does a quick release lever change
 the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
  > is not important, how do you test
 to verify your answer is important.
  > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
  >
  > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience? Nothing/
  > Something? The following answers
 are guesses, beliefs, not science or
  > engineering based: it should be
 done, it is done at the factory, it
  > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
  > have it done. So what does it do?
 how does it improve a cyclist ride
  > experience? How do you verify
 your answer?
  >
  > How do stainless steel spokes and
 cables stretch once and then
  > magically become harder and never
 stretch again? If they do not
  > stretch once, then how do they
 get longer once? How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No, how
 do you verify your answer?
  >
  > How does a chain that can stretch
 at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
  > get stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
  > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg or
 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
  > 2000 Lbs of force into a chain to
 stretch it? Without destroying their
  > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
  > Which leads to the question, How
 does one type of shift lever make a
  > chain function twice as long as
 another type. How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
  > wheel spokes get looser. Spokes
 only need to be tightened to round,
  > dish, tension, and true a wheel.
 How can finite element analysis and
  > computational fluid dynamics help
 a mechanic work 36 times more
  > efficiently?
  >
  > How can understanding the Sphere
 Stacking Equation improve the
  > hydraulic systems on a bicycle?
 (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
  > systems) and make cycling safer.
  >
  > How can a mechanic use a bench as
 a tool to reduce service time 25%
  >
  > Would it help your school, your
 students, bicycle businesses and
  > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
  > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
  > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
  > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
  >
  >
  > If any of this or all of this is
 new to you and you would like to
  > improve your training, feel free
 to reach out and start a conversation
  > telephone only. 773 -490 -0683
 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
  > in Chicago Illinois.
  >
  > PS
  > Yes I have re-invented the wheel
 three different ways, I am looking to
  > improve the cycling industry and
 I feel schools are the best way to do
  > that! I look forward to hearing
 from you.
  >
  > Sincerely
  > Christopher O, Wallace
  >
  >
 ____________________________________
  >
  > The ThinkTank mailing List
  >
  > Unsubscribe from this list here:
  > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  
 ____________________________________
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 7
 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 17:24:27 -0700
 From: christopher@holisticcycles.com
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: [TheThinkTank] Both Body and
 bike benefit
 Message-ID:
     <20190204172427.f1111ec096c9d6bd7eddf37b01080912.6d2a7ff7a2.mailapi@email03.godaddy.com>
    
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Pacing in a group is a nice community
 experience. Maintaining a high Cadence is healthy for your
 body and your bike. Higher pedal spin for the same velocity
 increases heart rate, increasing blood flow and lubrication
 to the joints, reduces the pressure in the leg joint
 surfaces and the connective tissue, reducing wear on the
 disks and allowing connective tissue to grow in strength at
 a similar rate to the muscle tissue. The high cadence
 reduces the load in the drive train, and places the load in
 bigger cogs transferring the load across a greater surface
 area and across more teeth reducing wear.
 Benefiting both your body health and
 your wallet in reduced repair cost.

 --------- Original Message ---------
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have this wrong?
 From: "Jim Bledsoe" <gamesbledsoe@gmail.com>
 Date: 2/4/19 4:57 pm
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>

  What we here at the thinktank are, is
 a bunch of open source bicycle advocates.
 When one posts a long drawn out list of
 questions with a pay me now gotcha at the end it will tend
 to raise hackles
   "What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience?"  were you meaning
 "pacing"   or more  succinctly, maintaining a high
 cadence here?
   


   On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:39 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
  Tell me if I am wrong. If you work on
 a bike and make it better, that work has value. If I work on
 a process and make it better, the knowledge has no value and
 should be given away for free?

  When
  someone posts to a mailing list to
 sell a product, to me that
  constitutes cause to block that person
 from the mailing list.

  If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
  to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
  shops hone their skillsets to a higher
 standard, I'd be the first to get
  interested. As it is, you never post
 detailed instructions, and quite
  frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
  with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Your posts smell like bait.

  I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
  particular case, you even tacked your
 message onto a completely
  unrelated thread. I mean, might be I'm
 actually talking to a spam bot.

  cyclista Nicholas



  On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
  > I will ask a few questions and I
 am seeking if you have tests to prove
  > your answers.
  >
  > Does a quick release lever change
 the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
  > is not important, how do you test
 to verify your answer is important.
  > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
  >
  > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience? Nothing/
  > Something? The following answers
 are guesses, beliefs, not science or
  > engineering based: it should be
 done, it is done at the factory, it
  > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
  > have it done. So what does it do?
 how does it improve a cyclist ride
  > experience? How do you verify
 your answer?
  >
  > How do stainless steel spokes and
 cables stretch once and then
  > magically become harder and never
 stretch again? If they do not
  > stretch once, then how do they
 get longer once? How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No, how
 do you verify your answer?
  >
  > How does a chain that can stretch
 at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
  > get stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
  > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg or
 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
  > 2000 Lbs of force into a chain to
 stretch it? Without destroying their
  > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
  > Which leads to the question, How
 does one type of shift lever make a
  > chain function twice as long as
 another type. How do you verify your
  > answer?
  >
  > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
  > wheel spokes get looser. Spokes
 only need to be tightened to round,
  > dish, tension, and true a wheel.
 How can finite element analysis and
  > computational fluid dynamics help
 a mechanic work 36 times more
  > efficiently?
  >
  > How can understanding the Sphere
 Stacking Equation improve the
  > hydraulic systems on a bicycle?
 (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
  > systems) and make cycling safer.
  >
  > How can a mechanic use a bench as
 a tool to reduce service time 25%
  >
  > Would it help your school, your
 students, bicycle businesses and
  > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
  > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
  > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
  > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
  >
  >
  > If any of this or all of this is
 new to you and you would like to
  > improve your training, feel free
 to reach out and start a conversation
  > telephone only. 773 -490 -0683
 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
  > in Chicago Illinois.
  >
  > PS
  > Yes I have re-invented the wheel
 three different ways, I am looking to
  > improve the cycling industry and
 I feel schools are the best way to do
  > that! I look forward to hearing
 from you.
  >
  > Sincerely
  > Christopher O, Wallace
  >
  >
 ____________________________________
  >
  > The ThinkTank mailing List
  >
  > Unsubscribe from this list here:
  > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  ____________________________________

  The ThinkTank mailing List

  Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
  
 ____________________________________
 The ThinkTank mailing List Unsubscribe from this list here:
 http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 8
 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 19:38:59 -0700
 From: christopher@holisticcycles.com
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: [TheThinkTank] Trump and
 Science
 Message-ID:
     <20190204193859.f1111ec096c9d6bd7eddf37b01080912.4964d2f6c7.mailapi@email03.godaddy.com>
    
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 It has been brought to my attention
 that many of you do not like Trumps stance on science. Where
 his opinion is more valid than Testable, peer reviewed,
 repeatable science
 At the same time when opinions about
 the bicycle are faced with testable, peer reviewed,
 repeatable science, the science is questioned by members of
 this list.

 Your opinion matters, it is called a
 hypothesis.  Science proves or disproves hypothesis.
 Once a hypothesis is turned into a test and proved or
 disproved,  then those with descending opinions
 peer review the results, to confirm or
 deny the results.  If they are not happy they should
 test their own hypothesis's and have them peer
 reviewed.  An opinion on the matter is called a guess.

 I am told your guesses, your opinions,
 are to be honored and respected more than science based
 testing. For that I apologize.

 Raise a glass to you.

 Christopher O Wallace
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 9
 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 22:46:30 -0500
 From: Katie Vogel <katharine.d.vogel@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
     <CADGh=y4FqwcLrASXm2xSPicxgEu1_M87tLFzWM3dz1Vbf6yWhA@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Is this person banned yet? Asking for a
 friend.

 On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 22:24 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:

 > May I have your best bike for
 free? or even your best tune up? Or web page
 > work, or social media, or NFP
 wording? What are you willing to do to lift
 > up my business for free so that I
 can lift up yours?
 > For free I gave you ideas you had
 not come up with yet. The idea of
 > testing your processes to prove
 that are the same as or different than you
 > current beliefs/ practices. You as
 a group can reinvent the
 > wheel or hold on to your beliefs.
 > You can lift me up and I will lift
 you up. You can shut me down like a
 > priests in the dark ages did to
 people of science. I have no power over
 > your actions. I only have
 knowledge
 >
 > --------- Original Message
 ---------
 > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I
 have this wrong?
 > From: "Kevin Dwyer" <kevidwyer@gmail.com>
 > Date: 2/4/19 1:32 pm
 > To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 >
 > No, you have it wrong. The
 knowledge has value, even more, because it is
 > given freely. That is the point of
 ThinkTank: sharing. If you don't want to
 > share freely, this is wrong place
 for you and you are wasting our time.
 >
 > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 1:09 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >> Tell me if I am wrong. If you
 work on a bike and make it better, that
 >> work has value. If I work on a
 process and make it better, the knowledge
 >> has no value and should be
 given away for free?
 >>
 >>
 >> When
 >> someone posts to a mailing
 list to sell a product, to me that
 >> constitutes cause to block
 that person from the mailing list.
 >>
 >> If you want to freely share
 here tutorials and techniques for everyone
 >> to review and learn from, in
 the interest of helping community bike
 >> shops hone their skillsets to
 a higher standard, I'd be the first to get
 >> interested. As it is, you
 never post detailed instructions, and quite
 >> frankly a lot of the processes
 you allude to are bizarrely out of scope
 >> with what most of us do on a
 daily basis. Your posts smell like bait.
 >>
 >> I'm personally requesting that
 you reconsider posting here. In this
 >> particular case, you even
 tacked your message onto a completely
 >> unrelated thread. I mean,
 might be I'm actually talking to a spam bot.
 >>
 >> cyclista Nicholas
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
 >> > I will ask a few
 questions and I am seeking if you have tests to prove
 >> > your answers.
 >> >
 >> > Does a quick release
 lever change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
 >> > is not important, how do
 you test to verify your answer is important.
 >> > How can this test be used
 to reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 >> >
 >> > What does facing do for
 the customers ride experience? Nothing/
 >> > Something? The following
 answers are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 >> > engineering based: it
 should be done, it is done at the factory, it
 >> > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
 >> > have it done. So what
 does it do? how does it improve a cyclist ride
 >> > experience? How do you
 verify your answer?
 >> >
 >> > How do stainless steel
 spokes and cables stretch once and then
 >> > magically become harder
 and never stretch again? If they do not
 >> > stretch once, then how do
 they get longer once? How do you verify your
 >> > answer?
 >> >
 >> > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or
 No, how do you verify your answer?
 >> >
 >> > How does a chain that can
 stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
 >> > get stretched on a bike
 frame that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
 >> > lbs cyclist. How can a 45
 Kg or 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
 >> > 2000 Lbs of force into a
 chain to stretch it? Without destroying their
 >> > knees? How do you verify
 your answer?
 >> > Which leads to the
 question, How does one type of shift lever make a
 >> > chain function twice as
 long as another type. How do you verify your
 >> > answer?
 >> >
 >> > Why do mechanics tighten
 and loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
 >> > wheel spokes get looser.
 Spokes only need to be tightened to round,
 >> > dish, tension, and true a
 wheel. How can finite element analysis and
 >> > computational fluid
 dynamics help a mechanic work 36 times more
 >> > efficiently?
 >> >
 >> > How can understanding the
 Sphere Stacking Equation improve the
 >> > hydraulic systems on a
 bicycle? (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
 >> > systems) and make cycling
 safer.
 >> >
 >> > How can a mechanic use a
 bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
 >> >
 >> > Would it help your
 school, your students, bicycle businesses and
 >> > cyclist; if your
 curriculum included verifiable testing processes,
 >> > efficient practices to
 reduce procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 >> > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
 >> > their cycling experience
 to improve sales?
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > If any of this or all of
 this is new to you and you would like to
 >> > improve your training,
 feel free to reach out and start a conversation
 >> > telephone only. 773 -490
 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
 >> > in Chicago Illinois.
 >> >
 >> > PS
 >> > Yes I have re-invented
 the wheel three different ways, I am looking to
 >> > improve the cycling
 industry and I feel schools are the best way to do
 >> > that! I look forward to
 hearing from you.
 >> >
 >> > Sincerely
 >> > Christopher O, Wallace
 >> >
 >> >
 ____________________________________
 >> >
 >> > The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >> >
 >> > Unsubscribe from this
 list here:
 >> >
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >
 >
 > --
 > Kevin Dwyer
 > Salt Lake City, UT
 > 801.647.0797
 >
 >
 >
 > IMPORTANT:  This
 communication is intended solely for the use of the
 > individual or entity to which it
 is addressed.  It may contain information
 > that is confidential and/or
 protected by the attorney-client or other
 > applicable privilege.  If you
 are not the intended recipient, or if you are
 > not responsible for delivering
 this communication to the intended
 > recipient, you are hereby notified
 that the disclosure of this
 > communication is strictly
 prohibited.  If you have received this
 > communication in error, please
 notify me immediately by telephone at (801)
 > 647-0797, and return the original
 message to me at the above address via
 > email.  Thank you.
 >
 ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 10
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 05:07:33 +0000
 From: Godwin ! <goodgodwin@hotmail.com>
 To: Katie Vogel <katharine.d.vogel@gmail.com>,
 The Think Tank
     <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
     <BN7PR03MB4433B0C301ACE6FA191C5DBAD06E0@BN7PR03MB4433.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
    
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="us-ascii"

 Yes. I sent him an email asking him to
 stop and apologize, he replied with more confusing insults
 and continued to post gibberish to the TT so I removed and
 blocked him.

 godwin




 ________________________________
 From: Thethinktank <thethinktank-bounces@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 on behalf of Katie Vogel <katharine.d.vogel@gmail.com>
 Sent: February 4, 2019 7:46 PM
 To: The Think Tank
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?

 Is this person banned yet? Asking for a
 friend.

 On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 22:24 <christopher@holisticcycles.com<mailto:christopher@holisticcycles.com>>
 wrote:
 May I have your best bike for free? or
 even your best tune up? Or web page work, or social media,
 or NFP wording? What are you willing to do to lift up my
 business for free so that I can lift up yours?
 For free I gave you ideas you had not
 come up with yet. The idea of testing your processes to
 prove that are the same as or different than you current
 beliefs/ practices. You as a group can reinvent the
 wheel or hold on to your beliefs.
 You can lift me up and I will lift you
 up. You can shut me down like a priests in the dark ages did
 to people of science. I have no power over your actions. I
 only have knowledge
 --------- Original Message ---------
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 From: "Kevin Dwyer" <kevidwyer@gmail.com<mailto:kevidwyer@gmail.com>>
 Date: 2/4/19 1:32 pm
 To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org<mailto:thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>>

 No, you have it wrong. The knowledge
 has value, even more, because it is given freely. That is
 the point of ThinkTank: sharing. If you don't want to share
 freely, this is wrong place for you and you are wasting our
 time.

 On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 1:09 PM <christopher@holisticcycles.com<mailto:christopher@holisticcycles.com>>
 wrote:
 Tell me if I am wrong. If you work on a
 bike and make it better, that work has value. If I work on a
 process and make it better, the knowledge has no value and
 should be given away for free?

 When
 someone posts to a mailing list to sell
 a product, to me that
 constitutes cause to block that person
 from the mailing list.

 If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
 to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
 shops hone their skillsets to a higher
 standard, I'd be the first to get
 interested. As it is, you never post
 detailed instructions, and quite
 frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
 with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Your posts smell like bait.

 I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
 particular case, you even tacked your
 message onto a completely
 unrelated thread. I mean, might be I'm
 actually talking to a spam bot.

 cyclista Nicholas



 On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com<mailto:christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 > I will ask a few questions and I
 am seeking if you have tests to prove
 > your answers.
 >
 > Does a quick release lever change
 the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
 > is not important, how do you test
 to verify your answer is important.
 > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 >
 > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience? Nothing/
 > Something? The following answers
 are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 > engineering based: it should be
 done, it is done at the factory, it
 > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
 > have it done. So what does it do?
 how does it improve a cyclist ride
 > experience? How do you verify your
 answer?
 >
 > How do stainless steel spokes and
 cables stretch once and then
 > magically become harder and never
 stretch again? If they do not
 > stretch once, then how do they get
 longer once? How do you verify your
 > answer?
 >
 > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No, how
 do you verify your answer?
 >
 > How does a chain that can stretch
 at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
 > get stretched on a bike frame that
 can only support a 160 Kg or 350
 > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg or
 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
 > 2000 Lbs of force into a chain to
 stretch it? Without destroying their
 > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
 > Which leads to the question, How
 does one type of shift lever make a
 > chain function twice as long as
 another type. How do you verify your
 > answer?
 >
 > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
 > wheel spokes get looser. Spokes
 only need to be tightened to round,
 > dish, tension, and true a wheel.
 How can finite element analysis and
 > computational fluid dynamics help
 a mechanic work 36 times more
 > efficiently?
 >
 > How can understanding the Sphere
 Stacking Equation improve the
 > hydraulic systems on a bicycle?
 (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
 > systems) and make cycling safer.
 >
 > How can a mechanic use a bench as
 a tool to reduce service time 25%
 >
 > Would it help your school, your
 students, bicycle businesses and
 > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
 > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
 > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
 >
 >
 > If any of this or all of this is
 new to you and you would like to
 > improve your training, feel free
 to reach out and start a conversation
 > telephone only. 773 -490 -0683
 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
 > in Chicago Illinois.
 >
 > PS
 > Yes I have re-invented the wheel
 three different ways, I am looking to
 > improve the cycling industry and I
 feel schools are the best way to do
 > that! I look forward to hearing
 from you.
 >
 > Sincerely
 > Christopher O, Wallace
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 ____________________________________

 The ThinkTank mailing List

 Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 ____________________________________

 The ThinkTank mailing List

 Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org


 --
 Kevin Dwyer
 Salt Lake City, UT
 801.647.0797



 IMPORTANT:  This communication is
 intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
 which it is addressed.  It may contain information that
 is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or
 other applicable privilege.  If you are not the
 intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for
 delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you
 are hereby notified that the disclosure of this
 communication is strictly prohibited.  If you have
 received this communication in error, please notify me
 immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the
 original message to me at the above address via email. 
 Thank you.
 ____________________________________
 The ThinkTank mailing List Unsubscribe from this list here:
 http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 ____________________________________

 The ThinkTank mailing List

 Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org

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 ------------------------------

 Message: 11
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 00:17:19 -0500
 From: Ainsley Naylor <needleandthread@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Both Body
 and bike benefit
 Message-ID:
    
 <CAEkJx+kG3OC_VpKR6ttgQQ+2JCoZNrKCq4UY_QdvCfPniYY+aA@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Hey friend, do you have a question
 about running a non-profit community
 bike project? Or something to share to
 that end? Because that is what this
 list is for.

 Please refrain from long, tangential
 diatribes. We are all keen to maintain
 this useful, supportive community, but
 this email exchange is leaving me
 feeling frustrated and exhausted.

 Thank you!
 Ainsley.

 On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 12:14 AM <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:

 > Pacing in a group is a nice
 community experience. Maintaining a high
 > Cadence is healthy for your body
 and your bike. Higher pedal spin for the
 > same velocity increases heart
 rate, increasing blood flow and lubrication
 > to the joints, reduces the
 pressure in the leg joint surfaces and the
 > connective tissue, reducing wear
 on the disks and allowing connective
 > tissue to grow in strength at a
 similar rate to the muscle tissue. The high
 > cadence reduces the load in the
 drive train, and places the load in bigger
 > cogs transferring the load across
 a greater surface area and across more
 > teeth reducing wear.
 > Benefiting both your body health
 and your wallet in reduced repair cost.
 >
 >
 > --------- Original Message
 ---------
 > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I
 have this wrong?
 > From: "Jim Bledsoe" <gamesbledsoe@gmail.com>
 > Date: 2/4/19 4:57 pm
 > To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 >
 > What we here at the thinktank are,
 is a bunch of open source bicycle
 > advocates.
 > When one posts a long drawn out
 list of questions with a pay me now gotcha
 > at the end it will tend to raise
 hackles
 >   "What does facing do for
 the customers ride experience?"  were you
 > meaning "pacing"   or
 more  succinctly, maintaining a high cadence here?
 >
 >
 >
 > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 2:39 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >> Tell me if I am wrong. If you
 work on a bike and make it better, that
 >> work has value. If I work on a
 process and make it better, the knowledge
 >> has no value and should be
 given away for free?
 >>
 >>
 >> When
 >> someone posts to a mailing
 list to sell a product, to me that
 >> constitutes cause to block
 that person from the mailing list.
 >>
 >> If you want to freely share
 here tutorials and techniques for everyone
 >> to review and learn from, in
 the interest of helping community bike
 >> shops hone their skillsets to
 a higher standard, I'd be the first to get
 >> interested. As it is, you
 never post detailed instructions, and quite
 >> frankly a lot of the processes
 you allude to are bizarrely out of scope
 >> with what most of us do on a
 daily basis. Your posts smell like bait.
 >>
 >> I'm personally requesting that
 you reconsider posting here. In this
 >> particular case, you even
 tacked your message onto a completely
 >> unrelated thread. I mean,
 might be I'm actually talking to a spam bot.
 >>
 >> cyclista Nicholas
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
 >> > I will ask a few
 questions and I am seeking if you have tests to prove
 >> > your answers.
 >> >
 >> > Does a quick release
 lever change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
 >> > is not important, how do
 you test to verify your answer is important.
 >> > How can this test be used
 to reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 >> >
 >> > What does facing do for
 the customers ride experience? Nothing/
 >> > Something? The following
 answers are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 >> > engineering based: it
 should be done, it is done at the factory, it
 >> > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
 >> > have it done. So what
 does it do? how does it improve a cyclist ride
 >> > experience? How do you
 verify your answer?
 >> >
 >> > How do stainless steel
 spokes and cables stretch once and then
 >> > magically become harder
 and never stretch again? If they do not
 >> > stretch once, then how do
 they get longer once? How do you verify your
 >> > answer?
 >> >
 >> > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or
 No, how do you verify your answer?
 >> >
 >> > How does a chain that can
 stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
 >> > get stretched on a bike
 frame that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
 >> > lbs cyclist. How can a 45
 Kg or 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
 >> > 2000 Lbs of force into a
 chain to stretch it? Without destroying their
 >> > knees? How do you verify
 your answer?
 >> > Which leads to the
 question, How does one type of shift lever make a
 >> > chain function twice as
 long as another type. How do you verify your
 >> > answer?
 >> >
 >> > Why do mechanics tighten
 and loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
 >> > wheel spokes get looser.
 Spokes only need to be tightened to round,
 >> > dish, tension, and true a
 wheel. How can finite element analysis and
 >> > computational fluid
 dynamics help a mechanic work 36 times more
 >> > efficiently?
 >> >
 >> > How can understanding the
 Sphere Stacking Equation improve the
 >> > hydraulic systems on a
 bicycle? (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
 >> > systems) and make cycling
 safer.
 >> >
 >> > How can a mechanic use a
 bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
 >> >
 >> > Would it help your
 school, your students, bicycle businesses and
 >> > cyclist; if your
 curriculum included verifiable testing processes,
 >> > efficient practices to
 reduce procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 >> > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
 >> > their cycling experience
 to improve sales?
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > If any of this or all of
 this is new to you and you would like to
 >> > improve your training,
 feel free to reach out and start a conversation
 >> > telephone only. 773 -490
 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
 >> > in Chicago Illinois.
 >> >
 >> > PS
 >> > Yes I have re-invented
 the wheel three different ways, I am looking to
 >> > improve the cycling
 industry and I feel schools are the best way to do
 >> > that! I look forward to
 hearing from you.
 >> >
 >> > Sincerely
 >> > Christopher O, Wallace
 >> >
 >> >
 ____________________________________
 >> >
 >> > The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >> >
 >> > Unsubscribe from this
 list here:
 >> >
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >
 ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 12
 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 22:20:10 -0800
 From: Lauren Warbeck <lauren.warbeck@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
    
 <CAAr69eV2A024v+D8y53WCgqCgtKb0x34YR5ptLBZ0gRAFa3=Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Thank you for your continued work
 Godwin ?????????

 On Mon, Feb 4, 2019, 9:07 PM Godwin !
 <goodgodwin@hotmail.com
 wrote:

 > Yes. I sent him an email asking
 him to stop and apologize, he replied
 > with more confusing insults and
 continued to post gibberish to the TT so I
 > removed and blocked him.
 >
 > godwin
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > ------------------------------
 > *From:* Thethinktank <thethinktank-bounces@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 on
 > behalf of Katie Vogel <katharine.d.vogel@gmail.com>
 > *Sent:* February 4, 2019 7:46 PM
 > *To:* The Think Tank
 > *Subject:* Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I
 have this wrong?
 >
 > Is this person banned yet? Asking
 for a friend.
 >
 > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 22:24
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >
 > May I have your best bike for
 free? or even your best tune up? Or web page
 > work, or social media, or NFP
 wording? What are you willing to do to lift
 > up my business for free so that I
 can lift up yours?
 > For free I gave you ideas you had
 not come up with yet. The idea of
 > testing your processes to prove
 that are the same as or different than you
 > current beliefs/ practices. You as
 a group can reinvent the
 > wheel or hold on to your beliefs.
 > You can lift me up and I will lift
 you up. You can shut me down like a
 > priests in the dark ages did to
 people of science. I have no power over
 > your actions. I only have
 knowledge
 >
 > --------- Original Message
 ---------
 > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I
 have this wrong?
 > From: "Kevin Dwyer" <kevidwyer@gmail.com>
 > Date: 2/4/19 1:32 pm
 > To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 >
 > No, you have it wrong. The
 knowledge has value, even more, because it is
 > given freely. That is the point of
 ThinkTank: sharing. If you don't want to
 > share freely, this is wrong place
 for you and you are wasting our time.
 >
 > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 1:09 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >
 > Tell me if I am wrong. If you work
 on a bike and make it better, that work
 > has value. If I work on a process
 and make it better, the knowledge has no
 > value and should be given away for
 free?
 >
 >
 > When
 > someone posts to a mailing list to
 sell a product, to me that
 > constitutes cause to block that
 person from the mailing list.
 >
 > If you want to freely share here
 tutorials and techniques for everyone
 > to review and learn from, in the
 interest of helping community bike
 > shops hone their skillsets to a
 higher standard, I'd be the first to get
 > interested. As it is, you never
 post detailed instructions, and quite
 > frankly a lot of the processes you
 allude to are bizarrely out of scope
 > with what most of us do on a daily
 basis. Your posts smell like bait.
 >
 > I'm personally requesting that you
 reconsider posting here. In this
 > particular case, you even tacked
 your message onto a completely
 > unrelated thread. I mean, might be
 I'm actually talking to a spam bot.
 >
 > cyclista Nicholas
 >
 >
 >
 > On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
 > > I will ask a few questions
 and I am seeking if you have tests to prove
 > > your answers.
 > >
 > > Does a quick release lever
 change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
 > > is not important, how do you
 test to verify your answer is important.
 > > How can this test be used to
 reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 > >
 > > What does facing do for the
 customers ride experience? Nothing/
 > > Something? The following
 answers are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 > > engineering based: it should
 be done, it is done at the factory, it
 > > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
 > > have it done. So what does it
 do? how does it improve a cyclist ride
 > > experience? How do you verify
 your answer?
 > >
 > > How do stainless steel spokes
 and cables stretch once and then
 > > magically become harder and
 never stretch again? If they do not
 > > stretch once, then how do
 they get longer once? How do you verify your
 > > answer?
 > >
 > > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No,
 how do you verify your answer?
 > >
 > > How does a chain that can
 stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
 > > get stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
 > > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg
 or 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
 > > 2000 Lbs of force into a
 chain to stretch it? Without destroying their
 > > knees? How do you verify your
 answer?
 > > Which leads to the question,
 How does one type of shift lever make a
 > > chain function twice as long
 as another type. How do you verify your
 > > answer?
 > >
 > > Why do mechanics tighten and
 loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
 > > wheel spokes get looser.
 Spokes only need to be tightened to round,
 > > dish, tension, and true a
 wheel. How can finite element analysis and
 > > computational fluid dynamics
 help a mechanic work 36 times more
 > > efficiently?
 > >
 > > How can understanding the
 Sphere Stacking Equation improve the
 > > hydraulic systems on a
 bicycle? (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
 > > systems) and make cycling
 safer.
 > >
 > > How can a mechanic use a
 bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
 > >
 > > Would it help your school,
 your students, bicycle businesses and
 > > cyclist; if your curriculum
 included verifiable testing processes,
 > > efficient practices to reduce
 procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 > > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
 > > their cycling experience to
 improve sales?
 > >
 > >
 > > If any of this or all of this
 is new to you and you would like to
 > > improve your training, feel
 free to reach out and start a conversation
 > > telephone only. 773 -490
 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
 > > in Chicago Illinois.
 > >
 > > PS
 > > Yes I have re-invented the
 wheel three different ways, I am looking to
 > > improve the cycling industry
 and I feel schools are the best way to do
 > > that! I look forward to
 hearing from you.
 > >
 > > Sincerely
 > > Christopher O, Wallace
 > >
 > >
 ____________________________________
 > >
 > > The ThinkTank mailing List
 > >
 > > Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 > >
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > Kevin Dwyer
 > Salt Lake City, UT
 > 801.647.0797
 >
 >
 >
 > IMPORTANT:  This
 communication is intended solely for the use of the
 > individual or entity to which it
 is addressed.  It may contain information
 > that is confidential and/or
 protected by the attorney-client or other
 > applicable privilege.  If you
 are not the intended recipient, or if you are
 > not responsible for delivering
 this communication to the intended
 > recipient, you are hereby notified
 that the disclosure of this
 > communication is strictly
 prohibited.  If you have received this
 > communication in error, please
 notify me immediately by telephone at (801)
 > 647-0797, and return the original
 message to me at the above address via
 > email.  Thank you.
 >
 ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 13
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 01:09:26 -0600
 From: Caleb Evenson <caevenson@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Elevating
 the knowledge base, Would your
     programs benefit?
 Message-ID:
    
 <CADEf7dQ3ysqhfybLCLNCqBpSDB0iV=9VBsfQbL+eheMiEiQ+Dw@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 That's quite a narrow view on anxiety,
 Christopher. Seems you have your own
 faith.

 On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:04 AM <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:

 >
 > If you have an immense test
 anxiety, then you should become a religious
 > leader. Your beliefs will far
 outweigh anything that's provable or
 > measurable
 >
 > --------- Original Message
 ---------
 > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank]
 Elevating the knowledge base, Would your
 > programs benefit?
 > From: "Judith Feist" <judith@backalleybikes.org>
 > Date: 2/3/19 5:41 pm
 > To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 >
 > What happens if you get immense
 test anxiety?
 >
 > On Sunday, February 3, 2019, Ulick
 O'Beirne <ulickobeirne@gmail.com>
 > wrote:
 >
 >> Hey Christopher
 >>
 >> Great questions and from a
 training point of view they could be amazing
 >> tests to have to hand.
 >>
 >> Have you compiled these ideas
 into a resource- manual/ course/ etc?
 >>
 >> I'm based in Ireland. I teach
 cycling in schools and to community groups.
 >> I teach bike mechanics and
 repair mainly to adults. With friends we hope to
 >> open a community bike shop in
 Clonakilty.
 >>
 >> Can you give more info on what
 you're thinking? Format etc?
 >>
 >> Cheers. Take care,
 >>
 >> Ulick
 >>
 >> On Sun 3 Feb 2019 at 05:57,
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >>
 >>>
 >>> I will ask a few questions
 and I am seeking if you have tests to prove
 >>> your answers.
 >>>
 >>> Does a quick release lever
 change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No is
 >>> not important, how do you
 test to verify your answer is important.
 >>> How can this test be used
 to reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 >>>
 >>> What does facing do for
 the customers ride experience?  Nothing/
 >>> Something? The following
 answers are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 >>> engineering based: it
 should be done, it is done at the factory, it does
 >>> not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist have it
 >>> done. So what does it do?
 how does it improve a cyclist ride experience?
 >>> How do you verify your
 answer?
 >>>
 >>> How do stainless steel
 spokes and cables stretch once and then magically
 >>> become harder and never
 stretch again? If they do not stretch once, then
 >>> how do they get longer
 once? How do you verify your answer?
 >>>
 >>> Do Bolts stretch? Yes or
 No, how do you verify your answer?
 >>>
 >>> How does a chain that can
 stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force get
 >>> stretched on a bike frame
 that can only support a 160 Kg or 350 lbs
 >>> cyclist. How can a 
 45 Kg or 100 pound cyclist  put  900 Kg or 2000
 Lbs of
 >>> force into a chain to
 stretch it? Without destroying their knees? How do
 >>> you verify your answer?
 >>> Which leads to the
 question, How does one type of shift lever make a
 >>> chain function twice as
 long as another type. How do you verify your answer?
 >>>
 >>> Why do mechanics tighten
 and loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a wheel
 >>> spokes get looser. Spokes
 only need to be tightened to round, dish,
 >>> tension, and true a wheel.
 How can finite element analysis and
 >>> computational fluid
 dynamics help a mechanic work 36 times more efficiently?
 >>>
 >>> How can understanding the
 Sphere Stacking Equation improve the hydraulic
 >>> systems on a bicycle?
 (Both hydraulic braking and suspension systems) and
 >>> make cycling safer.
 >>>
 >>> How can a mechanic use a
 bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
 >>>
 >>> Would it help your school,
 your students, bicycle businesses and
 >>> cyclist; if your
 curriculum included verifiable testing processes,
 >>> efficient practices to
 reduce procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 >>> language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve their
 >>> cycling experience to
 improve sales?
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> If any of this or all of
 this is new to you and you would like to
 >>> improve your training,
 feel free to reach out and start a conversation
 >>> telephone only. 773 -490
 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located in
 >>> Chicago Illinois.
 >>>
 >>> PS
 >>> Yes I have re-invented the
 wheel three different ways, I am looking to
 >>> improve the cycling
 industry and I feel schools are the best way to do
 >>> that! I look forward to
 hearing from you.
 >>>
 >>> Sincerely
 >>> Christopher O, Wallace
 >>>
 ____________________________________
 >>>
 >>> The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >>>
 >>> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>>
 >>
 >
 > --
 > Judith C Feist
 > Co Director, the Hub at Back
 Alley
 >
 >
 > *"*Radical simply means 'grasping
 things at the root'"- Angela Davis
 >
 > "A woman without a man is like a
 fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
 >
 > I think [the bicycle] has done
 more to emancipate women than anything else
 > in the world...It gives a woman a
 feeling of freedom and
 > self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
 >
 >
 ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 Message: 14
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 06:46:02 -0700
 From: Kevin Dwyer <kevidwyer@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
    
 <CADX0RX-L5ybGmiDGM=zuV16qbFtSOnYEpHSOpysDS6VVTFQhUA@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 That sucks but, many thanks, Godwin.

 On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:20 PM Lauren
 Warbeck <lauren.warbeck@gmail.com>
 wrote:

 > Thank you for your continued work
 Godwin ?????????
 >
 > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019, 9:07 PM
 Godwin ! <goodgodwin@hotmail.com
 wrote:
 >
 >> Yes. I sent him an email
 asking him to stop and apologize, he replied
 >> with more confusing insults
 and continued to post gibberish to the TT so I
 >> removed and blocked him.
 >>
 >> godwin
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 ------------------------------
 >> *From:* Thethinktank <thethinktank-bounces@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 on
 >> behalf of Katie Vogel <katharine.d.vogel@gmail.com>
 >> *Sent:* February 4, 2019 7:46
 PM
 >> *To:* The Think Tank
 >> *Subject:* Re: [TheThinkTank]
 Do I have this wrong?
 >>
 >> Is this person banned yet?
 Asking for a friend.
 >>
 >> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 22:24
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >>
 >> May I have your best bike for
 free? or even your best tune up? Or web
 >> page work, or social media, or
 NFP wording? What are you willing to do to
 >> lift up my business for free
 so that I can lift up yours?
 >> For free I gave you ideas you
 had not come up with yet. The idea of
 >> testing your processes to
 prove that are the same as or different than you
 >> current beliefs/ practices.
 You as a group can reinvent the
 >> wheel or hold on to your
 beliefs.
 >> You can lift me up and I will
 lift you up. You can shut me down like a
 >> priests in the dark ages did
 to people of science. I have no power over
 >> your actions. I only have
 knowledge
 >>
 >> --------- Original Message
 ---------
 >> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do
 I have this wrong?
 >> From: "Kevin Dwyer" <kevidwyer@gmail.com>
 >> Date: 2/4/19 1:32 pm
 >> To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 >>
 >> No, you have it wrong. The
 knowledge has value, even more, because it is
 >> given freely. That is the
 point of ThinkTank: sharing. If you don't want to
 >> share freely, this is wrong
 place for you and you are wasting our time.
 >>
 >> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 1:09 PM
 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >>
 >> Tell me if I am wrong. If you
 work on a bike and make it better, that
 >> work has value. If I work on a
 process and make it better, the knowledge
 >> has no value and should be
 given away for free?
 >>
 >>
 >> When
 >> someone posts to a mailing
 list to sell a product, to me that
 >> constitutes cause to block
 that person from the mailing list.
 >>
 >> If you want to freely share
 here tutorials and techniques for everyone
 >> to review and learn from, in
 the interest of helping community bike
 >> shops hone their skillsets to
 a higher standard, I'd be the first to get
 >> interested. As it is, you
 never post detailed instructions, and quite
 >> frankly a lot of the processes
 you allude to are bizarrely out of scope
 >> with what most of us do on a
 daily basis. Your posts smell like bait.
 >>
 >> I'm personally requesting that
 you reconsider posting here. In this
 >> particular case, you even
 tacked your message onto a completely
 >> unrelated thread. I mean,
 might be I'm actually talking to a spam bot.
 >>
 >> cyclista Nicholas
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
 >> > I will ask a few
 questions and I am seeking if you have tests to prove
 >> > your answers.
 >> >
 >> > Does a quick release
 lever change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
 >> > is not important, how do
 you test to verify your answer is important.
 >> > How can this test be used
 to reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 >> >
 >> > What does facing do for
 the customers ride experience? Nothing/
 >> > Something? The following
 answers are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 >> > engineering based: it
 should be done, it is done at the factory, it
 >> > does not need to be done,
 eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
 >> > have it done. So what
 does it do? how does it improve a cyclist ride
 >> > experience? How do you
 verify your answer?
 >> >
 >> > How do stainless steel
 spokes and cables stretch once and then
 >> > magically become harder
 and never stretch again? If they do not
 >> > stretch once, then how do
 they get longer once? How do you verify your
 >> > answer?
 >> >
 >> > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or
 No, how do you verify your answer?
 >> >
 >> > How does a chain that can
 stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
 >> > get stretched on a bike
 frame that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
 >> > lbs cyclist. How can a 45
 Kg or 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
 >> > 2000 Lbs of force into a
 chain to stretch it? Without destroying their
 >> > knees? How do you verify
 your answer?
 >> > Which leads to the
 question, How does one type of shift lever make a
 >> > chain function twice as
 long as another type. How do you verify your
 >> > answer?
 >> >
 >> > Why do mechanics tighten
 and loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
 >> > wheel spokes get looser.
 Spokes only need to be tightened to round,
 >> > dish, tension, and true a
 wheel. How can finite element analysis and
 >> > computational fluid
 dynamics help a mechanic work 36 times more
 >> > efficiently?
 >> >
 >> > How can understanding the
 Sphere Stacking Equation improve the
 >> > hydraulic systems on a
 bicycle? (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
 >> > systems) and make cycling
 safer.
 >> >
 >> > How can a mechanic use a
 bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
 >> >
 >> > Would it help your
 school, your students, bicycle businesses and
 >> > cyclist; if your
 curriculum included verifiable testing processes,
 >> > efficient practices to
 reduce procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 >> > language to help cyclist
 understand what a procedure does to improve
 >> > their cycling experience
 to improve sales?
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > If any of this or all of
 this is new to you and you would like to
 >> > improve your training,
 feel free to reach out and start a conversation
 >> > telephone only. 773 -490
 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
 >> > in Chicago Illinois.
 >> >
 >> > PS
 >> > Yes I have re-invented
 the wheel three different ways, I am looking to
 >> > improve the cycling
 industry and I feel schools are the best way to do
 >> > that! I look forward to
 hearing from you.
 >> >
 >> > Sincerely
 >> > Christopher O, Wallace
 >> >
 >> >
 ____________________________________
 >> >
 >> > The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >> >
 >> > Unsubscribe from this
 list here:
 >> >
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> Kevin Dwyer
 >> Salt Lake City, UT
 >> 801.647.0797
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> IMPORTANT:  This
 communication is intended solely for the use of the
 >> individual or entity to which
 it is addressed.  It may contain information
 >> that is confidential and/or
 protected by the attorney-client or other
 >> applicable privilege.  If
 you are not the intended recipient, or if you are
 >> not responsible for delivering
 this communication to the intended
 >> recipient, you are hereby
 notified that the disclosure of this
 >> communication is strictly
 prohibited.  If you have received this
 >> communication in error, please
 notify me immediately by telephone at (801)
 >> 647-0797, and return the
 original message to me at the above address via
 >> email.  Thank you.
 >>
 ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 15
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 09:13:01 -0500
 From: Anibal Davila <caffenated@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
     <CALRn+6WGWNDnd-m316HJPkwJUtCmAu_EGagqP6Sq0yxLWYH4pA@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Thanks Godwin

 On Tue, Feb 5, 2019, 8:46 AM Kevin
 Dwyer <kevidwyer@gmail.com
 wrote:

 > That sucks but, many thanks,
 Godwin.
 >
 > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:20 PM
 Lauren Warbeck <lauren.warbeck@gmail.com>
 > wrote:
 >
 >> Thank you for your continued
 work Godwin ?????????
 >>
 >> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019, 9:07 PM
 Godwin ! <goodgodwin@hotmail.com
 wrote:
 >>
 >>> Yes. I sent him an email
 asking him to stop and apologize, he replied
 >>> with more confusing
 insults and continued to post gibberish to the TT so I
 >>> removed and blocked him.
 >>>
 >>> godwin
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 ------------------------------
 >>> *From:* Thethinktank
 <thethinktank-bounces@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 >>> on behalf of Katie Vogel
 <katharine.d.vogel@gmail.com>
 >>> *Sent:* February 4, 2019
 7:46 PM
 >>> *To:* The Think Tank
 >>> *Subject:* Re:
 [TheThinkTank] Do I have this wrong?
 >>>
 >>> Is this person banned yet?
 Asking for a friend.
 >>>
 >>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at
 22:24 <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >>>
 >>> May I have your best bike
 for free? or even your best tune up? Or web
 >>> page work, or social
 media, or NFP wording? What are you willing to do to
 >>> lift up my business for
 free so that I can lift up yours?
 >>> For free I gave you ideas
 you had not come up with yet. The idea of
 >>> testing your processes to
 prove that are the same as or different than you
 >>> current beliefs/
 practices. You as a group can reinvent the
 >>> wheel or hold on to your
 beliefs.
 >>> You can lift me up and I
 will lift you up. You can shut me down like a
 >>> priests in the dark ages
 did to people of science. I have no power over
 >>> your actions. I only have
 knowledge
 >>>
 >>> --------- Original Message
 ---------
 >>> Subject: Re:
 [TheThinkTank] Do I have this wrong?
 >>> From: "Kevin Dwyer" <kevidwyer@gmail.com>
 >>> Date: 2/4/19 1:32 pm
 >>> To: "The Think Tank"
 <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 >>>
 >>> No, you have it wrong. The
 knowledge has value, even more, because it is
 >>> given freely. That is the
 point of ThinkTank: sharing. If you don't want to
 >>> share freely, this is
 wrong place for you and you are wasting our time.
 >>>
 >>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at
 1:09 PM <christopher@holisticcycles.com>
 wrote:
 >>>
 >>> Tell me if I am wrong. If
 you work on a bike and make it better, that
 >>> work has value. If I work
 on a process and make it better, the knowledge
 >>> has no value and should be
 given away for free?
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> When
 >>> someone posts to a mailing
 list to sell a product, to me that
 >>> constitutes cause to block
 that person from the mailing list.
 >>>
 >>> If you want to freely
 share here tutorials and techniques for everyone
 >>> to review and learn from,
 in the interest of helping community bike
 >>> shops hone their skillsets
 to a higher standard, I'd be the first to get
 >>> interested. As it is, you
 never post detailed instructions, and quite
 >>> frankly a lot of the
 processes you allude to are bizarrely out of scope
 >>> with what most of us do on
 a daily basis. Your posts smell like bait.
 >>>
 >>> I'm personally requesting
 that you reconsider posting here. In this
 >>> particular case, you even
 tacked your message onto a completely
 >>> unrelated thread. I mean,
 might be I'm actually talking to a spam bot.
 >>>
 >>> cyclista Nicholas
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com
 wrote:
 >>> > I will ask a few
 questions and I am seeking if you have tests to prove
 >>> > your answers.
 >>> >
 >>> > Does a quick release
 lever change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
 >>> > is not important, how
 do you test to verify your answer is important.
 >>> > How can this test be
 used to reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
 >>> >
 >>> > What does facing do
 for the customers ride experience? Nothing/
 >>> > Something? The
 following answers are guesses, beliefs, not science or
 >>> > engineering based: it
 should be done, it is done at the factory, it
 >>> > does not need to be
 done, eliminates pedal click, professional cyclist
 >>> > have it done. So what
 does it do? how does it improve a cyclist ride
 >>> > experience? How do
 you verify your answer?
 >>> >
 >>> > How do stainless
 steel spokes and cables stretch once and then
 >>> > magically become
 harder and never stretch again? If they do not
 >>> > stretch once, then
 how do they get longer once? How do you verify your
 >>> > answer?
 >>> >
 >>> > Do Bolts stretch? Yes
 or No, how do you verify your answer?
 >>> >
 >>> > How does a chain that
 can stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
 >>> > get stretched on a
 bike frame that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
 >>> > lbs cyclist. How can
 a 45 Kg or 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
 >>> > 2000 Lbs of force
 into a chain to stretch it? Without destroying their
 >>> > knees? How do you
 verify your answer?
 >>> > Which leads to the
 question, How does one type of shift lever make a
 >>> > chain function twice
 as long as another type. How do you verify your
 >>> > answer?
 >>> >
 >>> > Why do mechanics
 tighten and loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
 >>> > wheel spokes get
 looser. Spokes only need to be tightened to round,
 >>> > dish, tension, and
 true a wheel. How can finite element analysis and
 >>> > computational fluid
 dynamics help a mechanic work 36 times more
 >>> > efficiently?
 >>> >
 >>> > How can understanding
 the Sphere Stacking Equation improve the
 >>> > hydraulic systems on
 a bicycle? (Both hydraulic braking and suspension
 >>> > systems) and make
 cycling safer.
 >>> >
 >>> > How can a mechanic
 use a bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
 >>> >
 >>> > Would it help your
 school, your students, bicycle businesses and
 >>> > cyclist; if your
 curriculum included verifiable testing processes,
 >>> > efficient practices
 to reduce procedure time 25% to 50%, service sale
 >>> > language to help
 cyclist understand what a procedure does to improve
 >>> > their cycling
 experience to improve sales?
 >>> >
 >>> >
 >>> > If any of this or all
 of this is new to you and you would like to
 >>> > improve your
 training, feel free to reach out and start a conversation
 >>> > telephone only. 773
 -490 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
 >>> > in Chicago Illinois.
 >>> >
 >>> > PS
 >>> > Yes I have
 re-invented the wheel three different ways, I am looking to
 >>> > improve the cycling
 industry and I feel schools are the best way to do
 >>> > that! I look forward
 to hearing from you.
 >>> >
 >>> > Sincerely
 >>> > Christopher O,
 Wallace
 >>> >
 >>> >
 ____________________________________
 >>> >
 >>> > The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >>> >
 >>> > Unsubscribe from this
 list here:
 >>> >
 >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>>
 ____________________________________
 >>>
 >>> The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >>>
 >>> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>>
 >>>
 ____________________________________
 >>>
 >>> The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >>>
 >>> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> Kevin Dwyer
 >>> Salt Lake City, UT
 >>> 801.647.0797
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> IMPORTANT:  This
 communication is intended solely for the use of the
 >>> individual or entity to
 which it is addressed.  It may contain information
 >>> that is confidential
 and/or protected by the attorney-client or other
 >>> applicable
 privilege.  If you are not the intended recipient, or
 if you are
 >>> not responsible for
 delivering this communication to the intended
 >>> recipient, you are hereby
 notified that the disclosure of this
 >>> communication is strictly
 prohibited.  If you have received this
 >>> communication in error,
 please notify me immediately by telephone at (801)
 >>> 647-0797, and return the
 original message to me at the above address via
 >>> email.  Thank you.
 >>>
 ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >>> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>>
 >>>
 ____________________________________
 >>>
 >>> The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >>>
 >>> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>>
 >>>
 ____________________________________
 >>>
 >>> The ThinkTank mailing
 List
 >>>
 >>> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>>
 >>>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 16
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 09:33:12 -0500
 From: Judith Feist <judith@backalleybikes.org>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
     <CABQKaWuWqikWOoM6_LvJfjXBhOLgH6LFM0VwphhQ0L6Nj0CriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Thank you Godwin. Greatly appreciated.

 --
 Judith C Feist
 Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley


 *"*Radical simply means 'grasping
 things at the root'"- Angela Davis

 "A woman without a man is like a fish
 without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem

 I think [the bicycle] has done more to
 emancipate women than anything else
 in the world...It gives a woman a
 feeling of freedom and
 self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 17
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 09:59:08 -0500
 From: Jeffery Getten <jeff@backalleybikes.org>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
     <CACy+GZZ5Oy2xoqw3jbiQfRi-PUb9XZt7Jk8Lx2Pw8kcXmeZTKw@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Thank you Godwin, I'm new to the group
 and was hoping this was not the
 "norm".

 On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:24 AM Judith
 Feist <judith@backalleybikes.org>
 wrote:

 > Thank you Godwin. Greatly
 appreciated.
 >
 > --
 > Judith C Feist
 > Co Director, the Hub at Back
 Alley
 >
 >
 > *"*Radical simply means 'grasping
 things at the root'"- Angela Davis
 >
 > "A woman without a man is like a
 fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
 >
 > I think [the bicycle] has done
 more to emancipate women than anything else
 > in the world...It gives a woman a
 feeling of freedom and
 > self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >

 --
 Jeffrey Getten
 Co-Director
 The Hub of Back Alley / Back Alley
 Bikes
 3611 Cass Ave.
 Detroit, MI 48201
 313.833.0813
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 18
 Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 10:16:20 -0500
 From: Josh Bisker <jbisker@gmail.com>
 To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have
 this wrong?
 Message-ID:
     <CAJFfK6nCw3Y=PhNJeMC9Ade2phzd8v8Y5j0HkHPWBcEWakjiVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Excellent. Good episode, everyone.
 B-list bad guy takes up an unexpected 20
 minutes of screen time, things get
 really bad when he suddenly stumps for
 Trump (?!), our heroes flounder, and
 then Godwin comes to the rescue with a
 deux-ex-machina fix and everything is
 resolved with hugs and emoji. Good
 television, would watch again.

 Josh Bisker
 914-500-9890
 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op
 <http://bikecoop.nyc/>
 596 Acres <http://596acres.org/>
 Bindlestiff Family Cirkus <http://bindlestiff.org/>


 On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:50 AM Jeffery
 Getten <jeff@backalleybikes.org>
 wrote:

 > Thank you Godwin, I'm new to the
 group and was hoping this was not the
 > "norm".
 >
 > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:24 AM
 Judith Feist <judith@backalleybikes.org>
 > wrote:
 >
 >> Thank you Godwin. Greatly
 appreciated.
 >>
 >> --
 >> Judith C Feist
 >> Co Director, the Hub at Back
 Alley
 >>
 >>
 >> *"*Radical simply means
 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
 >>
 >> "A woman without a man is like
 a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
 >>
 >> I think [the bicycle] has done
 more to emancipate women than anything
 >> else in the world...It gives a
 woman a feeling of freedom and
 >> self-reliance.~Susan B.
 Anthony
 >>
 ____________________________________
 >>
 >> The ThinkTank mailing List
 >>
 >> Unsubscribe from this list
 here:
 >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >>
 >>
 >
 > --
 > Jeffrey Getten
 > Co-Director
 > The Hub of Back Alley / Back Alley
 Bikes
 > 3611 Cass Ave.
 > Detroit, MI 48201
 > 313.833.0813
 >
 ____________________________________
 >
 > The ThinkTank mailing List
 >
 > Unsubscribe from this list here:
 > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
 >
 >
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 ------------------------------

 Subject: Digest Footer

 _______________________________________________
 Thethinktank mailing list
 Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
 http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org


 ------------------------------

 End of Thethinktank Digest, Vol 149,
 Issue 4
 ********************************************





---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Patrick Goguen <info@worcesterearnabike.org>
To: "thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org" <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 21:00:20 -0500
Subject: [TheThinkTank] Bike Life Movement

Hi bike folks, long time reader first time poster here. Wanted to share some cool stuff happening where I live, especially after whatever that spam was ( thanks Godwin). Worcester Earn-A-Bike is sending a crew of youth to the youth bike summit in a few weeks, and I wanted to share here a short doc that the youth will be screening, about the local bike life movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlU7qgnGziA

 

Directed by Andi Lipo & Jeremy Hartman

Please note this Mini Doc was made with Love By: https://www.easternblocc.com/

About 508 Pedal Bikelife; 508 pedal BikeLife is an autonomously-organized group of youth cyclists aged 7-24. Often maligned by the press and certain sectors of the public, the youth have been actively trying to share their side of the story and change the negative perceptions about their activity. Although their slogan is "Bikes Up, Guns Down," they are often mis-identified and policed as if they were a gang with violent intentions.

 

With a grease stained heart,

Patrick Goguen

Shop Manager

Worcester Earn-A-Bike

 

 

 




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jesse Cooper <jessecooper0@gmail.com>
To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 21:55:05 -0800
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike Life Movement
one of the most beautiful and poignant stories .. thanks for sharing. and yeah, gonna tear up some.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 6:00 PM Patrick Goguen <info@worcesterearnabike.org> wrote:

Hi bike folks, long time reader first time poster here. Wanted to share some cool stuff happening where I live, especially after whatever that spam was ( thanks Godwin). Worcester Earn-A-Bike is sending a crew of youth to the youth bike summit in a few weeks, and I wanted to share here a short doc that the youth will be screening, about the local bike life movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlU7qgnGziA

 

Directed by Andi Lipo & Jeremy Hartman

Please note this Mini Doc was made with Love By: https://www.easternblocc.com/

About 508 Pedal Bikelife; 508 pedal BikeLife is an autonomously-organized group of youth cyclists aged 7-24. Often maligned by the press and certain sectors of the public, the youth have been actively trying to share their side of the story and change the negative perceptions about their activity. Although their slogan is "Bikes Up, Guns Down," they are often mis-identified and policed as if they were a gang with violent intentions.

 

With a grease stained heart,

Patrick Goguen

Shop Manager

Worcester Earn-A-Bike

 

 

 

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The ThinkTank mailing List

Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cyclista Nicholas <cyclista@inventati.org>
To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: christopher@holisticcycles.com
Bcc: 
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2019 06:48:05 +0000
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Elevating the knowledge base, Would your programs benefit?
It is highly unlikely that any of us here are involved in manufacturing.
Relatively few of the organizations listed at bikecolectives.org even
repair bikes for customers.

Most community bicycle shops assist the general public by either giving
away repaired bikes that they were donated for free, or by helping
people in their local communities learn or practice bike repair. Even
some of the larger operations I've visited (Portland, Philadelphia) seem
to operate for-profit repair and sales as peripheral functions. We are
not normal bike shops (LBS) for the most part, Christopher.

I'm entirely interested in sophisticating my technique; at our shop we
strive to communicate correct (or relatively correct) techniques for
each process and even if the "perfect" method cannot be imparted for
whatever reason, it's always good to have that knowledge in my back
pocket to calibrate my general understanding of processes, materials,
and engineering.

This being said, 90% of what we do involves helping a drunk homeless
person fix a flat tire or repack a wheel hub, or a ten year old and
their parent fix up an entire bike that's been sitting in their backyard
for two years when they have /exactly/ one hour to spend. Or
refurbishing the center pull caliper brakes on a college student's bike
they inherited from the previous tenant at their apartment, when that
college student has very limited interest in the process, being that
they are a freshman just having arrived in town from another country, or
they are nerve-wracked over finishing their thesis. Sometimes there are
gangs of neighborhood hoodlums who probably stolen some or all of the
bikes they've brought in, and barely care at all about anything other
than "make it go". Having a scientifically proven method for calculating
microscopic stretch in a stainless spoke is basically psychologically
and practically irrelevant to all of the above populations. And it is
irrelevant to our bottom line as an organization. We help people, we
provide a welcoming and safe space, and we triage worst case mechanical
scenarios.

We on this list work with people as much as bikes, and you can't Six
Sigma social work because you can't Six Sigma human life.

Also, I find it odd that as a frothing evangelist of precision
methodology, you can't seem to figure out how to properly reply inline,
create paragraphs, or orient yourself among a variety of threads. Those
are some pretty basic and important skills when interacting with a
mailing list.

I don't disparage your salesmanship, and certainly if you have valuable
skills, you should be able to get compensation for employing them. But
we aren't your employers, and a mailing list is not an acceptable place
to sell anything. You might notice that you are the only one who ever
appears here to do so. If you want to verify that, you can search here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/pipermail/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org/

We all come here to maintain and develop community, to ask and answer
questions, and generally to share information. Please do
conversationally share tips and techniques here, if they're real someone
will benefit from such. Please don't, however, try to sell anything,
evangelize, or spread hyperbole. Nobody here has time for that. And a
gathering place for largely nonprofit programs is a terrible place to
sell things. Many of us have a hard time just keeping the heat bills
paid (if we even have heat at all).

cyclista Nicholas



On 2019-02-04 21:16, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
> So, in the question of wheel truing, I am wondering why you don't allow
>  for rims becoming deformed. As a learned mechanic you know of the
> procedures Barnett has for unbending a rim, or you know how to replace
> a rim or even sell a customer an undamaged wheel to replace the
> damaged one.  Unless you promote that a damage wheel will be just
> as safe for the cyclist to use as one that is not damaged.
>  As a mechanic: when you sign off that the work is compleated your
> actions say that the
>  bike is up to standards and safe.A court of law does not recognize (
> as
> safe as it can be) as a legal defination. On your own bike you can work
>  on a bent wheel, On a customers bike, you take on a world of liability
> if you do not complete a repair to the safest standard, The action of
> presenting
> damaged product as safe can harm both you and your business,
> Your presentation implies that rims maintain
>  perfection except in cases where spoke tension temporarily interferes.
>
>  In other words, it's obvious that while some spokes may become loose
>  through repetitive stress, since the web of spokes share a single
> load,
>  others will become tighter as the rim deforms. Since little can be
> done
>  in the average shop to re-perfect the bare rim once deformed, the
>  tighter spokes must maintain some amount of increased tension to keep
>  this now-deformed rim true.
>
>  I'm not going to present any test that I've developed to "prove" this
>  process, I'm actually posting this response because I find it kind of
>  offensive that you keep posting here essentially as a salesperson.
> When
>  someone posts to a mailing list to sell a product, to me that
>  constitutes cause to block that person from the mailing list.
>
>  If you want to freely share here tutorials and techniques for everyone
>  to review and learn from, in the interest of helping community bike
>  shops hone their skillsets to a higher standard, I'd be the first to
> get
>  interested. As it is, you never post detailed instructions, and quite
>  frankly a lot of the processes you allude to are bizarrely out of
> scope
>  with what most of us do on a daily basis. Do you ever tighten a bolt
>  too tightly or without enough clamping force because you do not
>  measure torque? If a bolt broke or slipped would you be liable? Do
>  you like feeling grind in your hubs or see that your cones are pitted
>  in bikes with quick release levers but seldom see cone damaged in bolt
> on hubs?
> Do your daily commuter customers complain that there brakes are rubbing
> and your
>  truing work only lasts for part of a season and not years?
> Do cyclist ever complain about a click in the pedal area? Are these
>  the bizarrely out of scope ideas you speak of?      Your posts smell
> like bait.
> They are bait, Designed to get you to think. If you can not come up
> with an answer
> then as a group you can either come up with tests or 100% beliefs. The
> beliefs are
> dark ages showing its head in 2019. No one is lifted up in knowledge
> base or skill with belief.
> My knowledge is for sale, only because it has value, I also see that
> your community based
> bicycle organizations have value. You work hard and do great things, I
> have worked hard
> and I make great materials. Your moneys are tight and I am willing to
> greatly discount my
> work to help make your programs more profitable, improve quality,
> reduce liability, and more.
> Nicholas, if you see me as having no value to this group, ban me!  If
> you think I work for free,
> Bite me!  I want to lift up organizations that are open to improving
> the experience of cyclist and their businesses.
>
>
>  I'm personally requesting that you reconsider posting here. In this
>  particular case, you even tacked your message onto a completely
>  unrelated thread. I mean, might be I'm actually talking to a spam bot.
>  Ok I am a bot, you caught me
>  cyclista Nicholas
>
>
>
>  On 2019-02-03 05:57, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
>  > I will ask a few questions and I am seeking if you have tests to
> prove
>  > your answers.
>  >
>  > Does a quick release lever change the adjustment of a hub? Yes or No
>  > is not important, how do you test to verify your answer is
> important.
>  > How can this test be used to reduce service time to 1/20 the time?
>  >
>  > What does facing do for the customers ride experience? Nothing/
>  > Something? The following answers are guesses, beliefs, not science
> or
>  > engineering based: it should be done, it is done at the factory, it
>  > does not need to be done, eliminates pedal click, professional
> cyclist
>  > have it done. So what does it do? how does it improve a cyclist ride
>  > experience? How do you verify your answer?
>  >
>  > How do stainless steel spokes and cables stretch once and then
>  > magically become harder and never stretch again? If they do not
>  > stretch once, then how do they get longer once? How do you verify
> your
>  > answer?
>  >
>  > Do Bolts stretch? Yes or No, how do you verify your answer?
>  >
>  > How does a chain that can stretch at 900 Kg or 2000 pounds of force
>  > get stretched on a bike frame that can only support a 160 Kg or 350
>  > lbs cyclist. How can a 45 Kg or 100 pound cyclist put 900 Kg or
>  > 2000 Lbs of force into a chain to stretch it? Without destroying
> their
>  > knees? How do you verify your answer?
>  > Which leads to the question, How does one type of shift lever make a
>  > chain function twice as long as another type. How do you verify your
>  > answer?
>  >
>  > Why do mechanics tighten and loosen spokes? When a cyclist uses a
>  > wheel spokes get looser. Spokes only need to be tightened to round,
>  > dish, tension, and true a wheel. How can finite element analysis and
>  > computational fluid dynamics help a mechanic work 36 times more
>  > efficiently?
>  >
>  > How can understanding the Sphere Stacking Equation improve the
>  > hydraulic systems on a bicycle? (Both hydraulic braking and
> suspension
>  > systems) and make cycling safer.
>  >
>  > How can a mechanic use a bench as a tool to reduce service time 25%
>  >
>  > Would it help your school, your students, bicycle businesses and
>  > cyclist; if your curriculum included verifiable testing processes,
>  > efficient practices to reduce procedure time 25% to 50%, service
> sale
>  > language to help cyclist understand what a procedure does to improve
>  > their cycling experience to improve sales?
>  >
>  >
>  > If any of this or all of this is new to you and you would like to
>  > improve your training, feel free to reach out and start a
> conversation
>  > telephone only. 773 -490 -0683 Christopher O. Wallace . I am located
>  > in Chicago Illinois.
>  >
>  > PS
>  > Yes I have re-invented the wheel three different ways, I am looking
> to
>  > improve the cycling industry and I feel schools are the best way to
> do
>  > that! I look forward to hearing from you.
>  >
>  > Sincerely
>  > Christopher O, Wallace
>  >
>  > ____________________________________
>  >
>  > The ThinkTank mailing List
>  >
>  > Unsubscribe from this list here:
>  >
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>  ____________________________________
>
>  The ThinkTank mailing List
>
>  Unsubscribe from this list here:
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>
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>
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>
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cyclista Nicholas <cyclista@inventati.org>
To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: Josh Bisker <jbisker@gmail.com>
Bcc: 
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2019 07:44:25 +0000
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Do I have this wrong?
Thanks Godwin! Sorry to everyone for perpetuating it and creating
another response, I hadn't read this thread yet.

cyclista Nicholas


On 2019-02-05 15:16, Josh Bisker wrote:
> Excellent. Good episode, everyone. B-list bad guy takes up an
> unexpected 20
> minutes of screen time, things get really bad when he suddenly stumps
> for
> Trump (?!), our heroes flounder, and then Godwin comes to the rescue
> with a
> deux-ex-machina fix and everything is resolved with hugs and emoji.
> Good
> television, would watch again.
>
> Josh Bisker
> 914-500-9890
> New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op <http://bikecoop.nyc/>
> 596 Acres <http://596acres.org/>
> Bindlestiff Family Cirkus <http://bindlestiff.org/>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:50 AM Jeffery Getten <jeff@backalleybikes.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Godwin, I'm new to the group and was hoping this was not the
>> "norm".
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 9:24 AM Judith Feist
>> <judith@backalleybikes.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Godwin. Greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Judith C Feist
>>> Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley
>>>
>>>
>>> *"*Radical simply means 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
>>>
>>> "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria
>>> Steinem
>>>
>>> I think [the bicycle] has done more to emancipate women than anything
>>> else in the world...It gives a woman a feeling of freedom and
>>> self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
>>> ____________________________________
>>>
>>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe from this list here:
>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeffrey Getten
>> Co-Director
>> The Hub of Back Alley / Back Alley Bikes
>> 3611 Cass Ave.
>> Detroit, MI 48201
>> 313.833.0813
>> ____________________________________
>>
>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>
>> Unsubscribe from this list here:
>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________
>
> The ThinkTank mailing List
>
> Unsubscribe from this list here:
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cyclista Nicholas <cyclista@inventati.org>
To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: Jesse Cooper <jessecooper0@gmail.com>
Bcc: 
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2019 10:23:22 +0000
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike Life Movement
Welcome Patrick! Thanks for this, I loved it.

We could use this in a film festival. Do you know if we can get a copy
of this for public screening?

cyclista Nicholas



On 2019-02-06 05:55, Jesse Cooper wrote:
> one of the most beautiful and poignant stories .. thanks for sharing.
> and
> yeah, gonna tear up some.
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 6:00 PM Patrick Goguen
> <info@worcesterearnabike.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi bike folks, long time reader first time poster here. Wanted to
>> share
>> some cool stuff happening where I live, especially after whatever that
>> spam
>> was ( thanks Godwin). Worcester Earn-A-Bike is sending a crew of youth
>> to
>> the youth bike summit in a few weeks, and I wanted to share here a
>> short
>> doc that the youth will be screening, about the local bike life
>> movement.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlU7qgnGziA
>>
>>
>>
>> Directed by Andi Lipo & Jeremy Hartman
>>
>> Please note this Mini Doc was made with Love By:
>> https://www.easternblocc.com/
>> <https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.easternblocc.com%2F&v=YlU7qgnGziA&event=video_description&redir_token=XuNwGgHtSK_tFiHAMWNoMJ9vXzt8MTU0OTUwNDU3MUAxNTQ5NDE4MTcx>
>>
>> About 508 Pedal Bikelife; 508 pedal BikeLife is an
>> autonomously-organized
>> group of youth cyclists aged 7-24. Often maligned by the press and
>> certain
>> sectors of the public, the youth have been actively trying to share
>> their
>> side of the story and change the negative perceptions about their
>> activity.
>> Although their slogan is "Bikes Up, Guns Down," they are often
>> mis-identified and policed as if they were a gang with violent
>> intentions.
>>
>>
>>
>> With a grease stained heart,
>>
>> Patrick Goguen
>>
>> Shop Manager
>>
>> Worcester Earn-A-Bike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________
>>
>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>
>> Unsubscribe from this list here:
>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________
>
> The ThinkTank mailing List
>
> Unsubscribe from this list here:
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Drew Anderson <drew.m.ande@gmail.com>
To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 09:50:33 -0600
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike Life Movement
Wonderful! Thanks for sharing!

Drew
Bike Cave, Duluth, MN 

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 8:19 PM Patrick Goguen <info@worcesterearnabike.org> wrote:

Hi bike folks, long time reader first time poster here. Wanted to share some cool stuff happening where I live, especially after whatever that spam was ( thanks Godwin). Worcester Earn-A-Bike is sending a crew of youth to the youth bike summit in a few weeks, and I wanted to share here a short doc that the youth will be screening, about the local bike life movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlU7qgnGziA

 

Directed by Andi Lipo & Jeremy Hartman

Please note this Mini Doc was made with Love By: https://www.easternblocc.com/

About 508 Pedal Bikelife; 508 pedal BikeLife is an autonomously-organized group of youth cyclists aged 7-24. Often maligned by the press and certain sectors of the public, the youth have been actively trying to share their side of the story and change the negative perceptions about their activity. Although their slogan is "Bikes Up, Guns Down," they are often mis-identified and policed as if they were a gang with violent intentions.

 

With a grease stained heart,

Patrick Goguen

Shop Manager

Worcester Earn-A-Bike

 

 

 

____________________________________

The ThinkTank mailing List

Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ainsley Naylor <needleandthread@gmail.com>
To: The Think Tank <thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org>
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 11:25:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike Life Movement
I hope to meet you at the YBS Patrick! (I'm heading down with 3 youth from the cycling scene in Toronto)

:)

Ainsley.

On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 10:50 AM Drew Anderson <drew.m.ande@gmail.com> wrote:
Wonderful! Thanks for sharing!

Drew
Bike Cave, Duluth, MN 

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 8:19 PM Patrick Goguen <info@worcesterearnabike.org> wrote:

Hi bike folks, long time reader first time poster here. Wanted to share some cool stuff happening where I live, especially after whatever that spam was ( thanks Godwin). Worcester Earn-A-Bike is sending a crew of youth to the youth bike summit in a few weeks, and I wanted to share here a short doc that the youth will be screening, about the local bike life movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlU7qgnGziA

 

Directed by Andi Lipo & Jeremy Hartman

Please note this Mini Doc was made with Love By: https://www.easternblocc.com/

About 508 Pedal Bikelife; 508 pedal BikeLife is an autonomously-organized group of youth cyclists aged 7-24. Often maligned by the press and certain sectors of the public, the youth have been actively trying to share their side of the story and change the negative perceptions about their activity. Although their slogan is "Bikes Up, Guns Down," they are often mis-identified and policed as if they were a gang with violent intentions.

 

With a grease stained heart,

Patrick Goguen

Shop Manager

Worcester Earn-A-Bike

 

 

 

____________________________________

The ThinkTank mailing List

Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org

____________________________________

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--
Heather Nugen
She/Her
313-848-2102