The need to win an argument/debate/persuade the older male, may be a personal issue that needs looking at.

As far as earn a bike v. Giving bikes away, Gift a Bike is a requirement of some earn a bikes.  Do for another as part of the volunteer requirement of earn a bike.  These are reconditioning donated bikes and parts.  The recipient is likely low income, too young, and already determinef to need it, say around holiday time for a major gift.
In the areas, the rich get them anyway, likely not used much, outgrown, and maybe donated or trashed.

The teach a skill part, sometimes helps keep dignity of the recipient.  I am learning and part of a community.

Earn a bike is also a lot about kids and after school activity.  That carries adult supervision requirements which usually means paid staff.  I'm more liking AVOs, all volunteer orgs, less class divide, more equal peers...  Instead of lowly newbie volunteer needs to polish stuff for the egos of those who have been there longer.  Not dignity nor respect ,imho.

Some are anti gang, no skills for legal employment, so gang is the only option. 
The family they don't have is the weakness exploited and fake binds that tie...

Someone(s) to watch thier back in hostile environments.

Law, classes, skills, social supports, etc may not exist as most here may enjoy.  Even the internet in a language that one is born into...

Good luck. Different tools for different jobs/tasks.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 09:03 Cyclista Nicholas <> wrote:
I think right off the bat, giveaway orgs need more resources, both money
and time. 1,000 bikes a year for us would be at least 2,000 hours of
labor and probably would involve throwing away a lot more bikes than we
do; we repair almost every bike that we accept the donation of

Also, there's further money problems downstream for recipients of
giveaways if they've sought out the bikes for reasons of financial
insecurity; when the time comes for maintenance, if they are without the
skill for repair, they often can't afford to pay for it either, and then
we get a situation of garbage bikes, or a secondary community need for
free repair.

Last year our shop had over 300 participants, at least half of whom
returned multiple times. This is far less than 1,000, but we ran it on a
staff of two operating at a collective 30 hours a week, with very
sporadic and unskilled volunteer help. Somebody tell me if my numbers
are way off, but I'm pretty sure giveaway organizations would need to
spend a couple thousand hours a year more or less exclusively
concentrating on fixing bikes for giveaway, and then more if they are
also doing repairs for free. If they aren't doing the latter, I can't
help but wonder how long those bikes last on the streets before they end
up dead and abandoned in a backyard or at a curb.

So obviously this is some spitballing. But my impression is giveaways
are a lot more expensive in general, and optimize for large scale
transportation empowerment rather than a more targeted and multifaceted
empowerment with benefits beyond transportation.

Cyclista Nicholas

On 2018-07-03 01:25, Matt VanSlyke wrote:
> Hi Sylvie,
> We are also in a situation where there is a local giveaway that we are
> frequently confused with. They have been around for about 10 years and
> we
> have been operating for 5. They have a bigger marketing budget and use
> it
> to promote their 1-day, 1,000-bike hand out. We operate year round and
> spend as much time as needed to help people get bikes. That means we
> redistribute fewer bikes but we feel we deliver a better service.
> Although it's a tired cliche (which I acknowledge in conversation)
> people
> who ask "do you give away bikes?" always understand when I say that we
> follow more or less a "teach a person to fish" approach. They also
> understand when I explain why we sell bikes in addition to offering
> earn-a-bike. I tell them that we believe everyone should have some skin
> in
> the game and therefore it would be incongruous to our mission if we
> asked
> for handouts form organizations. We do enjoy and appreciate the
> financial
> support we've received on a few occasions from grantmaking
> organizations
> but we rely on revenue that we generate through hardwork, just like we
> ask
> our customers to do.
> I've had this conversation enough times now that I have it polished
> pretty
> well. I can't recall a single instance where someone has left the
> conversation feeling as if we're doing it wrong, in fact it's usually
> an
> eye-opening experience for them. My theory on why this is the case is
> because I think many people out there are still unfamiliar with the
> social
> enterprise concept and seem to still think that non-profit means "no
> money".
> I applaud the passion and caring of the many bike giveaway programs out
> there. I know several of them that do excellent refurbishing and
> provide
> free bikes to people who truly need and appreciate them. My experience
> locally has been different and that's why we stick to our guns.
> I hope this helps. I'm willing to chat more on the phone if you'd like.
> Feel free to call me if you want.
> -Matt
> *Matt VanSlyke*
> Executive Director
> 315.525.9554 |
> <>
> <>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Paul Fitzgerald <>
> wrote:
>> Sylvie and all,
>> I don't believe I understand the nature of your meeting. Are you
>> attempting to steer the "Second Change" mission or figuring out some
>> type
>> of strategic partnership with a different org?
>> I would like to solicit more opinions or discussion on the
>> 'earn-a-bike'
>> model, though. I've worked for and with organizations which heavily
>> used
>> it, particularly in working with young people. I've been at Working
>> Bikes
>> for about 8 years now, and while we invite all community members to
>> volunteer and earn timeshare 'credits' towards parts for their bike,
>> we
>> also give away more than 1,000 bikes a year locally through our Cycle
>> of
>> Power and Cycle of Peace programs. We've used these donations to make
>> powerful partnerships with many different types of organizations, many
>> of
>> which do not use bicycles as a primary focus of their mission. Adult
>> recipients are invited to volunteer or pay a 'co-pay' or $20 towards
>> the
>> bike, helmet and lock we provide, but most decline.
>> At a certain point, it may be a question of volume, it feels
>> paternalistic
>> to me to tell someone they have to "earn" a resource an organization
>> has
>> the ability to redistribute. I take the question of service vs.
>> charity
>> seriously, but I also believe in the radical redistribution of
>> resources. I
>> don't think it is sustainable for everyone who would benefit from a
>> service
>> to have to learn how that service operates to receive it. There
>> definitely
>> are strong arguments for earn-a-bike, as well as super "CHARITY"
>> <> bike orgs starting up.
>> I've been pondering this discussion as a possible B!B! workshop or
>> roundtable of sorts. I hope you don't feel I've hijacked your thread
>> with
>> hypotheticals, Sylvie, and wish you luck with your meeting.
>> peace n bike grease,
>> Paul
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Therese Kilpatrick <
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi Sylvie,
>>> I don't know your specific circumstances but perhaps your group can
>>> coexist with this gentleman's targeting different recipients. If the
>>> earn-a-bike model is what you want to invest in with your time and
>>> resources and someone else is "giving away" bikes - how do they pay
>>> for the
>>> parts/consumables necessary to restore bikes? Are they also working
>>> in a
>>> non-profit or are they paying for everything themselves? Could they
>>> be
>>> brought into your model if it were explained how there is more than a
>>> bike
>>> that is being "given". I hope that he will be able to listen to why
>>> the
>>> earn-a-bike model has much more social impact through teaching and
>>> the
>>> recipients "owning" the bike through work and how it is a shared
>>> experience. There is also the parable of giving fish versus teaching
>>> someone how to fish...
>>> Good luck and let me know how it went,
>>> Therese Kilpatrick
>>> Project Bike Tech Teacher - Aptos High School
>>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Sylvie Baele <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a
>>>> meeting
>>>> soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes.
>>>> "Second
>>>> Chance Bikes"
>>>> Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the
>>>> bike
>>>> collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and
>>>> sustainable
>>>> long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building
>>>> community...
>>>> Got any resources  (or data) that can help support my/our position?
>>>> I am
>>>> a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a
>>>> younger
>>>> female. He's already mansplained me once before.
>>>> Bikes!
>>>> Sylvie Baele
>>>> *"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness
>>>> depends
>>>> more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of
>>>> those
>>>> events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
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>> --
>> Paul Fitzgerald
>> General Manager, Working Bikes
>> Pronouns <>: him, his,
>> he
>> 2434 S. Western, Chicago, IL 60608
>> 773-847-5440
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> Store Hours:  Wed, Thurs, Fri- 11am-7pm
>>                        Sat  -    10am-6pm
>>                        Sun - 11am-4pm
>> Volunteer Hours: Tues- 5-9pm
>>                             Wed- 12-5pm
>>                             Sat- 12-5pm
>> WTF! Night is every Thursday 5-9pm. It is a volunteer mechanics night
>> exclusively for Women and people who are Transgendered or Gender
>> Non-Conforming.
>> “El socialismo puede llegar solo en la bicicleta."
>> "Socialism can only arrive by bicycle."
>> -José Antonio Viera Gallo,  Assistant Secretary of Justice in the
>> government of Salvador Allende
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