Question!
What the heck does everybody's shop do with fancy items of special worth to collectors? For example... perhaps you come upon a donation of half a dozen 70s unused campi sidepull break sets. Your stock of breaks is full, so throwing them in the bin or selling them for 5$ or shlepping them on a Roadmaster seems like a waste. Is it ethically ok for a non-profit to occasionally indulge collectors as a source of surplus income? What about legally for a 501c3? Is it necessary to launder them through a "buyer" who sells them at profit and donates the difference?
Erik
HECK NO!!!
You sell them as you see fit. Nonprofit means you can't enrich your self, but your organization is supposed to make a profit In this economy that is becoming easier all the time -at least at the Bicycle Kitchen that is the case.
roll on
Jim
Erik Stockmeier estockme@gmail.com wrote: Question!
What the heck does everybody's shop do with fancy items of special worth to collectors? For example... perhaps you come upon a donation of half a dozen 70s unused campi sidepull break sets. Your stock of breaks is full, so throwing them in the bin or selling them for 5$ or shlepping them on a Roadmaster seems like a waste. Is it ethically ok for a non-profit to occasionally indulge collectors as a source of surplus income? What about legally for a 501c3? Is it necessary to launder them through a "buyer" who sells them at profit and donates the difference?
Erik _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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Yes sell the stuff! And sell it at market value. Use the money to make your shop better.
Rich Community Cycles
james blesdoe wrote:
Our collective is currently swamped with old cruisers, that may well be worth a ton of dough. I've just been telling collectors to quote us a fair price (especially after we explain our program) and drop some cash in the donation jar.
We do save some functional parts and mark them up to bring in some cash, but we never, ever haggle.
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Rich Points rich@richpoints.com wrote:
Thank yo man, you seem to understand how this works. I you have
profitable items, sell them at what you want. Otherwise, name a
price and let the masses indulge in your success. Let them know. We
can all benefit from riding and people that help the whole ordeal are
saints to me, man. You know you are doing so much for others. Give
me a shout! 765-418-1272, if you want to help the biking community
more, I'm sure I can help you out.
Brent
On May 7, 2008, at 5:10 PM, james blesdoe wrote:
If you want to indulge in profit, I hear you too. Make your
classifieds intellectual to me, and I'll try to make them open for
fair trade. Let me know. Thank you for helping out the community,
even for individuals who are as accomplished as some. Thank you
Brent Bohs
On May 7, 2008, at 10:58 PM, Brent Bohs wrote:
we have a special display for nicer parts that we want a larger donation for. we have a number of parts hounds that come to our shop to see what new goodies we have. selling parts like this really helps us out financially and lets us have more wiggle room when it comes to people not having very much money to donate for the bicycle that they fix up in our shop. plus, our mechanics can benefit from these parts by donating to their own coop and getting parts for much less than they would at a LBS.
With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mo...
Income from sales is usually not tax exempt income - unlike donations - so that may complicate things. and it is a bit dicey to give something to someone and then have them give a 'donation' in return. That said, usually states have a level below which you don't have to file sales tax. In VA, I believe its $10,000 a year. therefore, If you don't sell over $10,000, you don't need a license to sell stuff and don't need to file. If you do sell over, you need to both register to sell stuff (can still be a non-rpofit), and to file monthly to pay sales tax. Could be a little off on this, but I think this is the gist.
- colin
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Justin Pogge xecax@hotmail.com wrote:
Colin's experience is similar to ours. Because our nonprofit status comes from another organization that we're part of, our income is combined with theirs in deciding whether we cross that limit. We do cross it and pay sales tax on all our sales. Being a non-profit means that the organization isn't owned privately or publicly by folks who make a share of the organization's profit - a non profit is still free to pay its employees and charge as much as the market will bear for its goods/services.
From the IRS website, the requirements for tax exemption are at:
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html
The bit that says what a 501(c)(3) may actually _do_ is below:
The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.
There's also a section that says you're not allowed to 'inure' (pay) people associated with the organization to excess. So, if you're selling dura-ace brakes on ebay for as much as you can, but using the money to pay your volunteers for their time at a reasonable rate and improve you're shop (both activities being part of your 'charitable purpose') then you're all set.
Stuart
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Colin Dixon, Phoenix Bikes colin.phoenixbikes@gmail.com wrote:
I am not sure on the legality for 501c3s, but at least ethically there should be no problem. No one is making a profit off the additional income. Hell, we are lucky to ever be out of the red as it is most of the time. If you have something that you have that you can sell at a premium in order to help pay rent and utilities or fund various programs, by god do it. That is where most of the 'income' of most groups go to anyway. And as someone who has been used to working with negative profit groups, I can appreciate the idea of less money coming out of my pocket. Just consider it an easier way to keep the program afloat. anyone have the inside scoop on legalities?
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Erik Stockmeier estockme@gmail.com wrote:
IANAL and all that, but it's my understanding that as a non-profit, you can sell whatever you want. as long as selling stuff isn't part of your main mission, or it doesn't conflict with that mission, then it's all good...
humane society can sell mugs and sweatshirts, but not dogs. red cross can sell bookmarks and keychains, but not blood.
by "sell", i don't mean charge for. each of the examples above has fees associated with their services, but they don't turn a profit on it, or else it would conflict with their doing their mission, and create a situation where that's the main goal of the group is to earn money...etc.
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:45 PM, ronald ferrucci ronald.ferrucci@gmail.com wrote:
Hey all--
Yes, you can sell stuff and make huge wads of money on it and still be a 501(c)(3)-- but the profits have to go back to the corporation, not into the pockets of the board of directors. Non-profit means you don't have shareholders and you don't distribute earnings. In the for-profit world, you calculate how much money you made and then decide what portion of that profit to distribute to shareholders. In the non-profit world, it has to go back to your corporation and mission somehow. (That doesn't mean you never get to raise salaries when you start making more, it just means you can't distribute profits.)
All this is general info and subject to lots of weird exceptions, but when it comes to selling of your high-end Italian parts to collectors you are going to be just fine.
Erik Ryberg
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
I think we need to be carful here. The Hummain society can sell any thing dogs and/or mugs. Dogs go to sopport their mission and are untaxed. Mugs are unrelated bussines (do not support their mission) and therefore are taxable!!!
some help here from the LAW guys ???
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote: IANAL and all that, but it's my understanding that as a non-profit, you can sell whatever you want. as long as selling stuff isn't part of your main mission, or it doesn't conflict with that mission, then it's all good...
humane society can sell mugs and sweatshirts, but not dogs. red cross can sell bookmarks and keychains, but not blood.
by "sell", i don't mean charge for. each of the examples above has fees associated with their services, but they don't turn a profit on it, or else it would conflict with their doing their mission, and create a situation where that's the main goal of the group is to earn money...etc.
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:45 PM, ronald ferrucci ronald.ferrucci@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure on the legality for 501c3s, but at least ethically there should be no problem. No one is making a profit off the additional income. Hell, we are lucky to ever be out of the red as it is most of the time. If you have something that you have that you can sell at a premium in order to help pay rent and utilities or fund various programs, by god do it. That is where most of the 'income' of most groups go to anyway. And as someone who has been used to working with negative profit groups, I can appreciate the idea of less money coming out of my pocket. Just consider it an easier way to keep the program afloat. anyone have the inside scoop on legalities?
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Erik Stockmeier estockme@gmail.com wrote:
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I think you are confusing paying sales tax vs. paying tax on your
income. Tax exempt status does not exempt you from sales tax.
- Chris
On May 7, 2008, at 4:06 PM, james blesdoe jamesbleds0e@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 5:06 PM, james blesdoe jamesbleds0e@yahoo.com wrote:
I think we need to be carful here.
hey now. there's no need to get ugly...
On 5/7/08, veganboyjosh@gmail.com veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
hey now, there's NO need to claim Jim is getting ulgy...
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Gern Blanston getgern@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, we must be tolerant. We are all carful from time to time. It's hard to avoid riding in cars altogether.
Dave Bourgeois Bici Centro of Santa Barbara
Ebay baby
it's making money for the wonderful things we do. Community Cycles takes in anything bike related and sometimes we get collectable sexy items - these are sold on ebay and sold at lower prices to supporting members and good friends of the shop otherwise.
Make the best use of all things donated- gotta survive and keep the doors open.
We also stockpile sexy parts for Veloswap in Denver which is a huge fundraiser for community cycles - you could save some items and have a vintage bike/bike part sale at your shop- all the bike geeks will come! advertise it on craigs etc locally.
we dont enjoy so much making these parts available to highest bidder with most cacs - but we love staying open- Ebay has saved us a few times!!
Gary
If it was a problem, eBay wouldn't have a special account just for non-profits as direct sellers.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/nonprofit.html http://www.missionfish.org/
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Erik Stockmeier estockme@gmail.com wrote:
participants (16)
-
Brent Bohs -
Chris Dougherty -
Colin Dixon, Phoenix Bikes -
Dave Bourgeois -
Erik Ryberg -
Erik Stockmeier -
Gary Gingras -
Gern Blanston -
james blesdoe -
Jonathan Morrison -
Justin Pogge -
Peter Morsch -
Rich Points -
ronald ferrucci -
Stuart O Anderson -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com