Good stuff, thanks for sharing. In response to Josh, there is never just one person working with kids without anyone else is around. We also don't let anyone that we don't know/trust work with kids, especially because we try to teach them to do it themselves even if they are very young.

In response to Clifford: *"Issue: Kids working on bikes that aren't remotely safe (i.e., they've come in to patch a flat on a majorly dented aluminum frame mountain bike with its brakes _removed_)* *Resolution: No bikes are allowed to leave the shop until they are safe, even if it means taking a hit on the shop's end to equip them with brakes."*

We've pretty much taken the stance that if a kid leaves with one functional brake that is good enough. We try to get them completely hooked up, but if they come in 15 minutes before close, we won't be holding their bike hostage until it's fixed. They're told to come in the next time we're open to get another brake hooked up.

*Issue: Kids arriving @ the shop who are much too young (10 and under) to care about (or able to torque!) the mechanics of their bike. (i.e., they just want to ride something)* *Resolution: This is tough -- we don't want to demand that they have a parent/guardian present to come to the shop because, if actually enforced in this neighbourhood, we would never see _any_ of these kids. Most of the time our mechanics are busy helping members & not able to drop everything to supervise, step-by-step, a kid working on overhauling a BB or something. * *We've suggested that they come with an older sibling or something, but this is still an unsatisfactory situation.* *The best thing we've been able to come up with is getting the kid (everyone under 16) to have their parent sign the waiver that we get all members to sign. This at least lets the parent know that the kid is out there, and then we (hypothetically) have their phone number for when/if the kid steals tools...*

Kids that are really young and unable to physically perform repairs are helped, but instructed as to what the mechanic is doing. This is also the case when there are a million kids outside with repairs and you don't have time to teach a kid how to adjust hub cones. It's a 2 minute fix or a half hour instruction and sometimes it's better to help more kids have safer bikes than to hastily teach a kid something that may not even be remembered.

*Issue: Kids offering to "volunteer"; but really just cause havoc. This was a difficult situation with one kid in particular. He has a good heart & a not-good home life, so he wanted to hang out at the shop and "work" for us. Problem was that he was relentlessly attention seeking (see home life), and wouldn't pay attention or follow through on any tasks we tried to give him. He was really disruptive when new members came down. We had numerous chats with him, but ultimately nothing changed. Eventually I had to come down hard and ask him to leave. * *Resolution: We've resolved to only allow kids with these kinds of interests to show up _one_ day out of the three that we're open; where they are then allowed to spend time doing some organizational etc tasks we've set up for the day. They are _not_ allowed to work on bikes until they've shown an ongoing commitment to the shop & a legitimate commitment to learning. * *We also have a "you're only here if you're gonna volunteer" rule; where, if there's nothing to do, they can't just hang out (because this inevitably leads to grabbing random bikes and crashing them into walls/bikes/members etc. ...The big workshop is a blessing & a curse).*

We had a lot of kids at first offering to volunteer. We generally don't have enough staff to supervise them and they usually don't have the attention span to follow instructions or a task through to completion. I want to "volunteer" means "i want to walk around the shop and look at things". Our policy is usually if kids aren't working on a bike, they have to go outside, and no one under 18 is allowed in the main workshop (physically separated from the "kids" space). This greatly improves supervision and lets one or two volunteers work with kids while the normal shop with adults still functions smoothly. I'd suggest marking off with paint on the floor, a space where kids are allowed and where they aren't to curb some of the rambunctious business.

*Issue: Kids stealing & wrecking tools* *Resolution: Any expensive tools or delicate repairs (i.e., chainbreaks) are ALWAYS used under supervision. We are generally aware of who was using tool X the day it went missing; so we can use the waiver form phone numbers to get them back.* *Our wednesday nights are a sort of free-for-all, where non-members & kids can come down for free to work on their bikes. This gives us some leverage when we're talking to surly/klepto youth -- I say something like "why bother stealing the tool when you know you can always come down for free on wednesdays? It'll always be here!"*

We haven't had much problem with kids stealing tools, although a few have been broken by mistreatment. I've accepted that we will lose some tools from time to time, and yes, close supervision helps to cut back on breakage. We also have a specific tool kit that only kids are allowed to use, that way we can keep better track when things go missing (and see what kids were there that day). We recovered a really nice axle wrench by saying "weren't you using the axle wrench on thursday?". and the kid replies "oh yeah, i accidently took it home" and brought back that day. Maybe he never would have returned it if we hadn't said something or remembered that he was using it that day.

One issue that we had was kids saying to an inexperienced volunteer: "i left my bike here the other day, can i go inside and get it", then trying to pick a bike from inside and say it's theirs. The simple solution to that is a policy that we will not hold bikes in the shop under any circumstances.

I would also be curious what everyone else does when a kid comes in with nothing but a frame and wants to build it up. Currently we help them out if time permits and if we can spare parts, wheels &c for it.

Another good idea is to let kids know that their bike may not get finished that very day. Some of them get very put-off when we aren't able to get their bike done before closing time and it helps to let them know ahead of time.

Sorry for the ramble, good day, Brian

Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19801

Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00

Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Clifford McCarten < director@communitybikeshop.org> wrote:

This is a great topic, one that we could definitely use advice on.

Our shop (like many are, I'm sure) is in a fairly rough section of town. High density, low-income housing=lots of deadbeat parents = lots of surly kids with nothing to do. The kids end up coming down and hanging out, sometimes working on their bikes, sometimes "volunteering"; but more often than not creating... challenges... for the actual volunteers. The other factor is the arrangement of our shop. We're in a 2000 square foot church basement, with only about 1/4 of it taken up with workstations & bike storage. The rest is a wide-open concrete floor - a dreamland for rambunctious kids who run down and grab bikes, covering the floor with skid marks & crashing into things. As a result, our policies undergo trial-by-fire tests & revisions very quickly. Since this is our first year of being formally established, we're still working out how the shop can be a productive space for the kids _without_ it being overrun/taken advantage of/creating unsafe conditions.

Some things we've faced: *Issue*: Kids working on bikes that aren't remotely safe (i.e., they've come in to patch a flat on a majorly dented aluminum frame mountain bike with its brakes _removed_) *Resolution*: No bikes are allowed to leave the shop until they are safe, even if it means taking a hit on the shop's end to equip them with brakes.

*Issue*: Kids arriving @ the shop who are much too young (10 and under) to care about (or able to torque!) the mechanics of their bike. (i.e., they just want to ride something) *Resolution*: This is tough -- we don't want to demand that they have a parent/guardian present to come to the shop because, if actually enforced in this neighbourhood, we would never see _any_ of these kids. Most of the time our mechanics are busy helping members & not able to drop everything to supervise, step-by-step, a kid working on overhauling a BB or something. We've suggested that they come with an older sibling or something, but this is still an unsatisfactory situation. The best thing we've been able to come up with is getting the kid (everyone under 16) to have their parent sign the waiver that we get all members to sign. This at least lets the parent know that the kid is out there, and then we (hypothetically) have their phone number for when/if the kid steals tools...

*Issue: *Kids offering to "volunteer"; but really just cause havoc. This was a difficult situation with one kid in particular. He has a good heart & a not-good home life, so he wanted to hang out at the shop and "work" for us. Problem was that he was relentlessly attention seeking (see home life), and wouldn't pay attention or follow through on any tasks we tried to give him. He was really disruptive when new members came down. We had numerous chats with him, but ultimately nothing changed. Eventually I had to come down hard and ask him to leave. *Resolution:* We've resolved to only allow kids with these kinds of interests to show up _one_ day out of the three that we're open; where they are then allowed to spend time doing some organizational etc tasks we've set up for the day. They are _not_ allowed to work on bikes until they've shown an ongoing commitment to the shop & a legitimate commitment to learning. We also have a "you're only here if you're gonna volunteer" rule; where, if there's nothing to do, they can't just hang out (because this inevitably leads to grabbing random bikes and crashing them into walls/bikes/members etc. ...The big workshop is a blessing & a curse).

*Issue*: Kids stealing & wrecking tools *Resolution*: Any expensive tools or delicate repairs (i.e., chainbreaks) are ALWAYS used under supervision. We are generally aware of who was using tool X the day it went missing; so we can use the waiver form phone numbers to get them back. Our wednesday nights are a sort of free-for-all, where non-members & kids can come down for free to work on their bikes. This gives us some leverage when we're talking to surly/klepto youth -- I say something like "why bother stealing the tool when you know you can always come down for free on wednesdays? It'll always be here!"

Not a comprehensive list, and I really look forward to seeing what others have come up with!

Cheers, Clifford McCarten Director, B!ke: The Peterborough Community Bike Shop 400 Wolfe St Peterborough, Ontario (705) 745-2103 http://www.communitybikeshop.org

On 16-Jan-09, at 4:09 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. your org's policy on working with kids? (veganboyjosh@gmail.com)

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Message: 1 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:22:30 -0700 From: veganboyjosh@gmail.com Subject: [TheThinkTank] your org's policy on working with kids? To: The Think Tank thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Message-ID: 53e5a1720901152122w1c040b10xcb8e9c8ccc958960@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

we're hard at work on Community Cycles' shop manual, and we're wondering if any of you have any formal policies for shop volunteers and/or staff that you'd feel like sharing. i'm imagining something to the effect of "at least two staff must be present when kids are around..." or something like that.

on a somewhat related note, have any of you had any experience with someone--staff, volunteer, customer, etc--being inappropriate around kids, (aside from normal bad language..) that you had to deal with a parent for? i'd be interested in hearing about that experience...

thanks!

josh.