I'll apologize up front for the large amount of exposition to come. If you'd prefer to thin-slice, my question is this: What conflicts have other collectives encountered with "shade tree" mechanics and other unofficial LBS's, and what are reasonable steps to take to avoid unnecessary competition with them?
Hi, this is Joel Gillespie from The Bike Project of Urbana-Champaign (http://www.thebikeproject.org) in Illinois. We've recently entered into a Facility Use Agreement with the University of Illinois to collaborate with the U of I to open an on-campus location for our cooperative, to be known as the Campus Bike Project (clever, right?).
A student group funded by an optional student sustainability fee gave us a grant to convert an old garage into a shop, and the university is allowing us to use the space rent- and utility-free (at least for the first year), and they're paying a 20-hour-per-week employee (me) out of the facilities budget.
In return, we're doing basically the same things we already do at our original location -- assist with member repairs and build-a-bikes, refurbish and sell or donate used bikes, and sell a few very low-end, consumable or safety parts like tires, tubes, helmets, locks and lights. Our collective has an ongoing relationship with the U of I parking department where they give us the abandoned bikes from the previous school year (this was something that they approached us about, not something we sought).
This new location has been the last straw for one of our erstwhile volunteer staffers, who operates a used-bike sales, frame painting, and bike repair business out of his house. He's made some noise on the local bike listservs and has been accusing us of some pretty nasty things like misusing our nonprofit status and has threatening an FBI investigation, etc., but I guess that's not really the point of my question. His view is that we're unfairly competing with him because we accept grants and get benefits from working with the university.
The most reasonable part of his argument is that we're unfairly competing with his business since we sell repaired bikes to non-members, and we also don't have the best membership tracking system, which has probably led to non-members taking advantage of multiple unpaid visits for repair help. We have a "first visit free" policy for use of the shop and tools, after which you have to buy a membership to use the space -- $25 per yr for students, $40 per yr for non-students. Those points have some merit, and we're taking steps to make things more member-centric. We're also going to have very visible maps and handouts showing locations and contact info of LBS's.
So, I guess what I'm asking, is that enough? Does what we're doing sound unreasonable? We don't want to bend over backwards to please someone just because they're complaining, but at the same time, we want to be a good neighbor to folks trying to make a decent living. Thanks in advance for your time and insights.
Joel Gillespie The Bike Project of Urbana-Champaign
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Dear Joel,
I don't usually chip in much to this list, but I think this is an area where NBW is doing pretty well. I also want to do what YOU just did regarding one of our local higher education providers, but that's another story I'd like talk about. (We are working with Temple in Philly, but we need to get something going with the University of Pennsylvania like you have.)
I think we do better with bike shops because we are a youth program. If you do a youth program it's clear that you are doing something other than just providing a place that is an alternative to a bike shop. I don't know if you work with kids, but making that part of the mission will get more people on board. (NBW went in the other direction, starting with a youth program and then collaborating with an adult coop) Likewise, if it's clear that it's a place where people can work on their own bikes rather than a conventional bike shop then I think people understand that they don't want the person who is using your facility coming over to their shop and bugging them to borrow a cone wrench. In that sense you can be sure that you are doing shops a favor!
As for selling bikes, we have had people ask us not to sell bikes too cheap, and we have complied. We do sell "as is" bikes cheap, but we don't undercut shops with bikes that have been worked on. We are careful not to do this. Like you we also send people to shops CONSTANTLY and tell patrons to make sure that shops know we sent them.
Another mollifying tactic is that we don't sell high mark-up staples such as locks and inner tubes cheaply (our tubes are the highest priced in Philly) or at all (locks) In fact we don sell any new accessories out of the coop location. Now, we are starting a more conventional retail operation but it includes a partnership with a local bike shop, and we are going to be careful not to compete directly with them. For instance, we are selling used bikes, they only sell new. We are specifically marketing to neighborhood residents, where they are targeting college students as customers etc. It sounds like the person objecting to your operation is also selling used bikes so you have more of a problem there.
Of course it may be easier here in Philly because things are really booming. But I dare say there's going to be hints of that everywhere, so perhaps your adversary will end up with so much work anyway.
BTW, I'm sure the FBI doesn't have time for this stuff. The IRS might, but I doubt it, and as long as your income is mission-related you are allowed to sell things. (as for local laws I don't know, but at NBW we do pay local and state sales tax and have a Philly business license) Obviously if someone is complaining about you it would be best to make sure that or the equivalent in your municipality is in order.
Hope this all works out. I feel bad that someone is up in arms about a bike coop. I think that there's a rising tide right now that can float a lot of boats.
Andy
Joel Gillespie wrote:
/I'll apologize up front for the large amount of exposition to come. If you'd prefer to thin-slice, my question is this: What conflicts have other collectives encountered with "shade tree" mechanics and other unofficial LBS's, and what are reasonable steps to take to avoid unnecessary competition with them?/
I worry about the folks that don't have a proper business license or
the accountability that comes with it. Eventually they end up selling
something stolen and they get a reputation for it. At least that has
happened in SLC a few times.
We love it when there are more people selling used bikes, as long as
it is on the up and up. We have a great working relationship with
those that do.
We have one guy who is legal, has a home occupation business permit
for a bike shop, and we send him lots of work. He sends folks to us
to. Our competitors are golf and the tv, not each other.
If I could suggest anything it would be to make sure what you are
doing is legal, ignore and don't react to rumors, they just make the
folks that spread them look bad and paranoid. That is a self
correcting issue.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org
On Mar 31, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Joel Gillespie joelgillian@hotmail.com
wrote:
I'll apologize up front for the large amount of exposition to come.
If you'd prefer to thin-slice, my question is this: What conflicts
have other collectives encountered with "shade tree" mechanics and
other unofficial LBS's, and what are reasonable steps to take to
avoid unnecessary competition with them?Hi, this is Joel Gillespie from The Bike Project of Urbana-Champaign
(http://www.thebikeproject.org) in Illinois. We've recently entered
into a Facility Use Agreement with the University of Illinois to
collaborate with the U of I to open an on-campus location for our
cooperative, to be known as the Campus Bike Project (clever, right?).A student group funded by an optional student sustainability fee
gave us a grant to convert an old garage into a shop, and the
university is allowing us to use the space rent- and utility-free
(at least for the first year), and they're paying a 20-hour-per-week
employee (me) out of the facilities budget.In return, we're doing basically the same things we already do at
our original location -- assist with member repairs and build-a- bikes, refurbish and sell or donate used bikes, and sell a few very
low-end, consumable or safety parts like tires, tubes, helmets,
locks and lights. Our collective has an ongoing relationship with
the U of I parking department where they give us the abandoned bikes
from the previous school year (this was something that they
approached us about, not something we sought).This new location has been the last straw for one of our erstwhile
volunteer staffers, who operates a used-bike sales, frame painting,
and bike repair business out of his house. He's made some noise on
the local bike listservs and has been accusing us of some pretty
nasty things like misusing our nonprofit status and has threatening
an FBI investigation, etc., but I guess that's not really the point
of my question. His view is that we're unfairly competing with him
because we accept grants and get benefits from working with the
university.The most reasonable part of his argument is that we're unfairly
competing with his business since we sell repaired bikes to non- members, and we also don't have the best membership tracking system,
which has probably led to non-members taking advantage of multiple
unpaid visits for repair help. We have a "first visit free" policy
for use of the shop and tools, after which you have to buy a
membership to use the space -- $25 per yr for students, $40 per yr
for non-students. Those points have some merit, and we're taking
steps to make things more member-centric. We're also going to have
very visible maps and handouts showing locations and contact info of
LBS's.So, I guess what I'm asking, is that enough? Does what we're doing
sound unreasonable? We don't want to bend over backwards to please
someone just because they're complaining, but at the same time, we
want to be a good neighbor to folks trying to make a decent living.
Thanks in advance for your time and insights.Joel Gillespie The Bike Project of Urbana-Champaign
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participants (3)
-
Andy Dyson -
Joel Gillespie -
Jonathan Morrison