Re: [TheThinkTank] Thethinktank Digest, Vol 145, Issue 6

14 Oct 2018 · *"*

      I think it is a confused document.
First, there has to be a balance between groups & individuals.
Second, there does need to be standards.  Standards which can be challenged.
Third, while it is true that standards of values can cause troubles in that they can become dogmatic, there still needs to standards of values within a framework that can allow adjustment.
Fourth, there does have to be elements of "management".  A shop cannot be run successful run over any period of time without rules & management.
Fifth, I am not sure it is "white culture" that is designating certain ways of thinking, as people of color are involved in that construction & its continuation, while there are whites who are for moving onto a new system.
Individuals need power within organizations, there needs to be a framework in which to work.  There cannot be such as, "everyone is allowed~ except 'vehicular cyclists' & 'whites'".  That is only perpetuating a power structure that is supposedly being rejected.
It is time to move on from these restrictive views that have failed & will continue to fail.  Empowerment of the individual & individual dignity cannot be graced unto people from an organization, it can be fostered, encouraged, yes, yet it must, ultimately, come from someone's own core.  This core is not "white" or any other particular color.  To say that is to naturally limit responses, created resistance that would not be there, otherwise, & strains the tenets of any new concept of existence.
Arguments made against any present structures that exist, which one would like to be different, must be much more definably aimed at & not generalized into a general "us versus them".  Cultures are not monolithic, which is part of the point.  To assign a type of thinking or argument to a race is racist.  Again, fighting against the presumable change pushed for.
To over emphasize the power of groups over the individual will cause resistance as many individuals want to be free from such authoritarian concepts.  As well as those who over emphasize the power of the individual without any acknowledgement of any 'collective' leads to isolation, allows oppression in other forms &, too, is a failed path to follow.
Individual empowerment & dignity has something to do with culture & heritage, yet, is still, at heart, a personal matter.  Values are internal, internally taken, can be influenced from without, but, also, internally generated.  However, people, in their souls know what is right & wrong.  To not say so is a cop out to shift responsibility from oneself to "the state", allowing bad behaviour to be excused, leading into a cycle of dysfunction & failure.
Culture, thought, & action cannot be changed positively unless these factors are considered.
~Robert Rands (Blackcatprowl)

On Sat, 10/13/18,  thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org wrote:
Subject: Thethinktank Digest, Vol 145, Issue 6
 To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
 Date: Saturday, October 13, 2018, 4:04 PM
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: white supremacy culture
 (Cyclista Nicholas)
    2. Re: white supremacy culture
 (Cyclista Nicholas)
    3. Re: white supremacy culture
 (Judith Feist)
    4. Re: white supremacy culture
 (Cyclista Nicholas)
    5. Re: Volunteer Question
 (Cyclista Nicholas)
    6. Re: Softball Question:
 What's in Your Mobile/Pop-up Kit?
       (Cyclista
 Nicholas)
    7. Re: Softball Question:
 What's in Your Mobile/Pop-up Kit?
       (Cyclista
 Nicholas)
    8. Re: Softball Question:
 What's in Your Mobile/Pop-up Kit?
       (Sunny Nestler)

Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 21:15:07 +0000
 From: Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org
 To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
 Cc: The Think Tank thethinktank@bikecollectives.org,
 Matthew McMunn
     matthew@therecyclery.org
 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] white
 supremacy culture
 Message-ID: 7879c869f2c76f8c4bc35b793688a8fc@inventati.org
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Matthew,
I think those observations are on
 target, and that core of authenticity 
 is why I called for a redraft. A
 document that is meant to change and 
 open minds shouldn't instead confuse
 them, require translation, and 
 harbor significant dangers with
 misinterpretation.
Sounds like you're progressing on that
 redraft :)
I'd suggest consulting with Angel and
 Judith during the process though.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-12 14:26, Matthew McMunn
 wrote:
...
Nicholas and All,
I get why the title and headings
might cause you to say so, but upon
...
reading the article I think you
are way off. I may have not read it
...
were it
not for your objection, so I
sincerely thank you for writing to the
...
group.
I find the article very helpful. I
see these many of these cultural
...
dynamics play out at our Chicago
community shop. If we want to be
...
anti-racist, we have to be better
about sharing power. My thoughts on
...
your
response are below.
Best,
-Matthew from The Recyclery
The document is not describing
?white problems.? The intro says as
...
much. It
is describing elements in ?White
supremacy culture.? I admit, that it?s
...
was
confusing for me at first. As I
read the list I came to see that the
...
?culture? the article is
describing, is a grouping of practices,
...
attitudes,
and beliefs that tend to uphold
power dynamics that exclude people of
...
color. This culture works against
racial justice.
...
The ?perfectionism? and
?objectivity? described might be more clearly
...
named as ?so called perfectionism?
and ?so called objectivity.? With
...
?perfectionism,? it is not
describing being careful to get it right.
...
Instead it is a warning about
being overly critical of others work and
...
neglecting to give praise and not
being able to see to take advantage
...
of
their work. With ?objectivity? it
is not an  indictment of the
...
scientific
method. Instead, it is sceptical
of those who hold ?objectivity? as
...
something they alone possess.
Sometimes people and organizations don?t
...
seek
out subjective feedback. They
become unresponsive and deaf to the
...
important
expressions of their stakeholders.
They are not measuring the right
...
things,
but they don?t know it because
they are not valuing subjective
...
experiences.
Do you feel me?
-Matthew
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 2:24 PM
Cyclista Nicholas
...
cyclista@inventati.org
wrote:
...
That document points out a lot
of distinct problems that are important
...
...
to consider. However, with a
few exceptions, it doesn't ground itself
...
...
in
examples of *how or why these
are specifically white problems*.
...
...
Additionally it:
-demonizes some utilitarian
goals, such as perfectionism
...
...
-demonizes goals that are
crucial to wisdom, such as objectivity (not
...
...
to
suggest subjectivity is
inherently detrimental to that process)
...
...
-attaches debatable
characteristics and behaviors to well-known words
...
...
-demonizes goals that are
crucial for struggling nonprofit
...
...
organizations, such as a sense
of urgency
...
...
-contradicts itself by
criticizing lack of transparency in decision
...
...
and
rule making while also
criticizing documentation
...
...
-sets up a condition wherein
one can be accused of white supremacy by
...
...
defending, say, perfectionism
or objectivity
...
...
Many of the issues presented
in the document are clearly important
...
...
ones
we all face, and the gist is
worth meditating on. The document is,
...
...
however, an "oldie"... in that
it needs several redrafts.
...
...
One might even say...
urgently.
...
...
Apologies in advance to
everyone (including Angel) for any flame war
...
...
this might erupt.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-10 15:25, Angel
York wrote:
...
...
...
old but good

...
...
...
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-Volunteer & Outreach
Coordinator-
...
(he/him/his)
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