On Jan 27, 2013 1:50 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I am using a tadpole trike with two wheels in front with disk brakes on each front wheel. I am lucky to be in Chicago land of some of the flattest earth on the planet. With lighter trailers I can use an upright bike with wide slicks and low pressure to get as much rubber to the ground. I do not go fast with over 400 pounds, a upright piano is about 500 pounds, I just take it easy. If you go slow and do not worry about your pace it is much easier to stop. If you get moving fast you are in trouble in so many ways. It would be nice to design brakes for the trailer to use it in places like St. Louis where down hills are part of life. I could figure out a system to have four wheels on the trailer with rim or disk brakes.
My biggest problem was tongue weight and making the trailer balanced.
PS plastic wheels can not take the side loads that metal spoked wheels can.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: John Brown johnsbrown@gmail.com Date: Sat, January 26, 2013 7:42 am To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
What kind of additional braking do you add to haul 350-1200lbs on a trailer?
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:16 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I build trailers without welding at all, some handle up to 1200 pound. I weld other trailers because I can. My thoughts are this, if I am teaching kids to think about designing, engineering, constructing things; I want them to be able to do it in the future with the tools they or their parents may all ready have at home or tool they can buy inexpensively. Some kids may have a welder at home, More kids will have a drill. I built my trailers with a drill and a conduit bender. I normally haul 350 to 400 pounds of gear with it. It can be made small to haul groceries or large to carry a sofa.
We are currently making one to carry 12 bikes and the gear to teach a mobile bicycle safety course at schools.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: Nozomi Ikuta nozomi@affordablebikesrecyclery.com Date: Wed, January 23, 2013 8:28 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
That was my thought exactly -- this is where our thoughts headed when we thought about welding. Cargo trailers, that is!
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
what about building trailers
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: "Bronwyn Potthoff" bpotthoff@gwi.net Date: Fri, January 18, 2013 8:55 am To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Hello, **** We’ve been unsuccessfully trying to secure insurance to initiate a welding/fabrication program through the Community Bicycle Center. Ideally, we’re helping youth develop technical job skills through creating low-rider and chopper bicycles --- but the point of the program is not about bikes, it’s about learning the welding and fabrication skills necessary to create a tricked-out ride. ****
The major obstacle we hear from insurance companies is that we’re creating a high-risk “Frankenstein” product (or “functional art”) that is extremely hard to insure. As soon as we chop a bike, the manufacturer’s warranty is null and void (for good reason!) The actual welding with kids is not a huge issue – it’s what happens if a weld breaks or a kid injures him/herself going off jump with a bike that is not build to handle such stressors. Waivers and disclaimers will only go so far and are not bullet-proof. Because we’re a commercial entity, it’s obviously not covered under any homeowner’s insurance policy (which would be what covers you if you’re helping your nine year-old neighbor weld a sick mutant bike). Also, vocational school insurance functions differently – I checked that too.
I may end up having to change the program so that our “product” is not a bike, but something less risky such as a static sculpture. Regardless, does anybody have any experience with securing insurance for commercial (aka nonprofit) welding work with kids during which a “product” gets fabricated? [Keep in mind, all programs are free AND the product created is also free --- no bill of sale is involved] I’ve touched base with other programs around the country that do similar work, but have not heard back. ****
Thanks!! If it makes more sense to talk through this via phone, my number is 207 282 9700. ****
*Bronwyn Potthoff, Resource Development/Community Relations Director* Community Bicycle Center**** (mailing) P.O. Box 783**** (shop) 284 Hill Street**** Biddeford, Maine 04005**** t: 207.282.9700 www.communitybike.net **** [image: Facebook Round]http://www.facebook.com/CommunityBicycleCenter
*Providing Opportunities for Youth to Grow*
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
I'd really like to see an open source cargo trailer developed. Single bed frames would seem to be an ideal base, easy/free to come by and capable of holding over 200lbs. Could be done as a workshop once or twice a year.
Kevin Dwyer The Bicycle Collective SLC, UT
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Eric Montgomery emontgo1017@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 27, 2013 1:50 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I am using a tadpole trike with two wheels in front with disk brakes on each front wheel. I am lucky to be in Chicago land of some of the flattest earth on the planet. With lighter trailers I can use an upright bike with wide slicks and low pressure to get as much rubber to the ground. I do not go fast with over 400 pounds, a upright piano is about 500 pounds, I just take it easy. If you go slow and do not worry about your pace it is much easier to stop. If you get moving fast you are in trouble in so many ways. It would be nice to design brakes for the trailer to use it in places like St. Louis where down hills are part of life. I could figure out a system to have four wheels on the trailer with rim or disk brakes.
My biggest problem was tongue weight and making the trailer balanced.
PS plastic wheels can not take the side loads that metal spoked wheels can.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: John Brown johnsbrown@gmail.com Date: Sat, January 26, 2013 7:42 am To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
What kind of additional braking do you add to haul 350-1200lbs on a trailer?
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:16 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I build trailers without welding at all, some handle up to 1200 pound. I weld other trailers because I can. My thoughts are this, if I am teaching kids to think about designing, engineering, constructing things; I want them to be able to do it in the future with the tools they or their parents may all ready have at home or tool they can buy inexpensively. Some kids may have a welder at home, More kids will have a drill. I built my trailers with a drill and a conduit bender. I normally haul 350 to 400 pounds of gear with it. It can be made small to haul groceries or large to carry a sofa.
We are currently making one to carry 12 bikes and the gear to teach a mobile bicycle safety course at schools.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: Nozomi Ikuta nozomi@affordablebikesrecyclery.com Date: Wed, January 23, 2013 8:28 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
That was my thought exactly -- this is where our thoughts headed when we thought about welding. Cargo trailers, that is!
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
what about building trailers
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: "Bronwyn Potthoff" bpotthoff@gwi.net Date: Fri, January 18, 2013 8:55 am To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Hello, **** We’ve been unsuccessfully trying to secure insurance to initiate a welding/fabrication program through the Community Bicycle Center. Ideally, we’re helping youth develop technical job skills through creating low-rider and chopper bicycles --- but the point of the program is not about bikes, it’s about learning the welding and fabrication skills necessary to create a tricked-out ride. ****
The major obstacle we hear from insurance companies is that we’re creating a high-risk “Frankenstein” product (or “functional art”) that is extremely hard to insure. As soon as we chop a bike, the manufacturer’s warranty is null and void (for good reason!) The actual welding with kids is not a huge issue – it’s what happens if a weld breaks or a kid injures him/herself going off jump with a bike that is not build to handle such stressors. Waivers and disclaimers will only go so far and are not bullet-proof. Because we’re a commercial entity, it’s obviously not covered under any homeowner’s insurance policy (which would be what covers you if you’re helping your nine year-old neighbor weld a sick mutant bike). Also, vocational school insurance functions differently – I checked that too.
I may end up having to change the program so that our “product” is not a bike, but something less risky such as a static sculpture. Regardless, does anybody have any experience with securing insurance for commercial (aka nonprofit) welding work with kids during which a “product” gets fabricated? [Keep in mind, all programs are free AND the product created is also free --- no bill of sale is involved] I’ve touched base with other programs around the country that do similar work, but have not heard back. ****
Thanks!! If it makes more sense to talk through this via phone, my number is 207 282 9700. ****
*Bronwyn Potthoff, Resource Development/Community Relations Director* Community Bicycle Center**** (mailing) P.O. Box 783**** (shop) 284 Hill Street**** Biddeford, Maine 04005**** t: 207.282.9700 www.communitybike.net **** [image: Facebook Round]http://www.facebook.com/CommunityBicycleCenter
*Providing Opportunities for Youth to Grow*
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Kevin, this is from a thread on the Bike Forum: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/793798-Bike-co-op-working-on-traile...
[/Q] Buy a copy of The Cart Book by William L. Sullivan ISBN 0-8306-0512-6 ~ $17 Amazon or Half.com Tubing cuter ~ $20. Tubing bender ~ $40 parts ~ $30 max and make kits for patrons to assemble and dodge the liability issues. Total investment: <$100 and you are providing people a chance to make something. Cost of cart parts <$30 plus salvaged wheels and no welding. I would bend out the frames as that takes a bit of practice and let them do the assembly. EMT is cheap so the practice isn't expensive and it can be scrounged by dumpster diving. A good hitch can be made from a castor wheel and IIFR the left half of an old school side pull brake. I have the link burred someplace and will edit this when I find it. This one is close but scroll down and look at the mock-up for the double caster: http://www.instructables.com/id/Buil...ailer-coupler/http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-strong-flexible-bicycle-trailer-coupler/
Also ask for a copy of bamboo trailer plans here: http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html and check out their links. Also on Instructables there are a couple there like in The Cart Book.
Drop me a PM and I can help you out with a couple of other things.[/endq]
Search the Think Tank too, I may have posted additional detail in the past, I can't remember. The bed frame is an interesting idea, it could be taken apart and stored. On Instrutables there have been trailers posted and the biggest issue is the hitch. Personally I'd about decided that safest and lowest liability was to buy hitches and sell kits. There is an idea out there, LOL, I still can't remember where now to give proper credit, of using an old center pull left hand arm to go under an axle nut.
Ron
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
I'd really like to see an open source cargo trailer developed. Single bed frames would seem to be an ideal base, easy/free to come by and capable of holding over 200lbs. Could be done as a workshop once or twice a year.
Kevin Dwyer The Bicycle Collective SLC, UT
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Eric Montgomery emontgo1017@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 27, 2013 1:50 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I am using a tadpole trike with two wheels in front with disk brakes on each front wheel. I am lucky to be in Chicago land of some of the flattest earth on the planet. With lighter trailers I can use an upright bike with wide slicks and low pressure to get as much rubber to the ground. I do not go fast with over 400 pounds, a upright piano is about 500 pounds, I just take it easy. If you go slow and do not worry about your pace it is much easier to stop. If you get moving fast you are in trouble in so many ways. It would be nice to design brakes for the trailer to use it in places like St. Louis where down hills are part of life. I could figure out a system to have four wheels on the trailer with rim or disk brakes.
My biggest problem was tongue weight and making the trailer balanced.
PS plastic wheels can not take the side loads that metal spoked wheels can.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: John Brown johnsbrown@gmail.com Date: Sat, January 26, 2013 7:42 am To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
What kind of additional braking do you add to haul 350-1200lbs on a trailer?
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:16 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I build trailers without welding at all, some handle up to 1200 pound. I weld other trailers because I can. My thoughts are this, if I am teaching kids to think about designing, engineering, constructing things; I want them to be able to do it in the future with the tools they or their parents may all ready have at home or tool they can buy inexpensively. Some kids may have a welder at home, More kids will have a drill. I built my trailers with a drill and a conduit bender. I normally haul 350 to 400 pounds of gear with it. It can be made small to haul groceries or large to carry a sofa.
We are currently making one to carry 12 bikes and the gear to teach a mobile bicycle safety course at schools.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: Nozomi Ikuta nozomi@affordablebikesrecyclery.com Date: Wed, January 23, 2013 8:28 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
That was my thought exactly -- this is where our thoughts headed when we thought about welding. Cargo trailers, that is!
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.comwrote:
what about building trailers
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: "Bronwyn Potthoff" bpotthoff@gwi.net Date: Fri, January 18, 2013 8:55 am To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Hello, **** We’ve been unsuccessfully trying to secure insurance to initiate a welding/fabrication program through the Community Bicycle Center. Ideally, we’re helping youth develop technical job skills through creating low-rider and chopper bicycles --- but the point of the program is not about bikes, it’s about learning the welding and fabrication skills necessary to create a tricked-out ride. ****
The major obstacle we hear from insurance companies is that we’re creating a high-risk “Frankenstein” product (or “functional art”) that is extremely hard to insure. As soon as we chop a bike, the manufacturer’s warranty is null and void (for good reason!) The actual welding with kids is not a huge issue – it’s what happens if a weld breaks or a kid injures him/herself going off jump with a bike that is not build to handle such stressors. Waivers and disclaimers will only go so far and are not bullet-proof. Because we’re a commercial entity, it’s obviously not covered under any homeowner’s insurance policy (which would be what covers you if you’re helping your nine year-old neighbor weld a sick mutant bike). Also, vocational school insurance functions differently – I checked that too.
I may end up having to change the program so that our “product” is not a bike, but something less risky such as a static sculpture. Regardless, does anybody have any experience with securing insurance for commercial (aka nonprofit) welding work with kids during which a “product” gets fabricated? [Keep in mind, all programs are free AND the product created is also free --- no bill of sale is involved] I’ve touched base with other programs around the country that do similar work, but have not heard back. ****
Thanks!! If it makes more sense to talk through this via phone, my number is 207 282 9700. ****
*Bronwyn Potthoff, Resource Development/Community Relations Director* Community Bicycle Center**** (mailing) P.O. Box 783**** (shop) 284 Hill Street**** Biddeford, Maine 04005**** t: 207.282.9700 www.communitybike.net **** [image: Facebook Round]http://www.facebook.com/CommunityBicycleCenter
*Providing Opportunities for Youth to Grow*
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Found this for hitch parts: http://www.biketrailershop.com/cart/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hitc...
And I forgot to mention I'v had a cycle-tote since '92 or so and love their hitch. The form of the cycle-tote trailer is very close to the one used by Mr. Sullivan in his book.
Ron
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ron Kellis ron.kellis@velocitycoop.orgwrote:
Kevin, this is from a thread on the Bike Forum:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/793798-Bike-co-op-working-on-traile...
[/Q] Buy a copy of The Cart Book by William L. Sullivan ISBN 0-8306-0512-6 ~ $17 Amazon or Half.com Tubing cuter ~ $20. Tubing bender ~ $40 parts ~ $30 max and make kits for patrons to assemble and dodge the liability issues. Total investment: <$100 and you are providing people a chance to make something. Cost of cart parts <$30 plus salvaged wheels and no welding. I would bend out the frames as that takes a bit of practice and let them do the assembly. EMT is cheap so the practice isn't expensive and it can be scrounged by dumpster diving. A good hitch can be made from a castor wheel and IIFR the left half of an old school side pull brake. I have the link burred someplace and will edit this when I find it. This one is close but scroll down and look at the mock-up for the double caster: http://www.instructables.com/id/Buil...ailer-coupler/http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-strong-flexible-bicycle-trailer-coupler/
Also ask for a copy of bamboo trailer plans here: http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html and check out their links. Also on Instructables there are a couple there like in The Cart Book.
Drop me a PM and I can help you out with a couple of other things.[/endq]
Search the Think Tank too, I may have posted additional detail in the past, I can't remember. The bed frame is an interesting idea, it could be taken apart and stored. On Instrutables there have been trailers posted and the biggest issue is the hitch. Personally I'd about decided that safest and lowest liability was to buy hitches and sell kits. There is an idea out there, LOL, I still can't remember where now to give proper credit, of using an old center pull left hand arm to go under an axle nut.
Ron
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
I'd really like to see an open source cargo trailer developed. Single bed frames would seem to be an ideal base, easy/free to come by and capable of holding over 200lbs. Could be done as a workshop once or twice a year.
Kevin Dwyer The Bicycle Collective SLC, UT
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Eric Montgomery emontgo1017@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 27, 2013 1:50 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I am using a tadpole trike with two wheels in front with disk brakes on each front wheel. I am lucky to be in Chicago land of some of the flattest earth on the planet. With lighter trailers I can use an upright bike with wide slicks and low pressure to get as much rubber to the ground. I do not go fast with over 400 pounds, a upright piano is about 500 pounds, I just take it easy. If you go slow and do not worry about your pace it is much easier to stop. If you get moving fast you are in trouble in so many ways. It would be nice to design brakes for the trailer to use it in places like St. Louis where down hills are part of life. I could figure out a system to have four wheels on the trailer with rim or disk brakes.
My biggest problem was tongue weight and making the trailer balanced.
PS plastic wheels can not take the side loads that metal spoked wheels can.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: John Brown johnsbrown@gmail.com Date: Sat, January 26, 2013 7:42 am To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
What kind of additional braking do you add to haul 350-1200lbs on a trailer?
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:16 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.comwrote:
I build trailers without welding at all, some handle up to 1200 pound. I weld other trailers because I can. My thoughts are this, if I am teaching kids to think about designing, engineering, constructing things; I want them to be able to do it in the future with the tools they or their parents may all ready have at home or tool they can buy inexpensively. Some kids may have a welder at home, More kids will have a drill. I built my trailers with a drill and a conduit bender. I normally haul 350 to 400 pounds of gear with it. It can be made small to haul groceries or large to carry a sofa.
We are currently making one to carry 12 bikes and the gear to teach a mobile bicycle safety course at schools.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: Nozomi Ikuta nozomi@affordablebikesrecyclery.com Date: Wed, January 23, 2013 8:28 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
That was my thought exactly -- this is where our thoughts headed when we thought about welding. Cargo trailers, that is!
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.comwrote:
what about building trailers
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: "Bronwyn Potthoff" bpotthoff@gwi.net Date: Fri, January 18, 2013 8:55 am To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Hello, **** We’ve been unsuccessfully trying to secure insurance to initiate a welding/fabrication program through the Community Bicycle Center. Ideally, we’re helping youth develop technical job skills through creating low-rider and chopper bicycles --- but the point of the program is not about bikes, it’s about learning the welding and fabrication skills necessary to create a tricked-out ride. ****
The major obstacle we hear from insurance companies is that we’re creating a high-risk “Frankenstein” product (or “functional art”) that is extremely hard to insure. As soon as we chop a bike, the manufacturer’s warranty is null and void (for good reason!) The actual welding with kids is not a huge issue – it’s what happens if a weld breaks or a kid injures him/herself going off jump with a bike that is not build to handle such stressors. Waivers and disclaimers will only go so far and are not bullet-proof. Because we’re a commercial entity, it’s obviously not covered under any homeowner’s insurance policy (which would be what covers you if you’re helping your nine year-old neighbor weld a sick mutant bike). Also, vocational school insurance functions differently – I checked that too.
I may end up having to change the program so that our “product” is not a bike, but something less risky such as a static sculpture. Regardless, does anybody have any experience with securing insurance for commercial (aka nonprofit) welding work with kids during which a “product” gets fabricated? [Keep in mind, all programs are free AND the product created is also free --- no bill of sale is involved] I’ve touched base with other programs around the country that do similar work, but have not heard back. ****
Thanks!! If it makes more sense to talk through this via phone, my number is 207 282 9700. ****
*Bronwyn Potthoff, Resource Development/Community Relations Director* Community Bicycle Center**** (mailing) P.O. Box 783**** (shop) 284 Hill Street**** Biddeford, Maine 04005**** t: 207.282.9700 www.communitybike.net **** [image: Facebook Round]http://www.facebook.com/CommunityBicycleCenter
*Providing Opportunities for Youth to Grow*
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
i'm not connected to them, but i have ordered from them several times and will vouch for the awesome customer service of biketrailershop, for whatever that's worth. they sell parts and pieces of hitches that a lot of retailers won't have. most/all retailers i've experienced will only sell you the entire hitch assembly, instead of just one random piece of it.
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Ron Kellis ron.kellis@velocitycoop.orgwrote:
Found this for hitch parts: http://www.biketrailershop.com/cart/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=hitc...
And I forgot to mention I'v had a cycle-tote since '92 or so and love their hitch. The form of the cycle-tote trailer is very close to the one used by Mr. Sullivan in his book.
Ron
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ron Kellis ron.kellis@velocitycoop.orgwrote:
Kevin, this is from a thread on the Bike Forum:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/793798-Bike-co-op-working-on-traile...
[/Q] Buy a copy of The Cart Book by William L. Sullivan ISBN 0-8306-0512-6 ~ $17 Amazon or Half.com Tubing cuter ~ $20. Tubing bender ~ $40 parts ~ $30 max and make kits for patrons to assemble and dodge the liability issues. Total investment: <$100 and you are providing people a chance to make something. Cost of cart parts <$30 plus salvaged wheels and no welding. I would bend out the frames as that takes a bit of practice and let them do the assembly. EMT is cheap so the practice isn't expensive and it can be scrounged by dumpster diving. A good hitch can be made from a castor wheel and IIFR the left half of an old school side pull brake. I have the link burred someplace and will edit this when I find it. This one is close but scroll down and look at the mock-up for the double caster: http://www.instructables.com/id/Buil...ailer-coupler/http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-strong-flexible-bicycle-trailer-coupler/
Also ask for a copy of bamboo trailer plans here: http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html and check out their links. Also on Instructables there are a couple there like in The Cart Book.
Drop me a PM and I can help you out with a couple of other things.[/endq]
Search the Think Tank too, I may have posted additional detail in the past, I can't remember. The bed frame is an interesting idea, it could be taken apart and stored. On Instrutables there have been trailers posted and the biggest issue is the hitch. Personally I'd about decided that safest and lowest liability was to buy hitches and sell kits. There is an idea out there, LOL, I still can't remember where now to give proper credit, of using an old center pull left hand arm to go under an axle nut.
Ron
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
I'd really like to see an open source cargo trailer developed. Single bed frames would seem to be an ideal base, easy/free to come by and capable of holding over 200lbs. Could be done as a workshop once or twice a year.
Kevin Dwyer The Bicycle Collective SLC, UT
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Eric Montgomery emontgo1017@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 27, 2013 1:50 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I am using a tadpole trike with two wheels in front with disk brakes on each front wheel. I am lucky to be in Chicago land of some of the flattest earth on the planet. With lighter trailers I can use an upright bike with wide slicks and low pressure to get as much rubber to the ground. I do not go fast with over 400 pounds, a upright piano is about 500 pounds, I just take it easy. If you go slow and do not worry about your pace it is much easier to stop. If you get moving fast you are in trouble in so many ways. It would be nice to design brakes for the trailer to use it in places like St. Louis where down hills are part of life. I could figure out a system to have four wheels on the trailer with rim or disk brakes.
My biggest problem was tongue weight and making the trailer balanced.
PS plastic wheels can not take the side loads that metal spoked wheels can.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: John Brown johnsbrown@gmail.com Date: Sat, January 26, 2013 7:42 am To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
What kind of additional braking do you add to haul 350-1200lbs on a trailer?
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:16 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.comwrote:
I build trailers without welding at all, some handle up to 1200 pound. I weld other trailers because I can. My thoughts are this, if I am teaching kids to think about designing, engineering, constructing things; I want them to be able to do it in the future with the tools they or their parents may all ready have at home or tool they can buy inexpensively. Some kids may have a welder at home, More kids will have a drill. I built my trailers with a drill and a conduit bender. I normally haul 350 to 400 pounds of gear with it. It can be made small to haul groceries or large to carry a sofa.
We are currently making one to carry 12 bikes and the gear to teach a mobile bicycle safety course at schools.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through bikes From: Nozomi Ikuta nozomi@affordablebikesrecyclery.com Date: Wed, January 23, 2013 8:28 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
That was my thought exactly -- this is where our thoughts headed when we thought about welding. Cargo trailers, that is!
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.comwrote:
> what about building trailers > > Christopher Wallace > Holistic Cycles > 140 Harrison St > Oak Park, IL. 60304 > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [TheThinkTank] Insurance for youth welding programs through > bikes > From: "Bronwyn Potthoff" bpotthoff@gwi.net > Date: Fri, January 18, 2013 8:55 am > To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org > > Hello, **** > We’ve been unsuccessfully trying to secure insurance to initiate a > welding/fabrication program through the Community Bicycle Center. Ideally, > we’re helping youth develop technical job skills through creating low-rider > and chopper bicycles --- but the point of the program is not about bikes, > it’s about learning the welding and fabrication skills necessary to create > a tricked-out ride. **** > ** ** > The major obstacle we hear from insurance companies is that we’re > creating a high-risk “Frankenstein” product (or “functional art”) that is > extremely hard to insure. As soon as we chop a bike, the manufacturer’s > warranty is null and void (for good reason!) The actual welding with kids > is not a huge issue – it’s what happens if a weld breaks or a kid injures > him/herself going off jump with a bike that is not build to handle such > stressors. Waivers and disclaimers will only go so far and are not > bullet-proof. Because we’re a commercial entity, it’s obviously not covered > under any homeowner’s insurance policy (which would be what covers you if > you’re helping your nine year-old neighbor weld a sick mutant bike). Also, > vocational school insurance functions differently – I checked that too. > **** > ** ** > I may end up having to change the program so that our “product” is > not a bike, but something less risky such as a static sculpture. Regardless, > does anybody have any experience with securing insurance for commercial > (aka nonprofit) welding work with kids during which a “product” gets > fabricated? [Keep in mind, all programs are free AND the product > created is also free --- no bill of sale is involved] I’ve touched base > with other programs around the country that do similar work, but have not > heard back. **** > ** ** > Thanks!! If it makes more sense to talk through this via phone, my > number is 207 282 9700. **** > ** ** > *Bronwyn Potthoff, Resource Development/Community Relations Director > * > Community Bicycle Center**** > (mailing) P.O. Box 783**** > (shop) 284 Hill Street**** > Biddeford, Maine 04005**** > t: 207.282.9700 www.communitybike.net **** > [image: Facebook Round]http://www.facebook.com/CommunityBicycleCenter > **** > *Providing Opportunities for Youth to Grow* > ** ** > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to > TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org > To manage your subscription, plase visit: > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... > > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to > TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org > To manage your subscription, plase visit: > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... >
>
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
-
christopher＠holisticcycles.com -
Eric Montgomery -
Kevin Dwyer -
Ron Kellis -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com