alcohol at shop - during meetings - pros and cons?
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
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We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at social functions or 'after hours'
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes renobikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
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--
Wed-Fri 11am-6pm Sat 10am-4pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/
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Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we keep alcohol on the down low.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco wormsign@gmail.com wrote:
We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at social functions or 'after hours'
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes renobikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
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--
Wed-Fri 11am-6pm Sat 10am-4pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/
Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/
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SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from addictions.
sheldon
.............. Sheldon Mains SPOKES Bike Walk Connect www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 Three ways to donate to SPOKES:
- Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations
always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall <mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org
wrote:
Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we keep alcohol on the down low.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco wormsign@gmail.com wrote:
We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at social functions or 'after hours'
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes renobikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
--
Wed-Fri 11am-6pm Sat 10am-4pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/
Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/
Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email list.
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-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
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Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself to a sober environment.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains sheldon@spokesconnect.org wrote:
SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from addictions.
sheldon
.............. Sheldon Mains SPOKES Bike Walk Connect www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 Three ways to donate to SPOKES:
- Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations
always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we keep alcohol on the down low.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco wormsign@gmail.com wrote:
We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at social functions or 'after hours'
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes renobikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
--
Wed-Fri 11am-6pm Sat 10am-4pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/
Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/
Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email list.
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Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone to be focused.
Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my opinion.
On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery < affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote:
Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself to a sober environment.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains <sheldon@spokesconnect.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sheldon@spokesconnect.org');> wrote:
SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from addictions.
sheldon
.............. Sheldon Mains SPOKES Bike Walk Connect www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 Three ways to donate to SPOKES:
- Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations
always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org');> wrote:
Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we keep alcohol on the down low.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wormsign@gmail.com');> wrote:
We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at social functions or 'after hours'
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes <renobikeproject@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','renobikeproject@gmail.com');> wrote:
We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders <analyst@bikefarm.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','analyst@bikefarm.org');> wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
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--
Wed-Fri 11am-6pm Sat 10am-4pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/
Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/
Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email list.
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I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat.
NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte]....
BackusNaurForm forgotten.
Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon*
On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel beer
> decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously to
> having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. We'd
> go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. I
> discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone
> to be focused.
>
> Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my
> opinion.
>
> On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery <
> affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and customers
>> in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a retail
>> shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, apprentices, and
>> other features of community bike shops) also lends itself to a sober
>> environment.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains <sheldon@spokesconnect.org
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special
>>> event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from
>>> addictions.
>>>
>>> sheldon
>>>
>>> ..............
>>> Sheldon Mains
>>> SPOKES Bike Walk Connect
>>> www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect
>>> Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149
>>> Three ways to donate to SPOKES:
>>> 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations
>>> always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall <
>>> mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed.
>>>> We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the
>>>> shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed
>>>> at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we
>>>> keep alcohol on the down low.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also
>>>>> don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at
>>>>> social functions or 'after hours'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes <renobikeproject@gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders <
>>>>>> analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our
>>>>>>> general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during
>>>>>>> open shop hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during
>>>>>>> meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how
>>>>>>> this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in
>>>>>>> time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the
>>>>>>> social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it
>>>>>>> adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and
>>>>>>> regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I
>>>>>>> also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not
>>>>>>> introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated!
>>>>>>> -momoko
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ____________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>>>>>> <a href="
>>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe
>>>>>>> from this list</a>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wed-Fri 11am-6pm
>>>>>> Sat 10am-4pm
>>>>>> 541 E. 4th Street.
>>>>>> Reno, NV 89512
>>>>>> 775.323.4488
>>>>>>
>>>>>> donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ____________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>>>>> <a href="
>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe
>>>>>> from this list</a>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>>>> <a href="
>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe
>>>>> from this list</a>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mike Pattisall
>>>> http://velocitycoop.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________
>>>>
>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>>> <a href="
>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe
>>>> from this list</a>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________
>>>
>>> The ThinkTank mailing List
>>> <a href="
>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe
>>> from this list</a>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> "We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
> The ThinkTank mailing List
> <a href="
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe
> from this list</a>
>
>
>
A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com wrote:
I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat. NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte].... BackusNaurForm forgotten. Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon* On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote: > Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel > beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously > to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. > We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. > I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone > to be focused. > > Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my > opinion. > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery < > affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and >> customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a >> retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, >> apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself >> to a sober environment. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains < >> sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote: >> >>> SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special >>> event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from >>> addictions. >>> >>> sheldon >>> >>> .............. >>> Sheldon Mains >>> SPOKES Bike Walk Connect >>> www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect >>> Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 >>> Three ways to donate to SPOKES: >>> 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations >>> always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < >>> mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. >>>> We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the >>>> shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed >>>> at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we >>>> keep alcohol on the down low. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also >>>>> don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at >>>>> social functions or 'after hours' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes < >>>>> renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders < >>>>>> analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our >>>>>>> general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during >>>>>>> open shop hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during >>>>>>> meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how >>>>>>> this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in >>>>>>> time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the >>>>>>> social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think >>>>>>> it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and >>>>>>> regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I >>>>>>> also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not >>>>>>> introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! >>>>>>> -momoko >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Wed-Fri 11am-6pm >>>>>> Sat 10am-4pm >>>>>> 541 E. 4th Street. >>>>>> Reno, NV 89512 >>>>>> 775.323.4488 >>>>>> >>>>>> donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>> <a href=" >>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>> from this list</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mike Pattisall >>>> http://velocitycoop.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> >>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>> from this list</a> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>> <a href=" >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>> from this list</a> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > "We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone > > > > ____________________________________ > > The ThinkTank mailing List > <a href=" > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe > from this list</a> > > > ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
Wow, wow, and omg wow.... publicly supported, not for profit organizations, and specialist in repurposing materials, bikes and to a lesser degree...people. And you are contemplating the policy of substance use/abuse on site?
(A) Bike coops give a large number of people a new purpose and chance in life. Lets not even get into the reality that a whole lot of those people are "transitioning" from lives of dependency hopefully to independently living substance free. Is there really any room for debate here about substance use in what some might consider a "work space"?
(B) Lets go with that for a minute: work space. Mechanical equipment, machines in many cases (a drill is a machine, a bench grinder is a machine, a truing fork is a machine). And again we are discussing Alcohol on site....regardless of the time of day...I think your insurance companies, and OHSHA, let alone common sense might have an opinion on this matter.
(C) This topic is right up there with questions of "beer pub rides", "winery tours by bike" and "BUI (biking under the influence)" matters. You don't bring beer to a meeting at your local fortune 100 company, why would you bring it to your biking co-op meetings? Do I really have to go on with this?
(D) You know the reasons and the logic, if you don't, just reread the thread.
Best to you all, and thanks for reading.
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Ainsley Naylor needleandthread@gmail.com To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Sent: Thu, Jul 31, 2014 7:58 am Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] alcohol at shop - during meetings - pros and cons?
A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com wrote:
I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not... Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food. I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early. My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues... Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO. Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat.
NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte]....
BackusNaurForm forgotten.
Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon*
On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote:
Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone to be focused.
Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my opinion.
On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery <affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote:
Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself to a sober environment.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains <sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote:
SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from addictions.
sheldon
..............
Sheldon Mains
SPOKES Bike Walk Connect
www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect
Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149
Three ways to donate to SPOKES:
1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall <mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we keep alcohol on the down low.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com> wrote:
We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at social functions or 'after hours'
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes <renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders <analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated!
-momoko
____________________________________
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--
Wed-Fri 11am-6pm
Sat 10am-4pm
541 E. 4th Street.
Reno, NV 89512
775.323.4488
donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/
Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/
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--
Mike Pattisall
http://velocitycoop.org/
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"We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone
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Thanks Ainsley ! Our Community Bikes has exactly the same policy in place.
We've been happy with it. And we had a couple of months of an expirement with our space, where we had no alcohol at all. Ever. People finished repairs diligently so they could go and have an after work beer somewhere.
The check in to crack a beer in the space comes from working with people on the recovery train. Though they are no longer with the organization, but we still keep this in practice.
Alcohol has negatively influenced decision making and collective processes enough that we are happier without it!
Jesse Cooper
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Ainsley Naylor needleandthread@gmail.com wrote:
A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com wrote:
I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat. NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte].... BackusNaurForm forgotten. Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon* On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote: > Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel > beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously > to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. > We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. > I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone > to be focused. > > Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my > opinion. > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery < > affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and >> customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a >> retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, >> apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself >> to a sober environment. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains < >> sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote: >> >>> SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special >>> event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from >>> addictions. >>> >>> sheldon >>> >>> .............. >>> Sheldon Mains >>> SPOKES Bike Walk Connect >>> www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect >>> Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 >>> Three ways to donate to SPOKES: >>> 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations >>> always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < >>> mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is >>>> allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs >>>> in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be >>>> removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the >>>> public we keep alcohol on the down low. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also >>>>> don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at >>>>> social functions or 'after hours' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes < >>>>> renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders < >>>>>> analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our >>>>>>> general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during >>>>>>> open shop hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during >>>>>>> meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how >>>>>>> this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in >>>>>>> time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the >>>>>>> social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think >>>>>>> it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and >>>>>>> regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I >>>>>>> also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not >>>>>>> introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! >>>>>>> -momoko >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Wed-Fri 11am-6pm >>>>>> Sat 10am-4pm >>>>>> 541 E. 4th Street. >>>>>> Reno, NV 89512 >>>>>> 775.323.4488 >>>>>> >>>>>> donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>> <a href=" >>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>> from this list</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mike Pattisall >>>> http://velocitycoop.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> >>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>> from this list</a> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>> <a href=" >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>> from this list</a> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > "We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone > > > > ____________________________________ > > The ThinkTank mailing List > <a href=" > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe > from this list</a> > > > ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
At SBK, we allow alcohol except during hours we are open to the public. We used to allow beer during our monthly meetings but recently (a few months ago) voted to discontinue that practice as it seemed to be making the meetings long and unproductive. A couple of volunteers in particular would pre-drink and then drink during the meeting and not really be able to interact productively in the meeting, repeating things, be obnoxious, not remember what they had signed up for at the meeting afterward, etc. We also use a consensus model so there is already a lot of discussion to get through without getting sidetracked by people going off topic and interrupting the process. Although the policy was mostly put in place to stem the issues with these particular volunteers, the lack of alcohol has seemed to make the meeting much more productive in general and even though one of the volunteers in question chose to no longer participate in the meetings after the policy change, we have kept the policy in place as it has cut our meeting time in half most nights with everyone being more focused and less verbose. Volunteers then get out earlier and often choose to go grab a beer and food together to decompress and process the meeting.
-Shannon Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Jesse Cooper jessecooper0@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Ainsley ! Our Community Bikes has exactly the same policy in place.
We've been happy with it. And we had a couple of months of an expirement with our space, where we had no alcohol at all. Ever. People finished repairs diligently so they could go and have an after work beer somewhere.
The check in to crack a beer in the space comes from working with people on the recovery train. Though they are no longer with the organization, but we still keep this in practice.
Alcohol has negatively influenced decision making and collective processes enough that we are happier without it!
Jesse Cooper
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Ainsley Naylor <needleandthread@gmail.com
wrote:
A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars <danceswithcars@gmail.com
wrote:
I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat. NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte].... BackusNaurForm forgotten. Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon* On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote: > Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel > beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously > to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. > We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. > I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone > to be focused. > > Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my > opinion. > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery < > affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and >> customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a >> retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, >> apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself >> to a sober environment. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains < >> sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote: >> >>> SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special >>> event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from >>> addictions. >>> >>> sheldon >>> >>> .............. >>> Sheldon Mains >>> SPOKES Bike Walk Connect >>> www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect >>> Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 >>> Three ways to donate to SPOKES: >>> 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial >>> donations always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < >>> mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is >>>> allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs >>>> in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be >>>> removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the >>>> public we keep alcohol on the down low. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also >>>>> don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at >>>>> social functions or 'after hours' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes < >>>>> renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders < >>>>>> analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our >>>>>>> general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during >>>>>>> open shop hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during >>>>>>> meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how >>>>>>> this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in >>>>>>> time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the >>>>>>> social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think >>>>>>> it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and >>>>>>> regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I >>>>>>> also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not >>>>>>> introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! >>>>>>> -momoko >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Wed-Fri 11am-6pm >>>>>> Sat 10am-4pm >>>>>> 541 E. 4th Street. >>>>>> Reno, NV 89512 >>>>>> 775.323.4488 >>>>>> >>>>>> donate via paypal: >>>>>> http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>> <a href=" >>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>> from this list</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mike Pattisall >>>> http://velocitycoop.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> >>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>> from this list</a> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>> <a href=" >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>> from this list</a> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > "We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone > > > > ____________________________________ > > The ThinkTank mailing List > <a href=" > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe > from this list</a> > > > ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
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We've never had booze when the shop is open, never at Board meetings, and only at our closed annual Xmas staff party. In my thirteen years here the issue has never even come up for us.
In our very early days we used to have meetings of the (pre-Board) Core Group at a local pub. But some understandably objected at having to buy a drink or snack just to attend a meeting. Then we moved to having it at different homes, and I don't recall booze ever being served then either. Good thing, too, as in those days we were doing a lot of policy development and the meetings could be three hours long. Alcohol consumption would not have improved that situation. :P
Mark Rehder - Coordinator re-Cycles Community Bike Shop http://re-cycles.ca
On 2014-07-31, at 12:31 PM, Shannon Southwood wrote:
At SBK, we allow alcohol except during hours we are open to the public. We used to allow beer during our monthly meetings but recently (a few months ago) voted to discontinue that practice as it seemed to be making the meetings long and unproductive. A couple of volunteers in particular would pre-drink and then drink during the meeting and not really be able to interact productively in the meeting, repeating things, be obnoxious, not remember what they had signed up for at the meeting afterward, etc. We also use a consensus model so there is already a lot of discussion to get through without getting sidetracked by people going off topic and interrupting the process. Although the policy was mostly put in place to stem the issues with these particular volunteers, the lack of alcohol has seemed to make the meeting much more productive in general and even though one of the volunteers in question chose to no longer participate in the meetings after the policy change, we have kept the policy in place as it has cut our meeting time in half most nights with everyone being more focused and less verbose. Volunteers then get out earlier and often choose to go grab a beer and food together to decompress and process the meeting.
-Shannon Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Jesse Cooper jessecooper0@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Ainsley ! Our Community Bikes has exactly the same policy in place.
We've been happy with it. And we had a couple of months of an expirement with our space, where we had no alcohol at all. Ever. People finished repairs diligently so they could go and have an after work beer somewhere.
The check in to crack a beer in the space comes from working with people on the recovery train. Though they are no longer with the organization, but we still keep this in practice.
Alcohol has negatively influenced decision making and collective processes enough that we are happier without it!
Jesse Cooper
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Ainsley Naylor needleandthread@gmail.com wrote: A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com wrote: I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat. NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte].... BackusNaurForm forgotten. Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon* On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote: Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone to be focused. Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my opinion. On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery <affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote: Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself to a sober environment. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains <sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote: SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from addictions. sheldon .............. Sheldon Mains SPOKES Bike Walk Connect www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 Three ways to donate to SPOKES: 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall <mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote: Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we keep alcohol on the down low. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com> wrote: We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at social functions or 'after hours' On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes <renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote: We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders <analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote: Hey all, We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours. I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers? For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool? For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol? The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all. Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko ____________________________________
Hey Momoko, I realize there's some specific questions maybe I can try and address
- Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's
patrons/volunteers? * For concrete examples of affecting shop - Meetings get sidetracked, drawn out, social agreements get hazy, people override each other, etc. - Work orders get sloppy, can affect the quality of the repair, maybe create a dangerous situation ( a neglected cable anchor bolt, not tightened enough on a brake)(axle nut not tight enough)(stem bolt, stem clamp bolt not tight enough, etc)
affecting patron's / volunteers ( and staff) - trigger for those in recovery, and after all, we are inclusive and wanting to be a safe space for all walks and social demograph - heightened or accentuated emotional responses / reactionary tendencies become more pronounced - or the opposite; withdrawal and isolation, - derailed conversations, and or loss of cohesiveness and comprehension - lack of follow through as a result of poor recoding and memory of the meetings / work day
*For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?*
Our social dynamics may have improved now because we retreat to a neutral zone, not the space we collaborate together in, but something like a park to watch a sunset, the water front, the beach, a bike ride, someone's back yard, a house, a pub, a restaurant.. but generally our social becomes anywhere else but our place of work. The shop is extremely busy and can have a general residual vibe of hectic ness and anxiety in some seasons. Hanging out here feels like we need to be productive or occupied. Our socials off sight become much much more relaxed and genuine.. ( wow.. we love each other.. my coworkers are rad! I'm sooooooo lucky)
*For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol* We had discussed this for months from having a beer during meetings, to getting drunk at meetings, and during a repair shift closed to the public and had found HUGE detriment. We talked a lot about it during the transition periods, and there was a lot of back and forth, disagreements, pros and cons.. it was stressful. We went through a transition period where there were people who thought it essential for social lubricant, as a tool to feel more relaxed about opening up and sharing, speaking. Although this did add some degree of boldness, forwardness, for example, it was more likely to create obnoxious and oppressive behavior. We strive to be active listeners, and alcohol impaired the ability to be patient and empathetic in most people.
Ultimately.. it deterred from our collective, it impaired our group's efficiency and collective decision making process and made an unsafe environment for many people, volunteers, customers, whomever..
The only role it serves is as a group activity that is recreational. Only recreational. We can receive parts, fix a flat, or something with one beer.. but otherwise, if alcohol is being used as other than "just a drink" it's because we are partying together without any immediate obligations to the organization or our customers / volunteers / staff / board etc.
Thanks for bringing this up Momoko, it certainly reminds me that there are reasons for all of our policies and happy to have refreshers.
Jesse
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Shannon Southwood < shannon@sacbikekitchen.org> wrote:
At SBK, we allow alcohol except during hours we are open to the public. We used to allow beer during our monthly meetings but recently (a few months ago) voted to discontinue that practice as it seemed to be making the meetings long and unproductive. A couple of volunteers in particular would pre-drink and then drink during the meeting and not really be able to interact productively in the meeting, repeating things, be obnoxious, not remember what they had signed up for at the meeting afterward, etc. We also use a consensus model so there is already a lot of discussion to get through without getting sidetracked by people going off topic and interrupting the process. Although the policy was mostly put in place to stem the issues with these particular volunteers, the lack of alcohol has seemed to make the meeting much more productive in general and even though one of the volunteers in question chose to no longer participate in the meetings after the policy change, we have kept the policy in place as it has cut our meeting time in half most nights with everyone being more focused and less verbose. Volunteers then get out earlier and often choose to go grab a beer and food together to decompress and process the meeting.
-Shannon Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Jesse Cooper jessecooper0@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Ainsley ! Our Community Bikes has exactly the same policy in place.
We've been happy with it. And we had a couple of months of an expirement with our space, where we had no alcohol at all. Ever. People finished repairs diligently so they could go and have an after work beer somewhere.
The check in to crack a beer in the space comes from working with people on the recovery train. Though they are no longer with the organization, but we still keep this in practice.
Alcohol has negatively influenced decision making and collective processes enough that we are happier without it!
Jesse Cooper
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Ainsley Naylor < needleandthread@gmail.com> wrote:
A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars < danceswithcars@gmail.com> wrote:
I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat. NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte].... BackusNaurForm forgotten. Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon* On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote: > Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel > beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously > to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. > We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. > I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone > to be focused. > > Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my > opinion. > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery < > affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and >> customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a >> retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, >> apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself >> to a sober environment. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains < >> sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote: >> >>> SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a >>> special event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering >>> from addictions. >>> >>> sheldon >>> >>> .............. >>> Sheldon Mains >>> SPOKES Bike Walk Connect >>> www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect >>> Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 >>> Three ways to donate to SPOKES: >>> 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial >>> donations always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < >>> mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is >>>> allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs >>>> in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be >>>> removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the >>>> public we keep alcohol on the down low. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we >>>>> also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at >>>>> social functions or 'after hours' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes < >>>>> renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders < >>>>>> analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our >>>>>>> general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during >>>>>>> open shop hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol >>>>>>> during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of >>>>>>> how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference >>>>>>> in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the >>>>>>> social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you >>>>>>> think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and >>>>>>> regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I >>>>>>> also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not >>>>>>> introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! >>>>>>> -momoko >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Wed-Fri 11am-6pm >>>>>> Sat 10am-4pm >>>>>> 541 E. 4th Street. >>>>>> Reno, NV 89512 >>>>>> 775.323.4488 >>>>>> >>>>>> donate via paypal: >>>>>> http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow us on Flickr: >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>> <a href=" >>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>> from this list</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mike Pattisall >>>> http://velocitycoop.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> >>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>> from this list</a> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>> <a href=" >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>> from this list</a> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > "We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone > > > > ____________________________________ > > The ThinkTank mailing List > <a href=" > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe > from this list</a> > > > ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
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Thank you so much for your detailed response. This really helps me see the issue.
Thanks to all for your responses. I can forward these emails to the Bike Farm list serve and have a really productive conversation about the role/effects of alcohol at our meetings.
I appreciate especially the stories, "we did this because... " and the outcomes "now the shop is like ..."
Although I agree with Jonathan about not introducing policy, especially when you could just have a conversation with an individual. The consensus appears to be that alcohol makes meetings less productive and getting rid of/discouraging it provides a safer space.
I personally would be sad to loose the ability to have a beer at the general meeting. I find it makes me more sociable and eager to get stuff done. Where as without it, I have more of a tendency towards frustration and feeling drained after meetings. But I can totally see how it drags on meetings and how if someone who had issues with alcohol came in, it would not feel like an inviting space. I especially like Jessie's point about the lingering energy of the space.
Thank you again, -momoko
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Jesse Cooper jessecooper0@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Momoko, I realize there's some specific questions maybe I can try and address
- Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's
patrons/volunteers? * For concrete examples of affecting shop - Meetings get sidetracked, drawn out, social agreements get hazy, people override each other, etc. - Work orders get sloppy, can affect the quality of the repair, maybe create a dangerous situation ( a neglected cable anchor bolt, not tightened enough on a brake)(axle nut not tight enough)(stem bolt, stem clamp bolt not tight enough, etc)
affecting patron's / volunteers ( and staff) - trigger for those in recovery, and after all, we are inclusive and wanting to be a safe space for all walks and social demograph - heightened or accentuated emotional responses / reactionary tendencies become more pronounced - or the opposite; withdrawal and isolation, - derailed conversations, and or loss of cohesiveness and comprehension - lack of follow through as a result of poor recoding and memory of the meetings / work day
*For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?*
Our social dynamics may have improved now because we retreat to a neutral zone, not the space we collaborate together in, but something like a park to watch a sunset, the water front, the beach, a bike ride, someone's back yard, a house, a pub, a restaurant.. but generally our social becomes anywhere else but our place of work. The shop is extremely busy and can have a general residual vibe of hectic ness and anxiety in some seasons. Hanging out here feels like we need to be productive or occupied. Our socials off sight become much much more relaxed and genuine.. ( wow.. we love each other.. my coworkers are rad! I'm sooooooo lucky)
*For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol* We had discussed this for months from having a beer during meetings, to getting drunk at meetings, and during a repair shift closed to the public and had found HUGE detriment. We talked a lot about it during the transition periods, and there was a lot of back and forth, disagreements, pros and cons.. it was stressful. We went through a transition period where there were people who thought it essential for social lubricant, as a tool to feel more relaxed about opening up and sharing, speaking. Although this did add some degree of boldness, forwardness, for example, it was more likely to create obnoxious and oppressive behavior. We strive to be active listeners, and alcohol impaired the ability to be patient and empathetic in most people.
Ultimately.. it deterred from our collective, it impaired our group's efficiency and collective decision making process and made an unsafe environment for many people, volunteers, customers, whomever..
The only role it serves is as a group activity that is recreational. Only recreational. We can receive parts, fix a flat, or something with one beer.. but otherwise, if alcohol is being used as other than "just a drink" it's because we are partying together without any immediate obligations to the organization or our customers / volunteers / staff / board etc.
Thanks for bringing this up Momoko, it certainly reminds me that there are reasons for all of our policies and happy to have refreshers.
Jesse
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Shannon Southwood < shannon@sacbikekitchen.org> wrote:
At SBK, we allow alcohol except during hours we are open to the public. We used to allow beer during our monthly meetings but recently (a few months ago) voted to discontinue that practice as it seemed to be making the meetings long and unproductive. A couple of volunteers in particular would pre-drink and then drink during the meeting and not really be able to interact productively in the meeting, repeating things, be obnoxious, not remember what they had signed up for at the meeting afterward, etc. We also use a consensus model so there is already a lot of discussion to get through without getting sidetracked by people going off topic and interrupting the process. Although the policy was mostly put in place to stem the issues with these particular volunteers, the lack of alcohol has seemed to make the meeting much more productive in general and even though one of the volunteers in question chose to no longer participate in the meetings after the policy change, we have kept the policy in place as it has cut our meeting time in half most nights with everyone being more focused and less verbose. Volunteers then get out earlier and often choose to go grab a beer and food together to decompress and process the meeting.
-Shannon Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Jesse Cooper jessecooper0@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Ainsley ! Our Community Bikes has exactly the same policy in place.
We've been happy with it. And we had a couple of months of an expirement with our space, where we had no alcohol at all. Ever. People finished repairs diligently so they could go and have an after work beer somewhere.
The check in to crack a beer in the space comes from working with people on the recovery train. Though they are no longer with the organization, but we still keep this in practice.
Alcohol has negatively influenced decision making and collective processes enough that we are happier without it!
Jesse Cooper
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Ainsley Naylor < needleandthread@gmail.com> wrote:
A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars < danceswithcars@gmail.com> wrote:
I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat. NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte].... BackusNaurForm forgotten. Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon* On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote: > Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel > beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously > to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. > We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. > I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone > to be focused. > > Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my > opinion. > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery < > affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and >> customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a >> retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, >> apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself >> to a sober environment. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains < >> sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote: >> >>> SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a >>> special event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering >>> from addictions. >>> >>> sheldon >>> >>> .............. >>> Sheldon Mains >>> SPOKES Bike Walk Connect >>> www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect >>> Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 >>> Three ways to donate to SPOKES: >>> 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial >>> donations always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < >>> mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is >>>> allowed. We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs >>>> in the shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be >>>> removed at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the >>>> public we keep alcohol on the down low. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we >>>>> also don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at >>>>> social functions or 'after hours' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes < >>>>> renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders < >>>>>> analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our >>>>>>> general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during >>>>>>> open shop hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol >>>>>>> during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of >>>>>>> how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference >>>>>>> in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the >>>>>>> social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you >>>>>>> think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces >>>>>>> and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I >>>>>>> also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not >>>>>>> introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! >>>>>>> -momoko >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Wed-Fri 11am-6pm >>>>>> Sat 10am-4pm >>>>>> 541 E. 4th Street. >>>>>> Reno, NV 89512 >>>>>> 775.323.4488 >>>>>> >>>>>> donate via paypal: >>>>>> http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow us on Flickr: >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>> <a href=" >>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>> from this list</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mike Pattisall >>>> http://velocitycoop.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> >>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>> from this list</a> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>> <a href=" >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>> from this list</a> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > "We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone > > > > ____________________________________ > > The ThinkTank mailing List > <a href=" > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe > from this list</a> > > > ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
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We don't drink during any open time were open to the public. If were not,
then we`ll crack a few (inventory, mechanics night, any other core group
time). We also go out after business, because of the social bonding. The
Bike Co-op core volunteers are my second family.
As far as drinking in meetings, I don't recommend it. It prolongs the meeting time and dulls people`s focus.
Best, Leslie A few years ago we had a long, tormented - and never resolved - discussion to create a policy re: alcohol in our space. There were some collective members who felt that being able to drink at Bike Pirates was important for a few reasons, which I will not try to paraphrase here. Essentially what we ended up being able to agree on is that alcohol and other substances are not welcome or safe during any of our operating hours OR times when we are working on bikes - ie. our volunteer-only Bike Build Nights. We used to have beer at Bike Builds regularly, but many of us now feel that does not create a safe space for other volunteers or for mechanical work! So, any time bikes are being worked on - no drinking.
We haven't allowed alcohol at our meetings for quite some time. Our collective meetings are pretty long and intense, and not really social, as there is a lot to discuss since we are consensus-based. Often folks will go out for a beer after the meeting to decompress and catch up. It may happen that there may be a drink or two at after-hours committee meetings when only a few people are around, and are pretty low-key, and we also have community events a few times a month and a volunteer Board Game Night which usually includes alcohol.
What we have agreed on is that any time someone wishes to drink in the space when it might not be expected - i.e. not during a community event which has advertised having alcohol - that folks check-in and ensure that no one will be triggered. This is a fair and compassionate expectation, though I don't think it is always happening.
ainsley (Bike Pirates Toronto)
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:17 AM, DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com wrote:
I wish most places I've encountered were sober, clean and safe [ emotional/ spiritual/... ] spaces, but sadly they are not...
Age range seems to vary, predominantly twentysomething places seem to favor etoh ( keggers, etc) and go out afterwards many times, including events at bars, which have served [ me ] food.
I've been in pseudo"community" where No etoh or expelled quickly policy went into effect and stayed to the end of term instead of leaving early.
My involvement in bike coops, etc has been negatively affected by etoh and other abuse issues...
Age distribution ( client, volunteer, mgmt and community ) and of manglement seem to correlate, IMHO.
Sore subject, actually.
typing impaired by device, so phlat. NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte].... BackusNaurForm forgotten. Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon* On Jul 30, 2014 11:02 PM, "Ryan Kragerud" <rjkragerud@gmail.com> wrote: > Bicycle Longmont allows beer during board meetings. I personally feel > beer decreases the productivity of our meetings beyond measure. Previously > to having our own space for meetings we met at a library so no alcohol. > We'd go out for beers afterward. That scenario built a more cohesive board. > I discourage alcohol during board meetings where you actually need everyone > to be focused. > > Others on our board would probably disagree with me. But this is my > opinion. > > On Wednesday, July 30, 2014, Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery < > affordablebikesrecyclery@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Affordable Bikes is also a sober space, with a lot of staff and >> customers in recovery gravitating to our shop. Of course our structure as a >> retail shop (albeit one with multiple work stands, work credits, >> apprentices, and other features of community bike shops) also lends itself >> to a sober environment. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:28 PM, sheldon mains < >> sheldon@spokesconnect.org> wrote: >> >>> SPOKES is a sober space. No alcohol except if we are having a special >>> event (e.g. a fundraiser). We have some clients who are recovering from >>> addictions. >>> >>> sheldon >>> >>> .............. >>> Sheldon Mains >>> SPOKES Bike Walk Connect >>> www.SpokesConnect.org www.fb.com/SpokesConnect >>> Minneapolis, MN 612/618-7149 >>> Three ways to donate to SPOKES: >>> 1. Volunteer. 2. Donate repairable used bikes. 3. Financial donations >>> always welcome. Check www.SpokesConnect.org for details. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:33 PM, mpattisall < >>> mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Velocity has a volunteers only night when alcohol ( beer) is allowed. >>>> We also have an " Earn of Bike " and other kid oriented programs in the >>>> shop the following day so all evidence ( cans, bottles ) must be removed >>>> at the end of the volunteer night. Anytime we are open to the public we >>>> keep alcohol on the down low. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Vincenzo loco <wormsign@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We only ban alcohol when the shop is open to the public but we also >>>>> don't drink alcohol at the meetings. When it happens it is usually at >>>>> social functions or 'after hours' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Reno Bikes < >>>>> renobikeproject@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We allow alcohol, but only at breakfast meetings. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:26 PM, momoko saunders < >>>>>> analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our >>>>>>> general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during >>>>>>> open shop hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during >>>>>>> meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how >>>>>>> this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in >>>>>>> time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the >>>>>>> social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think >>>>>>> it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and >>>>>>> regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I >>>>>>> also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not >>>>>>> introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! >>>>>>> -momoko >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Wed-Fri 11am-6pm >>>>>> Sat 10am-4pm >>>>>> 541 E. 4th Street. >>>>>> Reno, NV 89512 >>>>>> 775.323.4488 >>>>>> >>>>>> donate via paypal: http://www.renobikeproject.com/index.php/donate/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow us on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/renobikeproject/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>>> <a href=" >>>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>>> from this list</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ____________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>>> <a href=" >>>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>>> from this list</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mike Pattisall >>>> http://velocitycoop.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________ >>>> >>>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>>> from this list</a> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ____________________________________ >>> >>> The ThinkTank mailing List >>> <a href=" >>> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe >>> from this list</a> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > "We all do better when we all do better" - Paul Wellstone > > > > ____________________________________ > > The ThinkTank mailing List > <a href=" > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe > from this list</a> > > > ____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
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One first question I always have is... what is the goal/reason for a policy? (Any policy)
Personally I don't have an alcohol problem. No really, I don't. I swear. But I DO have a licorice problem, I can't stop once I start even after the point of feeling my stomach cry for mercy. Other people can have just one piece, most don't care for it at all and think its gross, but not me -- I am an insatiable fiend.
We are all different, with different problems. It is important to note that, for the most part, this is a non-confrontational crowd. We would rather get along than not. Which also means sometimes we hide behind policy as opposed to having those hard/difficult/challenging/painful/emotional/scary/etc. individual conversations. Conversations that frankly would be better in the long term for the group AND most certainly benefit that individual. But the key is to approach with a genuine caring.
For example, "Jonathan, can I speak to you in private? About licorice? We bring it to the meetings for everyone, but you don't share and eat it all, then spend the rest of the meeting unproductively in the bathroom. It is setting a bad example for everyone else. Is everything ok? I care about you, we all care about you -- and we want to help."
Call me a big hippy, but hugs sometimes work better than new policies. That being said, there does come a point ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number) when groups become too large to be maintain "community", at which point, strong leadership/policy or division is a necessary step. There are also real concerns and laws regarding alcohol and minors, don't be negligent, but most importantly use your judgement and discretion.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Hey all,
We at Bike Farm recently had a proposal to ban alcohol at our general meetings. We already have a strict policy against alcohol during open shop hours.
I'd love to know if other shops have policy around alcohol during meetings or in the shop off hours. Do you have concrete examples of how this effects the shop and it's patrons/volunteers?
For those who do not have alcohol, do you notice an difference in time spent hanging out with other collective members, did it change the social dynamic? How does it affect your volunteer pool?
For those who have alcohol, do you discuss it often? Do you think it adds or deters from your collective? What is the role of alcohol?
The arguments in my mind seem to revolve around safer spaces and regulation. I believe in having as little regulation as possible, but I also respect the need for safer spaces. I wonder if there's a way to not introduce policy while still making an inviting space for all.
Your thoughts and experiences would be appreciated! -momoko
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participants (15)
-
Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery -
Ainsley Naylor -
DancesWithCars -
Jesse Cooper -
Jonathan Morrison -
Leslie Peteya -
Mark Rehder -
mfen651＠aol.com -
momoko saunders -
mpattisall -
Reno Bikes -
Ryan Kragerud -
Shannon Southwood -
sheldon mains -
Vincenzo loco