Geoff,

If you have a lot of bikes to store, putting hooks horizontally into the wall and storing assembled bikes on the wall is a great space saver. There are a lot of wall storage hooks for sale commercially (they are the ones that just hook the front tire, the back tire rests on the wall below it, the bike sits on the wall like spider man) but you can put a bike hook from the hardware store directly into a stud and get the same result for a lot cheaper. You get tire marks on the wall - but we don't care about that :)

If bikes are going to be stripped for parts, consider stripping them as soon as you get them, because older framesets with horizontal dropouts can be hung along an all-thread bar like coats in a closet, and the components when removed and stripped of cables and housings store much more compactly. I personally have an older (meaning smallish) two-car garage, where using these methods I store 40-50 bikes' worth of parts, with plenty of space for two workbenches, two workstands, and to move around.

So the more you can compact things, the more spacious your shop will remain, as long as your compaction systems leave the parts in a browseable state. No matter how much space you have, more is always good.

Magnetic toolboards are also pretty cool. Either get magnetic tool strips from a place like Harbor freight ($5 each) or source a bunch of neodymium magnets and just use sections of sheet metal as tool boards. Pegboard kind of sucks, if I had to go the wood route I'd rather hang tools from carefully considered nails in a piece of plywood.

Also - you're in Australia, so you probably don't need to insulate and this might not be relevant, but I always tell people to make sure the main buildout for the space happens BEFORE YOU START FILLING IT WITH STUFF. There's nothing crappier than doing major work (like insulating) in a space when it is filled literally wall to wall and to the ceiling with crap. Envision the shelving and workbench placement before you start using the space for storage, if at all possible.

If you're able to get Park workstands (or if your other workstands can be configured the same way) consider two clamps per single pole, back to back as it were. This also saves space.

Wheels overhead, as already mentioned. It kind of kills the sense of spaciousness and feels a bit oppressive, especially in work areas, but it often is unavoidably the most efficient means of storage for both wheels and tires. An alternative to consider if you have rights to some space outside of the building and if you are situated in a low-theft area, is to store both of these things outside the building on custom racks - sort of like CDs used to be stored. Just make sure to put a roof above/along the rack to keep rain off the wheels and UV off the tires.

Make sure workstations are relatively shallow. If the bench/table is up against the wall, making it too deep will make reaching across it a pain. A bonus here is that shallow benches are less hogs of space. I generally find stands in the center of the room and boards and workbenches on the wall affords a more intuitive (and social) workflow. Social because people aren't separated from each other and can more easily share tqasks and/or ideas.

If you can, try and create a ratio of one toolboard per workstand, even if you're only able to outfit each toolboard with very basic tools. This minimizes walking all the way across the workspace to get a tool and having to wait for someone else to finish using a basic tool. Specialized tools and ones used less often are fine to keep on a centralized board or in a special cabinet.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Please feel free to email me about any specific storage problems you're stumped by. Sorry I don't have any pictures!

-Cyclista Director, Recycle Ithaca's Bicycles

On 2017-07-25 14:16, Jean-François Caron wrote:

Regarding "hang everything": that's pretty good advice if you live in a low-earthquake area (like Wichita).

In Vancouver BC we avoided hanging anything over normal work spaces, and only had overhead storage in actual "storage" low-occupancy areas. I don't know how voluntary that was...safety codes might have required it.

Looks like Port Melbourne is more like Vancouver than Wichita, so do consider the earthquake risk when designing your vertical storage. ^_^

Jean-François

Refs: http://aussurvivalist.com/images/Australia_topo.jpg http://aussurvivalist.com/images/Australia_topo.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seismic_Hazard_Zones_in_the_United_States... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seismic_Hazard_Zones_in_the_United_States..pdf http://www.earthquakescanada.nrcan.gc.ca/hazard-alea/zoning-zonage/NBCC2015m... http://www.earthquakescanada.nrcan.gc.ca/hazard-alea/zoning-zonage/NBCC2015maps-en.php

...

On Jul 25, 2017, at 08:53 , Jack Murphy jack@bikewalkwichita.org wrote:

First off have great volunteers! Then GO VERTICAL! Hang everything. Use pallets for workbenches and shelves. Don't be afraid of creative uses of materials - conduit is a cheap and functional material.

<image.png>

Wheel storage - overhead! Note the custom bent hooks, J-hooks reshaped on vise with mallet, we got good at making those

<image.png>

Bike rack made from 2x4 A-Frames and conduit. Rafter hooks had to be bent crossways to line up, another task we got good at, put it in the vise and turn using a handlebar. <image.png>

A couple of classic 3-speeds, hanging. Not shown: our Park Tool Set, via a grant from Park Tools. Stand, full pro set of tools. Also a bunch of Aldi $30 workstands in our shop, and scavenged and donated tools. A nice set of Pedros wrenches, too!

<image.png>

We have office / meeting space across the hall from the shop, where we do classes. The shop is mainly ReCycle, where we fix/donate bikes and run a 15hr Earn a Bike program. Open for fixing donated bikes Tue Thur evening and Sat morning. Sat afternoon open shop for volunteers. Bike Walk Wichita is all volunteer led, volunteer driven, open to anyone who wants to help. Our LAB classes and donations cover most costs, we run a lean organization. Scavenge, re-use, be creative, but most of all make everyone feel welcome. (PS it's not really about bikes, it's about connections. Retired judge sharing shop space with homeless family, great fun to see the connections, the sharing of knowledge, of our stories, ourselves.)

Jack Murphy Jack@BikeWalkWichita.org

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Geoffrey Smart <bizlooptyltd@gmail.com mailto:bizlooptyltd@gmail.com> wrote: We are moving our workshop from 2 single garages in a city council owned compound to a larger tin shed on the other side of the yard. Size is around 12 metres(40') x 8 metres (26.5') with a 3 metre (10') sliding door two thirds of the way along the longer wall leading out on to an asphalt compound.

We have ideas on how we would like to set it up for the maximum amount of usable workspace and storage but it would be great to have any pictures and plans of how other workshops have set up their operations, specifically those of a similar size. We also welcome ideas on what works well and what mistakes others have made paritcularly in regard to storage and work stations.

To give you an idea of our activities which are relevant to the layout.

We recycle bikes with volunteers who are all adults, sell some and donate others. We also run 6 week maintenance classes. We occasionally have school excursions attend. Except for cheap rent from council we are totally self supporting from bike sales and classes.

Please post your ideas. If you have plans and photos you would like to share please email us at :-

back2bikes.portmelbourne@gmail.com mailto:back2bikes.portmelbourne@gmail.com

Geoff Smart Back2Bikes

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Angel,

I'm going to agree with you, although maybe not about discarding things that do have value. We (as in, the world) lose thousands of old, beautiful lugged framesets probably every month to destruction as scrap and internment under landfills. As a person involved in both bicycle history and recycling, I find that waste grossly unacceptable.

Storage systems are part of asset management; they necessarily compliment one another. Hoarding is, in at least my shop, part of the job when the alternative is destruction.

But I've seen those junkpile shops too, choking on their own materials, and that is a real danger. I like the idea that there has to be attention to a complete system: don't concentrate on storage at the expense of the mission of deployment and use.

Please don't however, persuade people to shrink from developing elegant storage methods. Ability should never be discouraged.

-Cyclista

On 2017-08-11 05:26, Angel York wrote:

I'd like to take a moment and hop onto the soapbox. This may not apply to you, it's a general opinion for situations like these.

I am opposed to what I've seen of the "hang everything" approach.
While I'm sure it CAN work, I've only seen it as a hoarding and safety problem in the two collectives where I spent the most time. Focus on having a system for getting bikes OUT of the shop.

Maybe that's by partnering with other local non-profits. Maybe that's by posting bikes free to Craigslist once in a while. Maybe you become a local scrap dealer's BFF. Maybe you close your shop once a year in the fall and do a thorough cleaning and purge, then throw a party to celebrate, then get to have the expectation of a clean shop all during the slow season. There's options.

But my point is, there's the physical space, sure. But you also need a system for the management of the stuff that's IN that space. You can organize to your heart's content, but if more starts going in than coming out, you're going to have a more immediate safety issue than 'earthquake threat' on your hands. Do the community a service and get those bikes back out into the world.

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 12:41 AM, cyclista@inventati.org wrote:

...

Geoff,

If you have a lot of bikes to store, putting hooks horizontally into the wall and storing assembled bikes on the wall is a great space saver. There are a lot of wall storage hooks for sale commercially (they are the ones that just hook the front tire, the back tire rests on the wall below it, the bike sits on the wall like spider man) but you can put a bike hook from the hardware store directly into a stud and get the same result for a lot cheaper. You get tire marks on the wall - but we don't care about that :)

If bikes are going to be stripped for parts, consider stripping them as soon as you get them, because older framesets with horizontal dropouts can be hung along an all-thread bar like coats in a closet, and the components when removed and stripped of cables and housings store much more compactly. I personally have an older (meaning smallish) two-car garage, where using these methods I store 40-50 bikes' worth of parts, with plenty of space for two workbenches, two workstands, and to move around.

So the more you can compact things, the more spacious your shop will remain, as long as your compaction systems leave the parts in a browseable state. No matter how much space you have, more is always good.

Magnetic toolboards are also pretty cool. Either get magnetic tool strips from a place like Harbor freight ($5 each) or source a bunch of neodymium magnets and just use sections of sheet metal as tool boards. Pegboard kind of sucks, if I had to go the wood route I'd rather hang tools from carefully considered nails in a piece of plywood.

Also - you're in Australia, so you probably don't need to insulate and this might not be relevant, but I always tell people to make sure the main buildout for the space happens BEFORE YOU START FILLING IT WITH STUFF. There's nothing crappier than doing major work (like insulating) in a space when it is filled literally wall to wall and to the ceiling with crap. Envision the shelving and workbench placement before you start using the space for storage, if at all possible.

If you're able to get Park workstands (or if your other workstands can be configured the same way) consider two clamps per single pole, back to back as it were. This also saves space.

Wheels overhead, as already mentioned. It kind of kills the sense of spaciousness and feels a bit oppressive, especially in work areas, but it often is unavoidably the most efficient means of storage for both wheels and tires. An alternative to consider if you have rights to some space outside of the building and if you are situated in a low-theft area, is to store both of these things outside the building on custom racks - sort of like CDs used to be stored. Just make sure to put a roof above/along the rack to keep rain off the wheels and UV off the tires.

Make sure workstations are relatively shallow. If the bench/table is up against the wall, making it too deep will make reaching across it a pain. A bonus here is that shallow benches are less hogs of space. I generally find stands in the center of the room and boards and workbenches on the wall affords a more intuitive (and social) workflow. Social because people aren't separated from each other and can more easily share tqasks and/or ideas.

If you can, try and create a ratio of one toolboard per workstand, even if you're only able to outfit each toolboard with very basic tools. This minimizes walking all the way across the workspace to get a tool and having to wait for someone else to finish using a basic tool. Specialized tools and ones used less often are fine to keep on a centralized board or in a special cabinet.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Please feel free to email me about any specific storage problems you're stumped by. Sorry I don't have any pictures!

-Cyclista Director, Recycle Ithaca's Bicycles

On 2017-07-25 14:16, Jean-François Caron wrote:

...

Regarding "hang everything": that's pretty good advice if you live in a low-earthquake area (like Wichita).

In Vancouver BC we avoided hanging anything over normal work spaces, and only had overhead storage in actual "storage" low-occupancy areas. I don't know how voluntary that was...safety codes might have required it.

Looks like Port Melbourne is more like Vancouver than Wichita, so do consider the earthquake risk when designing your vertical storage. ^_^

Jean-François

Refs: http://aussurvivalist.com/images/Australia_topo.jpg http://aussurvivalist.com/images/Australia_topo.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seismic_Hazard_Zones_in_t he_United_States..pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seismic_Hazard_Zones_in_ the_United_States..pdf http://www.earthquakescanada.nrcan.gc.ca/hazard-alea/zoning- zonage/NBCC2015maps-en.php http://www.earthquakescanada.nrcan.gc.ca/hazard-alea/zoning -zonage/NBCC2015maps-en.php

On Jul 25, 2017, at 08:53 , Jack Murphy jack@bikewalkwichita.org wrote:

...

First off have great volunteers! Then GO VERTICAL! Hang everything. Use pallets for workbenches and shelves. Don't be afraid of creative uses of materials - conduit is a cheap and functional material.

<image.png>

Wheel storage - overhead! Note the custom bent hooks, J-hooks reshaped on vise with mallet, we got good at making those

<image.png>

Bike rack made from 2x4 A-Frames and conduit. Rafter hooks had to be bent crossways to line up, another task we got good at, put it in the vise and turn using a handlebar. <image.png>

A couple of classic 3-speeds, hanging. Not shown: our Park Tool Set, via a grant from Park Tools. Stand, full pro set of tools. Also a bunch of Aldi $30 workstands in our shop, and scavenged and donated tools. A nice set of Pedros wrenches, too!

<image.png>

We have office / meeting space across the hall from the shop, where we do classes. The shop is mainly ReCycle, where we fix/donate bikes and run a 15hr Earn a Bike program. Open for fixing donated bikes Tue Thur evening and Sat morning. Sat afternoon open shop for volunteers. Bike Walk Wichita is all volunteer led, volunteer driven, open to anyone who wants to help. Our LAB classes and donations cover most costs, we run a lean organization. Scavenge, re-use, be creative, but most of all make everyone feel welcome. (PS it's not really about bikes, it's about connections. Retired judge sharing shop space with homeless family, great fun to see the connections, the sharing of knowledge, of our stories, ourselves.)

Jack Murphy Jack@BikeWalkWichita.org

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Geoffrey Smart <bizlooptyltd@gmail.com mailto:bizlooptyltd@gmail.com> wrote: We are moving our workshop from 2 single garages in a city council owned compound to a larger tin shed on the other side of the yard. Size is around 12 metres(40') x 8 metres (26.5') with a 3 metre (10') sliding door two thirds of the way along the longer wall leading out on to an asphalt compound.

We have ideas on how we would like to set it up for the maximum amount of usable workspace and storage but it would be great to have any pictures and plans of how other workshops have set up their operations, specifically those of a similar size. We also welcome ideas on what works well and what mistakes others have made paritcularly in regard to storage and work stations.

To give you an idea of our activities which are relevant to the layout.

We recycle bikes with volunteers who are all adults, sell some and donate others. We also run 6 week maintenance classes. We occasionally have school excursions attend. Except for cheap rent from council we are totally self supporting from bike sales and classes.

Please post your ideas. If you have plans and photos you would like to share please email us at :-

back2bikes.portmelbourne@gmail.com mailto:back2bikes.portmelbour ne@gmail.com

Geoff Smart Back2Bikes

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-- Jack Murphy Jack@BikeWalkWichita.org Support Bike Walk Wichita when you shop! http://dillons.com/communityrewards http://smile.amazon.com/ch/46-2800001____________________ ________________

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