Re: [TheThinkTank] Policy or Process for Removing Collective Members
Do you have a situation where the dead wood is in the way, taking up space and committing to do jobs that are not getting done? Or is that they actively obstruct others? Jim
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE urbanbikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
From: Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE urbanbikeproject@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Policy or Process for Removing Collective Members To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 10:06 AM
We recently defined "Core Volunteer" as someone who attends a volunteer orientation class and volunteers for 3 full shifts every month. Core Volunteers are the only people who have a say in making decisions, though that is still a fairly informal process as of now.
Since it's so recent we haven't removed anyone from Core Volunteer status (and with that, decision making), but will do so if a person is not fulfilling their obligations.
I would suggest setting strict (i.e. no wiggle room for excuses) guidelines as far as what is required of an individual to participate in meetings and have voting power. Don't rock the boat right away but instead set a timeline or cutoff date for the new rules to take effect. Constantly remind people what the new requirements are and inform those on the edge of eligibility that, when the cutoff date comes, they will not be allowed to participate unless they've fulfilled the new obligations. The "old guard" is given a chance to fall in line if they want to, and can't be upset (though they probably still will be) when they no longer have the same say.
Brian
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Maggie Burrus-Granger mburrus-granger@recycleabike.org wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I am wondering if anyone has a specific policy or process for removing individuals from the collective, or council however you define it, the inner group of people with voting power. We are restructuring our organization and do not have a system for this. In the process of trying to build capacity, we've had some problems with people not pulling their weight, but also have no process for removing them, while the rest of the collective doesn't particularly want to rock the boat with long-standing volunteers, so as a whole there are a lot of excuses for people so most likely a simple majority vote won't work. Any advice?
Thanks
Yes, I'd say "the dead wood is in the way, taking up space and committing to do jobs that are not getting done" and then also they passively obstruct others by not encouraging new volunteers, not being particularly welcoming, and pretending like the collective in organized and new volunteers aren't needed to get stuff done, which leads to not much getting done...
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 3:18 PM, james blesdoe jamesbleds0e@yahoo.comwrote:
Do you have a situation where the dead wood is in the way, taking up space and committing to do jobs that are not getting done? Or is that they actively obstruct others?
Jim
--- On *Fri, 3/20/09, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com>* wrote:
From: Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE urbanbikeproject@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Policy or Process for Removing Collective Members To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 10:06 AM
We recently defined "Core Volunteer" as someone who attends a volunteer orientation class and volunteers for 3 full shifts every month. Core Volunteers are the only people who have a say in making decisions, though that is still a fairly informal process as of now.
Since it's so recent we haven't removed anyone from Core Volunteer status (and with that, decision making), but will do so if a person is not fulfilling their obligations.
I would suggest setting strict (i.e. no wiggle room for excuses) guidelines as far as what is required of an individual to participate in meetings and have voting power. Don't rock the boat right away but instead set a timeline or cutoff date for the new rules to take effect. *Constantly*remind people what the new requirements are and inform those on the edge of eligibility that, when the cutoff date comes, they will not be allowed to participate unless they've fulfilled the new obligations. The "old guard" is given a chance to fall in line if they want to, and can't be upset (though they probably still will be) when they no longer have the same say.
Brian
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Maggie Burrus-Granger < mburrus-granger@recycleabike.orghttp://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mburrus-granger@recycleabike.org
wrote:
Hi Everyone, I am wondering if anyone has a specific policy or process for removing individuals from the collective, or council however you define it, the inner group of people with voting power. We are restructuring our organization and do not have a system for this. In the process of trying to build capacity, we've had some problems with people not pulling their weight, but also have no process for removing them, while the rest of the collective doesn't particularly want to rock the boat with long-standing volunteers, so as a whole there are a lot of excuses for people so most likely a simple majority vote won't work. Any advice?
Thanks
-- Maggie Burrus-Granger Recycle-a-Bike Program Coordinator 27 Sims Ave. Providence, RI 02909 401.273.7101 www.recycleabike.org
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Hello, One rule we (Durham Bike Co-op) created was "3 months of non-meeting attendance will lead to removal from the board at the boards discretion", which has so far been used several times (people seem much more willing to send emails than actually come to an in-person meeting). Also, we have an "instant recall vote for BM's" which has never been used. In general we've had luck (so far), by being rather open, and that any member that wants to come to a meeting and participate in the decision making can. This means that members who are excited about being involved (organizationally) can get involved.
Just my 2cents. Best, -Dave
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Maggie Burrus-Granger mburrus-granger@recycleabike.org wrote:
Yes, I'd say "the dead wood is in the way, taking up space and committing to do jobs that are not getting done" and then also they passively obstruct others by not encouraging new volunteers, not being particularly welcoming, and pretending like the collective in organized and new volunteers aren't needed to get stuff done, which leads to not much getting done...
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 3:18 PM, james blesdoe jamesbleds0e@yahoo.com wrote:
Do you have a situation where the dead wood is in the way, taking up space and committing to do jobs that are not getting done? Or is that they actively obstruct others?
Jim
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE urbanbikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
From: Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE urbanbikeproject@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Policy or Process for Removing Collective Members To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 10:06 AM
We recently defined "Core Volunteer" as someone who attends a volunteer orientation class and volunteers for 3 full shifts every month. Core Volunteers are the only people who have a say in making decisions, though that is still a fairly informal process as of now.
Since it's so recent we haven't removed anyone from Core Volunteer status (and with that, decision making), but will do so if a person is not fulfilling their obligations.
I would suggest setting strict (i.e. no wiggle room for excuses) guidelines as far as what is required of an individual to participate in meetings and have voting power. Don't rock the boat right away but instead set a timeline or cutoff date for the new rules to take effect. Constantly remind people what the new requirements are and inform those on the edge of eligibility that, when the cutoff date comes, they will not be allowed to participate unless they've fulfilled the new obligations. The "old guard" is given a chance to fall in line if they want to, and can't be upset (though they probably still will be) when they no longer have the same say.
Brian
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Maggie Burrus-Granger mburrus-granger@recycleabike.org wrote:
Hi Everyone, I am wondering if anyone has a specific policy or process for removing individuals from the collective, or council however you define it, the inner group of people with voting power. We are restructuring our organization and do not have a system for this. In the process of trying to build capacity, we've had some problems with people not pulling their weight, but also have no process for removing them, while the rest of the collective doesn't particularly want to rock the boat with long-standing volunteers, so as a whole there are a lot of excuses for people so most likely a simple majority vote won't work. Any advice? Thanks -- Maggie Burrus-Granger Recycle-a-Bike Program Coordinator 27 Sims Ave. Providence, RI 02909 401.273.7101 www.recycleabike.org
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-- Maggie Burrus-Granger Recycle-a-Bike Program Coordinator 27 Sims Ave. Providence, RI 02909 401.273.7101 www.recycleabike.org
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"This means that members who are excited about being involved (organizationally) can get involved."
I think you hit on one of the key concepts in any organization. Much of our workforce in the U.S. is made up of 'disengaged' people who are there but not really there. Most people want to feel like they belong and many have put in the time and energy in the past, but maybe are no longer engaged in what they are doing. I don't like the phrase 'burnt out' as much as I like the word 'disengaged' because burnt out to me seems like the end. In my experience, many of the problems can be resolved by finding some way to get these people doing something they really love and can become passionate about. The effort required to run a program like ours is staggering, especially if you are trying to do it with part-time volunteers who also have jobs and other commitments. Defining roles better is a good step, and then trying to get the core volunteers to volunteer for what they really love to do. If it's fixing bikes and not board meetings, then it's better for the whole organization for that person to be fixin bikes. And maybe it's teaching. As we change our organization into a collective, we are developing teams, and the teams are engaged in a portion of the organization that they are skilled and passionate about. And this way people who want to participate don't have to be board members or even skilled mechanics. We have a web/technology team that totally redesigned our website, got us new computers and meet regularly to work on various projects. Right now they are working on a volunteer tracking system. It's cool. And they do it because it's a way they can contribute and make a difference. I read this very good book by Jim Loehr and Tony Schwartz, 'The power of full engagement' and one of the principals they talk about is how to renew energy. One way to do that is through purpose. And that is finding what moves us and feels meaningful. I admit that I haven't done the best job in some of the roles I've taken on, but that doesn't mean I don't want to continue. One of our goals this year is to fit people into roles they really want to be in. And our team concept helps and allows for a team of people to co-navigate our challenges so one person is not overwhelmed. This idea of full engagement is something I keep thinking about after being involved with volunteer organizations for over fifteen years. Don't know if it helps this situation, but it's something we are trying to work on. John Sibley Bike Depot, St. Paul, MN
----- Original Message ----- From: "David J. Zielinski" djzielin@gmail.com To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Policy or Process for Removing Collective Members
Hello, One rule we (Durham Bike Co-op) created was "3 months of non-meeting attendance will lead to removal from the board at the boards discretion", which has so far been used several times (people seem much more willing to send emails than actually come to an in-person meeting). Also, we have an "instant recall vote for BM's" which has never been used. In general we've had luck (so far), by being rather open, and that any member that wants to come to a meeting and participate in the decision making can. This means that members who are excited about being involved (organizationally) can get involved.
Just my 2cents. Best, -Dave
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Maggie Burrus-Granger mburrus-granger@recycleabike.org wrote:
Yes, I'd say "the dead wood is in the way, taking up space and committing to do jobs that are not getting done" and then also they passively obstruct others by not encouraging new volunteers, not being particularly welcoming, and pretending like the collective in organized and new volunteers aren't needed to get stuff done, which leads to not much getting done...
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 3:18 PM, james blesdoe jamesbleds0e@yahoo.com wrote:
Do you have a situation where the dead wood is in the way, taking up space and committing to do jobs that are not getting done? Or is that they actively obstruct others?
Jim
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE urbanbikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
From: Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE urbanbikeproject@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Policy or Process for Removing Collective Members To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 10:06 AM
We recently defined "Core Volunteer" as someone who attends a volunteer orientation class and volunteers for 3 full shifts every month. Core Volunteers are the only people who have a say in making decisions, though that is still a fairly informal process as of now.
Since it's so recent we haven't removed anyone from Core Volunteer status (and with that, decision making), but will do so if a person is not fulfilling their obligations.
I would suggest setting strict (i.e. no wiggle room for excuses) guidelines as far as what is required of an individual to participate in meetings and have voting power. Don't rock the boat right away but instead set a timeline or cutoff date for the new rules to take effect. Constantly remind people what the new requirements are and inform those on the edge of eligibility that, when the cutoff date comes, they will not be allowed to participate unless they've fulfilled the new obligations. The "old guard" is given a chance to fall in line if they want to, and can't be upset (though they probably still will be) when they no longer have the same say.
Brian
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Maggie Burrus-Granger mburrus-granger@recycleabike.org wrote:
Hi Everyone, I am wondering if anyone has a specific policy or process for removing individuals from the collective, or council however you define it, the inner group of people with voting power. We are restructuring our organization and do not have a system for this. In the process of trying to build capacity, we've had some problems with people not pulling their weight, but also have no process for removing them, while the rest of the collective doesn't particularly want to rock the boat with long-standing volunteers, so as a whole there are a lot of excuses for people so most likely a simple majority vote won't work. Any advice? Thanks -- Maggie Burrus-Granger Recycle-a-Bike Program Coordinator 27 Sims Ave. Providence, RI 02909 401.273.7101 www.recycleabike.org
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-- Maggie Burrus-Granger Recycle-a-Bike Program Coordinator 27 Sims Ave. Providence, RI 02909 401.273.7101 www.recycleabike.org
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maybe i'm misunderstanding the situation, but if people aren't following through on the tasks they commit to, couldn't they just be approached to see why, and to see if something could be arranged that works better for them? you could also let them know in as non-guilt-tripping a way as possible that the collective is really counting on them, and that if they're too busy or just feel like shirking it would really benefit the shop for them to let someone else step in who's able to commit.
the only rule we have that gets you an immediate boot at our shop is physically violent behaviour. even for stuff like fucked up racist/classist/sexist shit, we try our best to work it out by communicating, so i'm not sure i see the need for booting someone just for being a flake.
macho
One thing we do is we post all of the things we need volunteers for on our wiki. We then advertise that via an e-mail list (kinda like this ThinkThank list) to our membership. We make sure that it's understood that no job is just for one person. Anyone can do any job, and, in fact, the more people that help out (even on the simplest tasks) the better. This promotes a volunteer culture and it helps build connections between members.
We don't take those volunteer duties off the wiki list. We do put the list of names of folks that have volunteered to do it there. If someone slacks off, we will try to hold them accountable by pointing out that they committed to it. If the person (or persons) continue to slack off, we remove their name from that task on the wiki. And then we advertise again that we need volunteers for that task.
It doesn't have to involve a lot of drama. It's just a list of tasks that need to get done. If someone gets hurt feelings because they're slacking off. That's a personal issue outside of the volunteer tasks. I hate to say it, but there isn't always a way to give people this kind of information in a way that won't make them upset.
That doesn't mean the person gets kicked out of the collective. It just means that they aren't assigned that task anymore.
If you need a more formal process... you could always bring task reassignments to a vote at your regular meetings. Might make for a much longer meeting, but it would give your group a chance to air things out in a more public forum. The trick there is to not let things go crazy about something that might only be a minor grievance.
Another way to do it is how I've done it at another organization (community radio station) where I volunteer. I'm currently sort of a co-chair of the rock/pop genre (basically every flavor of rock from bonnie prince billy to bon jovi). I've only ever been to one meeting, but my co-chair goes to most of the meetings. I do some of the work (cateloging music, making sure all the new stuff is available to DJs, and my co-chair does some of the other stuff).
Honestly, the station would be better served with one person that could handle everything and go to all the meetings. But, we're making it work as best we can with our available volunteer time. Maybe that's a model you guys can shoot for. Maybe instead of trying to replace the slackers... just add people that will help with the tasks. If the slackers can do a small part, the other helpers can handle the rest. Between the group, you'll get the task completed.
One downside I've noticed to this approach is that if I can't volunteer one week... all of the things I normally will definitely not get done. It's not like my co-volunteer is picking up the slack (pardon the pun). ;-)
--sam
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Macho Philipovich macho@resist.ca wrote:
maybe i'm misunderstanding the situation, but if people aren't following through on the tasks they commit to, couldn't they just be approached to see why, and to see if something could be arranged that works better for them? you could also let them know in as non-guilt-tripping a way as possible that the collective is really counting on them, and that if they're too busy or just feel like shirking it would really benefit the shop for them to let someone else step in who's able to commit.
the only rule we have that gets you an immediate boot at our shop is physically violent behaviour. even for stuff like fucked up racist/classist/sexist shit, we try our best to work it out by communicating, so i'm not sure i see the need for booting someone just for being a flake.
macho
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i believe our bylaws state that board members can be removed by super-majority vote of the board (2/3, if memory serves) or if a board member misses enough board meetings.
that said, someone taught me long ago that when dealing with or reprimanding people's behavior in a workplace--and our organizations are workplaces, even though a lot of us don't get paid--when discussing inadequate performance, or unacceptable behavior, it's important to make the issue the behavior, lack of performance, etc, and not the person. it's not the person you have a problem with, it's their lack of positive energy, or presence of negative energy. this way, (so long as the offense wasn't one which banishment is the final solution) at least there's a chance that the person will change and remain a volunteer/collective member.
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Sam Santos lalato@gmail.com wrote:
One thing we do is we post all of the things we need volunteers for on our wiki. We then advertise that via an e-mail list (kinda like this ThinkThank list) to our membership. We make sure that it's understood that no job is just for one person. Anyone can do any job, and, in fact, the more people that help out (even on the simplest tasks) the better. This promotes a volunteer culture and it helps build connections between members.
We don't take those volunteer duties off the wiki list. We do put the list of names of folks that have volunteered to do it there. If someone slacks off, we will try to hold them accountable by pointing out that they committed to it. If the person (or persons) continue to slack off, we remove their name from that task on the wiki. And then we advertise again that we need volunteers for that task.
It doesn't have to involve a lot of drama. It's just a list of tasks that need to get done. If someone gets hurt feelings because they're slacking off. That's a personal issue outside of the volunteer tasks. I hate to say it, but there isn't always a way to give people this kind of information in a way that won't make them upset.
That doesn't mean the person gets kicked out of the collective. It just means that they aren't assigned that task anymore.
If you need a more formal process... you could always bring task reassignments to a vote at your regular meetings. Might make for a much longer meeting, but it would give your group a chance to air things out in a more public forum. The trick there is to not let things go crazy about something that might only be a minor grievance.
Another way to do it is how I've done it at another organization (community radio station) where I volunteer. I'm currently sort of a co-chair of the rock/pop genre (basically every flavor of rock from bonnie prince billy to bon jovi). I've only ever been to one meeting, but my co-chair goes to most of the meetings. I do some of the work (cateloging music, making sure all the new stuff is available to DJs, and my co-chair does some of the other stuff).
Honestly, the station would be better served with one person that could handle everything and go to all the meetings. But, we're making it work as best we can with our available volunteer time. Maybe that's a model you guys can shoot for. Maybe instead of trying to replace the slackers... just add people that will help with the tasks. If the slackers can do a small part, the other helpers can handle the rest. Between the group, you'll get the task completed.
One downside I've noticed to this approach is that if I can't volunteer one week... all of the things I normally will definitely not get done. It's not like my co-volunteer is picking up the slack (pardon the pun). ;-)
--sam
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Macho Philipovich macho@resist.cawrote:
maybe i'm misunderstanding the situation, but if people aren't following through on the tasks they commit to, couldn't they just be approached to see why, and to see if something could be arranged that works better for them? you could also let them know in as non-guilt-tripping a way as possible that the collective is really counting on them, and that if they're too busy or just feel like shirking it would really benefit the shop for them to let someone else step in who's able to commit.
the only rule we have that gets you an immediate boot at our shop is physically violent behaviour. even for stuff like fucked up racist/classist/sexist shit, we try our best to work it out by communicating, so i'm not sure i see the need for booting someone just for being a flake.
macho
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participants (7)
-
David J. Zielinski -
james blesdoe -
John Carlson -
Macho Philipovich -
Maggie Burrus-Granger -
Sam Santos -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com