Hey who's got a great example or model of a nonprofit shop and a for-profit shop getting along well and it all working to everyone's benefit? Not a two-in-one model, but a symbiotic relationship between two shops, like maybe on the same block or something. Plz?
Josh Bisker 914-500-9890 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op http://bikecoop.nyc/ 596 Acres http://596acres.org/ Bindlestiff Family Cirkus http://bindlestiff.org/
Bike Pirates in Toronto has had a few really good relationships with local bike shops.
When we started out it was back in the pre-historic times when LBSs considered community bike projects to be a THREAT and an OFFENCE to the culture of bike repair. We were a bunch of dirty anarchists, but one local shop owner supported us (in part, I think, because he was involved in the community bike share program and local bike advocacy organization). In fact he hired ME (even though I knew practically nothing) along with several other Bike Pirates over the past 12 years. Many of us got our first real experiences fixing bikes at that shop and went on to work as mechanics for many years, while continuing to volunteer at Pirates or other projects :) That shop actually just closed after 18 years in business and I will always feel indebted to the way in which us local bike punks were fostered through employment there.
We have have other copacetic relationships with shops on the "same block" where they send folks to us who they can't help, and we do the same. It's actually great to have a LBS nearby for complex issues and parts that you can't keep in stock (must of us are pretty limited in what NEW parts we are able to source or keep on hand). At our old space there were 2 nearby shops things were fine with, and at our current location there was a small shop down the block who we were friendly with as well. He however closed last year, and a different shop opened up two doors down from us who we don't have great relations with. The owner is friendly and actually used to use our space regularly, but his staff have been rude and condescending both *about our organization* and to our patrons when they have gone in for parts or repairs. They generally don't have a great reputation in the neighbourhood either.
It feels really crappy to have a shop nearby and not be able to recommend them to participants, and also to know that they don't have the parts that people need :( But generally we have had things work out well, and because we have proven ourselves over the years most shops at the very least contact us for donations and appreciate the work that we do!
Ainsley (Toronto)
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 2:37 PM Josh Bisker jbisker@gmail.com wrote:
Hey who's got a great example or model of a nonprofit shop and a for-profit shop getting along well and it all working to everyone's benefit? Not a two-in-one model, but a symbiotic relationship between two shops, like maybe on the same block or something. Plz?
Josh Bisker 914-500-9890 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op http://bikecoop.nyc/ 596 Acres http://596acres.org/ Bindlestiff Family Cirkus http://bindlestiff.org/ ____________________________________
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In SLC many of the shops donate used or warranty parts to the Bicycle Collective. Some shops even keep a box just for that purpose. The key to maintaining the relationship seems to be introductions and being responsive to the shop’s needs. Lots of mechanics have gotten their start at BC, later moving to commercial shops. Letting the shops know about training programs (Park Tool School, etc.) and the ability to assist customers that they can’t fosters trust and appreciation.
Kevin Dwyer
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On Nov 28, 2019, at 3:58 AM, Ainsley Naylor needleandthread@gmail.com wrote:
Bike Pirates in Toronto has had a few really good relationships with local bike shops.
When we started out it was back in the pre-historic times when LBSs considered community bike projects to be a THREAT and an OFFENCE to the culture of bike repair. We were a bunch of dirty anarchists, but one local shop owner supported us (in part, I think, because he was involved in the community bike share program and local bike advocacy organization). In fact he hired ME (even though I knew practically nothing) along with several other Bike Pirates over the past 12 years. Many of us got our first real experiences fixing bikes at that shop and went on to work as mechanics for many years, while continuing to volunteer at Pirates or other projects :) That shop actually just closed after 18 years in business and I will always feel indebted to the way in which us local bike punks were fostered through employment there.
We have have other copacetic relationships with shops on the "same block" where they send folks to us who they can't help, and we do the same. It's actually great to have a LBS nearby for complex issues and parts that you can't keep in stock (must of us are pretty limited in what NEW parts we are able to source or keep on hand). At our old space there were 2 nearby shops things were fine with, and at our current location there was a small shop down the block who we were friendly with as well. He however closed last year, and a different shop opened up two doors down from us who we don't have great relations with. The owner is friendly and actually used to use our space regularly, but his staff have been rude and condescending both about our organization and to our patrons when they have gone in for parts or repairs. They generally don't have a great reputation in the neighbourhood either.
It feels really crappy to have a shop nearby and not be able to recommend them to participants, and also to know that they don't have the parts that people need :( But generally we have had things work out well, and because we have proven ourselves over the years most shops at the very least contact us for donations and appreciate the work that we do!
Ainsley (Toronto)
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 2:37 PM Josh Bisker jbisker@gmail.com wrote: Hey who's got a great example or model of a nonprofit shop and a for-profit shop getting along well and it all working to everyone's benefit? Not a two-in-one model, but a symbiotic relationship between two shops, like maybe on the same block or something. Plz?
Josh Bisker 914-500-9890 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op 596 Acres Bindlestiff Family Cirkus ____________________________________
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In Detroit, Michigan and Brandon, Manitoba there have been shops that will trade in older bikes and give a percentage off the sale of a new bike. Many of those bikes that were traded in were then given to the non-profit shop. The project in Brandon, Manitoba was a smaller scale deal so the same shop that would get us a few bikes also sold us tools at cost. For context, this is a ~45,000 population town with only two bike shops so I don't think they saw our youth earn-a-bike program as competition or a problem. I imagine they saw us as another way of increasing bike ridership in rural Manitoba which they would benefit from. In Detroit the shops were more spread out. Also in Detroit a few of those shops didn't do trade ins, they just agreed to be donation drop off points for us because we often had people that wanted to donate bikes or parts but didn't have a way of getting all the way to our shop. The key to those relationships was communication and transportation to pick bikes up. For profit shops didn't want their storage areas filling up too much with bikes they weren't going to use. For better or worse in Detroit I think the customers (and maybe the staff) of the suburban shops got to feel good that they were helping folks in the city. The shops could also advertise that they had this partnership with us to get some more customers in the door. We would also do thank yous to them on social media which our volunteers/donors in the suburbs would see. None of those shops were near our shop because at the time Detroit didn't have many shops. There are a few for profit shops in Detroit now that are super supportive and community minded. After I left they partnered in our annual winter bike-a-thon fundraiser as a warming station for riders and I believe some of their staff rode to raise money as well. Similar to what other people said, there would be many referrals between those for profit shops and non-profit.
-J
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 1:37 PM Josh Bisker jbisker@gmail.com wrote:
Hey who's got a great example or model of a nonprofit shop and a for-profit shop getting along well and it all working to everyone's benefit? Not a two-in-one model, but a symbiotic relationship between two shops, like maybe on the same block or something. Plz?
Josh Bisker 914-500-9890 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op http://bikecoop.nyc/ 596 Acres http://596acres.org/ Bindlestiff Family Cirkus http://bindlestiff.org/ ____________________________________
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The Rockville Bike Hub in Rockville MD has a good relationship with the commercial shops in the area. The local Trek store takes in kids bikes as trade-ins and donates them to us. Those bikes get used for a City of Rockville program we support. The Trek store also gives us adult bikes that people get rid of when they buy a new bike, though in that case there's no "trade-in" given.
The local REI has donated tools to us and allows us to set up at a Farmers Market in their parking lot. Since we don't stock a lot of parts as a pop-up shop, we're often directing people to them for those purchases and then helping people do the installation or repair.
We've also done some bike maintenance workshops with the Trek store, particularly a women's night event.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 10:14 AM J Fiedler jasonafiedler@gmail.com wrote:
In Detroit, Michigan and Brandon, Manitoba there have been shops that will trade in older bikes and give a percentage off the sale of a new bike. Many of those bikes that were traded in were then given to the non-profit shop. The project in Brandon, Manitoba was a smaller scale deal so the same shop that would get us a few bikes also sold us tools at cost. For context, this is a ~45,000 population town with only two bike shops so I don't think they saw our youth earn-a-bike program as competition or a problem. I imagine they saw us as another way of increasing bike ridership in rural Manitoba which they would benefit from. In Detroit the shops were more spread out. Also in Detroit a few of those shops didn't do trade ins, they just agreed to be donation drop off points for us because we often had people that wanted to donate bikes or parts but didn't have a way of getting all the way to our shop. The key to those relationships was communication and transportation to pick bikes up. For profit shops didn't want their storage areas filling up too much with bikes they weren't going to use. For better or worse in Detroit I think the customers (and maybe the staff) of the suburban shops got to feel good that they were helping folks in the city. The shops could also advertise that they had this partnership with us to get some more customers in the door. We would also do thank yous to them on social media which our volunteers/donors in the suburbs would see. None of those shops were near our shop because at the time Detroit didn't have many shops. There are a few for profit shops in Detroit now that are super supportive and community minded. After I left they partnered in our annual winter bike-a-thon fundraiser as a warming station for riders and I believe some of their staff rode to raise money as well. Similar to what other people said, there would be many referrals between those for profit shops and non-profit.
-J
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 1:37 PM Josh Bisker jbisker@gmail.com wrote:
Hey who's got a great example or model of a nonprofit shop and a for-profit shop getting along well and it all working to everyone's benefit? Not a two-in-one model, but a symbiotic relationship between two shops, like maybe on the same block or something. Plz?
Josh Bisker 914-500-9890 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op http://bikecoop.nyc/ 596 Acres http://596acres.org/ Bindlestiff Family Cirkus http://bindlestiff.org/ ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
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We've got some friendly shops in Vancouver! Sidesaddle really stands out. They have run fundraisers on our behalf, regularly donate nice parts, and have even written a QBP community grant for us. It helps that a few of their mechanics volunteer with us, but they're also just a great group of folks that - surprise - don't see us as a threat to their business (we aren't). Probably helps that we don't do work orders.
Our relationship is more commensal than mutualistic, but we certainly do regularly send folks their way.
Alysia
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:37 AM Josh Bisker jbisker@gmail.com wrote:
Hey who's got a great example or model of a nonprofit shop and a for-profit shop getting along well and it all working to everyone's benefit? Not a two-in-one model, but a symbiotic relationship between two shops, like maybe on the same block or something. Plz?
Josh Bisker 914-500-9890 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op http://bikecoop.nyc/ 596 Acres http://596acres.org/ Bindlestiff Family Cirkus http://bindlestiff.org/ ____________________________________
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At Our Community Bikes we have a solid relationship with several shops in the area and cross overs on people who use our services.
There's definitely a recognition of first time riders, or people just getting back into it finding a used bike, and within a period, raising funds to buy the bike they want from a retailer.
We cross reference repair services depending on our capabilities and stock in parts. But we have expanded our distributors so much that we can usually order anything, and now get people who order specialty premium items because they want to support us, and then buy our service to install it! It's great!
I think that there have been some contentious issues when a retailer has seen us as a competitor and made hostile remarks on social media or to shared users since we've been operating (1993), but they are far and few between.
Not really the thread question, but a part of it is that our relationship with other community bike shops in this city is such that there has been an general alliance formed as the Vancouver Community Bikeshop Network. We share resources, have regular correspondence and meetings, and partner up on programs, space, and such. There's even several members who are staff / volunteers between 2 or more (if not all) of the shops ! (and recently our shop and staffer did a hydraulic workshop for another group of volunteers from a different community bike shop for example )
the bike shop environment here has been really easy to deal with from our experience
(But Hub City Cycles in Nanaimo BC when first started had a bad experience with a local retailer giving too much grief.. another story )
Jesse Cooper Our Community Bikes Vancouver
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 2:35 PM Alysia Herr alysiaherr@gmail.com wrote:
We've got some friendly shops in Vancouver! Sidesaddle really stands out. They have run fundraisers on our behalf, regularly donate nice parts, and have even written a QBP community grant for us. It helps that a few of their mechanics volunteer with us, but they're also just a great group of folks that - surprise - don't see us as a threat to their business (we aren't). Probably helps that we don't do work orders.
Our relationship is more commensal than mutualistic, but we certainly do regularly send folks their way.
Alysia
On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 11:37 AM Josh Bisker jbisker@gmail.com wrote:
Hey who's got a great example or model of a nonprofit shop and a for-profit shop getting along well and it all working to everyone's benefit? Not a two-in-one model, but a symbiotic relationship between two shops, like maybe on the same block or something. Plz?
Josh Bisker 914-500-9890 New York Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op http://bikecoop.nyc/ 596 Acres http://596acres.org/ Bindlestiff Family Cirkus http://bindlestiff.org/ ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
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Ainsley Naylor -
Alysia Herr -
J Fiedler -
Jesse Cooper -
Josh Bisker -
Kevin Dwyer -
Stephen Andruski