anyone have a similar situation?
We just moved into our new space a month ago and have been approached by a police officer about running a program in our shop. From his explanation this is what I understand of the program:
He is a "community" police officer (beat cop) who walks the streets and talks with members of the community on a daily basis. When he encounters youth that need something to do and may need a bike he would tell them to come to us. We would outfit the kids with a bike and work with them to have a better mechanical awareness. There would be no charge for these services. Job Corp has offered 20-30 hours per week of community service "man hours" in the shop.
He has met with some Weed And Seed folks who tentatively approved $3,500 to finance the program next year. The money would be used to buy a complete tool kit from a LBS as well as "parts". The bicycles themselves would be obtained via donations and the police impound although I believe the majority of those are adult bikes. He has asked us how much money he needs to set aside in the grant for "us" and for "what". I flat out said I have no idea....
We've never done anything like this before and neither has he so it's a little bit of the blind leading the blind...Here are some of my concerns, hoping you guys could shed some light on the situation for us:
- We were not planning to open the shop for more than a couple nights a
week and 5-10 hours on weekends. He would like the program to be "ongoing" throughout the week. Any time the shop is open kids could stop in as opposed to a designated "kid's bike day" or something. 2. The core members of our group all have day jobs and are not available to supervise the shop until at the very earliest 3:30 or 4:00 in the afternoon, perfect for after school but in the summertime, problematic. 3. Though Job Corp has offered help, it would be untrained help. We would be required to train the individuals to basically become bike mechanics if they were to be able to work independently. There is a serious lack of time for this in terms of us teaching. 4. This would also require giving key access to the shop to people that we have no prior experience in dealing with. Yes, I am inclined to trust a police officer but he will not be physically in the building for much of the time. 5. Even if we were to swing all these things at once, past experience has taught me that children require a significant amount of attention and supervision. My concern is we will often be operating the shop with only 1 or 2 volunteers and if 2 kids come in, no one else will be able to get any assistance. 6. How do we determine the costs of this program? Once the $3,500 grant is used up there will be no more money to operate the program other than what we have saved from regular shop customers. 7. How do we ask for money in the grant to assist with rent, electric, purchase of new tools etc? The program would require substantially more volunteer hours and the shop being open much longer hours that we had planned at this time.
I won't ask any more of you guys though I could go on and on. We have to sit down with him and work out the details so if anyone has suggestions, comments or comparisons to programs you have run or witnessed please share them with us and the rest of the bike collective community!
Brian
He has met with some Weed And Seed folks who tentatively approved $3,500 to finance the program next year.
presumably this project will be part of the "seeding" side of things.
one thing i would look into is what is done on the "weeding" side. it
often criminalizes poor communities of colour, homeless people, sex
trade workers, drug users, etc., further marginalizing the most
marginalized people in our cities, often with the excuse of fighting
"gangs". the end goal is usually to have more affluent people move in
to the neighbourhood, without having the burden of having to observe
poverty.
our shop would avoid entering into a weed and seed program if we felt it was legitimizing this kind of police action, given that the people it hurts are exactly the kind of people who are using our shop, and who we want to continue using our shop.
macho
hello bike bikers and beyond,
I am looking for working examples of commercial/non-commercial hybrid operations.... either commercial shops with 'community bike' programs, or community bike shops that are affiliated or have taken on a commercial angle - investing in or selling high-end bikes, tricycles, or other human powered vehicles. Please let me know! I am interested in learning about the pitfalls and benefits of such an arrangement and developing new and interesting models for this type of collaboration. I would be happy to share more information/discussion with individuals offlist.
ovr&out Andrew Troy, NY
Hey Troy,
Our business model involves taking donated bikes & parts, using experienced volunteers to train inexperienced volunteers to overhaul the bikes and retailing the bikes back to the public to generate the income to pay our rent and buy tools & supplies. For each hour volunteered the volunteers earn an hour of shop time they can use to work on their own projects. We supplement our income by charging non-volunteers $5/hr to use the shop and selling surplus used parts. We include consumable shop supplies (grease, oil, etc.) at no additional cost.
Since we are only open in the evenings we are in talks with another group that wants to lease our shop during the day to train disadvantaged people as bicycle mechanics.
We have avoided retailing any new bikes or parts to minimize competition with the local retail bike shops many of which support us with donations of used bikes & parts and a deep discount on any tools or new parts needed to complete our overhauls.
Chris
--- "andrew L." anyone@breathingplanet.net wrote:
hello bike bikers and beyond,
I am looking for working examples of commercial/non-commercial hybrid
operations.... either commercial shops with 'community bike' programs, or community bike shops that are affiliated or have taken on a commercial angle - investing in or selling high-end bikes, tricycles, or other human powered vehicles. Please let me know! I am interested in learning about the pitfalls and benefits of such an arrangement and developing new and interesting models for this type of collaboration. I would be happy to share more information/discussion with individuals offlist.
ovr&out Andrew Troy, NY _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Chris Wells (Head Mechanic & Email Handler)
re-Cycles Bicycle Co-op 112 Nelson St. Ottawa
Open 6pm-9pm Tuesdays & Thursdays
info@re-cycles.ca http://www.re-cycles.ca/
this is one reason why i think we shouldn't get into selling new parts...
On Dec 17, 2007 8:18 AM, info@re-cycles.ca info@re-cycles.ca wrote:
We have avoided retailing any new bikes or parts to minimize competition with the local retail bike shops many of which support us with donations of used bikes & parts and a deep discount on any tools or new parts needed to complete our overhauls.
Chris
oops, that wasn't meant to go to the entire list. sorry...
On Dec 17, 2007 8:26 AM, veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
this is one reason why i think we shouldn't get into selling new parts...
On Dec 17, 2007 8:18 AM, info@re-cycles.ca < info@re-cycles.ca> wrote:
We have avoided retailing any new bikes or parts to minimize competition with the local retail bike shops many of which support us with donations of used bikes & parts and a deep discount on any tools or new parts needed to complete our overhauls.
Chris
Hey Josh,
i totally understand your comment.. in the case I am in, we are in a small revitalizing post-industrial town where there is NO bikeshop (other than walmart). I founded a nomadic recycling operation several years ago that has a great reputation in the community and now seeing where the town is going (lots of new real estate development, new demographics... essentially gentrification, but of a particular post-industrial small town breed/brand), i am contemplating that someone is gonna come in and open up a shop in the next 3-5 years. i can see it. my thought is... it should be us, dammit! we have been here doing the work. we have the people (who need the paid work.) and the expertise, and the drive necessary to make it happen.... etc.. and... we could create a 'commercial' shop that is community oriented as opposed to a crap shop that only exists to make profits, and maybe the owner(s) dont even work there.
but of course, this would potentially change things in a big way and i am wondering if there are people out there who are sorting out the logistics of running dual financial entities simultaneously while maintaining a volunteer base and maintaining the all-important spirit of "community bike" work and community-building.
this actually IS intended for the list :) i wanted to give a bit more context, and see what else people had to say. i am prodding a bit. I want to get peoples reactions. this very idea doesnt necessarily sit well with me, but i want to try think hypothetically and innovatively about it.
overall, i really appreciate the thoughtfulness and haste of the conversation here. thanks everyone!
andrew
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
oops, that wasn't meant to go to the entire list. sorry...
On Dec 17, 2007 8:26 AM, <veganboyjosh@gmail.com mailto:veganboyjosh@gmail.com> wrote:
this is one reason why i think we shouldn't get into selling new parts... On Dec 17, 2007 8:18 AM, info@re-cycles.ca <mailto:info@re-cycles.ca> < info@re-cycles.ca <mailto:info@re-cycles.ca>> wrote: We have avoided retailing any new bikes or parts to minimize competition with the local retail bike shops many of which support us with donations of used bikes & parts and a deep discount on any tools or new parts needed to complete our overhauls. Chris
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
I want to say there are a few coops out there that registered as for-profit corporations instead of non-profits, hopefully they speak up. I also know the IRS has forms on how to convert a non-profit to a for-profit because it does happen.
As for the commercial side of it, you should contact or join the National Bicycle Dealers Association (www.nbda.com) and attend their free seminars at Interbike (www.interbike.com). I think one big difference (there are others) between coops and collectives vs. local bike shops (LBS) is that we find any space we can get for free or cheap, and the LBS will spend a ton to get into the right location, location, location. So count on needing a large amount of investment capital -- the days of mom and pop slowing building a business from scratch using word of mouth and good service don't exist anymore.
BTW, did these shops die?
Rudys Cyclery (518) 235-2525 578 2nd Ave Troy, NY 12182-2532
Sycaway Bicycle Sales & Svce (518) 273-7788 13 Lord Ave Troy, NY 12180-6700
Hey Andrew,
You probably already know Karen Overton (former ed of recycle-a-bicycle), but in case not: Karen.Overton@parks.nyc.gov.
RAB is obviously a unique model, but I think that they transitioned from 1 to 3 storefronts during her time there, so I thought she might have some helpful insights into hybrid community-commercial operations.
Good seeing you this weekend. It sounds like you have a lot of exciting things happening and I'll be excited to hear what comes of these bike dreams and schemes.
On an unrelated note, I've struggled with knowing how to reach out to you. There never seems to be a right time or way, so in the hopes of simply not delaying any further...I just want you to know that I am sorry. I am not asking for any response at all. I just want to be clear with you on where I stand.
Hope your nyc visit is fun. Say hey to Vicky (Vicki).
c
Caroline Samponaro
Bicycle Campaign Coordinator
Transportation Alternatives
127 W. 26th St., Suite 1000
New York, NY 10001-6808
(p) 646.873.6021
(f) 212.629.8334
www.transalt.org
Our mission is to reclaim New York City's streets from the automobile, and to advocate for bicycling, walking and public transit as the best transportation alternatives.
-----Original Message----- From: thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org [mailto:thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org] On Behalf Of andrew L. Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:29 AM To: The Think Tank Subject: [TheThinkTank] commercial/non-commercial hybrids
hello bike bikers and beyond,
I am looking for working examples of commercial/non-commercial hybrid
operations.... either commercial shops with 'community bike' programs,
or community bike shops that are affiliated or have taken on a
commercial angle - investing in or selling high-end bikes, tricycles, or
other human powered vehicles. Please let me know! I am interested in
learning about the pitfalls and benefits of such an arrangement and
developing new and interesting models for this type of collaboration. I
would be happy to share more information/discussion with individuals
offlist.
ovr&out
Andrew
Troy, NY
Thethinktank mailing list
Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectiv es.org
You should Check out the CCC, or community Cycling Center in Portland Or.. they're a non-profit suppoerted by their business..... the shop pays for the community programs they run... its prety cool./.. except now they sell bikes for a grand...... whoops.
participants (8)
-
andrew L. -
Caroline Samponaro -
info＠re-cycles.ca -
Jonathan Morrison -
Macho Philipovich -
maintenence collective -
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington, Inc. -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com