Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new
official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor
just ignore?
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Plan B nolabikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Victor, do everyone a favor and don't let yourself get baited. Keep a copy and move on.
Erik Ryberg
Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Ditto. Ignore or at best say,
"We will take your concern into consideration and pass it on to the rest of the group for further review.
Have the nicest day ever."
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Erik Ryberg ryberg@seanet.com wrote:
Victor, do everyone a favor and don't let yourself get baited. Keep a copy and move on.
Erik Ryberg
Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Erik B. Ryberg Attorney at Law 312 South Convent Avenue Tucson, AZ 85701 phone: (520) 622-3333 fax: (520) 622-2406
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Boson and Erik,
Thanks for the advice but I /know/ ignoring is the best thing to do, I just don't like being threatened and was wondering if anyone had a standard response. I feel like ignorance like this should be challenged and corrected, especially when some moron thinks that he is in the right and may spread that type of misinformation. Also, Plan B as a collective take particular offense at being labeled as discriminatory. What I'm looking for is a way to explain to this person that by the definition of law we are not participating in discriminatory action and I would like to invite him to contact the ACLU. Would informing him that we are not excluding a protected class be enough? Can I just call him names and be done with it?
Just wondering has a well informed and well written automatic response for this.
Thanks again.
V
Erik Ryberg wrote:
Victor, do everyone a favor and don't let yourself get baited. Keep a copy and move on.
Erik Ryberg
Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
We had a very similar situation at one point. Someone writing angrty
letters to the local papers and threatening to bring in the ACLU. I'm
sure the person won't get very far by complaining to the ACLU. Those
that say don't be baited are probably right, but in my case I couldn't
resist the bait. It actually took a couple of letters back and forth,
but in our case the "offended party" backed off and even apologized.
Since I took the time to write what I think was a pretty well thought
out letter I I figure i might as well share it with the list.
Carl,
Although I am a member of the steering committee that makes policy
decisions such as how to best handle Women's night, I am speaking for
myself, and not the group right now. I'm offended, and angry by your
continued pissing and moaning over this issue. I've volunteered 2
hours out every Tuesday of my life for the past year to open up the
shop and help people work on their bikes. I've never turned anyone
away, and I've never seen you there once. I've attended countless
meetings which are open to the public, and where policy decisions are
open for discussion and review. If you had any real interest in how
Freeride works, or in making it work better you might have attended
one of these meetings and voiced your concerns there. Instead you call
up the papers and raise a big stink. I think your more interested in
creating drama than creating social change. The volunteers who
collectively run Freeride have done more in the past year to make
cycling inclusive and accessible to all people in the area regardless
of gender, race, income, or physical ability, than you have likely
done in your lifetime. Yet you seem to take it as your civic duty to
undermine our efforts because one program aimed at making cycling more
accessible to women is not inclusive of men.
This program does not exist to exclude anyone, or to punish men. It is
a simple fact, and one that would be obvious enough to anyone involved
in freeride that there are fewer women who are comfortable with
bicycle mechanics than men. We want to do all we can to encourage more
women to take an active role in bicycle mechanics and freeride, and
we've been told that some women (not all) are more comfortable
learning bike mechanics from other women, and without men around. Some
of them have had bad experiences where men have made them feel stupid
when it comes to mechanical stuff, and though all the guys at Freeride
are a bunch of sensitive new age guys, and we'd never dream of making
anyone feel stupid for their lack of experience with a wrench, we
acknowledge that some women might not be comfortable learning new
things with us around. There are 168 hours in a week, and even those
of us who spend all our spare time there can manage to make ourself
scarce for 2 of those hours. The thing is the shop can only be open
when there is a volunteer head mechanic available to supervise. Our
male mechanics outnumber female mechanics about 4-1. If we want to be
open more, we need more volunteers, and by creating a safe space for
women to learn bike mechanics we are increasing the pool of potential
volunteers. This benefits everyone and hurts no one. We did not close
a shift to men when we created women's night. We opened an additional
shift. That shift is run by a volunteer who wanted to run this program
in particular. By giving HER time to help other women gain mechanic
skills she's giving something to the community, not taking something
away. Freeride does a lot of good in our community for women AND men.
None of it would happen without the hard work of our volunteers. If
the woman running women's night was not running that shift the doors
would be open to no one for those two hours. We would love to open the
doors more often than we do. All it takes is more volunteers. How do
we get more volunteers? By training more people.
The reason I take personal offense at your vitriolic emails is that
freeride is not some great big corporation out to fuck the little guy.
It's a bunch of little guys like me working together to bring
something great to our community. We work hard to make Freeride
inclusive. What reward do we get? Only the reward of knowing that our
work is appreciated by others in the community. the reward that comes
from seeing more people riding bikes, or from teaching someone a new
skill that they can use. I do this work, and my friends at freeride do
this work, because we believe it is important work and worth doing.
Your comments are not constructive. If you want to be a part of the
process come work with us. If you just want something to complain
about, why not look for some REAL evil in the world, instead of
picking on a buncha hippies who just want to help people fix their
bikes?
Sincerely, Matt Brittenham Bike Nerd
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new
official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost
laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and
knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas.
Here's the email, in it's entirety./While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are
exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that
as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do
not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with
the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be
appreciated. Thanks y'all!Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Excellent letter, Matt.
I agree with most that ignoring until it's been escalated is the best course after an initial email, but after reading Matt's letter, and should the situation become more than a threatening email, something similar would be in order. I'd personally tone down the language, but that's just me.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Matt mattface@gmail.com wrote:
We had a very similar situation at one point. Someone writing angrty letters to the local papers and threatening to bring in the ACLU. I'm sure the person won't get very far by complaining to the ACLU. Those that say don't be baited are probably right, but in my case I couldn't resist the bait. It actually took a couple of letters back and forth, but in our case the "offended party" backed off and even apologized. Since I took the time to write what I think was a pretty well thought out letter I I figure i might as well share it with the list.
Carl,
Although I am a member of the steering committee that makes policy decisions such as how to best handle Women's night, I am speaking for myself, and not the group right now. I'm offended, and angry by your continued pissing and moaning over this issue. I've volunteered 2 hours out every Tuesday of my life for the past year to open up the shop and help people work on their bikes. I've never turned anyone away, and I've never seen you there once. I've attended countless meetings which are open to the public, and where policy decisions are open for discussion and review. If you had any real interest in how Freeride works, or in making it work better you might have attended one of these meetings and voiced your concerns there. Instead you call up the papers and raise a big stink. I think your more interested in creating drama than creating social change. The volunteers who collectively run Freeride have done more in the past year to make cycling inclusive and accessible to all people in the area regardless of gender, race, income, or physical ability, than you have likely done in your lifetime. Yet you seem to take it as your civic duty to undermine our efforts because one program aimed at making cycling more accessible to women is not inclusive of men.
This program does not exist to exclude anyone, or to punish men. It is a simple fact, and one that would be obvious enough to anyone involved in freeride that there are fewer women who are comfortable with bicycle mechanics than men. We want to do all we can to encourage more women to take an active role in bicycle mechanics and freeride, and we've been told that some women (not all) are more comfortable learning bike mechanics from other women, and without men around. Some of them have had bad experiences where men have made them feel stupid when it comes to mechanical stuff, and though all the guys at Freeride are a bunch of sensitive new age guys, and we'd never dream of making anyone feel stupid for their lack of experience with a wrench, we acknowledge that some women might not be comfortable learning new things with us around. There are 168 hours in a week, and even those of us who spend all our spare time there can manage to make ourself scarce for 2 of those hours. The thing is the shop can only be open when there is a volunteer head mechanic available to supervise. Our male mechanics outnumber female mechanics about 4-1. If we want to be open more, we need more volunteers, and by creating a safe space for women to learn bike mechanics we are increasing the pool of potential volunteers. This benefits everyone and hurts no one. We did not close a shift to men when we created women's night. We opened an additional shift. That shift is run by a volunteer who wanted to run this program in particular. By giving HER time to help other women gain mechanic skills she's giving something to the community, not taking something away. Freeride does a lot of good in our community for women AND men. None of it would happen without the hard work of our volunteers. If the woman running women's night was not running that shift the doors would be open to no one for those two hours. We would love to open the doors more often than we do. All it takes is more volunteers. How do we get more volunteers? By training more people.
The reason I take personal offense at your vitriolic emails is that freeride is not some great big corporation out to fuck the little guy. It's a bunch of little guys like me working together to bring something great to our community. We work hard to make Freeride inclusive. What reward do we get? Only the reward of knowing that our work is appreciated by others in the community. the reward that comes from seeing more people riding bikes, or from teaching someone a new skill that they can use. I do this work, and my friends at freeride do this work, because we believe it is important work and worth doing. Your comments are not constructive. If you want to be a part of the process come work with us. If you just want something to complain about, why not look for some REAL evil in the world, instead of picking on a buncha hippies who just want to help people fix their bikes?
Sincerely, Matt Brittenham Bike Nerd
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
I agree... I esp love the 3rd part because it pretty much describes why any of us have a womens/trans night.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:59 PM, veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
Excellent letter, Matt.
I agree with most that ignoring until it's been escalated is the best course after an initial email, but after reading Matt's letter, and should the situation become more than a threatening email, something similar would be in order. I'd personally tone down the language, but that's just me.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Matt mattface@gmail.com wrote:
We had a very similar situation at one point. Someone writing angrty letters to the local papers and threatening to bring in the ACLU. I'm sure the person won't get very far by complaining to the ACLU. Those that say don't be baited are probably right, but in my case I couldn't resist the bait. It actually took a couple of letters back and forth, but in our case the "offended party" backed off and even apologized. Since I took the time to write what I think was a pretty well thought out letter I I figure i might as well share it with the list.
Carl,
Although I am a member of the steering committee that makes policy decisions such as how to best handle Women's night, I am speaking for myself, and not the group right now. I'm offended, and angry by your continued pissing and moaning over this issue. I've volunteered 2 hours out every Tuesday of my life for the past year to open up the shop and help people work on their bikes. I've never turned anyone away, and I've never seen you there once. I've attended countless meetings which are open to the public, and where policy decisions are open for discussion and review. If you had any real interest in how Freeride works, or in making it work better you might have attended one of these meetings and voiced your concerns there. Instead you call up the papers and raise a big stink. I think your more interested in creating drama than creating social change. The volunteers who collectively run Freeride have done more in the past year to make cycling inclusive and accessible to all people in the area regardless of gender, race, income, or physical ability, than you have likely done in your lifetime. Yet you seem to take it as your civic duty to undermine our efforts because one program aimed at making cycling more accessible to women is not inclusive of men.
This program does not exist to exclude anyone, or to punish men. It is a simple fact, and one that would be obvious enough to anyone involved in freeride that there are fewer women who are comfortable with bicycle mechanics than men. We want to do all we can to encourage more women to take an active role in bicycle mechanics and freeride, and we've been told that some women (not all) are more comfortable learning bike mechanics from other women, and without men around. Some of them have had bad experiences where men have made them feel stupid when it comes to mechanical stuff, and though all the guys at Freeride are a bunch of sensitive new age guys, and we'd never dream of making anyone feel stupid for their lack of experience with a wrench, we acknowledge that some women might not be comfortable learning new things with us around. There are 168 hours in a week, and even those of us who spend all our spare time there can manage to make ourself scarce for 2 of those hours. The thing is the shop can only be open when there is a volunteer head mechanic available to supervise. Our male mechanics outnumber female mechanics about 4-1. If we want to be open more, we need more volunteers, and by creating a safe space for women to learn bike mechanics we are increasing the pool of potential volunteers. This benefits everyone and hurts no one. We did not close a shift to men when we created women's night. We opened an additional shift. That shift is run by a volunteer who wanted to run this program in particular. By giving HER time to help other women gain mechanic skills she's giving something to the community, not taking something away. Freeride does a lot of good in our community for women AND men. None of it would happen without the hard work of our volunteers. If the woman running women's night was not running that shift the doors would be open to no one for those two hours. We would love to open the doors more often than we do. All it takes is more volunteers. How do we get more volunteers? By training more people.
The reason I take personal offense at your vitriolic emails is that freeride is not some great big corporation out to fuck the little guy. It's a bunch of little guys like me working together to bring something great to our community. We work hard to make Freeride inclusive. What reward do we get? Only the reward of knowing that our work is appreciated by others in the community. the reward that comes from seeing more people riding bikes, or from teaching someone a new skill that they can use. I do this work, and my friends at freeride do this work, because we believe it is important work and worth doing. Your comments are not constructive. If you want to be a part of the process come work with us. If you just want something to complain about, why not look for some REAL evil in the world, instead of picking on a buncha hippies who just want to help people fix their bikes?
Sincerely, Matt Brittenham Bike Nerd
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thanks so much Matt; I just wanted to give this "dude" a substantive argument in response. Beautiful answer.
Boson Au wrote:
I agree... I esp love the 3rd part because it pretty much describes why any of us have a womens/trans night.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:59 PM, <veganboyjosh@gmail.com mailto:veganboyjosh@gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent letter, Matt. I agree with most that ignoring until it's been escalated is the best course after an initial email, but after reading Matt's letter, and should the situation become more than a threatening email, something similar would be in order. I'd personally tone down the language, but that's just me. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Matt <mattface@gmail.com <mailto:mattface@gmail.com>> wrote: We had a very similar situation at one point. Someone writing angrty letters to the local papers and threatening to bring in the ACLU. I'm sure the person won't get very far by complaining to the ACLU. Those that say don't be baited are probably right, but in my case I couldn't resist the bait. It actually took a couple of letters back and forth, but in our case the "offended party" backed off and even apologized. Since I took the time to write what I think was a pretty well thought out letter I I figure i might as well share it with the list. Carl, Although I am a member of the steering committee that makes policy decisions such as how to best handle Women's night, I am speaking for myself, and not the group right now. I'm offended, and angry by your continued pissing and moaning over this issue. I've volunteered 2 hours out every Tuesday of my life for the past year to open up the shop and help people work on their bikes. I've never turned anyone away, and I've never seen you there once. I've attended countless meetings which are open to the public, and where policy decisions are open for discussion and review. If you had any real interest in how Freeride works, or in making it work better you might have attended one of these meetings and voiced your concerns there. Instead you call up the papers and raise a big stink. I think your more interested in creating drama than creating social change. The volunteers who collectively run Freeride have done more in the past year to make cycling inclusive and accessible to all people in the area regardless of gender, race, income, or physical ability, than you have likely done in your lifetime. Yet you seem to take it as your civic duty to undermine our efforts because one program aimed at making cycling more accessible to women is not inclusive of men. This program does not exist to exclude anyone, or to punish men. It is a simple fact, and one that would be obvious enough to anyone involved in freeride that there are fewer women who are comfortable with bicycle mechanics than men. We want to do all we can to encourage more women to take an active role in bicycle mechanics and freeride, and we've been told that some women (not all) are more comfortable learning bike mechanics from other women, and without men around. Some of them have had bad experiences where men have made them feel stupid when it comes to mechanical stuff, and though all the guys at Freeride are a bunch of sensitive new age guys, and we'd never dream of making anyone feel stupid for their lack of experience with a wrench, we acknowledge that some women might not be comfortable learning new things with us around. There are 168 hours in a week, and even those of us who spend all our spare time there can manage to make ourself scarce for 2 of those hours. The thing is the shop can only be open when there is a volunteer head mechanic available to supervise. Our male mechanics outnumber female mechanics about 4-1. If we want to be open more, we need more volunteers, and by creating a safe space for women to learn bike mechanics we are increasing the pool of potential volunteers. This benefits everyone and hurts no one. We did not close a shift to men when we created women's night. We opened an additional shift. That shift is run by a volunteer who wanted to run this program in particular. By giving HER time to help other women gain mechanic skills she's giving something to the community, not taking something away. Freeride does a lot of good in our community for women AND men. None of it would happen without the hard work of our volunteers. If the woman running women's night was not running that shift the doors would be open to no one for those two hours. We would love to open the doors more often than we do. All it takes is more volunteers. How do we get more volunteers? By training more people. The reason I take personal offense at your vitriolic emails is that freeride is not some great big corporation out to fuck the little guy. It's a bunch of little guys like me working together to bring something great to our community. We work hard to make Freeride inclusive. What reward do we get? Only the reward of knowing that our work is appreciated by others in the community. the reward that comes from seeing more people riding bikes, or from teaching someone a new skill that they can use. I do this work, and my friends at freeride do this work, because we believe it is important work and worth doing. Your comments are not constructive. If you want to be a part of the process come work with us. If you just want something to complain about, why not look for some REAL evil in the world, instead of picking on a buncha hippies who just want to help people fix their bikes? Sincerely, Matt Brittenham Bike Nerd On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote: Hey y'all, This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety. /While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor /My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...." I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all! Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses, Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org <mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org> To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org <mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org> To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org <mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org> To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
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Victor,
Plan B really is making a determination solely on the basis of gender
on Tuesday nights. Is that sexual discrimination?
I am a man, and if I showed up on Tuesday night I'd be turned away.
(Isn't that correct?) Probably I'd be asked to come back on Thursday,
Saturday, or Monday-- but for all of Tuesday I am not welcome. Not
because it's Hot as Hell or because there's no more room or because
the folks running the shop are too busy to help me, but solely based
on my gender. In this scenario, Plan B has made a determination about
whether or not they will serve me based on gender alone. Thomas Taylor
thinks that's sexual discrimination.
As for me, I am not interested in determining whether or not this is
"discrimination." I'm not judge or jury trying the case of Thomas
Taylor vs. Plan B, which is the only place the definition of
"discrimination" really means anything. Out here in the world where
we talk to one another and try to get things done, no one can really
say what "discrimination" is. Tom Taylor says you're discriminating
against him. Is that an argument you think you can win? Or win
friends by pursuing?
So probably the best thing to do is offer Mr. Taylor a good
explanation for why you reserve Tuesday night for women and
transgendered people. It can't hurt.
Lars Peterson Baltimore, MD
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new
official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost
laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and
knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas.
Here's the email, in it's entirety./While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are
exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that
as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do
not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with
the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be
appreciated. Thanks y'all!Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor
This may also be a case where falling back on organizational policy or program that resolves to a mission statement can come in handy. Then you can depersonalize the issue for you and the other party... "awesome community bike shop's mission is to maximize accessibility to cycling by providing affordable bike maintenance services and education. to achieve this mission, we provide a number of programs, including open shop hours and other specialized programs that support traditionally marginalized members of our community, including women and transpeople." The end, unless you want to encourage this person to come to organizational meetings if they really care that much. And then you can follow it up with agreeing that they should check in with ACLU if they need more information.
And then there are people who have nothing better to do than to harass community organizations. Along the lines of what Lars is saying, I don't think these folks are really up for being engaged about an issue. For your own sake and the sake of the organization, save your energy for what will make the biggest impact and keep your spirits up... helping the tons and tons people who do come to your shop and use it appropriately.
-rachael
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Lars Peterson lars@cpete.com wrote:
Victor,
Plan B really is making a determination solely on the basis of gender on Tuesday nights. Is that sexual discrimination?
I am a man, and if I showed up on Tuesday night I'd be turned away. (Isn't that correct?) Probably I'd be asked to come back on Thursday, Saturday, or Monday-- but for all of Tuesday I am not welcome. Not because it's Hot as Hell or because there's no more room or because the folks running the shop are too busy to help me, but solely based on my gender. In this scenario, Plan B has made a determination about whether or not they will serve me based on gender alone. Thomas Taylor thinks that's sexual discrimination.
As for me, I am not interested in determining whether or not this is "discrimination." I'm not judge or jury trying the case of Thomas Taylor vs. Plan B, which is the only place the definition of "discrimination" really means anything. Out here in the world where we talk to one another and try to get things done, no one can really say what "discrimination" is. Tom Taylor says you're discriminating against him. Is that an argument you think you can win? Or win friends by pursuing?
So probably the best thing to do is offer Mr. Taylor a good explanation for why you reserve Tuesday night for women and transgendered people. It can't hurt.
Lars Peterson Baltimore, MD
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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is there any way i can send a hug to each of you through this here think tank list?
i would if i could.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:45 PM, rachael spiewak rachael@sopobikes.orgwrote:
This may also be a case where falling back on organizational policy or program that resolves to a mission statement can come in handy. Then you can depersonalize the issue for you and the other party... "awesome community bike shop's mission is to maximize accessibility to cycling by providing affordable bike maintenance services and education. to achieve this mission, we provide a number of programs, including open shop hours and other specialized programs that support traditionally marginalized members of our community, including women and transpeople." The end, unless you want to encourage this person to come to organizational meetings if they really care that much. And then you can follow it up with agreeing that they should check in with ACLU if they need more information.
And then there are people who have nothing better to do than to harass community organizations. Along the lines of what Lars is saying, I don't think these folks are really up for being engaged about an issue. For your own sake and the sake of the organization, save your energy for what will make the biggest impact and keep your spirits up... helping the tons and tons people who do come to your shop and use it appropriately.
-rachael
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Lars Peterson lars@cpete.com wrote:
Victor,
Plan B really is making a determination solely on the basis of gender on Tuesday nights. Is that sexual discrimination?
I am a man, and if I showed up on Tuesday night I'd be turned away. (Isn't that correct?) Probably I'd be asked to come back on Thursday, Saturday, or Monday-- but for all of Tuesday I am not welcome. Not because it's Hot as Hell or because there's no more room or because the folks running the shop are too busy to help me, but solely based on my gender. In this scenario, Plan B has made a determination about whether or not they will serve me based on gender alone. Thomas Taylor thinks that's sexual discrimination.
As for me, I am not interested in determining whether or not this is "discrimination." I'm not judge or jury trying the case of Thomas Taylor vs. Plan B, which is the only place the definition of "discrimination" really means anything. Out here in the world where we talk to one another and try to get things done, no one can really say what "discrimination" is. Tom Taylor says you're discriminating against him. Is that an argument you think you can win? Or win friends by pursuing?
So probably the best thing to do is offer Mr. Taylor a good explanation for why you reserve Tuesday night for women and transgendered people. It can't hurt.
Lars Peterson Baltimore, MD
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all,
This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety.
/While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor
/My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...."
I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all!
Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses,
Victor
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http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
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Rachael,
Your statement was succinct and amazing. I think it will be our standard answer from now on. Thanks so much.
Victor
rachael spiewak wrote:
This may also be a case where falling back on organizational policy or program that resolves to a mission statement can come in handy. Then you can depersonalize the issue for you and the other party... "awesome community bike shop's mission is to maximize accessibility to cycling by providing affordable bike maintenance services and education. to achieve this mission, we provide a number of programs, including open shop hours and other specialized programs that support traditionally marginalized members of our community, including women and transpeople." The end, unless you want to encourage this person to come to organizational meetings if they really care that much. And then you can follow it up with agreeing that they should check in with ACLU if they need more information.
And then there are people who have nothing better to do than to harass community organizations. Along the lines of what Lars is saying, I don't think these folks are really up for being engaged about an issue. For your own sake and the sake of the organization, save your energy for what will make the biggest impact and keep your spirits up... helping the tons and tons people who do come to your shop and use it appropriately.
-rachael
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Lars Peterson <lars@cpete.com mailto:lars@cpete.com> wrote:
Victor, Plan B really is making a determination solely on the basis of gender on Tuesday nights. Is that sexual discrimination? I am a man, and if I showed up on Tuesday night I'd be turned away. (Isn't that correct?) Probably I'd be asked to come back on Thursday, Saturday, or Monday-- but for all of Tuesday I am not welcome. Not because it's Hot as Hell or because there's no more room or because the folks running the shop are too busy to help me, but solely based on my gender. In this scenario, Plan B has made a determination about whether or not they will serve me based on gender alone. Thomas Taylor thinks that's sexual discrimination. As for me, I am not interested in determining whether or not this is "discrimination." I'm not judge or jury trying the case of Thomas Taylor vs. Plan B, which is the only place the definition of "discrimination" really means anything. Out here in the world where we talk to one another and try to get things done, no one can really say what "discrimination" is. Tom Taylor says you're discriminating against him. Is that an argument you think you can win? Or win friends by pursuing? So probably the best thing to do is offer Mr. Taylor a good explanation for why you reserve Tuesday night for women and transgendered people. It can't hurt. Lars Peterson Baltimore, MD On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote: Hey y'all, This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety. /While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor /My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...." I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all! Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses, Victor _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org <mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org> To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org http://www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
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The conclusion everyone has come to sounds good. The point might be made in that plenty of non-profits have specialized nights. Context, please.If the person contesting these Tuesday nights was involved in the organization then they would understand the priorities within it.Keep on! shannon
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Plan B nolabikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
Rachael,
Your statement was succinct and amazing. I think it will be our standard answer from now on. Thanks so much.
Victor
rachael spiewak wrote:
This may also be a case where falling back on organizational policy or program that resolves to a mission statement can come in handy. Then you can depersonalize the issue for you and the other party... "awesome community bike shop's mission is to maximize accessibility to cycling by providing affordable bike maintenance services and education. to achieve this mission, we provide a number of programs, including open shop hours and other specialized programs that support traditionally marginalized members of our community, including women and transpeople." The end, unless you want to encourage this person to come to organizational meetings if they really care that much. And then you can follow it up with agreeing that they should check in with ACLU if they need more information.
And then there are people who have nothing better to do than to harass community organizations. Along the lines of what Lars is saying, I don't think these folks are really up for being engaged about an issue. For your own sake and the sake of the organization, save your energy for what will make the biggest impact and keep your spirits up... helping the tons and tons people who do come to your shop and use it appropriately.
-rachael
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Lars Peterson <lars@cpete.com mailto: lars@cpete.com> wrote:
Victor,
Plan B really is making a determination solely on the basis of gender on Tuesday nights. Is that sexual discrimination?
I am a man, and if I showed up on Tuesday night I'd be turned away. (Isn't that correct?) Probably I'd be asked to come back on Thursday, Saturday, or Monday-- but for all of Tuesday I am not welcome. Not because it's Hot as Hell or because there's no more room or because the folks running the shop are too busy to help me, but solely based on my gender. In this scenario, Plan B has made a determination about whether or not they will serve me based on gender alone. Thomas Taylor thinks that's sexual discrimination.
As for me, I am not interested in determining whether or not this is "discrimination." I'm not judge or jury trying the case of Thomas Taylor vs. Plan B, which is the only place the definition of "discrimination" really means anything. Out here in the world where we talk to one another and try to get things done, no one can really say what "discrimination" is. Tom Taylor says you're discriminating against him. Is that an argument you think you can win? Or win friends by pursuing?
So probably the best thing to do is offer Mr. Taylor a good explanation for why you reserve Tuesday night for women and transgendered people. It can't hurt.
Lars Peterson Baltimore, MD
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all, This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety. /While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor /My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...." I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all! Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses, Victor
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org http://www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
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I wonder if this individual thinks that having a kids' Earn-a-Bike program dicriminates against adults. :)
On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Blackbird Bicycle Co-op < blackbirdbicycle@gmail.com> wrote:
The conclusion everyone has come to sounds good. The point might be made in that plenty of non-profits have specialized nights. Context, please. If the person contesting these Tuesday nights was involved in the organization then they would understand the priorities within it. Keep on! shannon
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Plan B nolabikeproject@gmail.comwrote:
Rachael,
Your statement was succinct and amazing. I think it will be our standard answer from now on. Thanks so much.
Victor
rachael spiewak wrote:
This may also be a case where falling back on organizational policy or program that resolves to a mission statement can come in handy. Then you can depersonalize the issue for you and the other party... "awesome community bike shop's mission is to maximize accessibility to cycling by providing affordable bike maintenance services and education. to achieve this mission, we provide a number of programs, including open shop hours and other specialized programs that support traditionally marginalized members of our community, including women and transpeople." The end, unless you want to encourage this person to come to organizational meetings if they really care that much. And then you can follow it up with agreeing that they should check in with ACLU if they need more information.
And then there are people who have nothing better to do than to harass community organizations. Along the lines of what Lars is saying, I don't think these folks are really up for being engaged about an issue. For your own sake and the sake of the organization, save your energy for what will make the biggest impact and keep your spirits up... helping the tons and tons people who do come to your shop and use it appropriately.
-rachael
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Lars Peterson <lars@cpete.com mailto: lars@cpete.com> wrote:
Victor,
Plan B really is making a determination solely on the basis of gender on Tuesday nights. Is that sexual discrimination?
I am a man, and if I showed up on Tuesday night I'd be turned away. (Isn't that correct?) Probably I'd be asked to come back on Thursday, Saturday, or Monday-- but for all of Tuesday I am not welcome. Not because it's Hot as Hell or because there's no more room or because the folks running the shop are too busy to help me, but solely based on my gender. In this scenario, Plan B has made a determination about whether or not they will serve me based on gender alone. Thomas Taylor thinks that's sexual discrimination.
As for me, I am not interested in determining whether or not this is "discrimination." I'm not judge or jury trying the case of Thomas Taylor vs. Plan B, which is the only place the definition of "discrimination" really means anything. Out here in the world where we talk to one another and try to get things done, no one can really say what "discrimination" is. Tom Taylor says you're discriminating against him. Is that an argument you think you can win? Or win friends by pursuing?
So probably the best thing to do is offer Mr. Taylor a good explanation for why you reserve Tuesday night for women and transgendered people. It can't hurt.
Lars Peterson Baltimore, MD
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Plan B wrote:
Hey y'all, This is Victor at Plan B down in Hot as Hell New Orleans (the new official name for the city). I just got this email, and it's almost laughable, but I wanna deal with it in by using an accountable and knowledgeable (and perhaps vicious) response. I'd love some ideas. Here's the email, in it's entirety. /While viewing your website, I have noted that tuesday nights are exclusive to women and transexuals- I hope that you are aware that as a non-profit this constitutes sexual discrimination. If you do not cancel this event, I may refer the situation to the ACLU. Thank You, Thomas Taylor /My gut instinct is to be a jerk. My original response started with the line, " Dear Big Dummy...." I'm not the best at responding to jerks, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks y'all! Overheated hugs and sweaty kisses, Victor
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org http://www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
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participants (10)
-
Blackbird Bicycle Co-op -
Boson Au -
Erik Ryberg -
Froilan Eliseo Landeros -
Krista Bowers -
Lars Peterson -
Matt -
Plan B -
rachael spiewak -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com