Re: [TheThinkTank] What to do with the nice stuff?
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op
in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in,
and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the
good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash
money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for
volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me.
Josh
On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org
wrote:
What to do with the nice stuff?
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran joshuagoran@gmail.com wrote:
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh
On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.orgwrote:
What to do with the nice stuff?
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran joshuagoran@gmail.comwrote:
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh
On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.orgwrote:
What to do with the nice stuff?
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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Nice stuff pays the bills! End of story
rachael spiewak wrote:
We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE <urbanbikeproject@gmail.com mailto:urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor" That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff. Brian (the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!) Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802 Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00 Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran <joshuagoran@gmail.com <mailto:joshuagoran@gmail.com>> wrote: I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org <mailto:thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org> wrote:What to do with the nice stuff?_______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org <mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org> To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org <mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org> To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org http://www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
bingo
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM, R Points poster@richpoints.com wrote:
Nice stuff pays the bills! End of story
rachael spiewak wrote:
We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran joshuagoran@gmail.comwrote:
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh
On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.orgwrote:
What to do with the nice stuff?
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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at our shop we have a "fancy parts" case in which we place everything that is too nice to go in the bins.
all parts are priced at what we call ebay level, which means we research each part and price it so that it cannot be resold for a profit (more or less). ( i look at craigslist, ebay, and new price parts online and find something fair.)
all parts in the fancy case are available for cash OR work trade, which is $8/hour. if someone wants to do work trade they can check in with the greeter and be assigned a task (from a list on our whiteboard) according to their skill level. we don't really have a problem with letting people do work trade for nice parts, why shouldn't they be able to get a nice part if they don't have the money but are willing to do the work?
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM, reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.comwrote:
bingo
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM, R Points poster@richpoints.com wrote:
Nice stuff pays the bills! End of story
rachael spiewak wrote:
We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran joshuagoran@gmail.comwrote:
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh
On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.orgwrote:
What to do with the nice stuff?
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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-- www.renobikeproject.com Wed-Sat 11-6pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
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I like the perspective that Allison offers; it pretty neatly matches the way that BICAS and Bike Church Santa Cruz tend to think (generally). bike church offers work trade at $10/hr, BICAS at $8/hr (I think that's still accurate). By emphasizing that anyone can buy any of the stuff (with cash or labor), we become more invested in building a functional worktrade system. For now, of course, it is usually a big drain on skilled mechanic's time. The hope is that we can figure out strategies through which that (unskilled) labor reaps rewards for the shop/collective that are equal to the worktrade wage. It seems to me like the shop benefits in either of the scenarios suggested; charging a near-market price sure helps pay the rent. It becomes only a problem if parts are radically under-valued (and cherry-picked for profit) or over-priced (and fully functional stuff sit around as fetish items... not that pretty parts can't just be pretty some times, but we've all seen those shops that have no interest in helping people actually ride their bikes). This thread (subtly) raises another important topic: at many shops the best parts get snagged by mechanics/ committed volunteers. I have certainly been as guilty of this as the next person. For many organizations this is a perfectly reasonable way to informally compensate folks for the many hours of unpaid work they do. It might be the case, in the long run, however, that this tendency undercuts our ability to serve folks/ grow our shops. Are there shops where this has been an issue? Useful ways of addressing it? best, kyle
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 10:10 AM, allison karow bike.saviours@gmail.comwrote:
at our shop we have a "fancy parts" case in which we place everything that is too nice to go in the bins.
all parts are priced at what we call ebay level, which means we research each part and price it so that it cannot be resold for a profit (more or less). ( i look at craigslist, ebay, and new price parts online and find something fair.)
all parts in the fancy case are available for cash OR work trade, which is $8/hour. if someone wants to do work trade they can check in with the greeter and be assigned a task (from a list on our whiteboard) according to their skill level. we don't really have a problem with letting people do work trade for nice parts, why shouldn't they be able to get a nice part if they don't have the money but are willing to do the work?
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM, reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.comwrote:
bingo
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM, R Points poster@richpoints.com wrote:
Nice stuff pays the bills! End of story
rachael spiewak wrote:
We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran joshuagoran@gmail.comwrote:
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh
On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.orgwrote:
What to do with the nice stuff?
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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-- www.renobikeproject.com Wed-Sat 11-6pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
Please let us know if you would like to unsubscribe to our email list.
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that has been an issue at our shop, so we made a rule: no staff can buy a fancy part unless it has been sitting on the shelf for more than a month. i think there are better ways of appreciating a volunteer staff - volunteer appreciation events (we went to gameworks!), the satisfaction of doing good work, etc. be creative!
plus the volunteers can still buy the part, they just have to wait a month. i agree that letting staff have dibs undercuts the shops' ability to serve the community - plus it just looks bad (like embezzlement bad) when all the staff have shiny new things and everyone else is left digging through rusty buckets. :)
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:19 AM, kyle mckinley bicirider@gmail.com wrote:
I like the perspective that Allison offers; it pretty neatly matches the way that BICAS and Bike Church Santa Cruz tend to think (generally). bike church offers work trade at $10/hr, BICAS at $8/hr (I think that's still accurate). By emphasizing that anyone can buy any of the stuff (with cash or labor), we become more invested in building a functional worktrade system. For now, of course, it is usually a big drain on skilled mechanic's time. The hope is that we can figure out strategies through which that (unskilled) labor reaps rewards for the shop/collective that are equal to the worktrade wage. It seems to me like the shop benefits in either of the scenarios suggested; charging a near-market price sure helps pay the rent. It becomes only a problem if parts are radically under-valued (and cherry-picked for profit) or over-priced (and fully functional stuff sit around as fetish items... not that pretty parts can't just be pretty some times, but we've all seen those shops that have no interest in helping people actually ride their bikes). This thread (subtly) raises another important topic: at many shops the best parts get snagged by mechanics/ committed volunteers. I have certainly been as guilty of this as the next person. For many organizations this is a perfectly reasonable way to informally compensate folks for the many hours of unpaid work they do. It might be the case, in the long run, however, that this tendency undercuts our ability to serve folks/ grow our shops. Are there shops where this has been an issue? Useful ways of addressing it? best, kyle
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 10:10 AM, allison karow bike.saviours@gmail.comwrote:
at our shop we have a "fancy parts" case in which we place everything that is too nice to go in the bins.
all parts are priced at what we call ebay level, which means we research each part and price it so that it cannot be resold for a profit (more or less). ( i look at craigslist, ebay, and new price parts online and find something fair.)
all parts in the fancy case are available for cash OR work trade, which is $8/hour. if someone wants to do work trade they can check in with the greeter and be assigned a task (from a list on our whiteboard) according to their skill level. we don't really have a problem with letting people do work trade for nice parts, why shouldn't they be able to get a nice part if they don't have the money but are willing to do the work?
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM, reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.comwrote:
bingo
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM, R Points poster@richpoints.com wrote:
Nice stuff pays the bills! End of story
rachael spiewak wrote:
We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran joshuagoran@gmail.comwrote:
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh
On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org wrote:
What to do with the nice stuff?
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We're similar to bike saviours policy. Donated bikes have a 2 week waiting period before they can be purchased by volunteers but we're more flexible on parts. At least this time of year, we don't have much time to work on our own projects anyway.
This is a great thread. I would love to implement work-trade, but as many here stated, it takes so much volunteer time to supervise.
For the folks here that have functioning work-trade systems do you:
1.) cap work-trade earnings at a dollar amount? (for instance, if someone wanted to buy a $400 bike, could they work the entire amount off) 2.) limit work-trade to certain income levels in any way? 3.) have specific tasks for work-traders, or a specific person to supervise work-trade? 4.) limit work-trade to specific times throughout the week, maybe on a set night?
Thanks, Brian
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 6:22 AM, allison karow bike.saviours@gmail.comwrote:
that has been an issue at our shop, so we made a rule: no staff can buy a fancy part unless it has been sitting on the shelf for more than a month. i think there are better ways of appreciating a volunteer staff - volunteer appreciation events (we went to gameworks!), the satisfaction of doing good work, etc. be creative!
plus the volunteers can still buy the part, they just have to wait a month. i agree that letting staff have dibs undercuts the shops' ability to serve the community - plus it just looks bad (like embezzlement bad) when all the staff have shiny new things and everyone else is left digging through rusty buckets. :)
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:19 AM, kyle mckinley bicirider@gmail.comwrote:
I like the perspective that Allison offers; it pretty neatly matches the way that BICAS and Bike Church Santa Cruz tend to think (generally). bike church offers work trade at $10/hr, BICAS at $8/hr (I think that's still accurate). By emphasizing that anyone can buy any of the stuff (with cash or labor), we become more invested in building a functional worktrade system. For now, of course, it is usually a big drain on skilled mechanic's time. The hope is that we can figure out strategies through which that (unskilled) labor reaps rewards for the shop/collective that are equal to the worktrade wage. It seems to me like the shop benefits in either of the scenarios suggested; charging a near-market price sure helps pay the rent. It becomes only a problem if parts are radically under-valued (and cherry-picked for profit) or over-priced (and fully functional stuff sit around as fetish items... not that pretty parts can't just be pretty some times, but we've all seen those shops that have no interest in helping people actually ride their bikes). This thread (subtly) raises another important topic: at many shops the best parts get snagged by mechanics/ committed volunteers. I have certainly been as guilty of this as the next person. For many organizations this is a perfectly reasonable way to informally compensate folks for the many hours of unpaid work they do. It might be the case, in the long run, however, that this tendency undercuts our ability to serve folks/ grow our shops. Are there shops where this has been an issue? Useful ways of addressing it? best, kyle
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 10:10 AM, allison karow bike.saviours@gmail.comwrote:
at our shop we have a "fancy parts" case in which we place everything that is too nice to go in the bins.
all parts are priced at what we call ebay level, which means we research each part and price it so that it cannot be resold for a profit (more or less). ( i look at craigslist, ebay, and new price parts online and find something fair.)
all parts in the fancy case are available for cash OR work trade, which is $8/hour. if someone wants to do work trade they can check in with the greeter and be assigned a task (from a list on our whiteboard) according to their skill level. we don't really have a problem with letting people do work trade for nice parts, why shouldn't they be able to get a nice part if they don't have the money but are willing to do the work?
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM, reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.comwrote:
bingo
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM, R Points poster@richpoints.comwrote:
Nice stuff pays the bills! End of story
rachael spiewak wrote:
We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran <joshuagoran@gmail.com > wrote:
> I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op > in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it > is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with > labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the > goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the > most sense to me. > Josh > > On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, > thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org wrote: > > What to do with the nice stuff? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to > TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org > To manage your subscription, plase visit: > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... > >
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-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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-- www.renobikeproject.com Wed-Sat 11-6pm 541 E. 4th Street. Reno, NV 89512 775.323.4488
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- no, work trade is unlimited.
- no, work trade is available to everyone. the only exception is that
sometimes we have given things away to very needy people who are physically or mentally unable to do work trade. 3)yes and yes - we have a white board in our office with a list of things that can be done for work trade (i e size/label frames, take apart bad wheels, organize wheel wall, sweep floor, sort parts, clean bathroom etc. etc. ). the greeter assigns work trade tasks when the work trader arrives and initials their work trade sheet when they are done for the day. they track "purchases' on the same sheet. this is all tracked in a binder at the greeter desk, and it takes no more time than writing a regular receipt. 4) right now work trade can happen during regular shop hours, but if a work trader wants to help with a bigger project we can invite them to come in when we are closed. for example to build bike racks, shop structures, or for major clean up days. in fact, we would never finish most of this stuff without work trade!!*
*if it is just too busy to supervise a work trader i just get their number and call them when i or someone else needs help with a project, and we set up an appointment.
i like this thread too! weeeee
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
We're similar to bike saviours policy. Donated bikes have a 2 week waiting period before they can be purchased by volunteers but we're more flexible on parts. At least this time of year, we don't have much time to work on our own projects anyway.
This is a great thread. I would love to implement work-trade, but as many here stated, it takes so much volunteer time to supervise.
For the folks here that have functioning work-trade systems do you:
1.) cap work-trade earnings at a dollar amount? (for instance, if someone wanted to buy a $400 bike, could they work the entire amount off) 2.) limit work-trade to certain income levels in any way? 3.) have specific tasks for work-traders, or a specific person to supervise work-trade? 4.) limit work-trade to specific times throughout the week, maybe on a set night?
Thanks, Brian
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 6:22 AM, allison karow bike.saviours@gmail.comwrote:
that has been an issue at our shop, so we made a rule: no staff can buy a fancy part unless it has been sitting on the shelf for more than a month. i think there are better ways of appreciating a volunteer staff - volunteer appreciation events (we went to gameworks!), the satisfaction of doing good work, etc. be creative!
plus the volunteers can still buy the part, they just have to wait a month. i agree that letting staff have dibs undercuts the shops' ability to serve the community - plus it just looks bad (like embezzlement bad) when all the staff have shiny new things and everyone else is left digging through rusty buckets. :)
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:19 AM, kyle mckinley bicirider@gmail.comwrote:
I like the perspective that Allison offers; it pretty neatly matches the way that BICAS and Bike Church Santa Cruz tend to think (generally). bike church offers work trade at $10/hr, BICAS at $8/hr (I think that's still accurate). By emphasizing that anyone can buy any of the stuff (with cash or labor), we become more invested in building a functional worktrade system. For now, of course, it is usually a big drain on skilled mechanic's time. The hope is that we can figure out strategies through which that (unskilled) labor reaps rewards for the shop/collective that are equal to the worktrade wage. It seems to me like the shop benefits in either of the scenarios suggested; charging a near-market price sure helps pay the rent. It becomes only a problem if parts are radically under-valued (and cherry-picked for profit) or over-priced (and fully functional stuff sit around as fetish items... not that pretty parts can't just be pretty some times, but we've all seen those shops that have no interest in helping people actually ride their bikes). This thread (subtly) raises another important topic: at many shops the best parts get snagged by mechanics/ committed volunteers. I have certainly been as guilty of this as the next person. For many organizations this is a perfectly reasonable way to informally compensate folks for the many hours of unpaid work they do. It might be the case, in the long run, however, that this tendency undercuts our ability to serve folks/ grow our shops. Are there shops where this has been an issue? Useful ways of addressing it? best, kyle
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 10:10 AM, allison karow <bike.saviours@gmail.com
wrote:
at our shop we have a "fancy parts" case in which we place everything that is too nice to go in the bins.
all parts are priced at what we call ebay level, which means we research each part and price it so that it cannot be resold for a profit (more or less). ( i look at craigslist, ebay, and new price parts online and find something fair.)
all parts in the fancy case are available for cash OR work trade, which is $8/hour. if someone wants to do work trade they can check in with the greeter and be assigned a task (from a list on our whiteboard) according to their skill level. we don't really have a problem with letting people do work trade for nice parts, why shouldn't they be able to get a nice part if they don't have the money but are willing to do the work?
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:51 PM, reno bikes <renobikeproject@gmail.com
wrote:
bingo
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM, R Points poster@richpoints.comwrote:
Nice stuff pays the bills! End of story
rachael spiewak wrote:
We toss nice stuff in a cabinet and try not to make a big deal out of it. Some savvy folks know about it and ask if they can take a look, and they usually give more than our $5/part suggested donation. We'll offer some of those parts to folks doing a bike build when we just can't find anything that will work for them from our ordinary pool of parts. We'd rather see that stuff go on a bike and get someone on the road than let it sit and have someone be stuck. And that's why some of our frankenbikes have strange aerodynamic carbon fiber forks sometimes. It's pretty amusing. Of course, there's the usual volunteer cherrypicking, and that's fine. We don't log hours, so it's all on an honor system, which still seems to work for us.
We did have sort of a long conversation about whether we should have a glass case or an ebay account, and we landed on not doing those things because we'd rather keep our resources circulating locally and we don't want to make an obvious visual distinction between classes of parts. We do struggle with having varied access to parts and tools depending upon fragility, ability to wreck your bike, safety issues, and cost, so the system isn't perfect, but it's good enough for now.
-rachael
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE < urbanbikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
> "you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor" > > That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled > labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more > skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and > would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We > have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are > subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff. > > Brian > > (the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!) > > > Urban Bike Project of Wilmington > -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- > 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the > building) > Wilmington, DE 19802 > > Hours: > Thursday 6:30-9:00 > Saturday 1:00-4:00 > > Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org > > > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran < > joshuagoran@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike >> Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, >> and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good >> parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take >> all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system >> makes the most sense to me. >> Josh >> >> On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, >> thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org wrote: >> >> What to do with the nice stuff? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Thethinktank mailing list >> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org >> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to >> TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org >> To manage your subscription, plase visit: >> >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to > TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org > To manage your subscription, plase visit: > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... > >
-- Sopo Bicycle Cooperative 404-425-9989 www.sopobikes.org
Hours of operation: Tues, Wed, & Thurs 7 pm - 10 pm Sat & Sun 2 pm - 6 pm
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As a collective, the best way to handle the good stuff is to create a culture that values these items. Let everyone know that this stuff can pay the rent! Work for an understanding that EVERYONE benefits when you can sell this stuff for a higher-than-normal price.
Our volunteer staff is pretty savvy about the good stuff, and they will frequently be the ones paying higher prices for these items. That becomes a win-win, when we can sell items at half retail value, and they can acquire items at half retail.
Employ a mentality of get your people on your side rather than imposing rules. Rather than being repressed by the man, they ARE the man.
Wilbur Ince Sibley Bike Depot Saint Paul, MN
Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE wrote:
"you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor"
That's interesting. At UBP we have almost a surplus of un-skilled labor already, so work-trade actually takes skilled volunteer away from more skilled tasks to supervise. That's why we don't really do it anymore and would rather have the cash for rent, especially from the nice stuff. We have bikes starting at $5 which take more time/parts to fix, and are subsidized by us getting money from the fancy stuff.
Brian
(the tax/paying mechanic replies were spot on, thanks!)
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington -a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19802
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Joshua Goran <joshuagoran@gmail.com mailto:joshuagoran@gmail.com> wrote:
I know that the co-op I am most familiar with, Ohio City Bike Co-op in Cleveland, OH has a showcase(s) or bin that the good parts go in, and it is used along with work-trading so that you can ONLY buy the good parts with labor, so that people can't just come in, flash money, and take all the goods that could be used as incentive for volunteers. That system makes the most sense to me. Josh On May 12, 2009, at 4:08 PM, thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org <mailto:thethinktank-request@bikecollectives.org> wrote:What to do with the nice stuff?_______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org <mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org> To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
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participants (8)
-
allison karow -
Joshua Goran -
kyle mckinley -
R Points -
rachael spiewak -
reno bikes -
Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE -
Wilbur Ince