Re: [TheThinkTank] Thethinktank Digest, Vol 180, Issue 2
Thanks for the replies. That is helpful.
However, I guess I'm still not clear whether e-bike conversions we do at the shop (rather than club rides with rider owned e-bikes) would be covered by general liability insurance.
Does anyone have any further insights?
Cheers, Phoenix
On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 4:10 PM < thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org> wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Thethinktank digest..." Today's Topics:
- E-bike conversion insurance? (Adam-Phoenix Mitchell)
- Re: E-bike conversion insurance? (Jesse Cooper)
- Re: E-bike conversion insurance? (maggie@river2sealoop.org)
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adam-Phoenix Mitchell mitch.ad@gmail.com To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:14:41 -0400 Subject: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance? Hello all,
We are trying to determine if we need insurance (beyond general liability) to cover e-bike conversions on used bikes. Not totally sure if general liability insurance would cover this and I assume it may depend on the carrier.
I'm also not totally clear why there would be any difference between this and a normal refurbished bike we sell, in terms of liability.
Any insights would be appreciated!
Cheers, Phoenix Freeride Montpelier Community Bike Shop
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jesse Cooper jessecooper0@gmail.com To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:41:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance? I think the take away I got from bike shop forums was an issue of battery fires at the worst end of the spectrum, and endangerment from improper installations at the the other end. I don't about the Us, but in so called canada there's also liability issues if systems are tuned to exceed.30km under motor power, either throttle or assist. It's worth checking your municipal as well as state and federal ebike codes. 🤷♀️
On Fri., Sep. 10, 2021, 07:15 Adam-Phoenix Mitchell mitch.ad@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
We are trying to determine if we need insurance (beyond general liability) to cover e-bike conversions on used bikes. Not totally sure if general liability insurance would cover this and I assume it may depend on the carrier.
I'm also not totally clear why there would be any difference between this and a normal refurbished bike we sell, in terms of liability.
Any insights would be appreciated!
Cheers, Phoenix Freeride Montpelier Community Bike Shop ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: maggie@river2sealoop.org To: "'The Think Tank'" thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 14:24:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance?
Here is the notice from our insurance company that we get through League of American bicyclists. I read this to mean any bike that meets the Class 1 or Class 3 (pedal assist) legal criteria is covered by them and that has been their policy consistently. Class 2’s (throttle) are not covered and never have been.
*From:* Rene Waterson rwaterson@americanspecialty.com *Sent:* Friday, August 27, 2021 9:02 AM *Subject:* Electric Bikes - Clarification on Coverage
Club Leaders:
There has been some confusion relative to how the League’s liability insurance program applies to the use of electric bicycles during club activities. The purpose of this correspondence is to clarify the intent of the liability policy. It is important to note that coverage for electric bicycles for club activities has not changed from prior years and is consistent with what we believe to be industry standards.
For the purposes of this communication, the definition of electric bicycle is consistent with the CPSC definition https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cpsc.gov%2FBusiness--Manufacturing%2FBusiness-Education%2FBusiness-Guidance%2FBicycle-Requirements&data=04%7C01%7Crwaterson%40americanspecialty.com%7Cbf3bdc41bc594bb45bdf08d968b08a90%7Cf1289cc584564f288eab700d1300fc5d%7C0%7C0%7C637655929872842586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OXqLlm2ETuEWZgYmgdQks75hsVELtoDoJEMegbN6fbs%3D&reserved=0 and the League’s position https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbikeleague.org%2Fcontent%2Fwhat-know-about-e-bikes&data=04%7C01%7Crwaterson%40americanspecialty.com%7Cbf3bdc41bc594bb45bdf08d968b08a90%7Cf1289cc584564f288eab700d1300fc5d%7C0%7C0%7C637655929872842586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=LSqwnJoNcT8%2FJjDqdFn9VMJ3ka2ydvkHvWmtASRn2L4%3D&reserved=0 on electric bicycles:
- Class 1 electric bicycle shall mean an electric bicycle equipped
with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
- Class 2 electric bicycle shall mean an electric bicycle equipped
with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
- Class 3 electric bicycle shall mean an electric bicycle equipped
with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.
Based on the language from the insurance policy, losses arising from the use of a Class 2 electric bicycle would not be covered under the League’s club insurance program. Again, this is consistent with prior year’s coverage and our understanding of industry standards. Given that it could be difficult for a Club to determine which class of an electric bicycle is being used during club activities, clubs may consider notifying club members and club activity participants that Class 2 electric bicycles are not permitted. This is a business decision for the Club. We have created a sample acknowledgement for users of electric bicycles for the club’s consideration. Please note utilizing this acknowledgement is NOT an insurance requirement and should be reviewed with the club’s local legal counsel prior to implementing. The acknowledgement should remain independent of the standard release of liability waiver (in other words, we do not recommend combining the two or replacing one with the other).
We realize that some clubs may have been notified during the 2021 policy period that Class 3 electric bicycles are not covered and we apologize for the confusion. Please note that this is a summary of coverage and the policy will govern any discrepancies between this summary and the actual policy. If you have any questions or would like to discuss further, please do not hesitate to reach out to Rene Waterson at rwaterson@americanspeicalty.com.
Thanks!
Rene
*Rene Waterson, AIS, AINS *| Account Manager, Special Programs
American Specialty Insurance & Risk Services, Inc.
7609 W Jefferson Blvd, Suite 100, Fort Wayne, IN 46804
Direct: 260-969-5392 | Toll Free: 800-245-2744
americanspecialty.com
americanspecialtyexpress.com
[image: Image result for linkedin link photo] https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-specialty-insurance-&-risk-services-inc-/
IMPORTANT: Please note that American Specialty cannot bind, alter, or cancel any coverage without speaking to, and receiving confirmation from, a licensed agent. Further note that American Specialty Insurance & Risk Services, Inc. also conducts business as A.S.I.R.S.I. Insurance Agency in the state of California, American Specialty Insurance & Risk Services Agency in the state of Michigan, and A S Insurance & Risk Services Agency in the state of New York. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is privileged and confidential. It is intended only for the exclusive use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. NOTE: Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and its attachments (if any) are free from any virus, the recipient should, in keeping with good computing practice, also check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone immediately at 260-969-5203 or e-mail at contact@americanspecialty.com. Thank you.
*From:* Thethinktank thethinktank-bounces@lists.bikecollectives.org *On Behalf Of *Jesse Cooper *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 11:41 AM *To:* The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org *Subject:* Re: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance?
I think the take away I got from bike shop forums was an issue of battery fires at the worst end of the spectrum, and endangerment from improper installations at the the other end. I don't about the Us, but in so called canada there's also liability issues if systems are tuned to exceed.30km under motor power, either throttle or assist. It's worth checking your municipal as well as state and federal ebike codes. 🤷♀️
On Fri., Sep. 10, 2021, 07:15 Adam-Phoenix Mitchell mitch.ad@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
We are trying to determine if we need insurance (beyond general liability) to cover e-bike conversions on used bikes. Not totally sure if general liability insurance would cover this and I assume it may depend on the carrier.
I'm also not totally clear why there would be any difference between this and a normal refurbished bike we sell, in terms of liability.
Any insights would be appreciated!
Cheers,
Phoenix
Freeride Montpelier Community Bike Shop
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
When in doubt, ask your insurance agent. They will have more information about your policy than others will be able to give you. Our insurance company specifically asks us if we are dealing with e-bikes and requires a separate policy that would be expensive to maintain.
Thanks, Corey Eichelberger
On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 9:31 AM Adam-Phoenix Mitchell mitch.ad@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the replies. That is helpful.
However, I guess I'm still not clear whether e-bike conversions we do at the shop (rather than club rides with rider owned e-bikes) would be covered by general liability insurance.
Does anyone have any further insights?
Cheers, Phoenix
On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 4:10 PM < thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org> wrote:
Send Thethinktank mailing list submissions to thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to thethinktank-request@lists.bikecollectives.org
You can reach the person managing the list at thethinktank-owner@lists.bikecollectives.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Thethinktank digest..." Today's Topics:
- E-bike conversion insurance? (Adam-Phoenix Mitchell)
- Re: E-bike conversion insurance? (Jesse Cooper)
- Re: E-bike conversion insurance? (maggie@river2sealoop.org)
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adam-Phoenix Mitchell mitch.ad@gmail.com To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:14:41 -0400 Subject: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance? Hello all,
We are trying to determine if we need insurance (beyond general liability) to cover e-bike conversions on used bikes. Not totally sure if general liability insurance would cover this and I assume it may depend on the carrier.
I'm also not totally clear why there would be any difference between this and a normal refurbished bike we sell, in terms of liability.
Any insights would be appreciated!
Cheers, Phoenix Freeride Montpelier Community Bike Shop
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jesse Cooper jessecooper0@gmail.com To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:41:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance? I think the take away I got from bike shop forums was an issue of battery fires at the worst end of the spectrum, and endangerment from improper installations at the the other end. I don't about the Us, but in so called canada there's also liability issues if systems are tuned to exceed.30km under motor power, either throttle or assist. It's worth checking your municipal as well as state and federal ebike codes. 🤷♀️
On Fri., Sep. 10, 2021, 07:15 Adam-Phoenix Mitchell mitch.ad@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
We are trying to determine if we need insurance (beyond general liability) to cover e-bike conversions on used bikes. Not totally sure if general liability insurance would cover this and I assume it may depend on the carrier.
I'm also not totally clear why there would be any difference between this and a normal refurbished bike we sell, in terms of liability.
Any insights would be appreciated!
Cheers, Phoenix Freeride Montpelier Community Bike Shop ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: maggie@river2sealoop.org To: "'The Think Tank'" thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 14:24:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance?
Here is the notice from our insurance company that we get through League of American bicyclists. I read this to mean any bike that meets the Class 1 or Class 3 (pedal assist) legal criteria is covered by them and that has been their policy consistently. Class 2’s (throttle) are not covered and never have been.
*From:* Rene Waterson rwaterson@americanspecialty.com *Sent:* Friday, August 27, 2021 9:02 AM *Subject:* Electric Bikes - Clarification on Coverage
Club Leaders:
There has been some confusion relative to how the League’s liability insurance program applies to the use of electric bicycles during club activities. The purpose of this correspondence is to clarify the intent of the liability policy. It is important to note that coverage for electric bicycles for club activities has not changed from prior years and is consistent with what we believe to be industry standards.
For the purposes of this communication, the definition of electric bicycle is consistent with the CPSC definition https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cpsc.gov%2FBusiness--Manufacturing%2FBusiness-Education%2FBusiness-Guidance%2FBicycle-Requirements&data=04%7C01%7Crwaterson%40americanspecialty.com%7Cbf3bdc41bc594bb45bdf08d968b08a90%7Cf1289cc584564f288eab700d1300fc5d%7C0%7C0%7C637655929872842586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OXqLlm2ETuEWZgYmgdQks75hsVELtoDoJEMegbN6fbs%3D&reserved=0 and the League’s position https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbikeleague.org%2Fcontent%2Fwhat-know-about-e-bikes&data=04%7C01%7Crwaterson%40americanspecialty.com%7Cbf3bdc41bc594bb45bdf08d968b08a90%7Cf1289cc584564f288eab700d1300fc5d%7C0%7C0%7C637655929872842586%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=LSqwnJoNcT8%2FJjDqdFn9VMJ3ka2ydvkHvWmtASRn2L4%3D&reserved=0 on electric bicycles:
- Class 1 electric bicycle shall mean an electric bicycle equipped
with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
- Class 2 electric bicycle shall mean an electric bicycle equipped
with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
- Class 3 electric bicycle shall mean an electric bicycle equipped
with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.
Based on the language from the insurance policy, losses arising from the use of a Class 2 electric bicycle would not be covered under the League’s club insurance program. Again, this is consistent with prior year’s coverage and our understanding of industry standards. Given that it could be difficult for a Club to determine which class of an electric bicycle is being used during club activities, clubs may consider notifying club members and club activity participants that Class 2 electric bicycles are not permitted. This is a business decision for the Club. We have created a sample acknowledgement for users of electric bicycles for the club’s consideration. Please note utilizing this acknowledgement is NOT an insurance requirement and should be reviewed with the club’s local legal counsel prior to implementing. The acknowledgement should remain independent of the standard release of liability waiver (in other words, we do not recommend combining the two or replacing one with the other).
We realize that some clubs may have been notified during the 2021 policy period that Class 3 electric bicycles are not covered and we apologize for the confusion. Please note that this is a summary of coverage and the policy will govern any discrepancies between this summary and the actual policy. If you have any questions or would like to discuss further, please do not hesitate to reach out to Rene Waterson at rwaterson@americanspeicalty.com.
Thanks!
Rene
*Rene Waterson, AIS, AINS *| Account Manager, Special Programs
American Specialty Insurance & Risk Services, Inc.
7609 W Jefferson Blvd, Suite 100, Fort Wayne, IN 46804
Direct: 260-969-5392 | Toll Free: 800-245-2744
americanspecialty.com
americanspecialtyexpress.com
[image: Image result for linkedin link photo] https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-specialty-insurance-&-risk-services-inc-/
IMPORTANT: Please note that American Specialty cannot bind, alter, or cancel any coverage without speaking to, and receiving confirmation from, a licensed agent. Further note that American Specialty Insurance & Risk Services, Inc. also conducts business as A.S.I.R.S.I. Insurance Agency in the state of California, American Specialty Insurance & Risk Services Agency in the state of Michigan, and A S Insurance & Risk Services Agency in the state of New York. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this communication, including attachments, is privileged and confidential. It is intended only for the exclusive use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. NOTE: Although we have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and its attachments (if any) are free from any virus, the recipient should, in keeping with good computing practice, also check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone immediately at 260-969-5203 or e-mail at contact@americanspecialty.com. Thank you.
*From:* Thethinktank thethinktank-bounces@lists.bikecollectives.org *On Behalf Of *Jesse Cooper *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 11:41 AM *To:* The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org *Subject:* Re: [TheThinkTank] E-bike conversion insurance?
I think the take away I got from bike shop forums was an issue of battery fires at the worst end of the spectrum, and endangerment from improper installations at the the other end. I don't about the Us, but in so called canada there's also liability issues if systems are tuned to exceed.30km under motor power, either throttle or assist. It's worth checking your municipal as well as state and federal ebike codes. 🤷♀️
On Fri., Sep. 10, 2021, 07:15 Adam-Phoenix Mitchell mitch.ad@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
We are trying to determine if we need insurance (beyond general liability) to cover e-bike conversions on used bikes. Not totally sure if general liability insurance would cover this and I assume it may depend on the carrier.
I'm also not totally clear why there would be any difference between this and a normal refurbished bike we sell, in terms of liability.
Any insights would be appreciated!
Cheers,
Phoenix
Freeride Montpelier Community Bike Shop
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
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participants (2)
-
Adam-Phoenix Mitchell -
Corey Eichelberger