At re-Cycles we have been careful in nurturing our relationships with
the LBSs, and it concurs with what Troy writes about BICAS. But we
do not sell any new items outside of cables, and even then only if a
used one is not available. If people want locks or whatever we
direct them to the nearest shop.

I worked for a few busy seasons at McCrank's Cycles here in Ottawa.
Even before I started there the owner (Peter) let us purchase
catalogue items through him for cost plus 10%, and this is only for
items we cannot get donated to us from MEC. While I was working for
him I was also volunteering at re-Cycles (and in my current Director
role) and we saw no big conflict of interest. His bike prices start
at $450, while ours are at $45, so there's no competition there. And
he would happily direct people to us if they asked about a local DIY
repair or 2nd-hand shop (and let me give "the speech" if I was
around), and always kept our brochures on hand.

We return the favour by picking up his scrap metal and adding it to
ours on our way to the recyclers. We even pore over his first
because sometimes he is scrapping stuff that is simply old and being
replaced at a customer's request, but not yet scrap. Also, each year
he donates a few bikes to us that have gone unclaimed over the
previous year.

So yes, there ideally should be no conflicts - it's all about people
on bikes, wherever the bikes are bought and wherever they get fixed!

Mark Rehder - Director http://re-cycles.ca

On 28-Feb-08, at 3:07 AM, troy neiman wrote:

I would like to agree with Jonathan and add to his points of
establishing communication with your LBS.

Keep in mind that the more people on bikes is better for everyone
and especially bike shop business in general. I have found that in
the case of anyone that is buying/fixing a bike at our community
shop will inevitably need a retail store to buy parts/labor from at
some point, and might I add that many folks who come to BICAS are
just getting in to the idea of riding a bike for transportation and
will many times upgrade once they get to enjoy that idea.

Also, a bike rider that can fix their own flat tire, lube the chain
and diagnose the problems is a happy rider and far less likely to
become frustrated and stop riding all together.

At BICAS we do stock some necessary new parts such as cables, some
tubes and tires, chains, and simple locks/lights (priced the same
as LBS as not to undercut) which we order directly from QBP or J&B
importers. We do not advertise the new parts but make known the
availability of these items when needed. These are also the
distributors we use to get our tools.

I myself work part time at BICAS and part at the LBS and can say
first hand that this is an essential and benificial relationship
for both. We send many folks to the LBS for newer and specific
parts that we may not have and they send folks down for older, used
or obsolete parts that they don't have and it works great for
both. I have also noticed that when I tell someone about BICAS
when I am working at the LBS they are thrilled to know about the
resource and usually impressed at the honesty and collaboration
between the two, which equals loyal customers.

Truth is some people are Community bike people and some are bike
shop people and if we can work together that means more people on
bikes and more business for everyone so lets get people on bikes
people!

Troy Neiman BICAS Tucson, AZ

...

----- Original Message ----- From: "the816bikecollective Kansascity" the816bike@gmail.com To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike Shop Competition Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:22:44 -0500

Hey, I'm Sean with the not yet operational 816 Bicycle Collective
in Kansas City, MO. We've raised money already by holding a benefit event.
We had bands, food, and fun, and we charged a five dollar suggested
donation. In order to help us, we had some really kick ass bands. As far as
spare parts go, we've been posting all over the board asking for old parts for
the last 10 months. This actually created an excess of parts. In order to
try to avoid competition with the LBSs, we presented them (at their
request) with information about who we are and what we're doing.

There is one LBS in our area that has helped us getting tools at
cost, but they're an owner operated company that has long wondered where the collective was in KC. We're lucky. Basically, money and parts are
free, they just take a lot of organized effort. We have a cap of something
like $80 for all bike sales. We only sell bikes to raise funds, so basically we
don't sell bikes out of the shop. If there's a nice bike we come into
and we need money, we'll try to get it to someone via craigslist or word of
mouth.

One more thing, I personally work as a mechanic at an LBS (not the
owner operated one) and rather than an interview from my current
employer, I was basically interrogated as to how my being employed by him and being a volunteer at the collective was not a conflict of interest.

Again, we're not yet operational, so take this advice as you will.
Also feel free to check out our myspace page, http://www.myspace.com/the816bicyclecollective. Look at our blog
and you'll find some specifics about our soon to be operation. Best of luck!!!

-Sean in the 816

On 2/27/08, Stuart O Anderson soa@ri.cmu.edu wrote:

...

I'm familiar with Devil Gear, and they have some unique features
that make this difficult. Unlike most the LBS's we have in Pittsburgh, Devils Gear sells repaired used bikes in the 100-150 dollar range. That puts them in competition for both resources and market segments with a volunteer based community shop that's fixing up bikes for
sale. Last time I was in New Haven they were charging about double what we would have priced bikes for at Free Ride, but had a somewhat higher median quality of bike. They also stock a fair selection of new bikes.

I'd suggest that the New Haven collective try to avoid
competition for now by focusing on educational program rather than bike sales. I.E. offering a 3 week, 6 session class in bike mechanics for adults or offering a build-a-bike program to local youth organizations, or having a sponsored tune-up-day event at one of the local
universities. These sorts of programs take a little more effort to set up, but could be quite profitable.

We get our parts through QBP (Quality Bike Parts) - you'll need to have liability insurance to get an account with them.

Stuart

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan@slcbikecollective.org wrote:

...

Most of the problems I have seen in other cities are due to poor communication and misunderstandings. This is my pitch, it works
in salt lake city -- feel free to use, modify, and/or ignore it.

Community Bike Shops don't compete with Local Bike Shops (LBS),
instead

they

...

form a tight symbiotic relationship. Why?

First, we serve different demographics. We serve the people
that can't afford or are scared of the LBS. Someone can buy a bike from a
thrift

store

...

for $25, a bike from Walmart for $100 or a low end bike from a
LBS for

$350.

...

We sell bikes anywhere from $50 to $150, so if anything we
compete with Walmart, but they don't seem to care. If someone can't afford a
bike at your LBS, send them to us! If someone is looking for a nicer
bike and

has

...

money to spend we will send them to you!

Second, we create business for the LBS! While we have our own

distributor

...

accounts, they are reserved for our most dedicated volunteers,
everyone

else

...

we redirect to the LBS. Our shop is open from 5-9pm so we tell
them if

they

...

can make it make it to the LBS before it closes (7PM), they
could make

it

...

back in time to install the part.

Third, we are a tax writeoff! Get rid of used, new, old stock
and make

room

...

for things that can sell! Give it to us, and not only can you
go to

sleep

...

knowing it went into good hands -- you can get a much needed tax

writeoff.

...

We will also publicize the fact you help your community by doing
so.

Fourth, we are your source for future mechanics. Not sure who
to hire? While our volunteers don't always deal with the high-end bikes,
we can recommend potential employees based on the more important things
like

their

...

ability to learn, reliability, ability to take direction, and their

level of

...

customer service and passion for cycling. We train them to the
point

where

...

they could be molded into the perfect employee.

-- Sincerely,

Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org

Get Addicted to Crank! http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Cris Shirley cgshirley@gmail.com

wrote:

...

...

Hey! So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the
support of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said
that he would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well,
now he is feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a
direction that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we
have.) Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was
wondering if anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and
tires, and

chains?

...

Thanks cris