Hey guys,
Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty.
As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part of the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the beating heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding space, paint spraying space.
The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a learning bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop participants). These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and also a rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised in my own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've learned from reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts.
With the following considerations in place (below) could you add anything or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick
PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE
- Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and
stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one using that station has a clear line of sight right across workshop.
space for a blackboard/screen/ projector
6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood
section)
-Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS)
Lighting and electricity needs
Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top on my
last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different heights.
- Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding
station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom)
Welding and forge (?) station
what do i do with grease and oil stains?
Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered away so
that the workshop is multifunctional
- access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop access
from street)
Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many?
Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc)
Risk assessments, safety statement
lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more ambient
light, invite in natural light where possible
- heating and ventilation needs
Think about the floor, standing on concrete isn't very comfortable for long. We've got horse trailer mats at Bikechain and similar rubber mats at Bike Pirates but there are lots of different systems for making floors more comfortable.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Ulick O'Beirne ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Hey guys,
Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty.
As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part of the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the beating heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding space, paint spraying space.
The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a learning bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop participants). These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and also a rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised in my own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've learned from reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts.
With the following considerations in place (below) could you add anything or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick
PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE
- Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and
stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one using that station has a clear line of sight right across workshop.
space for a blackboard/screen/ projector
6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood
section)
-Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS)
Lighting and electricity needs
Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top on my
last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different heights.
- Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding
station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom)
Welding and forge (?) station
what do i do with grease and oil stains?
Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered away so
that the workshop is multifunctional
- access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop access
from street)
Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many?
Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc)
Risk assessments, safety statement
lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more ambient
light, invite in natural light where possible
- heating and ventilation needs
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
hi, how high is the ceiling and what is the shape of your space which way is north and where are the doors and windows make a drawing of your space then cut out squares/shapes that correspond to the program elements listed above. play with it or even make full size cardboard sheet things and play with that avoid peg board solid panels with nails and screws, painted outlines of tools works havefun jim
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:53 PM David Oliver nowhere3@gmail.com wrote:
Think about the floor, standing on concrete isn't very comfortable for long. We've got horse trailer mats at Bikechain and similar rubber mats at Bike Pirates but there are lots of different systems for making floors more comfortable.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Ulick O'Beirne ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Hey guys,
Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty.
As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part of the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the beating heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding space, paint spraying space.
The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a learning bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop participants). These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and also a rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised in my own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've learned from reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts.
With the following considerations in place (below) could you add anything or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick
PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE
- Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and
stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one using that station has a clear line of sight right across workshop.
space for a blackboard/screen/ projector
6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood
section)
-Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS)
Lighting and electricity needs
Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top on my
last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different heights.
- Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding
station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom)
Welding and forge (?) station
what do i do with grease and oil stains?
Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered away so
that the workshop is multifunctional
- access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop
access from street)
Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many?
Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc)
Risk assessments, safety statement
lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more
ambient light, invite in natural light where possible
- heating and ventilation needs
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
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Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Ulick,
Grease and oil stains: If they're on work surfaces, I say leave em'. It's a shop environment, it gets dirty.
Outlets - make sure they are strategically placed and enough of them. You should have a special area set aside for welding (where you install the outlet with the necessary voltage) unless you can ventilate the whole shop properly. I'd mark off the floor with hazard tape unless you have a whole separate room you can set aside, which would be nice since there's not a great need to blind random mechanics with the arc.
I don't know why you'd need a forge, unless you're doing serious professional framebuilding and fabrication.
Presentation apparatus: probably two separate setups, impromptu idea presenter via white or blackboard in the shop area; projector space should be elsewhere (in another room) because the latter could be more for inviting the general public (film festivals and the like) and should therefore be away from a shop environment.
Parts storage depends on the size of your space. If your space is huge, I'd recommend devoting a whole wall or corner to parts, so that they can be immediately available to mechanics. If not especially spacious, a separate room or building might be necessary.
Also regarding parts storage, imagine in advance what you want to have in stock - the quantity and range. If you're going for full spectrum (as we have), realize that your parts storage will be an ongoing curation process for the lifetime of the space. At the beginning, you may want to save everything in order to build up stock, but as you meet your storage limits it will be prudent to go over your caches and prune away the crappier parts. Or, you could be circumspect about part quality from the beginning, but that could be tricky since at a community bike shop part quality is highly relative. Imagining permanently sized and positioned spaces for each component is probably also a mistake, since all stock will swell and ebb over time and it will probably be pragmatic to relocate different component types to different bins or shelves repeatedly.
Regarding bike storage, I've said this before here, but I'll say it again: storing them vertically on walls or fences is very economical and ergonomic. It is, however, more difficult to use the space above them in that case because they sit taller than when both tires are on the ground, so decide what your priorities are.
Regarding tool storage, most of us seem to agree that basic tools should be duplicated at each workbench, while specialized tools should be stored separately. I would add: locked or not depending on your shop's security needs. We used to lock ours years ago, we don't any longer. I'm not sure I would find a separate bench for the specialized tools worth the cost in space (again, your specific square footage factors in).
Access: no stairs if possible. Ground level is best unless you're willing to make ramps.
Plumbing: eyewash stations are nice, and may be necessary for code in your area. A sink in the shop is nice if for no other reason than filling buckets to check tubes or filling water bottles. If you have outdoor space you should make sure you have a tap outside for hoses. We use ours mainly to water plants, but that's enough of a reason.
I'm not big on parts washers, but others disagree. I think you have to be very careful choosing the liquid used. Too weak and the washer is useless, too caustic and disposal is an environmental hazard.
Your lighting scheme sounds great.
Heating: insulate BEFORE you do anything else (well, other than plumbing and electrical). DO NOT fill the space with stuff and then insulate after the fact. It SUCKS. And be sure to insulate well! Heating bills will be drastically easier over time, and in cases where heat may go out having enough insulation means temporary heaters will do a better job.
Ventilation really depends on the size of the space. I find that large spaces need it much less.
Regarding pegboard as Jim mentioned, the melamine/masonite pegboard sucks (it falls apart and is susceptible to humidity), and I've heard metal pegboard gets the holes deformed over time. A friend just installed some heavy duty plastic pegboard though, and it feels and looks like it will last a long time. It was interesting. The benefit of pegboard of course being you can change positioning without having to rebuild the whole tool wall or fill it with more nail holes.
Jim's also on point in mentioning... Have Fun!! Getting these spaces ready for action can be extremely rewarding. If you build it, they will come :)
cyclista Nicholas
On 2019-02-08 04:02, Jim Bledsoe wrote:
hi, how high is the ceiling and what is the shape of your space which way is north and where are the doors and windows make a drawing of your space then cut out squares/shapes that correspond to the program elements listed above. play with it or even make full size cardboard sheet things and play with that avoid peg board solid panels with nails and screws, painted outlines of tools works havefun jim
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:53 PM David Oliver nowhere3@gmail.com wrote:
Think about the floor, standing on concrete isn't very comfortable for long. We've got horse trailer mats at Bikechain and similar rubber mats at Bike Pirates but there are lots of different systems for making floors more comfortable.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Ulick O'Beirne ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Hey guys,
Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty.
As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part of the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the beating heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding space, paint spraying space.
The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a learning bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop participants). These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and also a rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised in my own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've learned from reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts.
With the following considerations in place (below) could you add anything or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick
PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE
- Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and
stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one using that station has a clear line of sight right across workshop.
space for a blackboard/screen/ projector
6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood
section)
-Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS)
Lighting and electricity needs
Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top on
my last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different heights.
- Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding
station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom)
Welding and forge (?) station
what do i do with grease and oil stains?
Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered
away so that the workshop is multifunctional
- access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop
access from street)
Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many?
Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc)
Risk assessments, safety statement
lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more
ambient light, invite in natural light where possible
- heating and ventilation needs
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
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Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
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Wow Nicholas, John, and David; thanks so much. I'll be doing some drawings over the next few days and I'll share them here. We're putting a proposal to the local council to buy the building. so it'll probably be slow to find out if it's going ahead or not. More anon- U
On Fri 8 Feb 2019 at 07:39, Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
Ulick,
Grease and oil stains: If they're on work surfaces, I say leave em'. It's a shop environment, it gets dirty.
Outlets - make sure they are strategically placed and enough of them. You should have a special area set aside for welding (where you install the outlet with the necessary voltage) unless you can ventilate the whole shop properly. I'd mark off the floor with hazard tape unless you have a whole separate room you can set aside, which would be nice since there's not a great need to blind random mechanics with the arc.
I don't know why you'd need a forge, unless you're doing serious professional framebuilding and fabrication.
Presentation apparatus: probably two separate setups, impromptu idea presenter via white or blackboard in the shop area; projector space should be elsewhere (in another room) because the latter could be more for inviting the general public (film festivals and the like) and should therefore be away from a shop environment.
Parts storage depends on the size of your space. If your space is huge, I'd recommend devoting a whole wall or corner to parts, so that they can be immediately available to mechanics. If not especially spacious, a separate room or building might be necessary.
Also regarding parts storage, imagine in advance what you want to have in stock - the quantity and range. If you're going for full spectrum (as we have), realize that your parts storage will be an ongoing curation process for the lifetime of the space. At the beginning, you may want to save everything in order to build up stock, but as you meet your storage limits it will be prudent to go over your caches and prune away the crappier parts. Or, you could be circumspect about part quality from the beginning, but that could be tricky since at a community bike shop part quality is highly relative. Imagining permanently sized and positioned spaces for each component is probably also a mistake, since all stock will swell and ebb over time and it will probably be pragmatic to relocate different component types to different bins or shelves repeatedly.
Regarding bike storage, I've said this before here, but I'll say it again: storing them vertically on walls or fences is very economical and ergonomic. It is, however, more difficult to use the space above them in that case because they sit taller than when both tires are on the ground, so decide what your priorities are.
Regarding tool storage, most of us seem to agree that basic tools should be duplicated at each workbench, while specialized tools should be stored separately. I would add: locked or not depending on your shop's security needs. We used to lock ours years ago, we don't any longer. I'm not sure I would find a separate bench for the specialized tools worth the cost in space (again, your specific square footage factors in).
Access: no stairs if possible. Ground level is best unless you're willing to make ramps.
Plumbing: eyewash stations are nice, and may be necessary for code in your area. A sink in the shop is nice if for no other reason than filling buckets to check tubes or filling water bottles. If you have outdoor space you should make sure you have a tap outside for hoses. We use ours mainly to water plants, but that's enough of a reason.
I'm not big on parts washers, but others disagree. I think you have to be very careful choosing the liquid used. Too weak and the washer is useless, too caustic and disposal is an environmental hazard.
Your lighting scheme sounds great.
Heating: insulate BEFORE you do anything else (well, other than plumbing and electrical). DO NOT fill the space with stuff and then insulate after the fact. It SUCKS. And be sure to insulate well! Heating bills will be drastically easier over time, and in cases where heat may go out having enough insulation means temporary heaters will do a better job.
Ventilation really depends on the size of the space. I find that large spaces need it much less.
Regarding pegboard as Jim mentioned, the melamine/masonite pegboard sucks (it falls apart and is susceptible to humidity), and I've heard metal pegboard gets the holes deformed over time. A friend just installed some heavy duty plastic pegboard though, and it feels and looks like it will last a long time. It was interesting. The benefit of pegboard of course being you can change positioning without having to rebuild the whole tool wall or fill it with more nail holes.
Jim's also on point in mentioning... Have Fun!! Getting these spaces ready for action can be extremely rewarding. If you build it, they will come :)
cyclista Nicholas
On 2019-02-08 04:02, Jim Bledsoe wrote:
hi, how high is the ceiling and what is the shape of your space which way is north and where are the doors and windows make a drawing of your space then cut out squares/shapes that correspond to the program elements listed above. play with it or even make full size cardboard sheet things and play with that avoid peg board solid panels with nails and screws, painted outlines of tools works havefun jim
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:53 PM David Oliver nowhere3@gmail.com wrote:
Think about the floor, standing on concrete isn't very comfortable for long. We've got horse trailer mats at Bikechain and similar rubber mats at Bike Pirates but there are lots of different systems for making floors more comfortable.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Ulick O'Beirne ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Hey guys,
Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty.
As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part of the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the beating heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding space, paint spraying space.
The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a learning bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop participants). These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and also a rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised in my own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've learned from reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts.
With the following considerations in place (below) could you add anything or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick
PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE
- Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and
stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one using that station has a clear line of sight right across workshop.
space for a blackboard/screen/ projector
6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood
section)
-Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS)
Lighting and electricity needs
Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top on
my last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different heights.
- Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding
station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom)
Welding and forge (?) station
what do i do with grease and oil stains?
Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered
away so that the workshop is multifunctional
- access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop
access from street)
Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many?
Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc)
Risk assessments, safety statement
lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more
ambient light, invite in natural light where possible
- heating and ventilation needs
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
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http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
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Ulick,
What you're doing sounds amazing and I hope it works out for you. I wish some of the towns in the US had that vision and appreciation for non-profits. We've been discussing space with our city for going on three years and only now is there a glimmer of hope for indoor workspace. Nevertheless we persist. Good luck. Many of the ideas sound like my vision for our space, but it is rare to be able to design from the ground up.
BTW, my wife and I were in Dublin and Belfast last year. I'd love to go back and spend more time in Ireland - and to all the doubters, the Guinness does taste better over there!
Steve Andruski The Rockville Bike Hub
On Fri, Feb 8, 2019, 8:44 PM Ulick O'Beirne <ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Wow Nicholas, John, and David; thanks so much. I'll be doing some drawings over the next few days and I'll share them here. We're putting a proposal to the local council to buy the building. so it'll probably be slow to find out if it's going ahead or not. More anon- U
On Fri 8 Feb 2019 at 07:39, Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
Ulick,
Grease and oil stains: If they're on work surfaces, I say leave em'. It's a shop environment, it gets dirty.
Outlets - make sure they are strategically placed and enough of them. You should have a special area set aside for welding (where you install the outlet with the necessary voltage) unless you can ventilate the whole shop properly. I'd mark off the floor with hazard tape unless you have a whole separate room you can set aside, which would be nice since there's not a great need to blind random mechanics with the arc.
I don't know why you'd need a forge, unless you're doing serious professional framebuilding and fabrication.
Presentation apparatus: probably two separate setups, impromptu idea presenter via white or blackboard in the shop area; projector space should be elsewhere (in another room) because the latter could be more for inviting the general public (film festivals and the like) and should therefore be away from a shop environment.
Parts storage depends on the size of your space. If your space is huge, I'd recommend devoting a whole wall or corner to parts, so that they can be immediately available to mechanics. If not especially spacious, a separate room or building might be necessary.
Also regarding parts storage, imagine in advance what you want to have in stock - the quantity and range. If you're going for full spectrum (as we have), realize that your parts storage will be an ongoing curation process for the lifetime of the space. At the beginning, you may want to save everything in order to build up stock, but as you meet your storage limits it will be prudent to go over your caches and prune away the crappier parts. Or, you could be circumspect about part quality from the beginning, but that could be tricky since at a community bike shop part quality is highly relative. Imagining permanently sized and positioned spaces for each component is probably also a mistake, since all stock will swell and ebb over time and it will probably be pragmatic to relocate different component types to different bins or shelves repeatedly.
Regarding bike storage, I've said this before here, but I'll say it again: storing them vertically on walls or fences is very economical and ergonomic. It is, however, more difficult to use the space above them in that case because they sit taller than when both tires are on the ground, so decide what your priorities are.
Regarding tool storage, most of us seem to agree that basic tools should be duplicated at each workbench, while specialized tools should be stored separately. I would add: locked or not depending on your shop's security needs. We used to lock ours years ago, we don't any longer. I'm not sure I would find a separate bench for the specialized tools worth the cost in space (again, your specific square footage factors in).
Access: no stairs if possible. Ground level is best unless you're willing to make ramps.
Plumbing: eyewash stations are nice, and may be necessary for code in your area. A sink in the shop is nice if for no other reason than filling buckets to check tubes or filling water bottles. If you have outdoor space you should make sure you have a tap outside for hoses. We use ours mainly to water plants, but that's enough of a reason.
I'm not big on parts washers, but others disagree. I think you have to be very careful choosing the liquid used. Too weak and the washer is useless, too caustic and disposal is an environmental hazard.
Your lighting scheme sounds great.
Heating: insulate BEFORE you do anything else (well, other than plumbing and electrical). DO NOT fill the space with stuff and then insulate after the fact. It SUCKS. And be sure to insulate well! Heating bills will be drastically easier over time, and in cases where heat may go out having enough insulation means temporary heaters will do a better job.
Ventilation really depends on the size of the space. I find that large spaces need it much less.
Regarding pegboard as Jim mentioned, the melamine/masonite pegboard sucks (it falls apart and is susceptible to humidity), and I've heard metal pegboard gets the holes deformed over time. A friend just installed some heavy duty plastic pegboard though, and it feels and looks like it will last a long time. It was interesting. The benefit of pegboard of course being you can change positioning without having to rebuild the whole tool wall or fill it with more nail holes.
Jim's also on point in mentioning... Have Fun!! Getting these spaces ready for action can be extremely rewarding. If you build it, they will come :)
cyclista Nicholas
On 2019-02-08 04:02, Jim Bledsoe wrote:
hi, how high is the ceiling and what is the shape of your space which way is north and where are the doors and windows make a drawing of your space then cut out squares/shapes that correspond to the program elements listed above. play with it or even make full size cardboard sheet things and play with that avoid peg board solid panels with nails and screws, painted outlines of tools works havefun jim
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:53 PM David Oliver nowhere3@gmail.com wrote:
Think about the floor, standing on concrete isn't very comfortable for long. We've got horse trailer mats at Bikechain and similar rubber mats at Bike Pirates but there are lots of different systems for making floors more comfortable.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Ulick O'Beirne ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Hey guys,
Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty.
As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part of the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the beating heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding space, paint spraying space.
The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a learning bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop participants). These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and also a rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised in my own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've learned from reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts.
With the following considerations in place (below) could you add anything or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick
PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE
- Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and
stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one using that station has a clear line of sight right across workshop.
space for a blackboard/screen/ projector
6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood
section)
-Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS)
Lighting and electricity needs
Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top on
my last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different heights.
- Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding
station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom)
Welding and forge (?) station
what do i do with grease and oil stains?
Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered
away so that the workshop is multifunctional
- access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop
access from street)
Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many?
Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc)
Risk assessments, safety statement
lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more
ambient light, invite in natural light where possible
- heating and ventilation needs
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
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Thanks all for your input. Apologies- I said I'd get back in touch sooner. An architect friend did this sketch for me after I sent him my rough floor plan (both are attached).
Our proposal is going to the council in the next few weeks. You can read more about the larger project here: https://www.change.org/p/clodagh-henehan-corkcoco-ie-the-old-linen-hall-a-th...
Looking at floor space now. Initially I had asked for 10 metres x 10 metres of workshop space, and an additional 4m2 or storage space. But looks like we might have closer to 6 metres x 6 metres total. Of course I'm delighted with whatever we get.
Any thoughts on space? What size would your ideal workshop be? I visited a friends barn recently that was about 10m x 10m; and I thought, Gawd this could be lovely. Better than all the cramped spaces I'm used to working in. But maybe that's too big. We do have a community led bike rental scheme in the town http://clonbike.com/ and those bikes might eventually come live in the workshop too (60 bikes- though they're mostly out and about at docking stations). Obviously the more space the better, but what could feel just right?
Take care,
Ulick
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 at 02:59, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Ulick,
What you're doing sounds amazing and I hope it works out for you. I wish some of the towns in the US had that vision and appreciation for non-profits. We've been discussing space with our city for going on three years and only now is there a glimmer of hope for indoor workspace. Nevertheless we persist. Good luck. Many of the ideas sound like my vision for our space, but it is rare to be able to design from the ground up.
BTW, my wife and I were in Dublin and Belfast last year. I'd love to go back and spend more time in Ireland - and to all the doubters, the Guinness does taste better over there!
Steve Andruski The Rockville Bike Hub
On Fri, Feb 8, 2019, 8:44 PM Ulick O'Beirne <ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Wow Nicholas, John, and David; thanks so much. I'll be doing some drawings over the next few days and I'll share them here. We're putting a proposal to the local council to buy the building. so it'll probably be slow to find out if it's going ahead or not. More anon- U
On Fri 8 Feb 2019 at 07:39, Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
Ulick,
Grease and oil stains: If they're on work surfaces, I say leave em'. It's a shop environment, it gets dirty.
Outlets - make sure they are strategically placed and enough of them. You should have a special area set aside for welding (where you install the outlet with the necessary voltage) unless you can ventilate the whole shop properly. I'd mark off the floor with hazard tape unless you have a whole separate room you can set aside, which would be nice since there's not a great need to blind random mechanics with the arc.
I don't know why you'd need a forge, unless you're doing serious professional framebuilding and fabrication.
Presentation apparatus: probably two separate setups, impromptu idea presenter via white or blackboard in the shop area; projector space should be elsewhere (in another room) because the latter could be more for inviting the general public (film festivals and the like) and should therefore be away from a shop environment.
Parts storage depends on the size of your space. If your space is huge, I'd recommend devoting a whole wall or corner to parts, so that they can be immediately available to mechanics. If not especially spacious, a separate room or building might be necessary.
Also regarding parts storage, imagine in advance what you want to have in stock - the quantity and range. If you're going for full spectrum (as we have), realize that your parts storage will be an ongoing curation process for the lifetime of the space. At the beginning, you may want to save everything in order to build up stock, but as you meet your storage limits it will be prudent to go over your caches and prune away the crappier parts. Or, you could be circumspect about part quality from the beginning, but that could be tricky since at a community bike shop part quality is highly relative. Imagining permanently sized and positioned spaces for each component is probably also a mistake, since all stock will swell and ebb over time and it will probably be pragmatic to relocate different component types to different bins or shelves repeatedly.
Regarding bike storage, I've said this before here, but I'll say it again: storing them vertically on walls or fences is very economical and ergonomic. It is, however, more difficult to use the space above them in that case because they sit taller than when both tires are on the ground, so decide what your priorities are.
Regarding tool storage, most of us seem to agree that basic tools should be duplicated at each workbench, while specialized tools should be stored separately. I would add: locked or not depending on your shop's security needs. We used to lock ours years ago, we don't any longer. I'm not sure I would find a separate bench for the specialized tools worth the cost in space (again, your specific square footage factors in).
Access: no stairs if possible. Ground level is best unless you're willing to make ramps.
Plumbing: eyewash stations are nice, and may be necessary for code in your area. A sink in the shop is nice if for no other reason than filling buckets to check tubes or filling water bottles. If you have outdoor space you should make sure you have a tap outside for hoses. We use ours mainly to water plants, but that's enough of a reason.
I'm not big on parts washers, but others disagree. I think you have to be very careful choosing the liquid used. Too weak and the washer is useless, too caustic and disposal is an environmental hazard.
Your lighting scheme sounds great.
Heating: insulate BEFORE you do anything else (well, other than plumbing and electrical). DO NOT fill the space with stuff and then insulate after the fact. It SUCKS. And be sure to insulate well! Heating bills will be drastically easier over time, and in cases where heat may go out having enough insulation means temporary heaters will do a better job.
Ventilation really depends on the size of the space. I find that large spaces need it much less.
Regarding pegboard as Jim mentioned, the melamine/masonite pegboard sucks (it falls apart and is susceptible to humidity), and I've heard metal pegboard gets the holes deformed over time. A friend just installed some heavy duty plastic pegboard though, and it feels and looks like it will last a long time. It was interesting. The benefit of pegboard of course being you can change positioning without having to rebuild the whole tool wall or fill it with more nail holes.
Jim's also on point in mentioning... Have Fun!! Getting these spaces ready for action can be extremely rewarding. If you build it, they will come :)
cyclista Nicholas
On 2019-02-08 04:02, Jim Bledsoe wrote:
hi, how high is the ceiling and what is the shape of your space which way is north and where are the doors and windows make a drawing of your space then cut out squares/shapes that correspond to the program elements listed above. play with it or even make full size cardboard sheet things and play with that avoid peg board solid panels with nails and screws, painted outlines of tools works havefun jim
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:53 PM David Oliver nowhere3@gmail.com
wrote:
Think about the floor, standing on concrete isn't very comfortable for long. We've got horse trailer mats at Bikechain and similar rubber mats at Bike Pirates but there are lots of different systems for making
floors
more comfortable.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Ulick O'Beirne <ulickobeirne@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey guys,
Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty.
As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part of the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the beating heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding space, paint spraying space.
The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a learning bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop participants). These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and also a rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised in my own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've
learned
from reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts.
With the following considerations in place (below) could you add anything or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick
PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE
- Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and
stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one using that station has a clear line of sight right across workshop.
space for a blackboard/screen/ projector
6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood
section)
-Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS)
Lighting and electricity needs
Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top
on
my last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different heights.
- Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding
station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom)
Welding and forge (?) station
what do i do with grease and oil stains?
Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered
away so that the workshop is multifunctional
- access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop
access from street)
Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many?
Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc)
Risk assessments, safety statement
lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more
ambient light, invite in natural light where possible
- heating and ventilation needs
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If you get the 6mx6m size, and no additional storage, and you intend to have several people working in the space at at a time with additional people as visitors (typical use case) you'll have to scale back parts storage to small parts almost exclusively. Larger things like wheels, framesets, forks, baskets/racks, bags and tires will overload your square footage very quickly. Smaller items like derailers, nuts and bolts, lights, brake calipers and arms, brake pads, washers, all the tiny parts that glue the functions of a bike together could still be stored in fairly sizeable quantities. In addition to small parts storage, that size of space should be able to host three workstations with stands and a small retail area (if you need it), four workstations with stands if you don't need a retail or greeting area. This would be a fairly cramped layout, but properly arranged it could be very functional. Rough sketch.
With additional storage, depending on the size, you could get increased ability to sell whole bikes (as there's then a place to put some of the completed and in-progress bikes away from the main space) and also keep a stock of the larger parts alluded to above.
If you got the 10mx10m, you'd have a great shot at realizing the drawings you have, especially if it carries additional storage. Even without storage, you could get the space as depicted set up.
FYI, I gauged the scale of the space in your drawing and I think it may depict slightly larger than 10mx10m, so double check. You might walk the space with some tape and outline each area on the floor using known objects like bikes and yourselves for scale.
@ 10mx10m with no storage, you could do a hybrid of the 6mx6m functionality and the 10mx10m vision and still have a super functional work area and repair facility, there'd just be limitation to any used bike recycling functions and large parts availability.
Clever storage ideas and inclusion of aesthetic vision can go a long way toward making the most of any space, no matter how small - think along the lines of the Tiny House Movement. The grant of a 6mx6m space, if carefully outfitted, could be plenty to create a lively and effective gathering place.
Exciting! Wishing you and your project continued good luck!
cyclista Nicholas
On 2019-03-26 02:30, Training Wheels wrote:
Thanks all for your input. Apologies- I said I'd get back in touch sooner. An architect friend did this sketch for me after I sent him my rough floor plan (both are attached).
Our proposal is going to the council in the next few weeks. You can read more about the larger project here: https://www.change.org/p/clodagh-henehan-corkcoco-ie-the-old-linen-hall-a-th...
Looking at floor space now. Initially I had asked for 10 metres x 10 metres of workshop space, and an additional 4m2 or storage space. But looks like we might have closer to 6 metres x 6 metres total. Of course I'm delighted with whatever we get.
Any thoughts on space? What size would your ideal workshop be? I visited a friends barn recently that was about 10m x 10m; and I thought, Gawd this could be lovely. Better than all the cramped spaces I'm used to working in. But maybe that's too big. We do have a community led bike rental scheme in the town http://clonbike.com/ and those bikes might eventually come live in the workshop too (60 bikes- though they're mostly out and about at docking stations). Obviously the more space the better, but what could feel just right?
Take care,
Ulick
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 at 02:59, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Ulick,
What you're doing sounds amazing and I hope it works out for you. I wish some of the towns in the US had that vision and appreciation for non-profits. We've been discussing space with our city for going on three years and only now is there a glimmer of hope for indoor workspace. Nevertheless we persist. Good luck. Many of the ideas sound like my vision for our space, but it is rare to be able to design from the ground up.
BTW, my wife and I were in Dublin and Belfast last year. I'd love to go back and spend more time in Ireland - and to all the doubters, the Guinness does taste better over there!
Steve Andruski The Rockville Bike Hub
On Fri, Feb 8, 2019, 8:44 PM Ulick O'Beirne <ulickobeirne@gmail.com wrote:
Wow Nicholas, John, and David; thanks so much. I'll be doing some drawings over the next few days and I'll share them here. We're putting a proposal to the local council to buy the building. so it'll probably be slow to find out if it's going ahead or not. More anon- U
On Fri 8 Feb 2019 at 07:39, Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
Ulick,
Grease and oil stains: If they're on work surfaces, I say leave em'. It's a shop environment, it gets dirty.
Outlets - make sure they are strategically placed and enough of them. You should have a special area set aside for welding (where you install the outlet with the necessary voltage) unless you can ventilate the whole shop properly. I'd mark off the floor with hazard tape unless you have a whole separate room you can set aside, which would be nice since there's not a great need to blind random mechanics with the arc.
I don't know why you'd need a forge, unless you're doing serious professional framebuilding and fabrication.
Presentation apparatus: probably two separate setups, impromptu idea presenter via white or blackboard in the shop area; projector space should be elsewhere (in another room) because the latter could be more for inviting the general public (film festivals and the like) and should therefore be away from a shop environment.
Parts storage depends on the size of your space. If your space is huge, I'd recommend devoting a whole wall or corner to parts, so that they can be immediately available to mechanics. If not especially spacious, a separate room or building might be necessary.
Also regarding parts storage, imagine in advance what you want to have in stock - the quantity and range. If you're going for full spectrum (as we have), realize that your parts storage will be an ongoing curation process for the lifetime of the space. At the beginning, you may want to save everything in order to build up stock, but as you meet your storage limits it will be prudent to go over your caches and prune away the crappier parts. Or, you could be circumspect about part quality from the beginning, but that could be tricky since at a community bike shop part quality is highly relative. Imagining permanently sized and positioned spaces for each component is probably also a mistake, since all stock will swell and ebb over time and it will probably be pragmatic to relocate different component types to different bins or shelves repeatedly.
Regarding bike storage, I've said this before here, but I'll say it again: storing them vertically on walls or fences is very economical and ergonomic. It is, however, more difficult to use the space above them in that case because they sit taller than when both tires are on the ground, so decide what your priorities are.
Regarding tool storage, most of us seem to agree that basic tools should be duplicated at each workbench, while specialized tools should be stored separately. I would add: locked or not depending on your shop's security needs. We used to lock ours years ago, we don't any longer. I'm not sure I would find a separate bench for the specialized tools worth the cost in space (again, your specific square footage factors in).
Access: no stairs if possible. Ground level is best unless you're willing to make ramps.
Plumbing: eyewash stations are nice, and may be necessary for code in your area. A sink in the shop is nice if for no other reason than filling buckets to check tubes or filling water bottles. If you have outdoor space you should make sure you have a tap outside for hoses. We use ours mainly to water plants, but that's enough of a reason.
I'm not big on parts washers, but others disagree. I think you have to be very careful choosing the liquid used. Too weak and the washer is useless, too caustic and disposal is an environmental hazard.
Your lighting scheme sounds great.
Heating: insulate BEFORE you do anything else (well, other than plumbing and electrical). DO NOT fill the space with stuff and then insulate after the fact. It SUCKS. And be sure to insulate well! Heating bills will be drastically easier over time, and in cases where heat may go out having enough insulation means temporary heaters will do a better job.
Ventilation really depends on the size of the space. I find that large spaces need it much less.
Regarding pegboard as Jim mentioned, the melamine/masonite pegboard sucks (it falls apart and is susceptible to humidity), and I've heard metal pegboard gets the holes deformed over time. A friend just installed some heavy duty plastic pegboard though, and it feels and looks like it will last a long time. It was interesting. The benefit of pegboard of course being you can change positioning without having to rebuild the whole tool wall or fill it with more nail holes.
Jim's also on point in mentioning... Have Fun!! Getting these spaces ready for action can be extremely rewarding. If you build it, they will come :)
cyclista Nicholas
On 2019-02-08 04:02, Jim Bledsoe wrote:
hi, how high is the ceiling and what is the shape of your space which way is north and where are the doors and windows make a drawing of your space then cut out squares/shapes that correspond to the program elements listed above. play with it or even make full size cardboard sheet things and play with that avoid peg board solid panels with nails and screws, painted outlines of tools works havefun jim
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 5:53 PM David Oliver nowhere3@gmail.com
wrote:
Think about the floor, standing on concrete isn't very comfortable for long. We've got horse trailer mats at Bikechain and similar rubber mats at Bike Pirates but there are lots of different systems for making
floors
more comfortable.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 8:23 PM Ulick O'Beirne <ulickobeirne@gmail.com
wrote:
> Hey guys, > > Building from the ground up here in Clonakilty. > > As part of a much larger arts centre application I'm writing a part > of > the project to have a very strong repair workshop element, led by the > community bike shop (rarr!). So the bike workshop could be the > beating > heart of a much larger busy space, managing a tool library, welding > space, > paint spraying space. > > The space would need to be really fit for purpose (firstly as a > learning > bike workshop suited for subscribers, volunteers, workshop > participants). > These are the design considerations I've been thinking about, and > also a > rough drawing I did of this kind of set up with ideas I've practised > in my > own limited workshop design and layout experience; stuff I've
learned
> from > reading design books ({Pattern Language- I love you), and loads of > considerate tips I gleaned from reading your wonderful posts. > > With the following considerations in place (below) could you add > anything > or offer advise? Much appreciated. i love to read this thread. Ulick > > PROPOSED MODEL FOR WORKSHOP ON THE SITE > > - Master bench ELEVATED (specialised more expensive tools located and > stored here. Space is also separated by a low partition, but one > using that > station has a clear line of sight right across workshop. > > - space for a blackboard/screen/ projector > > - 6- 8 workstations. more multi-use benches (1. washer station, wood > section) > > -Fold away workshop (PRESSES/ CUPBOARDS/ COASTERS) > > - Lighting and electricity needs > > - Bench needs. i used scaffolding planks covered with 1/4" ply top
on
> my > last bike bench and I'm happy enough. Different benches of different > heights. > > - Power needs: possibly accommodating a medium arc and a tig welding > station (safely separated from bike workshop/ classroom) > > > - Welding and forge (?) station > > - what do i do with grease and oil stains? > > - Storage needs (bikes, tools, parts possible to be all shuttered > away so > that the workshop is multifunctional > > - access needs (wheelchairs, physical disabilities,loading in, shop > access from street) > > - Power input needs (voltage, power outputs/ plugs (where/ how many? > > - Water needs (plumbing, sinks, etc) > > - Risk assessments, safety statement > > - lighting (I was thinking LED Strips over benches, then some more > ambient light, invite in natural light where possible > > - heating and ventilation needs > > > ____________________________________ > > The ThinkTank mailing List > > Unsubscribe from this list here: >
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
> > ____________________________________
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-
Cyclista Nicholas -
David Oliver -
Jim Bledsoe -
Stephen Andruski -
Training Wheels -
Ulick O'Beirne