bike thieves in the shop?
I'd like to throw something out to the group for your opinions.
Do any of you have a specific policy about what to do when a known bike thief comes in the shop? Do you turn him/her away?
Last year, we had an incident with a youth EAB'er, who was caught taking bikes. He's since been implicated but not charged or confirmed as being involved in another bike theft, altho that one is not related to our shop, other than we're friends with the victim, and used some of our resources with a local low-income neighborhood to track down the location of this latest theft, leading to the recovery of said stolen bikes.
Since this last incident, the individual was spotted in our shop by a staff member who was around during last year's debacle. Someone swiftly took him aside, and told him that he needs to leave, that he's not welcome in our shop.
I'm not sure how i personally feel about this. I mean, bike thieves are pretty low, and as such I don't want to encourage them...teaching them wrenching skills that they will potentially use on stolen bikes makes my stomach turn...
Being the community shop that we are, i'm wondering if we can't use our position to turn some of these kids around. By bringing him in and welcoming him, do we not stand a chance of befriending him and breaking down the barrier between us, so that he comes to value our bikes (shop's and staff's, and by extension, the general public) by being exposed to what bikes mean to the people in our shop. in theory, come to see the shop as a resource for knowledge, skills, and cheap parts that takes some investment on his part, instead of just a pool of resources for him to pilfer on a whim.
I'm interested in the groups thoughts, policies, experiences.
I also know that bike theft is something that hits close to home for a lot (or all) of us on this list, and would ask that we keep this discussion on the topic of "to welcome or not in the shop", and not get too distracted with how painfully bike thieves should be tortured.
Thanks.
At the Yellowbike here in Austin we just had two pretty awful incidences with theft, and we've talked a lot about what approach we should take. The first one involved a Katrina evacuee who had gotten a bike from us and then took to volunteering upon occasion. We had been allowing him to work on and take kids' bikes every now and again for family members, but at some point this just turned to him stealing bikes off of our completed rack. We noticed this when he tried to sell a brand new donation bike for 25 dollars to a kid during a shop, and then rode off on a refurbed bike later that night.
With this kind of theft, we tell the thief that they are banned from the shop, but allow them to come before our collective and have a discussion with us. Oftentimes just seeing the fact that we are an all volunteer collective and talking with the group changes the person's attitude about their actions and they can be allowed back in. Generally, however, thieves won't make the effort to come back and talk to us so they stay banned, which is at that point I feel totally justified.
On a sadder note more recently, we had two teenage community service volunteers steal our shop computer during a busy open shop, and in the process of running off they coaxed one of our coordinator's dogs across a busy street where noble Argos was hit and killed by a car. As one might imagine this caused a lot of busy soul searching-- mostly around the question of balancing having a secure and safe shop environment while maintaining a shop that's totally inclusive to the community. We realized that oftentimes the mistake is on partially ours, that even the surliest teenagers who might come into the shop can get involved productively and meaningfully. When we put these kids to work immediately and make sure that they've got tasks and aren't just hanging around wrenching or loitering, they'll often see the fact that we're a real organization and not just some weak charity. If they don't want to get involved at that point then we ask them to leave.
I think the point of this is that opening one's arms to the community is one thing but there's a thin line between real inclusiveness and the kind of guilt-based, "charitable" inclusion that leads to the exploitation of the shop.
-sherief
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:57 PM, veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
I'd like to throw something out to the group for your opinions.
Do any of you have a specific policy about what to do when a known bike thief comes in the shop? Do you turn him/her away?
Last year, we had an incident with a youth EAB'er, who was caught taking bikes. He's since been implicated but not charged or confirmed as being involved in another bike theft, altho that one is not related to our shop, other than we're friends with the victim, and used some of our resources with a local low-income neighborhood to track down the location of this latest theft, leading to the recovery of said stolen bikes.
Since this last incident, the individual was spotted in our shop by a staff member who was around during last year's debacle. Someone swiftly took him aside, and told him that he needs to leave, that he's not welcome in our shop.
I'm not sure how i personally feel about this. I mean, bike thieves are pretty low, and as such I don't want to encourage them...teaching them wrenching skills that they will potentially use on stolen bikes makes my stomach turn...
Being the community shop that we are, i'm wondering if we can't use our position to turn some of these kids around. By bringing him in and welcoming him, do we not stand a chance of befriending him and breaking down the barrier between us, so that he comes to value our bikes (shop's and staff's, and by extension, the general public) by being exposed to what bikes mean to the people in our shop. in theory, come to see the shop as a resource for knowledge, skills, and cheap parts that takes some investment on his part, instead of just a pool of resources for him to pilfer on a whim.
I'm interested in the groups thoughts, policies, experiences.
I also know that bike theft is something that hits close to home for a lot (or all) of us on this list, and would ask that we keep this discussion on the topic of "to welcome or not in the shop", and not get too distracted with how painfully bike thieves should be tortured.
Thanks.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
At this point bike theives are not welcome at UBP. We were broken into on multiple occasions a couple weeks ago. At least a few kids we know and thought were really good kids were complicit. I believe that if any of them came to us and admitted the wrong doing we would ask that they stay away from the shop for a period of time. Like Sherief said, if they don't come talk to us, we don't feel bad and they are essentially banned from the shop.
At this point no kids are allowed in the shop during open hours because of the break-ins, but we are having a meeting on 'Wednesday to figure out how we can get them back with a more structured learning environment and EAB program.
Brian
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
At the Yellowbike here in Austin we just had two pretty awful incidences with theft, and we've talked a lot about what approach we should take. The first one involved a Katrina evacuee who had gotten a bike from us and then took to volunteering upon occasion. We had been allowing him to work on and take kids' bikes every now and again for family members, but at some point this just turned to him stealing bikes off of our completed rack. We noticed this when he tried to sell a brand new donation bike for 25 dollars to a kid during a shop, and then rode off on a refurbed bike later that night.
With this kind of theft, we tell the thief that they are banned from the shop, but allow them to come before our collective and have a discussion with us. Oftentimes just seeing the fact that we are an all volunteer collective and talking with the group changes the person's attitude about their actions and they can be allowed back in. Generally, however, thieves won't make the effort to come back and talk to us so they stay banned, which is at that point I feel totally justified.
On a sadder note more recently, we had two teenage community service volunteers steal our shop computer during a busy open shop, and in the process of running off they coaxed one of our coordinator's dogs across a busy street where noble Argos was hit and killed by a car. As one might imagine this caused a lot of busy soul searching-- mostly around the question of balancing having a secure and safe shop environment while maintaining a shop that's totally inclusive to the community. We realized that oftentimes the mistake is on partially ours, that even the surliest teenagers who might come into the shop can get involved productively and meaningfully. When we put these kids to work immediately and make sure that they've got tasks and aren't just hanging around wrenching or loitering, they'll often see the fact that we're a real organization and not just some weak charity. If they don't want to get involved at that point then we ask them to leave.
I think the point of this is that opening one's arms to the community is one thing but there's a thin line between real inclusiveness and the kind of guilt-based, "charitable" inclusion that leads to the exploitation of the shop.
-sherief
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:57 PM, veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
I'd like to throw something out to the group for your opinions.
Do any of you have a specific policy about what to do when a known bike thief comes in the shop? Do you turn him/her away?
Last year, we had an incident with a youth EAB'er, who was caught taking bikes. He's since been implicated but not charged or confirmed as being involved in another bike theft, altho that one is not related to our shop, other than we're friends with the victim, and used some of our resources with a local low-income neighborhood to track down the location of this latest theft, leading to the recovery of said stolen bikes.
Since this last incident, the individual was spotted in our shop by a staff member who was around during last year's debacle. Someone swiftly took him aside, and told him that he needs to leave, that he's not welcome in our shop.
I'm not sure how i personally feel about this. I mean, bike thieves are pretty low, and as such I don't want to encourage them...teaching them wrenching skills that they will potentially use on stolen bikes makes my stomach turn...
Being the community shop that we are, i'm wondering if we can't use our position to turn some of these kids around. By bringing him in and welcoming him, do we not stand a chance of befriending him and breaking down the barrier between us, so that he comes to value our bikes (shop's and staff's, and by extension, the general public) by being exposed to what bikes mean to the people in our shop. in theory, come to see the shop as a resource for knowledge, skills, and cheap parts that takes some investment on his part, instead of just a pool of resources for him to pilfer on a whim.
I'm interested in the groups thoughts, policies, experiences.
I also know that bike theft is something that hits close to home for a lot (or all) of us on this list, and would ask that we keep this discussion on the topic of "to welcome or not in the shop", and not get too distracted with how painfully bike thieves should be tortured.
Thanks.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Death to bike thieves! Ok, maybe that is extreme....
With the economy going down, petty theft is going up, sadly friendly places like community bike shops are the first to get hit. When dealing with thieves you also have to think about your core volunteers -- they come for the warm and fuzzy feeling -- when that goes away, so do they. So if your volunteers have to do more policing and enforcing than they do just pure helping...
We are starting to have some issues in Salt Lake City with this. Kids are a big problem, we have a lot of refugees in Salt Lake, so dealing with kids whose earliest memories are how to cheat, lie and steal to survive in a life or death situation is tough. On top of that there are language barriers. On one hand I don't blame them for what they had to become to survive, but I have told several groups never to come back again. It really sucks, creates an emotional and resource drain, and makes you question if the whole thing is worth it.
The only thing we can do is lock/bolt down anything we value in the shop, create theft deterants, make sure the volunteers constantly are talking to people (the more you talk to them the less likely they are to rip you off), and instruct not only the volunteers but everyone in the shop that they are part of the community bike shop and if they see anyone hurting the community -- they need to let a volunteer know.
If they still steal they are choosing not to be part of the community.
We were even thinking of hiring a "bouncer" type to keep track of who and what goes in and out the door, that way the volunteers can still concentrate on helping. They don't have to be an unfriendly steroid user -- in fact they could be as harmless as a walmart greeter.
To create accountability to the shop and the shop community on the part of our youngest members: We have a youth mentor on staff who is paid to be there for the kids on Saturdays, Sundays, and Tuesdays for the summer. The kids have their own workbench and their own tool box. The biggest problem with their toolbox is keeping adults from using it. The kids may collectively work on one project at a time, supervised by the youth mentor. If they want a new bike, they must trade in a completely working bike. If they want to come to the shop during other sessions, they must bring their own supervision. We also do races around the parking lot and award them prizes. It's really cute. We've also recently sent the kids home with permission slips and a youth agreement form that they must sign (Thanks Phoenix Bikes!!). And we're about to start making them name tags.
We also supervise two teens who are refugees per summer. They come to us through the International Rescue Committee, which seems to have a highly structured intern program. These kids are always amazing. Part of the lesson here is, if you're going to get interns, partner with an agency that has a really thorough program so someone outside of your shop is holding them accountable and giving them the necessary tools (for example, they do job readiness workshops with the kids where they teach them how to make professional phone calls and how to choose clothing that is appropriate for the kind of job they have).
Meanwhile, back at the shop...Kids and adults who have difficulty abiding by basic ground rules are all given fair warning before they're asked to leave (unless one does something WAY out of line, but we've been working hard to stop things before that happens). We've asked more adults than children to leave.
As for the kids who are looking for a place to hang around and test boundaries, rather than repair bikes, they have come and gone. Their needs are too great for us. The best we can do is offer support for bike repair and a compassionate community for willing participants on a few days out of the week.
As for thieving adults, what bothers me the most are the folks who take things and then flip them on Craig's List. Not cool.
Finally, greeting people as they arrive, asking them to sign in, and providing a monthly volunteer orientation helps us keep things positive in the shop.
-rachael
We just had a couple bike stolen from velocipede in baltimore as well. They came in and took two bikes, one which an EABer had been working on for a very long time. It really sucked. In response we've started to get more serious about our greeter position. Basically we want to have some one at the front desk at all times who signs in volunteers and keeps tabs on who's coming in and out of the shop cause it can get pretty crazy in there.
However I still have a nagging feeling that in some way this thievery is our own fault. We have struggled with having kids come in to the open shop, but in the end we found that it got too crazy. Kids under 16 now are only allowed in the shop with a responsible adult. In baltimore that really limits who can come in the shop. Kid's who can't find someone to come in with them can also join our mentor program, where we find someone over 18 that will agree to supervise them at shop. However in order to join we must first contact their parent/guardian. With the population who has been coming into the shop randomly we haven't had any luck with calling parents--not one has ever called us back. So that puts a serious barrier up for kids under 16 who want to use the shop. We know we need a kid's program, but haven't been able to make that happen yet except with established groups that already have kids they are working with. So if a young person whose already been denied most privledges such as decent schooling and housing comes in to the shop and sees all the bikes that they can't have because they don't have a parent/guardian who is willing or able to come in with them or even call us back then i understand the desire to take things...
This does not make stealing bikes ok...However the whole things just leaves a bad taste in my mouth...I feel a little like we are failing.... -beth
To create accountability to the shop and the shop community on the part of our youngest members: We have a youth mentor on staff who is paid to be there for the kids on Saturdays, Sundays, and Tuesdays for the summer. The kids have their own workbench and their own tool box. The biggest problem with their toolbox is keeping adults from using it. The kids may collectively work on one project at a time, supervised by the youth mentor. If they want a new bike, they must trade in a completely working bike. If they want to come to the shop during other sessions, they must bring their own supervision. We also do races around the parking lot and award them prizes. It's really cute. We've also recently sent the kids home with permission slips and a youth agreement form that they must sign (Thanks Phoenix Bikes!!). And we're about to start making them name tags.
We also supervise two teens who are refugees per summer. They come to us through the International Rescue Committee, which seems to have a highly structured intern program. These kids are always amazing. Part of the lesson here is, if you're going to get interns, partner with an agency that has a really thorough program so someone outside of your shop is holding them accountable and giving them the necessary tools (for example, they do job readiness workshops with the kids where they teach them how to make professional phone calls and how to choose clothing that is appropriate for the kind of job they have).
Meanwhile, back at the shop...Kids and adults who have difficulty abiding by basic ground rules are all given fair warning before they're asked to leave (unless one does something WAY out of line, but we've been working hard to stop things before that happens). We've asked more adults than children to leave.
As for the kids who are looking for a place to hang around and test boundaries, rather than repair bikes, they have come and gone. Their needs are too great for us. The best we can do is offer support for bike repair and a compassionate community for willing participants on a few days out of the week.
As for thieving adults, what bothers me the most are the folks who take things and then flip them on Craig's List. Not cool.
Finally, greeting people as they arrive, asking them to sign in, and providing a monthly volunteer orientation helps us keep things positive in the shop.
-rachael _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
can Phoenix Bikes resend the mentioned permission slip? if not to the list then to me personally? thanks!
andrew lynn troy bike rescue troy, ny
rachael spiewak wrote:
To create accountability to the shop and the shop community on the part of our youngest members: We have a youth mentor on staff who is paid to be there for the kids on Saturdays, Sundays, and Tuesdays for the summer. The kids have their own workbench and their own tool box. The biggest problem with their toolbox is keeping adults from using it. The kids may collectively work on one project at a time, supervised by the youth mentor. If they want a new bike, they must trade in a completely working bike. If they want to come to the shop during other sessions, they must bring their own supervision. We also do races around the parking lot and award them prizes. It's really cute. We've also recently sent the kids home with permission slips and a youth agreement form that they must sign (Thanks Phoenix Bikes!!). And we're about to start making them name tags.
We also supervise two teens who are refugees per summer. They come to us through the International Rescue Committee, which seems to have a highly structured intern program. These kids are always amazing. Part of the lesson here is, if you're going to get interns, partner with an agency that has a really thorough program so someone outside of your shop is holding them accountable and giving them the necessary tools (for example, they do job readiness workshops with the kids where they teach them how to make professional phone calls and how to choose clothing that is appropriate for the kind of job they have).
Meanwhile, back at the shop...Kids and adults who have difficulty abiding by basic ground rules are all given fair warning before they're asked to leave (unless one does something WAY out of line, but we've been working hard to stop things before that happens). We've asked more adults than children to leave.
As for the kids who are looking for a place to hang around and test boundaries, rather than repair bikes, they have come and gone. Their needs are too great for us. The best we can do is offer support for bike repair and a compassionate community for willing participants on a few days out of the week.
As for thieving adults, what bothers me the most are the folks who take things and then flip them on Craig's List. Not cool.
Finally, greeting people as they arrive, asking them to sign in, and providing a monthly volunteer orientation helps us keep things positive in the shop.
-rachael
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
--
Bike theft lead the Grease Pit to close the shop to kids for two weeks the end of last summer. When 15 bikes were stolen by kids who we were helping, but could not identify by name or face later we knew that something needed to change. The week long session of meetings lead to a shop manual to help us understand how to focus and think of ways to earn the respect of these kids.
Despite all of our best efforts to learn names, focus our attention for Earn a bike kids onto a special day, and to keep shop security tight, we have had little success. Kids are stealing out of our donations jar and taking bikes from under our noses.
Because our space is shared with a theatre, security needs to be tight, but this would leave us with too few collective members in a space that is already over-run with people needing help.
While all of this is going on we are also experiencing a mass of volunteers who are bike jock-ish and act as if the shop is theirs. In order to help maximize the shop accessibility and friendliness, we need to figure out a solution and proto.
Question 1: How can we give kids the attention they need while not limiting the number of commuters that we are helping? (as they are already discouraged by the lack of assistance and excessive quantity of kids in the shop)
Question 2: How can we effectively utilize our volunteers without constantly monitoring them and having to call them out or hear about them later?
I would also like to know what success orgs have had with limiting the number of kids in the shop.
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Outline:
- No EAB's during regular shop hours
- One or two people assigned to work with kids, in a specific area if
possible. 3. Kids with minor repairs get help first, then the bigger projects. 4. Volunteers get assigned specific tasks/roles (read: idiot proof) with specific guidelines 5. Too many cooks in the kitchen? Have excess volunteers sign up for another day.
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Ramble:
UBP is just coming off of our youth ban tonight after some thefts. Before the ban we were, like you, struggling to help kids with EAB as well as helping adults that come into the shop. It didn't work. At all. Adults would leave because there were so many rowdy kids and kids would just, well, be kids. Putting a number cap on kids didn't work because they wheedled their way in anyway (wouldn't you?) and by the end of the night the shop was overrun.
We like Sopo's idea of having one designated person to work with kids and them having their own tool kit and work space. We also recognize that doing EAB and open shop at the same time is impossible as each child needs constant supervision/guidance and a structured environment to learn effectively. EAB is on hold/stopped until we come up with something more meaningful and concrete.
There will be a triage of sorts when youth come to the shop. The first bikes fixed are the ones that have the best chance of being completed (flats, popped chains, bar/brake adjusts) and then with whatever time is left we can work on the baskets. No matter how badly the kids NEED to ride their bike home that night (which they all do...) we help with the basic repairs first. Kids that aren't working on their bike must wait outside, which creates another issue, but at least they're not wandering around the shop/building.
As far as "jockish volunteers" we have a hard time with some volunteers doing all the work on peoples bikes. There's nothing you can do other than constantly stressing that your goal is to teach and their hand shouldn't be holding the wrench. Call them out if you must, usually it still goes over their heads, try assigning them to other tasks. We also have experienced a surge of "volunteers" lately. The reason that's in quotes is because these people show up to hang out, work on their own bikes and bring more "volunteers" with them. I've found that these people are
To deal with this we've gotten specific about our volunteer roles. There is a Greeter, One Mechanic per workstand, Head Mechanic, Youth Mentor/Helper, Back Room Help and Back Room Supervisor. Each of these positions is spelled out in great detail. When people show up to help on open shop days they get assigned a position that is appropriate. If they're not needed and the shop is busy, they're asked to wait outside or to sign up for another day ahead of time. That's the theory anyway....we're working on it.
Good luck, this past couple months have been a wealth of relavent information on the Think Tank and I/UBP really appreciate the ability to learn and share ideas with other organizations, big and small.
Brian Windle
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:24 AM, jirs0004@umn.edu wrote:
Bike theft lead the Grease Pit to close the shop to kids for two weeks the end of last summer. When 15 bikes were stolen by kids who we were helping, but could not identify by name or face later we knew that something needed to change. The week long session of meetings lead to a shop manual to help us understand how to focus and think of ways to earn the respect of these kids.
Despite all of our best efforts to learn names, focus our attention for Earn a bike kids onto a special day, and to keep shop security tight, we have had little success. Kids are stealing out of our donations jar and taking bikes from under our noses.
Because our space is shared with a theatre, security needs to be tight, but this would leave us with too few collective members in a space that is already over-run with people needing help.
While all of this is going on we are also experiencing a mass of volunteers who are bike jock-ish and act as if the shop is theirs. In order to help maximize the shop accessibility and friendliness, we need to figure out a solution and proto.
Question 1: How can we give kids the attention they need while not limiting the number of commuters that we are helping? (as they are already discouraged by the lack of assistance and excessive quantity of kids in the shop)
Question 2: How can we effectively utilize our volunteers without constantly monitoring them and having to call them out or hear about them later?
I would also like to know what success orgs have had with limiting the number of kids in the shop.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
At velocipede we are still struggling with the kid issue. We basically have banned kid's from the shop unless they have someone with them to supervise them. We help kid's sometimes when we can and if they are respectful....this is not our ideal situation, but it doesn't seem to be another way with out making ourselves crazy. We tried having a kid's day a long time ago but it didn't work out too well. Hopefully in the future we can get funding to have a kid's specific day....
However we have gotten good at dealing with "Jockish" volunteers. What has really helped with that is...
- having a greeter and volunteer coordinator so people are met at the
door, given the speil and then sent to someone to get a task or assigned a stand....I can't stress how helpful this is!! 2. Making sure that people do volunteer hours before they work on their own bike 3. having a women/trans mechanic night.
We do have to occasionally pull people aside and talk to them about when was the last time they put in some volunteer hours...but if people are met at the door and start off on the right foot, then there usually isn't problems....
-beth velocipede bike project baltimore, md
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Outline:
- No EAB's during regular shop hours
- One or two people assigned to work with kids, in a specific area if
possible. 3. Kids with minor repairs get help first, then the bigger projects. 4. Volunteers get assigned specific tasks/roles (read: idiot proof) with specific guidelines 5. Too many cooks in the kitchen? Have excess volunteers sign up for another day.
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Ramble:
UBP is just coming off of our youth ban tonight after some thefts. Before the ban we were, like you, struggling to help kids with EAB as well as helping adults that come into the shop. It didn't work. At all. Adults would leave because there were so many rowdy kids and kids would just, well, be kids. Putting a number cap on kids didn't work because they wheedled their way in anyway (wouldn't you?) and by the end of the night the shop was overrun.
We like Sopo's idea of having one designated person to work with kids and them having their own tool kit and work space. We also recognize that doing EAB and open shop at the same time is impossible as each child needs constant supervision/guidance and a structured environment to learn effectively. EAB is on hold/stopped until we come up with something more meaningful and concrete.
There will be a triage of sorts when youth come to the shop. The first bikes fixed are the ones that have the best chance of being completed (flats, popped chains, bar/brake adjusts) and then with whatever time is left we can work on the baskets. No matter how badly the kids NEED to ride their bike home that night (which they all do...) we help with the basic repairs first. Kids that aren't working on their bike must wait outside, which creates another issue, but at least they're not wandering around the shop/building.
As far as "jockish volunteers" we have a hard time with some volunteers doing all the work on peoples bikes. There's nothing you can do other than constantly stressing that your goal is to teach and their hand shouldn't be holding the wrench. Call them out if you must, usually it still goes over their heads, try assigning them to other tasks. We also have experienced a surge of "volunteers" lately. The reason that's in quotes is because these people show up to hang out, work on their own bikes and bring more "volunteers" with them. I've found that these people are
To deal with this we've gotten specific about our volunteer roles. There is a Greeter, One Mechanic per workstand, Head Mechanic, Youth Mentor/Helper, Back Room Help and Back Room Supervisor. Each of these positions is spelled out in great detail. When people show up to help on open shop days they get assigned a position that is appropriate. If they're not needed and the shop is busy, they're asked to wait outside or to sign up for another day ahead of time. That's the theory anyway....we're working on it.
Good luck, this past couple months have been a wealth of relavent information on the Think Tank and I/UBP really appreciate the ability to learn and share ideas with other organizations, big and small.
Brian Windle
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:24 AM, jirs0004@umn.edu wrote:
Bike theft lead the Grease Pit to close the shop to kids for two weeks the end of last summer. When 15 bikes were stolen by kids who we were helping, but could not identify by name or face later we knew that something needed to change. The week long session of meetings lead to a shop manual to help us understand how to focus and think of ways to earn the respect of these kids.
Despite all of our best efforts to learn names, focus our attention for Earn a bike kids onto a special day, and to keep shop security tight, we have had little success. Kids are stealing out of our donations jar and taking bikes from under our noses.
Because our space is shared with a theatre, security needs to be tight, but this would leave us with too few collective members in a space that is already over-run with people needing help.
While all of this is going on we are also experiencing a mass of volunteers who are bike jock-ish and act as if the shop is theirs. In order to help maximize the shop accessibility and friendliness, we need to figure out a solution and proto.
Question 1: How can we give kids the attention they need while not limiting the number of commuters that we are helping? (as they are already discouraged by the lack of assistance and excessive quantity of kids in the shop)
Question 2: How can we effectively utilize our volunteers without constantly monitoring them and having to call them out or hear about them later?
I would also like to know what success orgs have had with limiting the number of kids in the shop.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Urban Bike Project of Wilmington --a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop-- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19801
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Will some one PLEASE take me richardrivas@comcast.net )off your e-mail list. Thank you Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Velocipede Bike Project" info@velocipedebikeproject.org To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] ***DHSPAM*** Re: bike thieves in the shop?
At velocipede we are still struggling with the kid issue. We basically have banned kid's from the shop unless they have someone with them to supervise them. We help kid's sometimes when we can and if they are respectful....this is not our ideal situation, but it doesn't seem to be another way with out making ourselves crazy. We tried having a kid's day a long time ago but it didn't work out too well. Hopefully in the future we can get funding to have a kid's specific day....
However we have gotten good at dealing with "Jockish" volunteers. What has really helped with that is...
- having a greeter and volunteer coordinator so people are met at the
door, given the speil and then sent to someone to get a task or assigned a stand....I can't stress how helpful this is!! 2. Making sure that people do volunteer hours before they work on their own bike 3. having a women/trans mechanic night.
We do have to occasionally pull people aside and talk to them about when was the last time they put in some volunteer hours...but if people are met at the door and start off on the right foot, then there usually isn't problems....
-beth velocipede bike project baltimore, md
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Outline:
- No EAB's during regular shop hours
- One or two people assigned to work with kids, in a specific area if
possible. 3. Kids with minor repairs get help first, then the bigger projects. 4. Volunteers get assigned specific tasks/roles (read: idiot proof) with specific guidelines 5. Too many cooks in the kitchen? Have excess volunteers sign up for another day.
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Ramble:
UBP is just coming off of our youth ban tonight after some thefts. Before the ban we were, like you, struggling to help kids with EAB as well as helping adults that come into the shop. It didn't work. At all. Adults would leave because there were so many rowdy kids and kids would just, well, be kids. Putting a number cap on kids didn't work because they wheedled their way in anyway (wouldn't you?) and by the end of the night the shop was overrun.
We like Sopo's idea of having one designated person to work with kids and them having their own tool kit and work space. We also recognize that doing EAB and open shop at the same time is impossible as each child needs constant supervision/guidance and a structured environment to learn effectively. EAB is on hold/stopped until we come up with something more meaningful and concrete.
There will be a triage of sorts when youth come to the shop. The first bikes fixed are the ones that have the best chance of being completed (flats, popped chains, bar/brake adjusts) and then with whatever time is left we can work on the baskets. No matter how badly the kids NEED to ride their bike home that night (which they all do...) we help with the basic repairs first. Kids that aren't working on their bike must wait outside, which creates another issue, but at least they're not wandering around the shop/building.
As far as "jockish volunteers" we have a hard time with some volunteers doing all the work on peoples bikes. There's nothing you can do other than constantly stressing that your goal is to teach and their hand shouldn't be holding the wrench. Call them out if you must, usually it still goes over their heads, try assigning them to other tasks. We also have experienced a surge of "volunteers" lately. The reason that's in quotes is because these people show up to hang out, work on their own bikes and bring more "volunteers" with them. I've found that these people are
To deal with this we've gotten specific about our volunteer roles. There is a Greeter, One Mechanic per workstand, Head Mechanic, Youth Mentor/Helper, Back Room Help and Back Room Supervisor. Each of these positions is spelled out in great detail. When people show up to help on open shop days they get assigned a position that is appropriate. If they're not needed and the shop is busy, they're asked to wait outside or to sign up for another day ahead of time. That's the theory anyway....we're working on it.
Good luck, this past couple months have been a wealth of relavent information on the Think Tank and I/UBP really appreciate the ability to learn and share ideas with other organizations, big and small.
Brian Windle
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:24 AM, jirs0004@umn.edu wrote:
Bike theft lead the Grease Pit to close the shop to kids for two weeks the end of last summer. When 15 bikes were stolen by kids who we were helping, but could not identify by name or face later we knew that something needed to change. The week long session of meetings lead to a shop manual to help us understand how to focus and think of ways to earn the respect of these kids.
Despite all of our best efforts to learn names, focus our attention for Earn a bike kids onto a special day, and to keep shop security tight, we have had little success. Kids are stealing out of our donations jar and taking bikes from under our noses.
Because our space is shared with a theatre, security needs to be tight, but this would leave us with too few collective members in a space that is already over-run with people needing help.
While all of this is going on we are also experiencing a mass of volunteers who are bike jock-ish and act as if the shop is theirs. In order to help maximize the shop accessibility and friendliness, we need to figure out a solution and proto.
Question 1: How can we give kids the attention they need while not limiting the number of commuters that we are helping? (as they are already discouraged by the lack of assistance and excessive quantity of kids in the shop)
Question 2: How can we effectively utilize our volunteers without constantly monitoring them and having to call them out or hear about them later?
I would also like to know what success orgs have had with limiting the number of kids in the shop.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Urban Bike Project of Wilmington --a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop-- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19801
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
__________ NOD32 2486 (20070827) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
richard - you're emailing an entire list of subscribers to this group with your request, not an administrator.
click on this link (at the bottom of all ThinkTank emails), and scroll to bottom of page to unsubscribe yourself:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Richard Rivas richardrivas@comcast.net wrote:
Will some one PLEASE take me richardrivas@comcast.net )off your e-mail list. Thank you Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Velocipede Bike Project" < info@velocipedebikeproject.org> To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] ***DHSPAM*** Re: bike thieves in the shop?
At velocipede we are still struggling with the kid issue. We basically
have banned kid's from the shop unless they have someone with them to supervise them. We help kid's sometimes when we can and if they are respectful....this is not our ideal situation, but it doesn't seem to be another way with out making ourselves crazy. We tried having a kid's day a long time ago but it didn't work out too well. Hopefully in the future we can get funding to have a kid's specific day....
However we have gotten good at dealing with "Jockish" volunteers. What has really helped with that is...
- having a greeter and volunteer coordinator so people are met at the
door, given the speil and then sent to someone to get a task or assigned a stand....I can't stress how helpful this is!! 2. Making sure that people do volunteer hours before they work on their own bike 3. having a women/trans mechanic night.
We do have to occasionally pull people aside and talk to them about when was the last time they put in some volunteer hours...but if people are met at the door and start off on the right foot, then there usually isn't problems....
-beth velocipede bike project baltimore, md
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Outline:
- No EAB's during regular shop hours
- One or two people assigned to work with kids, in a specific area if
possible. 3. Kids with minor repairs get help first, then the bigger projects. 4. Volunteers get assigned specific tasks/roles (read: idiot proof) with specific guidelines 5. Too many cooks in the kitchen? Have excess volunteers sign up for another day.
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Ramble:
UBP is just coming off of our youth ban tonight after some thefts. Before the ban we were, like you, struggling to help kids with EAB as well as helping adults that come into the shop. It didn't work. At all. Adults would leave because there were so many rowdy kids and kids would just, well, be kids. Putting a number cap on kids didn't work because they wheedled their way in anyway (wouldn't you?) and by the end of the night the shop was overrun.
We like Sopo's idea of having one designated person to work with kids and them having their own tool kit and work space. We also recognize that doing EAB and open shop at the same time is impossible as each child needs constant supervision/guidance and a structured environment to learn effectively. EAB is on hold/stopped until we come up with something more meaningful and concrete.
There will be a triage of sorts when youth come to the shop. The first bikes fixed are the ones that have the best chance of being completed (flats, popped chains, bar/brake adjusts) and then with whatever time is left we can work on the baskets. No matter how badly the kids NEED to ride their bike home that night (which they all do...) we help with the basic repairs first. Kids that aren't working on their bike must wait outside, which creates another issue, but at least they're not wandering around the shop/building.
As far as "jockish volunteers" we have a hard time with some volunteers doing all the work on peoples bikes. There's nothing you can do other than constantly stressing that your goal is to teach and their hand shouldn't be holding the wrench. Call them out if you must, usually it still goes over their heads, try assigning them to other tasks. We also have experienced a surge of "volunteers" lately. The reason that's in quotes is because these people show up to hang out, work on their own bikes and bring more "volunteers" with them. I've found that these people are
To deal with this we've gotten specific about our volunteer roles. There is a Greeter, One Mechanic per workstand, Head Mechanic, Youth Mentor/Helper, Back Room Help and Back Room Supervisor. Each of these positions is spelled out in great detail. When people show up to help on open shop days they get assigned a position that is appropriate. If they're not needed and the shop is busy, they're asked to wait outside or to sign up for another day ahead of time. That's the theory anyway....we're working on it.
Good luck, this past couple months have been a wealth of relavent information on the Think Tank and I/UBP really appreciate the ability to learn and share ideas with other organizations, big and small.
Brian Windle
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:24 AM, jirs0004@umn.edu wrote:
Bike theft lead the Grease Pit to close the shop to kids for two weeks
the end of last summer. When 15 bikes were stolen by kids who we were helping, but could not identify by name or face later we knew that something needed to change. The week long session of meetings lead to a shop manual to help us understand how to focus and think of ways to earn the respect of these kids.
Despite all of our best efforts to learn names, focus our attention for Earn a bike kids onto a special day, and to keep shop security tight, we have had little success. Kids are stealing out of our donations jar and taking bikes from under our noses.
Because our space is shared with a theatre, security needs to be tight, but this would leave us with too few collective members in a space that is already over-run with people needing help.
While all of this is going on we are also experiencing a mass of volunteers who are bike jock-ish and act as if the shop is theirs. In order to help maximize the shop accessibility and friendliness, we need to figure out a solution and proto.
Question 1: How can we give kids the attention they need while not limiting the number of commuters that we are helping? (as they are already discouraged by the lack of assistance and excessive quantity of kids in the shop)
Question 2: How can we effectively utilize our volunteers without constantly monitoring them and having to call them out or hear about them later?
I would also like to know what success orgs have had with limiting the number of kids in the shop.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Urban Bike Project of Wilmington --a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop-- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19801
Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
__________ NOD32 2486 (20070827) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
We seem to have the opposite problem: we do not have enough
volunteers to be as open as often as we'd like, but on the other hand
we don't tend to have kids in the shop and almost no theft issues.
Re: theft - we caught one guy leaving with parts he did not pay for.
When confronted with this he claimed he should not have to pay
because he had donated bikes to us (yeah, six bikes, all of which
were bad enough that he did not want to work on them, and five had to
be scrapped). After arguing and swearing at us he was banned on the
spot, and he finally left after we said would call the Police if he
didn't leave.
We had to ban another fellow who was a continuing challenge to us.
He is ADHD with some other stuff going on, and we could just not
handle him. He was caught leaving with something he had not paid
for, he said "oops" and we forgave him, but later, upon him not
meeting some restrictions we had to put on him, we had to ban him for
a year (recently extended).
We had one very keen fellow come in saying he wanted to become a Head
Mechanic. He was knowledgeable enough, but very impatient with our
request that we need to spend some time getting to know him first
before letting him into the core group and granting key access. We
grew increasingly wary of him, and one night he said "so, do I get to
be HM or not?" and I said "soon" and he grumbled and headed off. The
next day our shop was broken into for the first time, and only our
cash box removed (containing about $100). We never saw the guy
again, and most of us presume he was the culprit.
Since then we are even more cautious when someone wants to become HM
right away...
We've been very lucky with the bikes. We don't ask for ID for test
rides unless the on-duty HM gets a vibe, and none have disappeared.
Re: kids - we did pass a policy last month saying that children under
the age of 12 had to be accompanied by an adult. We've only had one
vaguely unpleasant experience: at our previous location a trio would
come in, and only one of them was working on his bike while the other
two started playing around. I came back into the shop from our
storage room to see one of them waving a rubber mallet at the other,
and so in a very loud voice I said "you two, out of the shop now.
This is not a playground!" They left under mild protest and never
returned, but for another week or so we heard about them getting back
into the building and playing with the freight elevator.
Considering that our previous shop was located in an area dominated
by assisted housing we rarely had kids come in. Then again, we did
not court them either, as we do not offer an EAB program. We simply
do not have the volunteer staff to run such a thing. Which leads to...
Volunteers: we seem to be treading water attracting core vols. We
have low staff turnover, but when someone does leave we are basically
able t replace them, but not add more. After ten years we are still
only open three nights per week, and have only added a Sunday
afternoon shift for volunteers because I will go and staff it.
We do have volunteers coming in and working on bikes, but not every
shift, and most are beginners to intermediate. We seem to have little
luck in attracting more experienced mechs. that could help expand our
hours. Perhaps some come in on a busy Spring evening and think the
shop is too hectic and don't want the responsibility, or the simply
don't come in because they have all their tools at home and have no
need for our shop.
We ARE working our way to more core staff, as our new shop needs two
(one of reach room) so we now have Shop Assistants for the front
room, working as Greeters and selling bikes and parts, and cashing
out those leaving the work room. Some of the folks will become HMs
in the future.
Mark Rehder - Director re-Cycles Bicycle Co-op http://re-cycles.ca
On 26-Jun-08, at 11:19 AM, Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE wrote:
What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Outline:
- No EAB's during regular shop hours
- One or two people assigned to work with kids, in a specific area
if possible. 3. Kids with minor repairs get help first, then the bigger projects. 4. Volunteers get assigned specific tasks/roles (read: idiot proof)
with specific guidelines 5. Too many cooks in the kitchen? Have excess volunteers sign up
for another day.What UBP is doing about similar issues, The Ramble:
UBP is just coming off of our youth ban tonight after some thefts.
Before the ban we were, like you, struggling to help kids with EAB
as well as helping adults that come into the shop. It didn't work.
At all. Adults would leave because there were so many rowdy kids
and kids would just, well, be kids. Putting a number cap on kids
didn't work because they wheedled their way in anyway (wouldn't
you?) and by the end of the night the shop was overrun.We like Sopo's idea of having one designated person to work with
kids and them having their own tool kit and work space. We also
recognize that doing EAB and open shop at the same time is
impossible as each child needs constant supervision/guidance and a
structured environment to learn effectively. EAB is on hold/ stopped until we come up with something more meaningful and concrete.There will be a triage of sorts when youth come to the shop. The
first bikes fixed are the ones that have the best chance of being
completed (flats, popped chains, bar/brake adjusts) and then with
whatever time is left we can work on the baskets. No matter how
badly the kids NEED to ride their bike home that night (which they
all do...) we help with the basic repairs first. Kids that aren't
working on their bike must wait outside, which creates another
issue, but at least they're not wandering around the shop/building.As far as "jockish volunteers" we have a hard time with some
volunteers doing all the work on peoples bikes. There's nothing you
can do other than constantly stressing that your goal is to teach
and their hand shouldn't be holding the wrench. Call them out if
you must, usually it still goes over their heads, try assigning
them to other tasks. We also have experienced a surge of
"volunteers" lately. The reason that's in quotes is because these
people show up to hang out, work on their own bikes and bring more
"volunteers" with them. I've found that these people areTo deal with this we've gotten specific about our volunteer roles.
There is a Greeter, One Mechanic per workstand, Head Mechanic,
Youth Mentor/Helper, Back Room Help and Back Room Supervisor. Each
of these positions is spelled out in great detail. When people
show up to help on open shop days they get assigned a position that
is appropriate. If they're not needed and the shop is busy,
they're asked to wait outside or to sign up for another day ahead
of time. That's the theory anyway....we're working on it.Good luck, this past couple months have been a wealth of relavent
information on the Think Tank and I/UBP really appreciate the
ability to learn and share ideas with other organizations, big and
small.Brian Windle
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:24 AM, jirs0004@umn.edu wrote: Bike theft lead the Grease Pit to close the shop to kids for two
weeks the end of last summer. When 15 bikes were stolen by kids who
we were helping, but could not identify by name or face later we
knew that something needed to change. The week long session of
meetings lead to a shop manual to help us understand how to focus
and think of ways to earn the respect of these kids.Despite all of our best efforts to learn names, focus our attention
for Earn a bike kids onto a special day, and to keep shop security
tight, we have had little success. Kids are stealing out of our
donations jar and taking bikes from under our noses.Because our space is shared with a theatre, security needs to be
tight, but this would leave us with too few collective members in a
space that is already over-run with people needing help.While all of this is going on we are also experiencing a mass of
volunteers who are bike jock-ish and act as if the shop is theirs.
In order to help maximize the shop accessibility and friendliness,
we need to figure out a solution and proto.Question 1: How can we give kids the attention they need while not
limiting the number of commuters that we are helping? (as they are
already discouraged by the lack of assistance and excessive
quantity of kids in the shop)Question 2: How can we effectively utilize our volunteers without
constantly monitoring them and having to call them out or hear
about them later?I would also like to know what success orgs have had with limiting
the number of kids in the shop.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- bikecollectives.org
-- Urban Bike Project of Wilmington --a 501(c)3 non-profit bike shop-- 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the
building) Wilmington, DE 19801Hours: Thursday 6:30-9:00 Saturday 1:00-4:00
Visit us online at http://urbanbikeproject.org _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- bikecollectives.org
We are having a problem with people hanging outside of the shop after hours. Some of these people have been drinking, doing drugs, and have assaulted some of the members of the theatre that we are connected to and sublet from. These people are some of the same ones that have been kicked out of every establishment of the west bank area of Minneapolis. We need to find a way to get them to stop without starting a fight.
The theatre wants to put up signs identifying what is not allowed in the space and that indicates that the back patio area is not open after Grease Pit hours.
However the grease pit feels that this will
- not work. If these people won't respect workers enough to leave when
asked, why would a sign change their minds? 2) will alienate the part of the community that might be sign abiders and help with those who aren't. 3) not help us learn who these people are so that we can know what to expect and how to deal with them and the other people back there. 4) cause unneccessary fights when people aren't doing anything. 5) make the space look white dominated (as it would still be ok for the shop members who are primarily white and their friends to hang out in the back space)
There has also, it seems, been some success with befriending these people as some of them have later brought their nieces and nephews into the shop and sometimes helped out.
We don't want to have to be the theatre's security but understand the legality that we can't have people back there drinking and we are not ok with people harassing or assaulting women. The theatre is adamant about a sign and it seems are intent on putting one up whether or not we want it.
If you have suggestions about dealing with security issues please let me know.
Thanks, Cali. GPBS
Motion Sensor light...fake survalince globe.
Change your hours of operation, earlier openings and earlier closures. Phase them out.
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:54 AM, jirs0004@umn.edu wrote:
We are having a problem with people hanging outside of the shop after hours. Some of these people have been drinking, doing drugs, and have assaulted some of the members of the theatre that we are connected to and sublet from. These people are some of the same ones that have been kicked out of every establishment of the west bank area of Minneapolis. We need to find a way to get them to stop without starting a fight.
The theatre wants to put up signs identifying what is not allowed in the space and that indicates that the back patio area is not open after Grease Pit hours.
However the grease pit feels that this will 1) not work. If these people won't respect workers enough to leave when asked, why would a sign change their minds? 2) will alienate the part of the community that might be sign abiders and help with those who aren't. 3) not help us learn who these people are so that we can know what to expect and how to deal with them and the other people back there. 4) cause unneccessary fights when people aren't doing anything. 5) make the space look white dominated (as it would still be ok for the shop members who are primarily white and their friends to hang out in the back space)
There has also, it seems, been some success with befriending these people as some of them have later brought their nieces and nephews into the shop and sometimes helped out.
We don't want to have to be the theatre's security but understand the legality that we can't have people back there drinking and we are not ok with people harassing or assaulting women. The theatre is adamant about a sign and it seems are intent on putting one up whether or not we want it.
If you have suggestions about dealing with security issues please let me know.
Thanks, Cali. GPBS _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
participants (12)
-
andrew L. -
Geoffrey B -
jirs0004＠umn.edu -
Jonathan Morrison -
Mark Rehder -
rachael spiewak -
Richard Rivas -
Sherief -
Urban Bike Project Wilmington, DE -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com -
Velocipede Bike Project -
yellow bike