Hey,
I thought that having piles of old freewheels might be a problem
common to bike collectives and wanted to see what folks did with them,
or any other non-standard uses for bike parts. We have just
"discovered" that you can pull apart a freewheel with two chain whips,
one on the outer cog and the other on the third (the second is
sometimes also threaded like the outermost) and apply opposite force.
This usually involves two people lots of grunting and yelling, then
the outer most ring will thread off (sometimes the second and third
are also threaded) then the rest just slide off. The lowest three cogs
are between 14-20 tooth which is perfect single speed range. So... we
have built up a couple bikes using a single chainring in front and a
14t and a 18 or 20t threaded back onto the freewheel to make what I
believe are called "dinglespeeds" which is basically a singlespeed
setup with the option of loosening the rear axle, moving the chain
over to the other cog and re-tensioning the chain in the dropouts
(have to be horizontal). This allows us to build up really basic, low
maintenance bikes that have both a "winter gear" and a "summer gear"
(since we are in the brutal north) or I suppose if we actually had
hills or trails, "on-road gear" and an "off-road gear". I know the
concept of a dinglespeed has been kicked around a bit in the SS world,
but usually it's done with respacing a cassette w/ two cogs, which are
a rare commodity in our shop. Have other folks experimented with this
setup? Good results? We have only built up a few, and thus far it has
worked out pretty well on the bikes we are testing it on. Also, what
kinds of other projects have folks done with either re purposing bike
parts in a creative way or modifying them to breath new life into shop
excess?
Thanks,
Andrew
FM Community Bicycle Workshop
I'd add that the the dinglespeed methodology has a couple of obvious glitches-
A) nasty, gunked up freewheel lock-rings that've lived their lives being constantly tightened (hence the grunting and cursing associated with their removal). To hurdle this, a good overnight soaking with some penetrating lube greases the skids a bit, reduces grunting.
B) Chainline: one cog of the dingle tends to line up super sweetly; switching to the other cog results in a less than ideal chainline. White Brothers have eliminated this phenom with a double crank/chain + dingle freewheel that has both a perfect chainline and two radically different gear ratios which utilize the same chain length (switch from a Big chainwheel/Small Cog to a Smaller Chainwheel/Larger Cog and Blammo- you've got yer on-road and off-road bases covered).
B2) I think as elegant a solution (well, not as elegant, but sweet none-the-less) would be a tensioner- which brings us to...
...C) Anybody have success in crafting a classy tensioner out of, say, old SIS derailleurs? We've chopped the lower pulley out of some of ours, but they're a bit clunky [though ready made for alignment- use the set screws to line up your chain under the cog; for fine tuning on the fly (or for a dinglespeed) you can "fake the derailleur out a bit" by routing a chunk of shift cable through the barrel adjuster and pinching it into position (fixing your pulley alignment with cable tension alone- don't worry about set screws). Then, when it's time to switch to the other dingle gear, you simply line up the chain under the new cog using the barrel adjuster. No tools from road to trail... but not the prettiest (or lightest, or even the easiest-for-the-average-amateur cyclist to dig into and appreciate)]. I tell you what, though: they're awfully fun. There must be a better way to add a light little tensioner to your single or dingle system (for those of us with vertical drops, or a drawerful of nasty old SIS derailleurs)
Other Burning Q's I have: -cutting new threads into the BB shells of old, cottered-crank Raleighs to make 'em compatible with new seale BBs. -Effective (i.e., non-destructive) Cottered Crank removal (and re-usage) -ways to prevent cold weather pawl freeze up in cassette hubs -Cheap lights for bikes (I've heard tell of some creative holiday string-light setups) -ideas for rust proofing/rust prevention concerning steel frames, spokes, hub bodies, etc... the stuff that typically looks drippy and nasty.
Thoughts?
On Jan 11, 2008 3:22 PM, plan_9@riseup.net wrote:
Hey, I thought that having piles of old freewheels might be a problem common to bike collectives and wanted to see what folks did with them, or any other non-standard uses for bike parts. We have just "discovered" that you can pull apart a freewheel with two chain whips, one on the outer cog and the other on the third (the second is sometimes also threaded like the outermost) and apply opposite force. This usually involves two people lots of grunting and yelling, then the outer most ring will thread off (sometimes the second and third are also threaded) then the rest just slide off. The lowest three cogs are between 14-20 tooth which is perfect single speed range. So... we have built up a couple bikes using a single chainring in front and a 14t and a 18 or 20t threaded back onto the freewheel to make what I believe are called "dinglespeeds" which is basically a singlespeed setup with the option of loosening the rear axle, moving the chain over to the other cog and re-tensioning the chain in the dropouts (have to be horizontal). This allows us to build up really basic, low maintenance bikes that have both a "winter gear" and a "summer gear" (since we are in the brutal north) or I suppose if we actually had hills or trails, "on-road gear" and an "off-road gear". I know the concept of a dinglespeed has been kicked around a bit in the SS world, but usually it's done with respacing a cassette w/ two cogs, which are a rare commodity in our shop. Have other folks experimented with this setup? Good results? We have only built up a few, and thus far it has worked out pretty well on the bikes we are testing it on. Also, what kinds of other projects have folks done with either re purposing bike parts in a creative way or modifying them to breath new life into shop excess? Thanks, Andrew FM Community Bicycle Workshop
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
...C) Anybody have success in crafting a classy tensioner out of, say, old SIS derailleurs?
not a derailleur solution, but a chain tension one sans dropout nonetheless. i think i saw this on chicagofreakbike.org, but i can't find it now. i have used it in my own tallbike application, so i know it works. perhaps a little clunkier than a derailleur fake out, tho. it is pretty elegant, and it looks freakin sweet in action, and people don't believe that it works without falling apart.
just get a loose sprocket or chainwheel that's larger than the cog, and that filles out the chain somewhere between the cog and the chainwheel. the chain would then not go in a straight line from bottom of CW to bottom of FW, and vice versa, but from bottom of CW to bottom of floating chainwheel, to bottom of freewheel; from top of FW to top of floating chainwheel, to top of chainwheel. hard to put into words, but if you can figure it out, it works awesomely. at first, it seems like it wouldn't work, or it would require a specific number of teeth in order not to walk to the front or the rear, but the truth is that the chain is moving forward (at the top of the loop) just as fast/many links as it is moving backwards (at the bottom of the loop.)
it doesn't take some magic gear ratio figuring, just some "try to find one that fits" until it works. i'm guessing most people on this list, and especially reading this thread will have access to enough different sized chainrings/large cogs to make this work. or at least try it.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote: | just get a loose sprocket or chainwheel that's larger than the cog, and that | filles out the chain somewhere between the cog and the chainwheel. the chain | would then not go in a straight line from bottom of CW to bottom of FW, and | vice versa, but from bottom of CW to bottom of floating chainwheel, to | bottom of freewheel; from top of FW to top of floating chainwheel, to top of | chainwheel. hard to put into words, but if you can figure it out, it works | awesomely. at first, it seems like it wouldn't work, or it would require a | specific number of teeth in order not to walk to the front or the rear, but | the truth is that the chain is moving forward (at the top of the loop) just | as fast/many links as it is moving backwards (at the bottom of the loop.)
from wikipedia's entry on "fixed-gear bicycles":
~ * A "Ghost" or "floating" chainring. An additional chainring placed in the drive train between the driving chainring and sprocket. The top of the chain moves it forward at the same speed that the bottom of the chain moves it backwards, giving the appearance that it is floating in the chain.
i'm pretty sure i know the tallbike you're talking about, josh, but i can't seem to find the photo, either. but the marvelous atomic zombie provides us with this:
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F5W/VGOF/B01ES9J3YPJ/F5WVGOFB01ES9J...
leave it to the freak bikers to invent the problem *and* the solution, then export it to the rest of the world!
- -bB
chiBikeProject
that's the one. when you think it thru, it makes total sense that it works, but when you see it in action, it just looks wrong.
thanks for the link, bB.
On Jan 13, 2008 5:05 PM, An Undercover Cop undercovercop@riseup.net wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote: | just get a loose sprocket or chainwheel that's larger than the cog, and that | filles out the chain somewhere between the cog and the chainwheel. the chain | would then not go in a straight line from bottom of CW to bottom of FW, and | vice versa, but from bottom of CW to bottom of floating chainwheel, to | bottom of freewheel; from top of FW to top of floating chainwheel, to top of | chainwheel. hard to put into words, but if you can figure it out, it works | awesomely. at first, it seems like it wouldn't work, or it would require a | specific number of teeth in order not to walk to the front or the rear, but | the truth is that the chain is moving forward (at the top of the loop) just | as fast/many links as it is moving backwards (at the bottom of the loop.)
from wikipedia's entry on "fixed-gear bicycles":
~ * A "Ghost" or "floating" chainring. An additional chainring placed in the drive train between the driving chainring and sprocket. The top of the chain moves it forward at the same speed that the bottom of the chain moves it backwards, giving the appearance that it is floating in the chain.
i'm pretty sure i know the tallbike you're talking about, josh, but i can't seem to find the photo, either. but the marvelous atomic zombie provides us with this:
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F5W/VGOF/B01ES9J3YPJ/F5WVGOFB01ES9J...
leave it to the freak bikers to invent the problem *and* the solution, then export it to the rest of the world!
- -bB
chiBikeProject -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFHiqc7SfGaTCxqHXERAj4bAJ0Td8twy/+DEB8sZmHSrMPhpfWknQCeLAcA GXJcP7uORnWHCpEpEllR07c= =/UHg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
On 11-Jan-08, at 10:58 PM, Peter Morsch wrote:
(snip)
Other Burning Q's I have: -cutting new threads into the BB shells of old, cottered-crank
Raleighs to make 'em compatible with new seale BBs.
The ubiquitous Sheldon Brown covers the various options with old
Raleighs:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html#cotterless
-Effective (i.e., non-destructive) Cottered Crank removal (and re- usage)
You really do need the correct press to get the pins out. While Park
and the other companies no longer make these, a new model is still
available:
http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/
It'd be worth the expense just to save some nice old bikes.
-ways to prevent cold weather pawl freeze up in cassette hubs
Use internal gear hubs! While they also use pawls I've never had one
stick on me (while I *have* had them stick on derailer winter
bikes). Ok, so that did not really answer your question...
-Cheap lights for bikes (I've heard tell of some creative holiday
string-light setups)
HPVOoO here in Ottawa have done the holiday lights for fun. You need
the new LED lights (for least amount of battery drain), a battery,
and a voltage inverter. See the first link at:
http://hpv.tricolour.net/events-2006.html
Add it all up and the average LED headlight is cheaper. Another
option, old bottle-style tire-rubbing dynamo lights, though they are
a drag (literally) when on, and don't stay on when you stop.
-ideas for rust proofing/rust prevention concerning steel frames,
spokes, hub bodies, etc... the stuff that typically looks drippy
and nasty.
Vaseline! Coating your bike in this stuff will also make the it more
aero, because the wind will just slip right by. ;)
Mark (the always-helpful)
Hi all, Could you kindly remove me from you mailing list. Our bike projects are very much different from yours, and I don't have a whole lot to contribute to yours. Cheers, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Rehder" mark@re-cycles.ca To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Piles of freewheels?
On 11-Jan-08, at 10:58 PM, Peter Morsch wrote:
(snip)
Other Burning Q's I have: -cutting new threads into the BB shells of old, cottered-crank Raleighs to make 'em compatible with new seale BBs.
The ubiquitous Sheldon Brown covers the various options with old Raleighs:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html#cotterless
-Effective (i.e., non-destructive) Cottered Crank removal (and re- usage)
You really do need the correct press to get the pins out. While Park and the other companies no longer make these, a new model is still available:
http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/
It'd be worth the expense just to save some nice old bikes.
-ways to prevent cold weather pawl freeze up in cassette hubs
Use internal gear hubs! While they also use pawls I've never had one stick on me (while I *have* had them stick on derailer winter bikes). Ok, so that did not really answer your question...
-Cheap lights for bikes (I've heard tell of some creative holiday string-light setups)
HPVOoO here in Ottawa have done the holiday lights for fun. You need the new LED lights (for least amount of battery drain), a battery, and a voltage inverter. See the first link at:
http://hpv.tricolour.net/events-2006.html
Add it all up and the average LED headlight is cheaper. Another option, old bottle-style tire-rubbing dynamo lights, though they are a drag (literally) when on, and don't stay on when you stop.
-ideas for rust proofing/rust prevention concerning steel frames, spokes, hub bodies, etc... the stuff that typically looks drippy and nasty.
Vaseline! Coating your bike in this stuff will also make the it more aero, because the wind will just slip right by. ;)
Mark (the always-helpful) _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1219 - Release Date: 1/11/2008 10:19 AM
Vaseline? Really?
Those folks at the HPVOoO are NOT to be trusted- dang! They have some Wild stuff in their crew! The Tandem tallbike looks like a bloody, bloody disaster waiting to happen, and I love it. Thanks for the heads up-
And as for internal gears- I hear you on that one. My Bendix KickBack is kicking tail this winter- coaster brakes are a trip- some (if not all) of the beneficial fun of a fixee, with the added bonus ability a little move I call the "coasting snowdrift buster" (a headlong smash into dozer debris) and, of course, two speeds and no cabling.
I want to build a bunch of 26" rims onto coaster hubs for this explicit, snowy purpose.
And vaseline, huh? I feel like such a sucker (and, to be honest, sort of a creep) for smearing it on my beloved bike, but if it works, it works... it's so danged sticky, though... gosh...
peace. pete.
On Jan 12, 2008 12:08 AM, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 11-Jan-08, at 10:58 PM, Peter Morsch wrote:
(snip)
Other Burning Q's I have: -cutting new threads into the BB shells of old, cottered-crank Raleighs to make 'em compatible with new seale BBs.
The ubiquitous Sheldon Brown covers the various options with old Raleighs:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html#cotterless
-Effective (i.e., non-destructive) Cottered Crank removal (and re- usage)
You really do need the correct press to get the pins out. While Park and the other companies no longer make these, a new model is still available:
http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/
It'd be worth the expense just to save some nice old bikes.
-ways to prevent cold weather pawl freeze up in cassette hubs
Use internal gear hubs! While they also use pawls I've never had one stick on me (while I *have* had them stick on derailer winter bikes). Ok, so that did not really answer your question...
-Cheap lights for bikes (I've heard tell of some creative holiday string-light setups)
HPVOoO here in Ottawa have done the holiday lights for fun. You need the new LED lights (for least amount of battery drain), a battery, and a voltage inverter. See the first link at:
http://hpv.tricolour.net/events-2006.html
Add it all up and the average LED headlight is cheaper. Another option, old bottle-style tire-rubbing dynamo lights, though they are a drag (literally) when on, and don't stay on when you stop.
-ideas for rust proofing/rust prevention concerning steel frames, spokes, hub bodies, etc... the stuff that typically looks drippy and nasty.
Vaseline! Coating your bike in this stuff will also make the it more aero, because the wind will just slip right by. ;)
Mark (the always-helpful) _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
participants (6)
-
An Undercover Cop -
Mark Rehder -
Peter Morsch -
plan_9＠riseup.net -
ROBERT BURCHELL -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com