The problem with this sell,sell,sell approach is that it can put you in clear "competition" with bike shops. We want/must be friendly with the local bike shops. Additionally, unless you have a large account with the wholesalers, your account will be shut down. (I know, mine was under this sell philosphy.)
--- On Tue, 1/20/09, BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com wrote:
From: BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com Subject: [TheThinkTank] sales out of control. To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 4:45 PM
Mechanics will fight this note tooth and nail. They do not believe that the knowledge they have earned makes them worthy of professional benefits. Sell sell sell if you are afraid of selling hire a sales person, Sell bikes, sell classes, sell parts, so you can afford rent, healthcare, salaries, and afford to give back to the community more than you take from it. You are not in business to get broke, you are there to give the community a resource. Earning a Bike is different than undervaluing your bike building/ repair services. If someone is give you their time you can give them a discount on your professional services. Sell your service for top dollar, give back to your volunteers and pay your employees. YOU ARE IN BUSINESS Non for Profit is not a go broke fast scheme. If you are broke all the time how can you give to the community when you are sick or injured? How can you afford to get the tools or the training you need for your staff? How can you afford to take your youth or adults on events or programs outside the shop? You are Worth a lot, charge for it, respect those that volunteer and promote volunteerism for its discounts if you feel the need to give away cheap bikes. SELL SELL SELL you are worth it. Christopher Wallace Chicago P.S. I love selling classes, it is a great way to find inspired volunteers. Adult students can become Mechanics, educators, promoters, lawyers, mentors, shippers, government liaisons, and more than you can even dream of. SELL Classes
Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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wait wait wait.
running a community bike shop or co-op is being "in business"?
furthermore, if "your" mechanics fight you, what claim do you have for being a bike collective?
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Bruce Lien bikedadlien@yahoo.com wrote:
The problem with this sell,sell,sell approach is that it can put you in clear "competition" with bike shops. We want/must be friendly with the local bike shops. Additionally, unless you have a large account with the wholesalers, your account will be shut down. (I know, mine was under this sell philosphy.)
--- On Tue, 1/20/09, BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com wrote:
From: BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com Subject: [TheThinkTank] sales out of control. To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 4:45 PM
Mechanics will fight this note tooth and nail. They do not believe that the knowledge they have earned makes them worthy of professional benefits.
Sell sell sell if you are afraid of selling hire a sales person, Sell bikes, sell classes, sell parts, so you can afford rent, healthcare, salaries, and afford to give back to the community more than you take from it.
You are not in business to get broke, you are there to give the community a resource. Earning a Bike is different than undervaluing your bike building/ repair services. If someone is give you their time you can give them a discount on your professional services.
Sell your service for top dollar, give back to your volunteers and pay your employees. YOU ARE IN BUSINESS Non for Profit is not a go broke fast scheme.
If you are broke all the time how can you give to the community when you are sick or injured? How can you afford to get the tools or the training you need for your staff? How can you afford to take your youth or adults on events or programs outside the shop? You are Worth a lot, charge for it, respect those that volunteer and promote volunteerism for its discounts if you feel the need to give away cheap bikes.
SELL SELL SELL you are worth it.
Christopher Wallace Chicago
P.S. I love selling classes, it is a great way to find inspired volunteers. Adult students can become Mechanics, educators, promoters, lawyers, mentors, shippers, government liaisons, and more than you can even dream of. SELL Classes
Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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Not everyone on this list is a bike collective. For example, I run a youth bike shop under an umbrella nonprofit affiliated with a university. We run afterschool, weekend and summer youth programs. We have been toying with the idea of expanding into bike sales and adopting a "business model" for a while. In fact, we just recieved a grant to seed fund the "business" end of our operation as both a means of self generating revenue for our programs and teaching life skills "entrepreneurship" to local youth. I would advise organizers not to shy away from the business model, so long as there is a clearly defined outcomes and mission to keep your organization in check. Raising funds and covering costs is not selling out. Lets not forget that all co-ops are a form of business.
FWIW, we don't sell new items (aside from cables), and the local bike
shops seem to like us just fine. Our bikes start at $20 for an out-
of-the-pile beater, to at most $150 for a fully-overhauled machine.
For most shops the new bikes start at $300.
Heck, even the nearby for-profit used bike shop supports us because,
as the owner says, "as long as people are on bikes it's a good thing,
wherever the bikes come from". With our move last year we ended up
only being about four blocks from him, which he liked, because he has
a much larger inventory than we do, so we send folks over there if
they can't find what they're looking for. And in turn, if the bike
they buy has issues he doesn't want to deal with he tells them to go
to us and we'll help them make it right. :)
Mark
On 21-Jan-09, at 8:52 AM, Bruce Lien wrote:
The problem with this sell,sell,sell approach is that it can put
you in clear "competition" with bike shops. We want/must be
friendly with the local bike shops. Additionally, unless you have a
large account with the wholesalers, your account will be shut down.
(I know, mine was under this sell philosphy.)--- On Tue, 1/20/09, BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com wrote:
From: BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com Subject: [TheThinkTank] sales out of control. To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 4:45 PM
Mechanics will fight this note tooth and nail. They do not believe
that the knowledge they have earned makes them worthy of
professional benefits.Sell sell sell if you are afraid of selling hire a sales person,
Sell bikes, sell classes, sell parts, so you can afford rent,
healthcare, salaries, and afford to give back to the community more
than you take from it.You are not in business to get broke, you are there to give the
community a resource. Earning a Bike is different than undervaluing
your bike building/ repair services. If someone is give you their
time you can give them a discount on your professional services.Sell your service for top dollar, give back to your volunteers and
pay your employees. YOU ARE IN BUSINESS Non for Profit is not a go
broke fast scheme.If you are broke all the time how can you give to the community
when you are sick or injured? How can you afford to get the tools
or the training you need for your staff? How can you afford to take
your youth or adults on events or programs outside the shop? You
are Worth a lot, charge for it, respect those that volunteer and
promote volunteerism for its discounts if you feel the need to give
away cheap bikes.SELL SELL SELL you are worth it.
Christopher Wallace Chicago
P.S. I love selling classes, it is a great way to find inspired
volunteers. Adult students can become Mechanics, educators,
promoters, lawyers, mentors, shippers, government liaisons, and
more than you can even dream of. SELL ClassesInauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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In my experience as a for-profit bike shop employee, bike coop volunteer, and bike shop customer here in Richmond, VA and in the DC area, the two business models (non- or low-profit vs. for-profit) serve, generally, very different markets and hence don't significantly compete with one another. The folks who can afford to go to a 'real' bike shop tend to do so. The folks who can't tend to stick to cheaper alternatives.
Here in Richmond, there's the usual for-profit local shops and then there's the low-profit used place. The latter is not as clean, a little more attitude, mostly used stuff, and around half the price of the other shops. The bike work might not be as clean and tidy, but it's good and functional. The guy who runs it isn't interested in making money out the wazoo. His customers break down, basically, as follows:
- people who can't afford the 'real' bike shops (the Wal-Mart bike crowd,
casual commuters, most students)
- people who can see he's got great deals on used stuff and don't mind the
rough-around-the-edges aspect (e.g. serious bike nerds like myself)
- the BMX crowd, which is unserved elsewhere in town
This is pretty similar demographics to the small non-profit I've volunteered at a couple times.
These aren't the bread-&-butter customers of the higher-end shops; they depend, generally, on upper-middle-class folks buying new bikes to "get into biking" and/or the high-zoot racing crowd.
/business school much?
Ethan
http://bikebuilding.blogspot.com On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
FWIW, we don't sell new items (aside from cables), and the local bike shops seem to like us just fine. Our bikes start at $20 for an out-of-the-pile beater, to at most $150 for a fully-overhauled machine. For most shops the new bikes start at $300.
Heck, even the nearby for-profit used bike shop supports us because, as the owner says, "as long as people are on bikes it's a good thing, wherever the bikes come from". With our move last year we ended up only being about four blocks from him, which he liked, because he has a much larger inventory than we do, so we send folks over there if they can't find what they're looking for. And in turn, if the bike they buy has issues he doesn't want to deal with he tells them to go to us and we'll help them make it right. :)
Mark
On 21-Jan-09, at 8:52 AM, Bruce Lien wrote:
The problem with this sell,sell,sell approach is that it can put you in
clear "competition" with bike shops. We want/must be friendly with the local bike shops. Additionally, unless you have a large account with the wholesalers, your account will be shut down. (I know, mine was under this sell philosphy.)
--- On Tue, 1/20/09, BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com wrote:
From: BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com Subject: [TheThinkTank] sales out of control. To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 4:45 PM
Mechanics will fight this note tooth and nail. They do not believe that the knowledge they have earned makes them worthy of professional benefits.
Sell sell sell if you are afraid of selling hire a sales person, Sell bikes, sell classes, sell parts, so you can afford rent, healthcare, salaries, and afford to give back to the community more than you take from it.
You are not in business to get broke, you are there to give the community a resource. Earning a Bike is different than undervaluing your bike building/ repair services. If someone is give you their time you can give them a discount on your professional services.
Sell your service for top dollar, give back to your volunteers and pay your employees. YOU ARE IN BUSINESS Non for Profit is not a go broke fast scheme.
If you are broke all the time how can you give to the community when you are sick or injured? How can you afford to get the tools or the training you need for your staff? How can you afford to take your youth or adults on events or programs outside the shop? You are Worth a lot, charge for it, respect those that volunteer and promote volunteerism for its discounts if you feel the need to give away cheap bikes.
SELL SELL SELL you are worth it.
Christopher Wallace Chicago
P.S. I love selling classes, it is a great way to find inspired volunteers. Adult students can become Mechanics, educators, promoters, lawyers, mentors, shippers, government liaisons, and more than you can even dream of. SELL Classes
Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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PLease please I have tried sending an email (to the address below) twice now. If anyone knows who the moderator is or how I can get taken off this list please help me get off it!! I am living on a ship outside of the US and will not be home for at least 3 months. And cannot deal with the massive emails that are posted. Sorry to post this to everyone. Ynes
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:31:06 -0500 From: elabowitz@gmail.com To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] sales out of control.
In my experience as a for-profit bike shop employee, bike coop volunteer, and bike shop customer here in Richmond, VA and in the DC area, the two business models (non- or low-profit vs. for-profit) serve, generally, very different markets and hence don't significantly compete with one another.
The folks who can afford to go to a 'real' bike shop tend to do so. The folks who can't tend to stick to cheaper alternatives.
Here in Richmond, there's the usual for-profit local shops and then there's the low-profit used place. The latter is not as clean, a little more attitude, mostly used stuff, and around half the price of the other shops. The bike work might not be as clean and tidy, but it's good and functional. The guy who runs it isn't interested in making money out the wazoo. His customers break down, basically, as follows:
- people who can't afford the 'real' bike shops (the Wal-Mart bike crowd, casual commuters, most students)
- people who can see he's got great deals on used stuff and don't mind the rough-around-the-edges aspect (e.g. serious bike nerds like myself)
- the BMX crowd, which is unserved elsewhere in town
This is pretty similar demographics to the small non-profit I've volunteered at a couple times.
These aren't the bread-&-butter customers of the higher-end shops; they depend, generally, on upper-middle-class folks buying new bikes to "get into biking" and/or the high-zoot racing crowd.
/business school much?
Ethan
http://bikebuilding.blogspot.com
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
FWIW, we don't sell new items (aside from cables), and the local bike shops seem to like us just fine. Our bikes start at $20 for an out-of-the-pile beater, to at most $150 for a fully-overhauled machine. For most shops the new bikes start at $300.
Heck, even the nearby for-profit used bike shop supports us because, as the owner says, "as long as people are on bikes it's a good thing, wherever the bikes come from". With our move last year we ended up only being about four blocks from him, which he liked, because he has a much larger inventory than we do, so we send folks over there if they can't find what they're looking for. And in turn, if the bike they buy has issues he doesn't want to deal with he tells them to go to us and we'll help them make it right. :)
Mark
On 21-Jan-09, at 8:52 AM, Bruce Lien wrote:
The problem with this sell,sell,sell approach is that it can put you in clear "competition" with bike shops. We want/must be friendly with the local bike shops. Additionally, unless you have a large account with the wholesalers, your account will be shut down. (I know, mine was under this sell philosphy.)
--- On Tue, 1/20/09, BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com wrote:
From: BovineOaks@aol.com BovineOaks@aol.com
Subject: [TheThinkTank] sales out of control. To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 4:45 PM
Mechanics will fight this note tooth and nail. They do not believe that the knowledge they have earned makes them worthy of professional benefits.
Sell sell sell if you are afraid of selling hire a sales person, Sell bikes, sell classes, sell parts, so you can afford rent, healthcare, salaries, and afford to give back to the community more than you take from it.
You are not in business to get broke, you are there to give the community a resource. Earning a Bike is different than undervaluing your bike building/ repair services. If someone is give you their time you can give them a discount on your professional services.
Sell your service for top dollar, give back to your volunteers and pay your employees. YOU ARE IN BUSINESS Non for Profit is not a go broke fast scheme.
If you are broke all the time how can you give to the community when you are sick or injured? How can you afford to get the tools or the training you need for your staff? How can you afford to take your youth or adults on events or programs outside the shop? You are Worth a lot, charge for it, respect those that volunteer and promote volunteerism for its discounts if you feel the need to give away cheap bikes.
SELL SELL SELL you are worth it.
Christopher Wallace Chicago
P.S. I love selling classes, it is a great way to find inspired volunteers. Adult students can become Mechanics, educators, promoters, lawyers, mentors, shippers, government liaisons, and more than you can even dream of. SELL Classes
Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.
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participants (6)
-
adam schwartz -
Bruce Lien -
Ethan Labowitz -
Mark Rehder -
Rigel Christian -
ynes d