That document points out a lot of distinct problems that are important to consider. However, with a few exceptions, it doesn't ground itself in examples of *how or why these are specifically white problems*.
Additionally it:
-demonizes some utilitarian goals, such as perfectionism -demonizes goals that are crucial to wisdom, such as objectivity (not to suggest subjectivity is inherently detrimental to that process) -attaches debatable characteristics and behaviors to well-known words -demonizes goals that are crucial for struggling nonprofit organizations, such as a sense of urgency -contradicts itself by criticizing lack of transparency in decision and rule making while also criticizing documentation -sets up a condition wherein one can be accused of white supremacy by defending, say, perfectionism or objectivity
Many of the issues presented in the document are clearly important ones we all face, and the gist is worth meditating on. The document is, however, an "oldie"... in that it needs several redrafts.
One might even say... urgently.
Apologies in advance to everyone (including Angel) for any flame war this might erupt.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-10 15:25, Angel York wrote:
old but good
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Nicholas and All, I get why the title and headings might cause you to say so, but upon reading the article I think you are way off. I may have not read it were it not for your objection, so I sincerely thank you for writing to the group.
I find the article very helpful. I see these many of these cultural dynamics play out at our Chicago community shop. If we want to be anti-racist, we have to be better about sharing power. My thoughts on your response are below. Best, -Matthew from The Recyclery
The document is not describing “white problems.” The intro says as much. It is describing elements in “White supremacy culture.” I admit, that it’s was confusing for me at first. As I read the list I came to see that the “culture” the article is describing, is a grouping of practices, attitudes, and beliefs that tend to uphold power dynamics that exclude people of color. This culture works against racial justice.
The “perfectionism” and “objectivity” described might be more clearly named as “so called perfectionism” and “so called objectivity.” With “perfectionism,” it is not describing being careful to get it right. Instead it is a warning about being overly critical of others work and neglecting to give praise and not being able to see to take advantage of their work. With “objectivity” it is not an indictment of the scientific method. Instead, it is sceptical of those who hold “objectivity” as something they alone possess. Sometimes people and organizations don’t seek out subjective feedback. They become unresponsive and deaf to the important expressions of their stakeholders. They are not measuring the right things, but they don’t know it because they are not valuing subjective experiences. Do you feel me? -Matthew
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 2:24 PM Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
That document points out a lot of distinct problems that are important to consider. However, with a few exceptions, it doesn't ground itself in examples of *how or why these are specifically white problems*.
Additionally it:
-demonizes some utilitarian goals, such as perfectionism -demonizes goals that are crucial to wisdom, such as objectivity (not to suggest subjectivity is inherently detrimental to that process) -attaches debatable characteristics and behaviors to well-known words -demonizes goals that are crucial for struggling nonprofit organizations, such as a sense of urgency -contradicts itself by criticizing lack of transparency in decision and rule making while also criticizing documentation -sets up a condition wherein one can be accused of white supremacy by defending, say, perfectionism or objectivity
Many of the issues presented in the document are clearly important ones we all face, and the gist is worth meditating on. The document is, however, an "oldie"... in that it needs several redrafts.
One might even say... urgently.
Apologies in advance to everyone (including Angel) for any flame war this might erupt.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-10 15:25, Angel York wrote:
old but good
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or... ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
--
Matthew McMunn -Volunteer & Outreach Coordinator- (he/him/his)
http://therecyclery.org/ Facebook @TheRecyclery Instagram @TheRecyclery
Program Hours: Bike Sales: Saturday 10am-noon Open Shop: Tuesday 7pm-9pm, Thursday 7pm-9pm, Saturday 1-5pm Youth Open Shop Monday: 4-6pm Volunteer Hours: Tuesday: 12-5pm, Friday: 5-8pm Spanish Open Shop 1st Mondays 7pm-9pm W.T.F. (Women, Trans, Femme) Night 4th Sundays 6pm-9pm Volunteer Orientation 2nd and 4th Thursdays 6pm
Matthew,
I think those observations are on target, and that core of authenticity is why I called for a redraft. A document that is meant to change and open minds shouldn't instead confuse them, require translation, and harbor significant dangers with misinterpretation.
Sounds like you're progressing on that redraft :)
I'd suggest consulting with Angel and Judith during the process though.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-12 14:26, Matthew McMunn wrote:
Nicholas and All, I get why the title and headings might cause you to say so, but upon reading the article I think you are way off. I may have not read it were it not for your objection, so I sincerely thank you for writing to the group.
I find the article very helpful. I see these many of these cultural dynamics play out at our Chicago community shop. If we want to be anti-racist, we have to be better about sharing power. My thoughts on your response are below. Best, -Matthew from The Recyclery
The document is not describing “white problems.” The intro says as much. It is describing elements in “White supremacy culture.” I admit, that it’s was confusing for me at first. As I read the list I came to see that the “culture” the article is describing, is a grouping of practices, attitudes, and beliefs that tend to uphold power dynamics that exclude people of color. This culture works against racial justice.
The “perfectionism” and “objectivity” described might be more clearly named as “so called perfectionism” and “so called objectivity.” With “perfectionism,” it is not describing being careful to get it right. Instead it is a warning about being overly critical of others work and neglecting to give praise and not being able to see to take advantage of their work. With “objectivity” it is not an indictment of the scientific method. Instead, it is sceptical of those who hold “objectivity” as something they alone possess. Sometimes people and organizations don’t seek out subjective feedback. They become unresponsive and deaf to the important expressions of their stakeholders. They are not measuring the right things, but they don’t know it because they are not valuing subjective experiences. Do you feel me? -Matthew
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 2:24 PM Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
That document points out a lot of distinct problems that are important to consider. However, with a few exceptions, it doesn't ground itself in examples of *how or why these are specifically white problems*.
Additionally it:
-demonizes some utilitarian goals, such as perfectionism -demonizes goals that are crucial to wisdom, such as objectivity (not to suggest subjectivity is inherently detrimental to that process) -attaches debatable characteristics and behaviors to well-known words -demonizes goals that are crucial for struggling nonprofit organizations, such as a sense of urgency -contradicts itself by criticizing lack of transparency in decision and rule making while also criticizing documentation -sets up a condition wherein one can be accused of white supremacy by defending, say, perfectionism or objectivity
Many of the issues presented in the document are clearly important ones we all face, and the gist is worth meditating on. The document is, however, an "oldie"... in that it needs several redrafts.
One might even say... urgently.
Apologies in advance to everyone (including Angel) for any flame war this might erupt.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-10 15:25, Angel York wrote:
old but good
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or... ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
--
Matthew McMunn -Volunteer & Outreach Coordinator- (he/him/his)
http://therecyclery.org/ Facebook @TheRecyclery Instagram @TheRecyclery
Program Hours: Bike Sales: Saturday 10am-noon Open Shop: Tuesday 7pm-9pm, Thursday 7pm-9pm, Saturday 1-5pm Youth Open Shop Monday: 4-6pm Volunteer Hours: Tuesday: 12-5pm, Friday: 5-8pm Spanish Open Shop 1st Mondays 7pm-9pm W.T.F. (Women, Trans, Femme) Night 4th Sundays 6pm-9pm Volunteer Orientation 2nd and 4th Thursdays 6pm
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Thanks for your input, Matthew and Nicholas. Thought provoking, for sure.
Ride on,
Judith C Feist Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley
*"*Radical simply means 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
I think [the bicycle] has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world...It gives a woman a feeling of freedom and self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
All,
Rereading over this thread, this really stood out to me:
They are not measuring the right things, but they don’t know it because they are not valuing subjective experiences. Do you feel me?
Yeah, I definitely feel you.
Thanks.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-12 21:38, Judith Feist wrote:
Thanks for your input, Matthew and Nicholas. Thought provoking, for sure.
Ride on,
Judith C Feist Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley
*"*Radical simply means 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
I think [the bicycle] has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world...It gives a woman a feeling of freedom and self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Just as a follow-up to this thread, I just ran across the same material incorporated into a larger workshop:
https://resourcegeneration.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2016-dRworks-workb...
I believe it's by some of the same authors, and may be a more updated version. This version definitely expands on and contextualises the excerpt which Angel posted, and is well worth the read. On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 at 16:05, Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
All,
Rereading over this thread, this really stood out to me:
They are not measuring the right things, but they don’t know it because they are not valuing subjective experiences. Do you feel me?
Yeah, I definitely feel you.
Thanks.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-12 21:38, Judith Feist wrote:
Thanks for your input, Matthew and Nicholas. Thought provoking, for sure.
Ride on,
Judith C Feist Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley
*"*Radical simply means 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
I think [the bicycle] has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world...It gives a woman a feeling of freedom and self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Thanks for sharing, Kieran. (:
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:16 PM Kieran O'Neill oneillkza@gmail.com wrote:
Just as a follow-up to this thread, I just ran across the same material incorporated into a larger workshop:
https://resourcegeneration.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2016-dRworks-workb...
I believe it's by some of the same authors, and may be a more updated version. This version definitely expands on and contextualises the excerpt which Angel posted, and is well worth the read. On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 at 16:05, Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
All,
Rereading over this thread, this really stood out to me:
They are not measuring the right things, but they don’t know it because they are not valuing subjective experiences. Do you feel me?
Yeah, I definitely feel you.
Thanks.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-12 21:38, Judith Feist wrote:
Thanks for your input, Matthew and Nicholas. Thought provoking, for sure.
Ride on,
Judith C Feist Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley
*"*Radical simply means 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
I think [the bicycle] has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world...It gives a woman a feeling of freedom and self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
This is awesome
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:59 PM Judith Feist judith@backalleybikes.org wrote:
Thanks for sharing, Kieran. (:
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:16 PM Kieran O'Neill oneillkza@gmail.com wrote:
Just as a follow-up to this thread, I just ran across the same material incorporated into a larger workshop:
https://resourcegeneration.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2016-dRworks-workb...
I believe it's by some of the same authors, and may be a more updated version. This version definitely expands on and contextualises the excerpt which Angel posted, and is well worth the read. On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 at 16:05, Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
All,
Rereading over this thread, this really stood out to me:
They are not measuring the right things, but they don’t know it
because
they are not valuing subjective experiences. Do you feel me?
Yeah, I definitely feel you.
Thanks.
cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-10-12 21:38, Judith Feist wrote:
Thanks for your input, Matthew and Nicholas. Thought provoking, for sure.
Ride on,
Judith C Feist Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley
*"*Radical simply means 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
I think [the bicycle] has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world...It gives a woman a feeling of freedom and self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
-- Judith C Feist Co Director, the Hub at Back Alley
*"*Radical simply means 'grasping things at the root'"- Angela Davis
"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." -Gloria Steinem
I think [the bicycle] has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world...It gives a woman a feeling of freedom and self-reliance.~Susan B. Anthony ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
--
Matthew McMunn -Volunteer & Outreach Coordinator- (he/him/his)
http://therecyclery.org/ Facebook @TheRecyclery Instagram @TheRecyclery
Program Hours: Bike Sales: Saturday 10am-noon Open Shop: Tuesday 7pm-9pm, Thursday 7pm-9pm, Saturday 1-5pm Youth Open Shop Monday: 4-6pm Volunteer Hours: Tuesday: 12-5pm, Friday: 5-8pm Spanish Open Shop 1st Mondays 7pm-9pm W.T.F. (Women, Trans, Femme) Night 4th Sundays 6pm-9pm Volunteer Orientation 2nd and 4th Thursdays 6pm
Thank you for sharing this, Angel! (: Greatly appreciated!
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:25 AM Angel York aniola@gmail.com wrote:
old but good ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
-
Angel York -
Cyclista Nicholas -
Judith Feist -
Kieran O'Neill -
Matthew McMunn