Impact of Co-ops on Commercial Bike Shops
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
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Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
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-- Kevin Dwyer
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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To second Mike, I have a "Two paragraph intro. I give when it's busy and I'm the only one in the coop. The relevant part is:
*We don't compete with the local bike shops and try to maintain a good relationship with them. We only keep basic repair parts in stock, tubes, cables, some tires. For the most part what's needed to keep a bike safe. Anything else you need to go see them. *
So the answer to most "Do you have . . . ?" retail questions are "Nope, sorry. We aren't a regular bike shop."
I like the "Wear parts." idea. Sums it up well.
If necessary I grab a bike route map and show them where the shops are.
Ron
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski <swandruski@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
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-- Kevin Dwyer
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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The bikerowave has had an exceedingly good relationship with local bike shops. We have taken active steps to cater to utilitarian bikes and not as much to the racer/ fixie crowd. We have also set prices so as not to undercut local bike shops for the parts we both carry. A lot of our donated used parts come from generous shops around the area. The only times there have been problems are when some local shops thought we were carrying wide tires to undercut them on the then new trend of fixie trick riders using wider tires but I think their shop was just having some financial or managerial problems and were looking at us to blame. I think the bike coop scene overwhelmingly puts more butts on bike seats and brings together the bike scene in such a way as to benefit local bike shops and their niche or higher-end focus.
I personally have trouble recommending some local bike shops in the area when I see them trying to sell patrons on completely unnecessary parts or services. I don't respect needless up-selling and/or used car salesman type tactics and think they are reprehensible and overall damage our community. I think it would be damaging to your coops reputation and community building efforts to endorse local bike shops that follow such practices. I would like to find a productive way to approach such shops and explain these frustrations at some point but as for now I just don't direct folks to these places.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Ron Kellis ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org wrote:
To second Mike, I have a "Two paragraph intro. I give when it's busy and I'm the only one in the coop. The relevant part is:
*We don't compete with the local bike shops and try to maintain a good relationship with them. We only keep basic repair parts in stock, tubes, cables, some tires. For the most part what's needed to keep a bike safe. Anything else you need to go see them. *
So the answer to most "Do you have . . . ?" retail questions are "Nope, sorry. We aren't a regular bike shop."
I like the "Wear parts." idea. Sums it up well.
If necessary I grab a bike route map and show them where the shops are.
Ron
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski < swandruski@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
-- Kevin Dwyer
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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I feel we're in an especially delicate situation locally here because the only bike shops in our city are very small family operations that deal partly in used bikes and really basic stuff, so even our limited tubes and tires and whatnot kind of cut into their business. There are lots of bigger, larger inventory shops several miles away, and our relationships seem mostly positive, ranging from support to indifference. We're just getting started in a set location here so we're kind of establishing our relationships. We do refer people to the closest shop and other shops regularly, and emphasize to customers and other shops that we are mainly about education and community service.
In the last couple weeks we've been putting together a bicycle swap meet and it's been a bit of an exercise in relationship building because I've been going into a bunch of bike shops in the area and introducing myself and the organization. We waived the small ($15) booth fee for the local shops that aren't living large as a gesture of goodwill. It looks like several bike shops are going to be coming out so perhaps it will be a good stepping stone for future coexistence.
- Paul
The Bicycle Tree shop: (714) 760-4681 811 N. Main St. Santa Ana, CA 92701 http://www.thebicycletree.org info@thebicycletree.org
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 13:17:34 -0700 From: wormsign@gmail.com To: ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org; thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Impact of Co-ops on Commercial Bike Shops
The bikerowave has had an exceedingly good relationship with local bike shops. We have taken active steps to cater to utilitarian bikes and not as much to the racer/ fixie crowd. We have also set prices so as not to undercut local bike shops for the parts we both carry. A lot of our donated used parts come from generous shops around the area. The only times there have been problems are when some local shops thought we were carrying wide tires to undercut them on the then new trend of fixie trick riders using wider tires but I think their shop was just having some financial or managerial problems and were looking at us to blame. I think the bike coop scene overwhelmingly puts more butts on bike seats and brings together the bike scene in such a way as to benefit local bike shops and their niche or higher-end focus.
I personally have trouble recommending some local bike shops in the area when I see them trying to sell patrons on completely unnecessary parts or services. I don't respect needless up-selling and/or used car salesman type tactics and think they are reprehensible and overall damage our community. I think it would be damaging to your coops reputation and community building efforts to endorse local bike shops that follow such practices. I would like to find a productive way to approach such shops and explain these frustrations at some point but as for now I just don't direct folks to these places.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Ron Kellis ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org wrote:
To second Mike, I have a "Two paragraph intro. I give when it's busy and I'm the only one in the coop. The relevant part is:
We don't compete with the local bike shops and try to maintain a good relationship with them. We only keep basic repair parts in stock, tubes, cables, some tires. For the most part what's needed to keep a bike safe. Anything else you need to go see them.
So the answer to most "Do you have . . . ?" retail questions are "Nope, sorry. We aren't a regular bike shop." I like the "Wear parts." idea. Sums it up well.
If necessary I grab a bike route map and show them where the shops are. Ron
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared. Thanks, Steve Andruski
swandruski@gmail.com
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
~ Abraham Lincoln
The ThinkTank mailing List
<a href="http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
This has been great feedback. It looks like small towns have the bigger challenges because of a limited customer base and smaller regular shops. This leads to more potential for overlap in customer bases between the regular shops and co-ops. I think we'll be in OK shape. While Rockville is not a large city by itself, it is in the DC metro area. All the nearby shops are aimed at selling new bikes, plus the normal routine repair work. I think the pro-active approach has a good chance of working fairly well. There's enough economic diversity that we'll have limited overlap in customers, and where we might take some repair business, we should expand the customer base for everyone in the long term.
Steve Andruski
On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 3:22 AM, The Bicycle Tree paul@thebicycletree.org wrote:
I feel we're in an especially delicate situation locally here because the only bike shops in our city are very small family operations that deal partly in used bikes and really basic stuff, so even our limited tubes and tires and whatnot kind of cut into their business. There are lots of bigger, larger inventory shops several miles away, and our relationships seem mostly positive, ranging from support to indifference. We're just getting started in a set location here so we're kind of establishing our relationships. We do refer people to the closest shop and other shops regularly, and emphasize to customers and other shops that we are mainly about education and community service.
In the last couple weeks we've been putting together a bicycle swap meet and it's been a bit of an exercise in relationship building because I've been going into a bunch of bike shops in the area and introducing myself and the organization. We waived the small ($15) booth fee for the local shops that aren't living large as a gesture of goodwill. It looks like several bike shops are going to be coming out so perhaps it will be a good stepping stone for future coexistence.
- Paul
The Bicycle Tree shop: (714) 760-4681 811 N. Main St. Santa Ana, CA 92701 http://www.thebicycletree.org info@thebicycletree.org
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 13:17:34 -0700 From: wormsign@gmail.com To: ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org; thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Impact of Co-ops on Commercial Bike Shops
The bikerowave has had an exceedingly good relationship with local bike shops. We have taken active steps to cater to utilitarian bikes and not as much to the racer/ fixie crowd. We have also set prices so as not to undercut local bike shops for the parts we both carry. A lot of our donated used parts come from generous shops around the area. The only times there have been problems are when some local shops thought we were carrying wide tires to undercut them on the then new trend of fixie trick riders using wider tires but I think their shop was just having some financial or managerial problems and were looking at us to blame. I think the bike coop scene overwhelmingly puts more butts on bike seats and brings together the bike scene in such a way as to benefit local bike shops and their niche or higher-end focus.
I personally have trouble recommending some local bike shops in the area when I see them trying to sell patrons on completely unnecessary parts or services. I don't respect needless up-selling and/or used car salesman type tactics and think they are reprehensible and overall damage our community. I think it would be damaging to your coops reputation and community building efforts to endorse local bike shops that follow such practices. I would like to find a productive way to approach such shops and explain these frustrations at some point but as for now I just don't direct folks to these places.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Ron Kellis ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org wrote:
To second Mike, I have a "Two paragraph intro. I give when it's busy and I'm the only one in the coop. The relevant part is:
*We don't compete with the local bike shops and try to maintain a good relationship with them. We only keep basic repair parts in stock, tubes, cables, some tires. For the most part what's needed to keep a bike safe. Anything else you need to go see them. *
So the answer to most "Do you have . . . ?" retail questions are "Nope, sorry. We aren't a regular bike shop."
I like the "Wear parts." idea. Sums it up well.
If necessary I grab a bike route map and show them where the shops are.
Ron
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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In our experience, there was animosity at first, but everyone fills a niche in the bike ecosystem here in Durham.
Best, Leslie Durham Bike Coop On Jun 19, 2014 3:26 PM, "Ron Kellis" ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org wrote:
To second Mike, I have a "Two paragraph intro. I give when it's busy and I'm the only one in the coop. The relevant part is:
*We don't compete with the local bike shops and try to maintain a good relationship with them. We only keep basic repair parts in stock, tubes, cables, some tires. For the most part what's needed to keep a bike safe. Anything else you need to go see them. *
So the answer to most "Do you have . . . ?" retail questions are "Nope, sorry. We aren't a regular bike shop."
I like the "Wear parts." idea. Sums it up well.
If necessary I grab a bike route map and show them where the shops are.
Ron
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski < swandruski@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
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-- Kevin Dwyer
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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Definitely want to echo that a big part of our symbiosis with the local bike shops here in Toronto is not undercutting prices on parts ( not hard since they often don't carry the lower end) but also a big sign that says "we will not fix it for you", full service belongs to our neighbors. On Jun 19, 2014 5:55 PM, "Leslie Peteya" lesliepeteya@gmail.com wrote:
In our experience, there was animosity at first, but everyone fills a niche in the bike ecosystem here in Durham.
Best, Leslie Durham Bike Coop On Jun 19, 2014 3:26 PM, "Ron Kellis" ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org wrote:
To second Mike, I have a "Two paragraph intro. I give when it's busy and I'm the only one in the coop. The relevant part is:
*We don't compete with the local bike shops and try to maintain a good relationship with them. We only keep basic repair parts in stock, tubes, cables, some tires. For the most part what's needed to keep a bike safe. Anything else you need to go see them. *
So the answer to most "Do you have . . . ?" retail questions are "Nope, sorry. We aren't a regular bike shop."
I like the "Wear parts." idea. Sums it up well.
If necessary I grab a bike route map and show them where the shops are.
Ron
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski < swandruski@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
The ThinkTank mailing List <a href=" http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org">Unsubscribe from this list</a>
-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
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-- Kevin Dwyer
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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Interesting question so much so it could be catastropic to achieving 100% community support. I run a program/bike coop called The BicycleXchange-community built bikes. Our philosophy is "promote them and they will promote you. Support them and they will support you." Rally community with kindness, ingenuity, and professionalism;thats it. Theres nothing to fear it all works out, in the end, even better than you can imagine. Good luck, much respect!. Paul Paulo Slater. BicycleXchange-community built bikes.
Definitely want to echo that a big part of our symbiosis with the local bike shops here in Toronto is not undercutting prices on parts ( not hard since they often don't carry the lower end) but also a big sign that says "we will not fix it for you", full service belongs to our neighbors. On Jun 19, 2014 5:55 PM, "Leslie Peteya" lesliepeteya@gmail.com wrote:
In our experience, there was animosity at first, but everyone fills a niche in the bike ecosystem here in Durham.
Best, Leslie Durham Bike Coop On Jun 19, 2014 3:26 PM, "Ron Kellis" ron.kellis@velocitycoop.org wrote:
To second Mike, I have a "Two paragraph intro. I give when it's busy and I'm the only one in the coop. The relevant part is:
*We don't compete with the local bike shops and try to maintain a good relationship with them. We only keep basic repair parts in stock, tubes, cables, some tires. For the most part what's needed to keep a bike safe. Anything else you need to go see them. *
So the answer to most "Do you have . . . ?" retail questions are "Nope, sorry. We aren't a regular bike shop."
I like the "Wear parts." idea. Sums it up well.
If necessary I grab a bike route map and show them where the shops are.
Ron
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Stephen Andruski swandruski@gmail.com wrote:
Its great to hear that a proactive approach worked. That's exactly why I'd like to do the same thing. Building the bike community should help everyone. And I like the idea of making it clear what the co-op does and does not do. I can imagine someone using the co-op to get an old bike back on the road and get back in shape. Then the person finds they're getting more serious and wants a new bike. This benefits the co-op, the commercial bike shop and the cyclist. I also like to think that knowing more about how a bike works and talking to experienced riders makes people smarter shoppers when they do go to the "real" bike shop.
Steve Andruski
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
Here in SLC we take a very active approach to engaging the local shops. When our new ED was hired, we toured the local shops to introduce him. We generally pitch the idea that we perform functions that shops can't but, that build a cycling community that the shops depend on. Some examples of programs like that are:
Bicycle valet for events Used parts for those too poor or bikes too old Bicycle social events Bicycle safety and commuter advocacy Youth and adult mechanics training
As a result, we frequently get valuable donations of parts and tools from these bicycle industry partners. Some shops have a bin they throw old parts in then forward to us. Be clear that you don't buy used parts or bikes and limit sales of new goods to "wear items," and I think you'll be surprised how much support you get. Co-ops/collectives/community shops often provide services that shops rather would not.
We plan to display a directory of local shops (with brands) for those wanting warranty service or seeking goods and services we can't/don't provide.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 11:14 AM, mpattisall < mike.pattisall@velocitycoop.org> wrote:
Our Co-op's former location was less than a block from a real bike shop. At first the bike shop owner was peeved but soon realized that many of our customers were coming to them for parts we did not have. Also, the bike shop was sending the co-op customers with bikes that " weren't really worth fixing". Co-ops and regular bike shops are two different animals and we get along pretty well with the shops near us ( Spokes, Big Wheel, Bicycle Pro Shop, Performance)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Stephen Andruski < swandruski@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm in the process of starting a bike co-op in the Rockville, MD area. Once we are established, I want to go and talk to the managers of the commercial bike shops in the area. Since I can foresee some potential antagonism based on the perception that the co-op will compete with them for repair business, I want to go armed with information. Does anyone know of any studies that show the economic impact of bike co-ops on the commercial shops in the same area? Along the same lines, does anyone have personal experience on the reaction of commercial shops to the start up of a co-op in "their" area? The more specific you can be in the responses, the better, though I can understand if you don't want to throw someone under the bus.
Any information would be helpful. We're still a few months away from actually needing this information, but I'd like to be prepared.
Thanks,
Steve Andruski swandruski@gmail.com
--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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-- Mike Pattisall http://velocitycoop.org/
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-- Kevin Dwyer
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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--
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln
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We are an urban neighborhood-based bike shop serving a low-income community. Our inventory is 95% recycled bike shop quality bikes (sans carbon fiber). We offer tutoring on mechanics and some work trade but generally charge standard bike shop prices for repairs, tune-ups, etc. Our bike prices are about the same as the local coop and one other shop that specializes in used bikes, but much lower than the regular bike shops. Before we opened, we visited with the other bike shops and they were neutral or even glad to have a place where they could send customers seeking lower-cost bikes. Good luck!
Nozomi Ikuta and James Watson Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery Cleveland, Ohio
participants (10)
-
Affordable Bikes Re-Cyclery -
Anibal Davila -
Kevin Dwyer -
Leslie Peteya -
mpattisall -
Paul Slater -
Ron Kellis -
Stephen Andruski -
The Bicycle Tree -
Vincenzo loco