hey brian. i'm open to taking the discussion off-list. alternatively, people who don't care could just not read anything that has the "weed & seed" subject line, or get their email program to filter it out for them.
there is always a debate that happens around this stuff, with some people saying "don't legitimize horrible organizations " and others saying "take the fuckers for all the money and resources they're worth." i tend to fall into the former mindset, but have respect for the latter. i mostly think the debate needs to happen so people are conscious of why they make the decisions they do.
on the other hand, when it gets to the point where the donor organization has any kind of control over the bike shop, even over how the money they gave gets used, i get wary and uncompromising really quickly. i think it ties in with the earlier discussion about hierarchy/non-hierarchy: i like to think we as grassroots groups should be able to meet our communities' needs without "necessary" evils like compromising our democratic structure or falling in with regressive forces in the community. other people may have experience that says otherwise, and of course all shops should be organized according to their particular situations. that said, as far as evils go, it's really important not to confuse "necessary" with "convenient", and it's even more important not to forget the fact that they are evils in the first place!
you'd certainly be welcome at our shop. our volunteers, like the people we serve, include university students, middle-aged suburbanites, and the odd racer, alongside homeless people and bike couriers, though the racers usually find it a lot harder to find parts they'd actually want on their bikes.
no one wants to come into a shop and be told they're an asshole because they also drive a car sometimes, or they're wearing the wrong clothes, or they have the wrong diet, or whatever. on the other hand, it's important to be careful with positive sounding ideas like having no moral/political agenda. if we try to be apolitical, we end up supporting the politics that are already dominant (like those of valero, for example). wanting to get more bikes on the road is already a political agenda, and bike shop volunteers need to have discussions around what kind of politics they want to represent. not to exclude people, even if they stubbornly refuse to cuff their pants, but to consciously promote values we might think are important like diversity, democracy, ecology, and communities free of gentrification.
take care, macho http://bike-dump.ca/
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington, Inc. wrote:
I am beginning to understand a little better, thank you. It calls to mind a local bike racing team which is sponsored by Valero (formerly Motiva) which has the distinction of being the past, present and probably future "biggest air polluter in DE".... the irony is fantastic here and I don't think anyone is really fooled into thinking Valero has changed its ways.
This also brings to mind a huge debate we had when we were talking about starting a community bike shop. Do we accept donations from corporations who are merely trying to look good (PR baby) and possibly cover up past or present transgressions? We never truly decided anything and honestly it's never even come up, until now I guess. I'm inclined to accept the Weed And Seed grant. Should a community turn down a PAL (Police Athletic League) center as a broader statement against policing practices?? What good would that achieve? It only equates to one less opportunity for youth to better themselves in mind and body. I'd rather see these kids in our shop in a supportive environment, learning mechanical skills, which so many of them lack, and coming away with a greater sense of mobility and pride in their own accomplishment.
We differ from many of the groups represented here in that we have no moral agenda to proselytize. We're not gonna turn people into vegans as much as we're gonna turn "average person in america" into a 20-mile round trip to work everyday bike commuter. We try to start small and create an environment that everyone can feel comfortable in (not just people who think like us or live like us). I personally admit to wearing spandex on rides of 10 or more miles, I eat meat, I usually vote Democrat (sometimes Republican), I admit to riding and racing a bike that could be (or was a few years ago) valued at over $1,000..a number that was scoffed at with disdain on a recent post. Would I be welcome in your shop to wrench alongside fixies, cuffed pants and helmet-less riders?
We try to do the right thing but we are about bikes first. Don't get me wrong, we're not accepting money from Valero as they truly are a horrible company with things to hide/cover up but when you're talking about money that is available for use to help kids in our city with nothing else I'm inclined to take it and turn it into something positive.
Macho/Andrew/Others....would you like to continue this discussion elsewhere? We could set up a forum or at least a private list so we won't be filling up inboxes across the country(ies). Or if this an interest of the list as a whole I'm all for it.
I know I'm very opinionated...If there is one thing we can agree on it's that most of us here are, thank you again, Brian
On Dec 17, 2007 11:46 AM, Macho Philipovich < macho@resist.ca mailto:macho@resist.ca> wrote:
I'm sorry if the way I'm talking about this is unclear. I'll try to explain better. It's similar to the idea of "greenwashing" in the environmental movement. Big industrial polluters will throw token grants at progressive environmental initiatives to give themselves a nice clean image and to deflect criticism of their broader business practices, so that they can continue as usual, only more smoothly. I'd look at "weed and seed" in the same way, though that particular program doesn't exist in Canada. In what are considered "bad" neighbourhoods, which usually means ones with lots of people who have found themselves at the wrong end of systemic racism, economic exploitation, etc., the police's main role (through things like "weeding") is to keep those folks pacified, marginalized, and out of sight. When the police then get accused of racial profiling, using "excessive" violence, or other misconduct (as they do all the time in Canada, and I can't imagine it's much different in the U.S.), they can then turn around say "No, you have it all wrong! We care about the community. Look how we're giving bikes to underprivileged kids." In that way the bike shop is complicit in the broader process of neighbourhood social cleansing, usually called gentrification. I hope that explanation works better. Let me know. macho http://bike-dump.ca Urban Bike Project of Wilmington, Inc. wrote: > "presumably this project will be part of the "seeding" side of things. > one thing i would look into is what is done on the "weeding" side." > "legitimizing this kind of police action" > > Macho, I'd like to hear more about this, not sure what kind of police > action would be legitimized by our accepting 3,500 and using it to > help at-risk kids. He's a police officer who patrols presumably bad > neighborhoods already and would like to give kids another option in > addition to PAL or Boy's/Girl's Club centers. I am try to see all > sides of the picture. > > Andrew, 3,500 doesn't seem like much but consider that all the bikes > are donated and many are in perfect shape to begin with. I am still > concerned but I spoke with David Hoffman of Free Ride/Bike PGH the > other day and he took me through how we can still manage it. > > We project the approximate cost of giving one kid a bike. This would > be calculated in terms of amount of shop time (electric, rent), amount > of staff time (we may pay a stipend to a coordinator), and, on > average, dollar amount of parts needed. Using that number we will set > a maximum amount of participants in a given time frame (month/week > whatever), adjusting for more volume in the summer, less in the cold > months. That way we don't find ourselves in the unfortunate situation > of having to scramble to raise funds, draining our savings or risking > cancellation of the program. > > We are meeting with him (his name is Brian too, it's wierd) tomorrow > to come up with concrete plan and make everything less vague. > > Sincere thanks to both you guys for weighing in, > > Brian Windle > UBP > > > > > On Dec 15, 2007 5:44 PM, Andrew Bushaw < plan_9@riseup.net <mailto:plan_9@riseup.net> > <mailto:plan_9@riseup.net <mailto:plan_9@riseup.net>>> wrote: > > In addition to what macho brought up, what happens when the police > money > for the program dries up and you can't afford to fund it anymore? > If you > keep it, you are doing the police a service without compensation, > and if > you end the program, people will point the finger at your shop for > pulling the program rather than the funding source. 3,500 seems like a > pretty meager amount of funding for what they want, especially since > what they want seems pretty vaguely defined. > Andrew > FM Community Bicycle Workshop > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> > <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org>> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org > > > > > -- > Urban Bike Project of Wilmington > 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) > Wilmington, DE 19801 > > Phone - 302-654-5304 > Visit online at http://urbanbikeproject.org > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org > _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org-- Urban Bike Project of Wilmington 1908 N. Market Street (entrance is in the parking lot behind the building) Wilmington, DE 19801
Phone - 302-654-5304 Visit online at http://urbanbikeproject.org
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