Re: [TheThinkTank] No suggested donation

13 Apr 2012 · *more*

      We did the same, "donate what you feel it is worth to you," thing in Utah.
 Based on a local restaurant called One World Cafe (
http://www.oneworldeverybodyeatsfoundation.org/).
At least for awhile...
At the time my observation was that it felt like we were getting more cash
donations than we would have setting a price, this feeling was shared and
largely fueled by anecdotal references of amazing cash donations by
grateful people for things we would have otherwise given away for free.
 But at that point we had no point of reference to determine if this was
an anecdotal observation or something we could prove in numbers.
Accountability....
After looking into the cost of developing a Point of Sale, we determined
that while writing software was cheap it was FAR cheaper to pay someone
else to maintain it and so we invested in Quickbooks Point of Sale.  At
that point we gave up "recommended donations" and started setting actual
prices for parts.  For example a derailleur in the parts bin is $5, nicer
ones are individually priced in a glass case.  If someone couldn't pay you
can volunteer and log your hours on our volunteer tracking system (
http://volunteer.bicyclecollective.org) to trade out as a credit later.
 Simple.  Consistent.  No dickering.  Easier on volunteers.
What happened?
Our shop income nearly doubled, and we were able to hire more staff to help
more people.  As a result the number of bikes we were able to give away
more than doubled.  Best yet, instead of word smithing suggested donation
language, we were able to honestly say "NO" to the IRS when they asked,
"did anyone receive anything in return for what you listed as cash
donations?"    Which means our Cash Donation line item became became pure,
and thanks to that separation we were finally were able to determine if our
shop was profitable or not.  For the record, we still get a good amount of
cash donations on top of "part sales."
Would we go back to "donate what you feel it is worth to you?"
No.  Having been there done that, it is an excellent stop-gap for
collecting funds until a organization has the infrastructure to do it in a
more common and expected way.  But now that we saw the incredible increase
in providing the public with set prices -- it would be hard to think of
going back.
Food not Bikes
Going back to the One World Cafe example, everytime I eat there the food is
AMAZING, and if I have $20 in my pocket, they get $20, even if I could have
received the same quality for $12 elsewhere.  But then I don't tend to eat
at One World often because I tell myself it is expensive.  Instead I
frequent other local owned places with inexpensive set prices.  Personally
I feel like the "donate what you feel it is worth to you?" feeds on an
honest person's guilt, and while I LOVE the concept, One World Cafe leaves
me uncomfortable and questioning whether I put too little in for hours.
 While it is good to problem to have to think about the value of my food,
and I [again] love the food there and the concept, I question whether it is
sustainable.  My suspect of One World Cafe is that it would fail miserably
if it was next to the homeless shelter instead of being adjacent to
a wealthier part of town (avenues) and next door to the Utah College of
Massage Therapy.  So proximity to lots do-gooders with money is critical.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison
Executive Director
Bicycle Collective
2312 S. West Temple
Salt Lake City, UT 84115
w: 801-328-2453
c: 801-688-0183
f: 801-466-3856
www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective
and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner,
healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles
and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower
income households.
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 9:51 AM, ryan jenkins ryan.t.jenkins@gmail.comwrote:
...
We function this way at troy bike rescue, and it is our main source of
income really.  There are more of us on this list so maybe they will chime
in also.
TBR focuses on this not as a means of hoping to produce more money, but
to separate itself from the current capitalistic paradigm while also
keeping the lights on. We also serve a very wide variety of people, and I
have found the best thing to do is to build relationships with every
customer you can.  We aren't just fixing bikes, we are setting an example
of a potentially gas free and community supported future.  We are trying to
empower people to understand their means of transportation.  Nobody should
feel alienated, by gender/orientation/income/whatever the hell else.  This
includes people feeling alienated or abandoned because this system has
forced them out of the capitalist system or for whatever reason they are
not able to provide paper money for our servies.  They are more than
welcome to volunteer as payment, but the idea of "payment" just makes me
feel icky.
To get back to my point, every time this topic comes up with a patron I
try to express this idea to them, make eye contact, and really talk to
somehow.  Thats why I am there.  I am there for that more than I am there
for getting my hands dirty, ya know what I mean? If people cant pay,
actually cannot afford the 5 $, why would i ever want to deny them the
right to ride their bicycle?
This can get tricky though, especially with children.  How do you develop
an understanding of respect and "worth" to the work that you do in a
capitalist society, while not subscribing to that paradigm.  When worth of
a skill or favor is based off of an hourly rate, how do we instill respect
for what we are doing while also letting people get work done for free? For
instance, we started charging a quarter as a minimum for getting a tire
patched.  Our doors were FLOODED with kids every single time we were open
trying to get tires patched.  There was no respect for what we were doing
as a group, we were just a free service to them.  Was this the best way to
do it? I don't know, its a hard topic.  But thats what collectives and
shops like all of ours are here to do right, test out how things could work
in a better world.
just my .02 cents.
ryan
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Paul Nagel paul@thebicycletree.orgwrote:
...
At our volunteer meeting last night, someone shared an anecdote where a
group offering to pump up people's bike tires raised far more money when
they asked only that people pay what they thought the service was worth,
rather than asking for $1 per pumping (this was something he heard in a
business class of some sort). This volunteer went on to suggest we not post
our current $5 suggested donation per hour for DIY repair, but rather use
language along the lines of "donate what you think the service is worth".
This is in a context where, even on a busier day, with about 12 visitors,
we usually receive less than $60, even though many of those people will
stay for two hours or more. Also, being *more* firm about payment is not
of interest to us.
As with most of you, we serve a wide variety of people. I can see "donate
what you think the service is worth" being fine for people of even modest
income, but I'm concerned about how that concept can be communicated
without causing bad feelings in people who *can't* pay what they think
the service is worth.
In the past, when we were just getting started, we advertised our
services as being "free", but accepted donations. That is somewhat
different from the idea presented here, as "free" implies people need
not/ought not to pay.
Does anyone here have experience with having no suggested donation? If
so, have you utilized both methods in a similar context, and how did the
income compare? Also, how did you word your pricing policy?
Thank you,
Paul

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