i would like to stack on here. to say that the people on bike talk are helping the bicycle community communicate and giving voice to the air what we do as bicycle advocates Bike Talk is our outreach tool, call in and join.
i do not belive This Joshua to be anyone other than the Andrea who has started this unnessary time wasting and unproductive blaming exercise!
i would like to propose that both Andrea and Joshua apologize for insulting and making general attacks on the rest of this community. Also it would be good to hear from any other persons who have been to the Recyclery. Just to verify that it exists. There web site is lacking the pictures of people and other details that make me comfortable excepting that they actually do anything!
jim
From: Andy Dyson andy@neighborhoodbikeworks.org To: info@bikecityrecyclery.org; The Think Tank thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 3:50:16 PM Subject: [TheThinkTank] Purpose of this list?
Joshua, your e-mail had a lot of points, including that you'd like to beat people up who don't agree with you, that you think calling people names is the best way to persuade people to your point of view. I'm actually of your point of view regarding most of this (baffled as I am by what you seem to consider successfully interacting with your peers), so forgive me (if that's part of making things better in anyone's universe at this point) for replying to just one of your points.
Why is it bad for those to ask people to contribute to their radio show? Did they say that women can't contribute or something, or do they say that and then turn them away or something? I think their show would be improved by any of us contributing, but even if you disagree, how are they "mining" the list? Mining implies that you take something away, a non-renewable resource. But being asked to contribute takes nothing from me, and I am puzzled that you think it takes something from you, Joshua. I like the idea of bike coops taking advantage of any and all media in order to promote bicycling. The list is here for people to share resources, isn't it? Perhaps it has another mission I'm not aware of. It's all about collaboration from my point of view. I know this has worked for NBW and Bike Church in Philly. I know I said I'd only address one point, but I can't resist it... I think guys with pony tails are hot, but I probably think your haircut is OK too.
Andy
Bike City wrote:
Greetings all butt-hurt dudes,
I'm a man working on a bike project in Arkansas. I know better than all of you who don't live here how sexist the South is, in general and in bicycles specifically. I haven't seen any behavior on your part that leads me to believe that you guys are any different. You are all part of the problem. I read the beginning of this thread and all I saw was a person pissed off at bike talk emails on this list. I think bike talk should get their own list and stop mining this one. They aren't a bicycle project. They just talk about how cool bicycles are. Big deal. I have read elsewhere on this thread where men have taken posts to this list personally. I never saw anyone mentioned by name, so why are you all so butt-hurt and defensive? Furthermore, why shouldn't we discuss our privilege as males in life and in bicycles? If all of the books on bicycle history are going to link bicycles with dress reform and women's liberation then why shouldn't we discuss male privilege and female oppression, as it exists in the bicycle industry today? Why is this topic off the table for discussion? I don't have the economic privilege to go to BikeBike once a year to spend an hour or two discussing the real problems with our male dominated bike culture and then pat our male selves on the back for being so progressive. This list is the only forum where I can discuss this. Or, to be correct, where I can try to discuss this.
What's your hang-up? Why does any attempt to discuss sexism on this list turn into a woman bashing free-for-all and all of the guilty men claim to be "good guys."
I'll confess that I'm writing to see if I, a dick-swinging man will get shouted down by the other men on this list. Or even...kicked off the list. Oh no! I remember the last purge on this list when sexism was discussed. The male moderator who I'm sure is one of the "good guys" and above all reproach, kicked off his list anyone that disagreed with the de facto ethic that a woman's place is to shut up and get fucked. I'm sure you're one of the good guys, dude. You probably fit the archetype of the "good guy." Chaco sandals, pony-tail, Subaru with some witty bumper stickers, white skin, pink penis, organic diet; and I know that your heart bleeds for the less privileged. Its easy to feel pity for those "less privileged" people when you don't have to confront your own privilege at the same time. Truth is, I don't give a fuck if the only moderator is a male and he quashes any discussion of sexism on this list. I don't care if he kicks us off the list. Fuck him. I don't care because I know that all you guys are doing is making it clear to women and their allies that you are not people we can trust or work with. If you're ever in Arkansas look me up, Moderator. I'll be the rabble-rouser with the wrench in his hand. If you feel tough enough, we can tussle. Yee-haw,Joshua
-- Andrew C. Dyson Executive Director Neighborhood Bike Works Increasing opportunities for youth through bicycling
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