My background is in software engineering as is my degree. I actually installed Wordpress (http://wordpress.bikecollectives.org/), Joomla ( http://joomla.bikecollectives.org/), Drupal ( http://drupal.bikecollectives.org/) recently to compare them. Here is my honest opinion of each of them and their user groups. I take into account sustainability factors like, "sure I am a nerd, but if I wasn't here, could someone else cover it?"

Wordpress was by far the easiest to install and get running, however it lacks components and features to _easily_ do anything more than a blog. For example if you want to add a photo gallery, etc.,... One of my main observations is the user group that uses this is more graphic designers, not programmers. Another plus is that you, as a nonprofit, can get free hosting using Dreamhost, and they have a simple one-click-install for Wordpress. This makes upgrades really easy.

Drupal was by far the most difficult to install, however it is very universal. With flexibility comes complexity, so make sure you have a hard core nerd on staff before you commit to this one. I would for the Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective, but in the event I wasn't around, I can't see it being maintained properly. The user group for this tends to be people like me, geeks. As a result, the graphical templates aren't as impressive as other CMSs. One cool feature that http://bikegeeks.org/ used is they made all the Chicago sites connect. One unique feature of Drupal is that a single installation of Drupal can run several sites. Sadly, Dreamhost does not support drupal, so installations are all on your own.

Joomla, while I have spent the most time with it is still my personal favorite. It has the largest user base, and more addons and templates than any other CMS out there. To be fair, the big downfall isn't in technical complexity, but what how things are named. There are 1000s of templates, components, modules, mambots out there, but you need to know what they are before you can use them. Another plus is that you, as a nonprofit, can get free hosting using Dreamhost, and they have a simple one-click-install for Joomla. This makes upgrades really easy.

http://www.bikecollectives.org/wiki/index.php?title=Creating_a_Website#Conte...

Folks might also be interested in checking out the crabgrass groupware project being developed by riseup.net https://we.riseup.net/crabgrass/about

On 10/10/07, andrew L. anyone@breathingplanet.net wrote:

I am on this list and have some drupal experience if people end up going with that option and need specific help... anyone_at_breathingplanet.net for the revamp of troybikerescue.org, we are going to try out joomla. for making a good editor in drupal (non-html), try the TinyMCE module. its kind of a pain in the ass install but well documented in the readme files that come with it. when installing new modules, always read the readme files.

ovr&out andrew L. troy bike rescue troy new york

Bikes Not Bombs wrote:

...

We've just moved the Bikes Not Bombs website to Drupal. I think it is the best free CMS option out there. (There's also Joomla which may be a little easier to figure out, with fewer features.) Drupal is definitely hard to figure out at first ... especially to set up just a regular old public website, since at its core it seems much more geared to doing collaborative community websites with blogs/ forums etc. We haven't yet, but will, set up the kinds of things you are talking about with volunteer login, different tiers of login and access, wiki, etc. But I know that Drupal is one of the best tools out there for doing this. For the public side of your site, you won't exactly get a wiki-like interface or wysiwyg editing, tho there may be tools that can help with that. David Mercer's book is a useful resource.

I can answer basic questions, but I had some tech volunteers really do the nuts and bolts, and they aren't on this listserve. So if you want info email me directly at arik@bikesnotbombs.org ... I may have to pass on some of your questions to my tech pros.

-Arik

On Oct 10, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Andrew Bushaw wrote:

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We have been using pbwiki.com (a free wiki, one login) for our organizing but are starting to feel the need for a tiered access control as well as for an actual website to send the public to. We have been contemplating getting a content management system such as "drupal" to serve both functions. I think the SLBC uses a similar CMS for their website and maybe others do to. How well does it work? Do regular folks have a difficult time using it? our ideal: public web page w/ donation links, a login page with a volunteer only section, then a section for core members only where we would keep fundraising info. Would like it to be easy to edit, with a wiki-like interface, preferably wysiwyg editors. Thanks, Andrew

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andrew lynn | media worker | 518-573-7947

troy new york | http://www.breathingplanet.net _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...

just to go ahead and state my position, i agree with jonathan. he laid it out just as i would. in my capacity as a web development consultant for non-profits, i would never set up a drupal site and walk away (unless it was a non-profit of drupal developers). joomla is by far the choice if the end user(s) are not into hacking code.

if you don't want to do much, wordpress is awesome. wordpress is the first thing that has actually made me think PHP was worthwhile.

My dislike of PHP is why the Sopo site is running on a CMS that i'm developing in Perl. I'm almost ready to open up the code for anyone to use. if you're good with AJAX feel free to volunteer to help out with me finishing up.

On 10/11/07, Simon Z youractionsdefineyou@gmail.com wrote:

I have to recommend drupal too.

PROS: Aside from ease of use, it is free and all its modules are free and it is widely used in the non-profit / radical community which makes cross-networking very easy.

CONS: you need to know some php or css to create a site that looks really different from the basic formats / themes.

Simon

Andrew Bushaw wrote:

...

We have been using pbwiki.com (a free wiki, one login) for our organizing but are starting to feel the need for a tiered access control as well as for an actual website to send the public to. We have been contemplating getting a content management system such as "drupal" to serve both functions. I think the SLBC uses a similar CMS for their website and maybe others do to. How well does it work? Do regular folks have a difficult time using it? our ideal: public web page w/ donation links, a login page with a volunteer only section, then a section for core members only where we would keep fundraising info. Would like it to be easy to edit, with a wiki-like interface, preferably wysiwyg editors. Thanks, Andrew

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They are all free and written with a stick-it-to-the-man open source attitude, so I don't think that is deciding factor. However, people have written commercial addons for all of them too, but fear not there always seems to be a free alternative to.

BTW, Don't get me wrong, since I started using Drupal, I love it -- it appeals to my hardcore inner nerd. The hacker side of me gets to do things I know others won't know how to do. Then again, that isn't a quality I try to acknowledge, I like technology to be inclusive, not exclusive -- just like bikes.