Hey Spokes Folks,
It's Jim C. here, and I'm writing to invite, no, to convince you to be heard
- and not just by the online Bike Talk group this week. This coming
Tuesday, December 29th, Bike Talk will get its first live broadcast show on KPFK, 90.7 FM from 11PM til midnight Pacific Time - you can check them out here http://www.kpfk.org/.
Who listens to the radio these days? Well, you might be surprised. KPFK is a groundbreaking Pacifica station that broadcasts many great shows including my personal favorite, 'Democracy Now!' - herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPFKis a link to the KPFK wikipedia page. KPFK is considered a progressive radio station that leans a little farther left than other media stations.
OK, so now you know the setup. How can you help? We'll be talking about most things bike, starting with a brief synopsis of bike-friendliness in cities by author Jeff Mapes (Pedaling Revolutionhttp://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=0870714198&PID=33501), and followed by a short critique of bike-friendliness in LA and what the city is doing to address cyclists' issues with its proposed Bicycle Master Plan. This is where we need you to call in - (818) 985-5735.
What would you like to see improved in our city? Most of the listeners of this show will probably be driving in their automobiles. We want to bridge the gap between drivers and cyclists, so let's talk about what we want to see, not what we battle. We should save the fight for the next show - our focus with this show is to celebrate the bicycle and how it improves the quality of our lives. So call in and address the Bicycle Master Plan - (818) 985-5735, and tell us your ideas for improving cycling in our city.
We'll be following up these segments with some bicycle culture, a year-end review from Streetsblog http://la.streetsblog.org/'s Damien Newton, calendar and news, and hopefully, some bicycle back story combined with clips from our interview with Richard Schwinn.
We can't wait to hear from YOU!
-Jim C Bike Talk! http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/index.php?shokey=biketalk and Orange 20 Bikes http://orange20bikes.com
Four dudes talking about a male-dominated topic. Totally progressive, dude.
I've let you know at least twice now that we do not want to be on this list. Bike Talk is not the same as the Think Tank. I'm sure anyone interested in these updates would be willing to join a seperate list. Until then, your last paragraph is either a joke or a lie and your emails are unsolicited.
Andrea
On 12/25/09, bike talk livebiketalk@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Spokes Folks,
It's Jim C. here, and I'm writing to invite, no, to convince you to be heard
- and not just by the online Bike Talk group this week. This coming
Tuesday, December 29th, Bike Talk will get its first live broadcast show on KPFK, 90.7 FM from 11PM til midnight Pacific Time - you can check them out here http://www.kpfk.org/.
Who listens to the radio these days? Well, you might be surprised. KPFK is a groundbreaking Pacifica station that broadcasts many great shows including my personal favorite, 'Democracy Now!' - herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPFKis a link to the KPFK wikipedia page. KPFK is considered a progressive radio station that leans a little farther left than other media stations.
OK, so now you know the setup. How can you help? We'll be talking about most things bike, starting with a brief synopsis of bike-friendliness in cities by author Jeff Mapes (Pedaling Revolutionhttp://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=0870714198&PID=33501), and followed by a short critique of bike-friendliness in LA and what the city is doing to address cyclists' issues with its proposed Bicycle Master Plan. This is where we need you to call in - (818) 985-5735.
What would you like to see improved in our city? Most of the listeners of this show will probably be driving in their automobiles. We want to bridge the gap between drivers and cyclists, so let's talk about what we want to see, not what we battle. We should save the fight for the next show - our focus with this show is to celebrate the bicycle and how it improves the quality of our lives. So call in and address the Bicycle Master Plan - (818) 985-5735, and tell us your ideas for improving cycling in our city.
We'll be following up these segments with some bicycle culture, a year-end review from Streetsblog http://la.streetsblog.org/'s Damien Newton, calendar and news, and hopefully, some bicycle back story combined with clips from our interview with Richard Schwinn.
We can't wait to hear from YOU!
-Jim C Bike Talk! http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/index.php?shokey=biketalk and Orange 20 Bikes http://orange20bikes.com
-- please let us know if you want to be taken off this list. Hear Bike Talk! live on www.killradio.org, 10am-noon Saturdays. Call in at (213) 252-0998. Hear the podcast at kpfk.org: http://www.kpfk.org/programs/170-bike-talk.html See what's new with us at www.biketalk.us Follow us at bike_talk_kpfk on twitter.com
I took us off the list, but I guess I responded to a think tank email and went back on. I don't know where your hostility came from, unless it's generalized, which seems to be the case. I'll let you enjoy it on your own. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Bike City bikecityrecyclery@gmail.com Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:35:59 To: The Think Tankthethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Fwd: We want your opinion - on live radio...
Four dudes talking about a male-dominated topic. Totally progressive, dude.
I've let you know at least twice now that we do not want to be on this list. Bike Talk is not the same as the Think Tank. I'm sure anyone interested in these updates would be willing to join a seperate list. Until then, your last paragraph is either a joke or a lie and your emails are unsolicited.
Andrea
On 12/25/09, bike talk livebiketalk@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Spokes Folks,
It's Jim C. here, and I'm writing to invite, no, to convince you to be heard
- and not just by the online Bike Talk group this week. This coming
Tuesday, December 29th, Bike Talk will get its first live broadcast show on KPFK, 90.7 FM from 11PM til midnight Pacific Time - you can check them out here http://www.kpfk.org/.
Who listens to the radio these days? Well, you might be surprised. KPFK is a groundbreaking Pacifica station that broadcasts many great shows including my personal favorite, 'Democracy Now!' - herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPFKis a link to the KPFK wikipedia page. KPFK is considered a progressive radio station that leans a little farther left than other media stations.
OK, so now you know the setup. How can you help? We'll be talking about most things bike, starting with a brief synopsis of bike-friendliness in cities by author Jeff Mapes (Pedaling Revolutionhttp://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=0870714198&PID=33501), and followed by a short critique of bike-friendliness in LA and what the city is doing to address cyclists' issues with its proposed Bicycle Master Plan. This is where we need you to call in - (818) 985-5735.
What would you like to see improved in our city? Most of the listeners of this show will probably be driving in their automobiles. We want to bridge the gap between drivers and cyclists, so let's talk about what we want to see, not what we battle. We should save the fight for the next show - our focus with this show is to celebrate the bicycle and how it improves the quality of our lives. So call in and address the Bicycle Master Plan - (818) 985-5735, and tell us your ideas for improving cycling in our city.
We'll be following up these segments with some bicycle culture, a year-end review from Streetsblog http://la.streetsblog.org/'s Damien Newton, calendar and news, and hopefully, some bicycle back story combined with clips from our interview with Richard Schwinn.
We can't wait to hear from YOU!
-Jim C Bike Talk! http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/index.php?shokey=biketalk and Orange 20 Bikes http://orange20bikes.com
-- please let us know if you want to be taken off this list. Hear Bike Talk! live on www.killradio.org, 10am-noon Saturdays. Call in at (213) 252-0998. Hear the podcast at kpfk.org: http://www.kpfk.org/programs/170-bike-talk.html See what's new with us at www.biketalk.us Follow us at bike_talk_kpfk on twitter.com
Is it really productive to be so gender-centric... I'm a woman bike
mechanic who considers myself a human being first, and a woman second.
Can we try to focus on the Big Picture, please?
the Powers that Be just LOVE identity politics, it keeps the liberals
squabbling against each other, rather than pushing forward towards a
common goal.
We Do have one, right?
Wendy Monroe De Fiets Fee Amsterdam
On 27 Dec 2009, at 05:35, Bike City wrote:
Four dudes talking about a male-dominated topic. Totally
progressive, dude.I've let you know at least twice now that we do not want to be on this list. Bike Talk is not the same as the Think Tank. I'm sure anyone interested in these updates would be willing to join a seperate list. Until then, your last paragraph is either a joke or a lie and your emails are unsolicited.
Andrea
On 12/25/09, bike talk livebiketalk@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Spokes Folks,
It's Jim C. here, and I'm writing to invite, no, to convince you to
be heard
- and not just by the online Bike Talk group this week. This coming
Tuesday, December 29th, Bike Talk will get its first live broadcast
show on KPFK, 90.7 FM from 11PM til midnight Pacific Time - you can check
them out here http://www.kpfk.org/.Who listens to the radio these days? Well, you might be
surprised. KPFK is a groundbreaking Pacifica station that broadcasts many great shows
including my personal favorite, 'Democracy Now!' - herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPFKis a link to the KPFK
wikipedia page. KPFK is considered a progressive radio station that leans a little farther left than other media
stations.OK, so now you know the setup. How can you help? We'll be talking
about most things bike, starting with a brief synopsis of bike- friendliness in cities by author Jeff Mapes (Pedaling Revolutionhttp://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=0870714198&PID=33501), and followed by a short critique of bike-friendliness in LA and
what the city is doing to address cyclists' issues with its proposed Bicycle
Master Plan. This is where we need you to call in - (818) 985-5735.What would you like to see improved in our city? Most of the
listeners of this show will probably be driving in their automobiles. We want
to bridge the gap between drivers and cyclists, so let's talk about what we
want to see, not what we battle. We should save the fight for the next
show - our focus with this show is to celebrate the bicycle and how it
improves the quality of our lives. So call in and address the Bicycle Master
Plan - (818) 985-5735, and tell us your ideas for improving cycling in our
city.We'll be following up these segments with some bicycle culture, a
year-end review from Streetsblog http://la.streetsblog.org/'s Damien Newton, calendar and news, and hopefully, some bicycle back story combined
with clips from our interview with Richard Schwinn.We can't wait to hear from YOU!
-Jim C Bike Talk! <http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/index.php?shokey=biketalk
and Orange 20 Bikes http://orange20bikes.com
-- please let us know if you want to be taken off this list. Hear Bike
Talk! live on www.killradio.org, 10am-noon Saturdays. Call in at (213)
252-0998. Hear the podcast at kpfk.org: http://www.kpfk.org/programs/170-bike-talk.html See what's new with
us at www.biketalk.us Follow us at bike_talk_kpfk on twitter.com-- Bike City Recyclery Fayetteville, Arkansas http://www.bikecityrecyclery.org/ _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Hm. I'm not a liberal, so "squabbling against each other" won't be a problem.
The fact that the bicycle and transportation industry is almost entirely controlled by males is gender-centric -- nevermind the rest of society. You could also call it patriarchal, misogynist, sexist, etc. Is it productive to be satisfied with inequality? Is it productive to be ladylike, passive, and catch flies with honey? Depends on your survival strategy and your goals. There are rewards for cooperation, and punishments for rebellion.
I am a bike mechanic. I am not a woman bike mechanic. Men do not call themselves "man bike mechanics." I consider myself a human being. Period. I consider you a human being. Period. We share a lot of experiences, whether we want to or not, because this culture says we're both women. I'm sure we interpret and react to even our shared experiences differently -- because we're individual human beings, not just some monolithic woman-culture.
As for a common goal -- we may not directly share one, no. I got into bicycles for a slew of social reasons. When humans drive cars, they become ugly monsters with no respect for animal, vegetable, or mineral life and a warped perception of time, distance, temperature, and priorities. Humans personify their cars, but don't notice slaughtering squirrels or recognize that the gunk on their windshield contains legs and wings because it was ALIVE. Literal psychopaths. Women are not generally regarded as full-fledged human beings, either. I really don't think I need to cite any examples.
Cars are an expensive vice and the poorest people in the world are women. In the US in 2008, the entire transportation industry was completely male-dominated ("nontraditional occupations") -- females make up a whopping 1.6% of car mechanics. There are fewer than 50,000 bike mechanics in this country, so in leiu of fancy government statistics, I have to assume from personal experience that women aren't doing signifigantly better in the bicycle industry. This bias did not create itself -- it is not an accident, not a coincidence. And the problem will not go away on its own. Problems rarely do, and to my knowledge oppression never ever has.
Sexism is not some cataclysmic one-time event. It's an incessant bombardment of the same message. That can be untested rape kits. That can be laughing at a misogynist stereotype because it's 'just a joke'. That can be running women out of the bicycle industry, and then saying that women are too weak or just not interested. Here is an article saying it much better than I can. http://joy-mari.com/2009/12/22/what-is-real-racism/
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.
If bikes follow the pattern of cars, everybody loses. All genders lose. I'm not willing to go down without a fight and I hope to see as many of you as possible in the trenches. And some day, maybe, bicycles really will be accessible to everyone.
All the best,
Andrea "too tired to proofread this drivel at 5am" McCann
Andrea, for Christ's sake! Why don't you harness the energy of all
that anger to win people over to your point of view.. rather than
drawing your line in the sand?
Here in Holland, things are different than in the U.S. Native Dutch
women order their men around, to a large extent. And the Moroccan
immigrant women, appear to be oppressed... by American standards.. As
a non-Arabic speaking person, I do wonder about this.
I've been giving bike repair classes to teenage Muslim Moroccan
immigrant boys, to serve as a positive example of a woman who is
competent with tools...
in contrast to whatever cultural norms they may have learned from
their families...
In some cases, I can tell it is a real cognitive dissonance for them.
I have heard them saying to each other in Dutch... ( what the Hell?!
she is fixing my bike better than the guys can!)
That's not what I'm there for, to show them that. I'm there because
they will have better lives, if they learn how to use tools, and it's
satisfying to give them a hand. Maybe they'll learn how to make
money with this useful skill, and thereby be able to avoid the
fallback of military service... I hope so.
I can't be sure, how much headway I am making towards broadening their
perspectives, in terms of gender politics..
Maybe they'll grow up to be nicer and less dogmatic people, I hope
so. One still sees Muslim women at our local shopping mall wearing
Burkas, so I know there is a conflict of cultural values in this
community. One of my best friends wears a head scarf, and I'm still
not sure, why she finds that necessary.
The main thing is, I think I can make a lot more progress towards a
more actualized community by connecting with these Muslim kids in a
friendly way.. than I would if I were angry at them, demanding that
they change their attitudes towards women.
I'm from the U.S., and can relate to where you are coming from,
Andrea. I have worked with some of those white guys. some are
completely incorrigible, I will grant you that...
But, isn't the bottom line here, that we are all trying to make the
world a better place.. from our bikish perspective? I think of bikes
as a sort of Granfalloon, that holds us bike think tank people
together.. as we try to make our contributions toward a better world..
Am I on my own, thinking this?
I don't have enough information to say, whether participating in Bike
Talk helps further that goal.. but, I would not assume that it doesn't.
Why burn bridges, when you might want to cross them, later?
Happy upcoming New Year, everyone!
Wendy Monroe Amsterdam Noord
On 27 Dec 2009, at 11:38, Bike City wrote:
Hm. I'm not a liberal, so "squabbling against each other" won't be a
problem.The fact that the bicycle and transportation industry is almost entirely controlled by males is gender-centric -- nevermind the rest of society. You could also call it patriarchal, misogynist, sexist, etc. Is it productive to be satisfied with inequality? Is it productive to be ladylike, passive, and catch flies with honey? Depends on your survival strategy and your goals. There are rewards for cooperation, and punishments for rebellion.
I am a bike mechanic. I am not a woman bike mechanic. Men do not call themselves "man bike mechanics." I consider myself a human being. Period. I consider you a human being. Period. We share a lot of experiences, whether we want to or not, because this culture says we're both women. I'm sure we interpret and react to even our shared experiences differently -- because we're individual human beings, not just some monolithic woman-culture.
As for a common goal -- we may not directly share one, no. I got into bicycles for a slew of social reasons. When humans drive cars, they become ugly monsters with no respect for animal, vegetable, or mineral life and a warped perception of time, distance, temperature, and priorities. Humans personify their cars, but don't notice slaughtering squirrels or recognize that the gunk on their windshield contains legs and wings because it was ALIVE. Literal psychopaths. Women are not generally regarded as full-fledged human beings, either. I really don't think I need to cite any examples.
Cars are an expensive vice and the poorest people in the world are women. In the US in 2008, the entire transportation industry was completely male-dominated ("nontraditional occupations") -- females make up a whopping 1.6% of car mechanics. There are fewer than 50,000 bike mechanics in this country, so in leiu of fancy government statistics, I have to assume from personal experience that women aren't doing signifigantly better in the bicycle industry. This bias did not create itself -- it is not an accident, not a coincidence. And the problem will not go away on its own. Problems rarely do, and to my knowledge oppression never ever has.
Sexism is not some cataclysmic one-time event. It's an incessant bombardment of the same message. That can be untested rape kits. That can be laughing at a misogynist stereotype because it's 'just a joke'. That can be running women out of the bicycle industry, and then saying that women are too weak or just not interested. Here is an article saying it much better than I can. http://joy-mari.com/2009/12/22/what-is-real-racism/
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.
If bikes follow the pattern of cars, everybody loses. All genders lose. I'm not willing to go down without a fight and I hope to see as many of you as possible in the trenches. And some day, maybe, bicycles really will be accessible to everyone.
All the best,
Andrea "too tired to proofread this drivel at 5am" McCann
-- Bike City Recyclery Fayetteville, Arkansas http://www.bikecityrecyclery.org/
On 12/27/09, Wendy Monroe wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Is it really productive to be so gender-centric... I'm a woman bike mechanic who considers myself a human being first, and a woman
second. Can we try to focus on the Big Picture, please?the Powers that Be just LOVE identity politics, it keeps the liberals squabbling against each other, rather than pushing forward towards a common goal. We Do have one, right?
Wendy Monroe De Fiets Fee Amsterdam
On 27 Dec 2009, at 05:35, Bike City wrote:
Four dudes talking about a male-dominated topic. Totally progressive, dude.
I've let you know at least twice now that we do not want to be on
this list. Bike Talk is not the same as the Think Tank. I'm sure anyone interested in these updates would be willing to join a seperate
list. Until then, your last paragraph is either a joke or a lie and your emails are unsolicited.Andrea
On 12/25/09, bike talk livebiketalk@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Spokes Folks,
It's Jim C. here, and I'm writing to invite, no, to convince you to be heard
- and not just by the online Bike Talk group this week. This
coming Tuesday, December 29th, Bike Talk will get its first live broadcast show on KPFK, 90.7 FM from 11PM til midnight Pacific Time - you can check them out here http://www.kpfk.org/.
Who listens to the radio these days? Well, you might be surprised. KPFK is a groundbreaking Pacifica station that broadcasts many great shows including my personal favorite, 'Democracy Now!' - herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPFKis a link to the KPFK wikipedia page. KPFK is considered a progressive radio station that leans a little farther left than other media stations.
OK, so now you know the setup. How can you help? We'll be talking about most things bike, starting with a brief synopsis of bike- friendliness in cities by author Jeff Mapes (Pedaling Revolution<http://www.powells.com/biblio? isbn=0870714198&PID=33501>), and followed by a short critique of bike-friendliness in LA and what the city is doing to address cyclists' issues with its proposed Bicycle Master Plan. This is where we need you to call in - (818) 985-5735.
What would you like to see improved in our city? Most of the listeners of this show will probably be driving in their automobiles. We want to bridge the gap between drivers and cyclists, so let's talk about what we want to see, not what we battle. We should save the fight for the next show - our focus with this show is to celebrate the bicycle and how it improves the quality of our lives. So call in and address the Bicycle Master Plan - (818) 985-5735, and tell us your ideas for improving cycling in our city.
We'll be following up these segments with some bicycle culture, a year-end review from Streetsblog http://la.streetsblog.org/'s Damien
Newton, calendar and news, and hopefully, some bicycle back story combined with clips from our interview with Richard Schwinn.We can't wait to hear from YOU!
-Jim C Bike Talk! <http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/index.php?shokey=biketalk
and Orange 20 Bikes http://orange20bikes.com
-- please let us know if you want to be taken off this list. Hear Bike Talk! live on www.killradio.org, 10am-noon Saturdays. Call in at (213) 252-0998. Hear the podcast at kpfk.org: http://www.kpfk.org/programs/170-bike-talk.html See what's new with us at www.biketalk.us Follow us at bike_talk_kpfk on twitter.com
-- Bike City Recyclery Fayetteville, Arkansas http://www.bikecityrecyclery.org/ _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Bike City Recyclery Fayetteville, Arkansas http://www.bikecityrecyclery.org/ _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote:
(snip)
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.
You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this
broad a brush.
With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one
going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys
have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that way, and
at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully
being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared
to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store.
Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you
cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, the
bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I would
much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for-profit
one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of
shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for-
profit consume-all crap?
Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually are men
who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in their
lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there
were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can often
make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on
their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be done,
for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as
we try to fight the crap...
Mark
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote:
(snip)
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.
You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this broad a brush.
With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that way, and at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store.
Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, the bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I would much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for-profit one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- profit consume-all crap?
Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually are men who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in their lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can often make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be done, for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as we try to fight the crap...
Mark _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to
insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance
of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get
the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt
you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to offer.
Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote:
(snip)
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.
You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this broad a brush.
With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that way, and at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store.
Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, the bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I would much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for-profit one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- profit consume-all crap?
Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually are men who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in their lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can often make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be done, for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as we try to fight the crap...
Mark
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to offer.
Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote:
(snip)
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.
You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this broad a brush.
With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that way, and at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store.
Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, the bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I would much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for-profit one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- profit consume-all crap?
Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually are men who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in their lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can often make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be done, for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as we try to fight the crap...
Mark
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Yeah, I'm aware, believe me. You know nothing about me so stop
insisting on my ignorance. You've got enough irrational hate going
on (just as bad as what I hear some men say about women) that I can't
take you seriously.
My apologies to the list - this is my last post on this subject.
Mark
On 28-Dec-09, at 1:55 AM, Bike City wrote:
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to
offer.Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote:
(snip)
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in.
Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this broad a brush.
With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that
way, and at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store.Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes,
the bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I
would much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for- profit one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- profit consume-all crap?Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually
are men who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in
their lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can
often make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be
done, for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as we try to fight the crap...Mark
Ho hum, I see, you're aware. I'm a nagging, ignorant, uppity bitch. I'm so hysterical (OMG REVERSE SEXISM!) that you will just dismiss and ignore me.
Don't worry, almost all dudes get defensive in exactly the same way when their privilege is challenged. But the best part is you can better yourself if you try!
http://www.uh.edu/~cnathen/feminist.jpg
Andrea
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
Yeah, I'm aware, believe me. You know nothing about me so stop insisting on my ignorance. You've got enough irrational hate going on (just as bad as what I hear some men say about women) that I can't take you seriously.
My apologies to the list - this is my last post on this subject.
Mark
On 28-Dec-09, at 1:55 AM, Bike City wrote:
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to offer.
Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote:
(snip)
More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. Oppression is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em.
You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this broad a brush.
With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that way, and at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store.
Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, the bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I would much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for- profit one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- profit consume-all crap?
Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually are men who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in their lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can often make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be done, for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as we try to fight the crap...
Mark
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
To all involved,
This kind of bullshit makes this listserve suck. Please stop.
Love,
Non-gender specific Plan B
Bike City wrote:
Ho hum, I see, you're aware. I'm a nagging, ignorant, uppity bitch. I'm so hysterical (OMG REVERSE SEXISM!) that you will just dismiss and ignore me.
Don't worry, almost all dudes get defensive in exactly the same way when their privilege is challenged. But the best part is you can better yourself if you try!
http://www.uh.edu/~cnathen/feminist.jpg
Andrea
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
Yeah, I'm aware, believe me. You know nothing about me so stop insisting on my ignorance. You've got enough irrational hate going on (just as bad as what I hear some men say about women) that I can't take you seriously.
My apologies to the list - this is my last post on this subject.
Mark
On 28-Dec-09, at 1:55 AM, Bike City wrote:
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to offer.
Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote:
(snip)
> More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. > Oppression > is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing > asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a > thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let > anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em. >
You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this broad a brush.With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that way, and at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store.
Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, the bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I would much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for- profit one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- profit consume-all crap?
Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually are men who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in their lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can often make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be done, for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as we try to fight the crap...
Mark
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Yes indeed. Conversations are good. Have them. But please realize you can respond to just the peoples you are having the conversation with, by typing in their emails. Ahhh---the internet. Helpful for keeping down on the frustration. Cheers,
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM, N.O.Bike Project < nolabikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
To all involved,
This kind of bullshit makes this listserve suck. Please stop.
Love,
Non-gender specific Plan B
Bike City wrote:
Ho hum, I see, you're aware. I'm a nagging, ignorant, uppity bitch. I'm so hysterical (OMG REVERSE SEXISM!) that you will just dismiss and ignore me.
Don't worry, almost all dudes get defensive in exactly the same way when their privilege is challenged. But the best part is you can better yourself if you try!
http://www.uh.edu/~cnathen/feminist.jpghttp://www.uh.edu/%7Ecnathen/feminist.jpg
Andrea
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
Yeah, I'm aware, believe me. You know nothing about me so stop insisting on my ignorance. You've got enough irrational hate going on (just as bad as what I hear some men say about women) that I can't take you seriously.
My apologies to the list - this is my last post on this subject.
Mark
On 28-Dec-09, at 1:55 AM, Bike City wrote:
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to offer.
Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
> On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote: > > (snip) > > > >> More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. >> Oppression >> is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing >> asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a >> thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let >> anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em. >> >> > You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this > broad a brush. > > With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one > going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys > have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that > way, and > at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully > being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared > to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store. > > Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you > cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, > the > bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I > would > much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for- > profit > one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of > shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- > profit consume-all crap? > > Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually > are men > who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in > their > lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there > were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can > often > make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on > their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be > done, > for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as > we try to fight the crap... > > Mark > > _______________________________________________
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Yep, you could have emailed this one privately. Thanks for your constructive contribution, hypocrite.
Andrea
On 12/28/09, MoBo Bicycle Co-op mobobicyclecoop@gmail.com wrote:
Yes indeed. Conversations are good. Have them. But please realize you can respond to just the peoples you are having the conversation with, by typing in their emails. Ahhh---the internet. Helpful for keeping down on the frustration. Cheers,
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM, N.O.Bike Project < nolabikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
To all involved,
This kind of bullshit makes this listserve suck. Please stop.
Love,
Non-gender specific Plan B
Bike City wrote:
Ho hum, I see, you're aware. I'm a nagging, ignorant, uppity bitch. I'm so hysterical (OMG REVERSE SEXISM!) that you will just dismiss and ignore me.
Don't worry, almost all dudes get defensive in exactly the same way when their privilege is challenged. But the best part is you can better yourself if you try!
http://www.uh.edu/~cnathen/feminist.jpghttp://www.uh.edu/%7Ecnathen/feminist.jpg
Andrea
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
Yeah, I'm aware, believe me. You know nothing about me so stop insisting on my ignorance. You've got enough irrational hate going on (just as bad as what I hear some men say about women) that I can't take you seriously.
My apologies to the list - this is my last post on this subject.
Mark
On 28-Dec-09, at 1:55 AM, Bike City wrote:
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to offer.
Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
> Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist > Women by Activist Men > http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html > > > On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote: > > >> On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote: >> >> (snip) >> >> >> >>> More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. >>> Oppression >>> is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing >>> asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a >>> thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let >>> anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em. >>> >>> >> You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this >> broad a brush. >> >> With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one >> going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys >> have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that >> way, and >> at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully >> being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared >> to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store. >> >> Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you >> cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, >> the >> bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I >> would >> much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for- >> profit >> one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of >> shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- >> profit consume-all crap? >> >> Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually >> are men >> who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in >> their >> lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there >> were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can >> often >> make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on >> their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be >> done, >> for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as >> we try to fight the crap... >> >> Mark >> >> > _______________________________________________
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- MoBo Bicycle Co-op a project of The Village Green Foundation 1415 Knowlton Ave Northside Cincinnati, OH
Andrea.
SHUT UP!
Cheers.
Bike City wrote:
Yep, you could have emailed this one privately. Thanks for your constructive contribution, hypocrite.
Andrea
On 12/28/09, MoBo Bicycle Co-op mobobicyclecoop@gmail.com wrote:
Yes indeed. Conversations are good. Have them. But please realize you can respond to just the peoples you are having the conversation with, by typing in their emails. Ahhh---the internet. Helpful for keeping down on the frustration. Cheers,
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM, N.O.Bike Project < nolabikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
To all involved,
This kind of bullshit makes this listserve suck. Please stop.
Love,
Non-gender specific Plan B
Bike City wrote:
Ho hum, I see, you're aware. I'm a nagging, ignorant, uppity bitch. I'm so hysterical (OMG REVERSE SEXISM!) that you will just dismiss and ignore me.
Don't worry, almost all dudes get defensive in exactly the same way when their privilege is challenged. But the best part is you can better yourself if you try!
http://www.uh.edu/~cnathen/feminist.jpghttp://www.uh.edu/%7Ecnathen/feminist.jpg
Andrea
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
Yeah, I'm aware, believe me. You know nothing about me so stop insisting on my ignorance. You've got enough irrational hate going on (just as bad as what I hear some men say about women) that I can't take you seriously.
My apologies to the list - this is my last post on this subject.
Mark
On 28-Dec-09, at 1:55 AM, Bike City wrote:
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
> Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to > insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance > of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get > the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt > you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to > offer. > > Mark > > On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote: > > > >
>> Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist >> Women by Activist Men >> http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html >> >> >> On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote: >> >> >>
>>> On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote: >>> >>> (snip) >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. >>>> Oppression >>>> is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing >>>> asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a >>>> thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let >>>> anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em. >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this >>> broad a brush. >>> >>> With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one >>> going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys >>> have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that >>> way, and >>> at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully >>> being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared >>> to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store. >>> >>> Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you >>> cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, >>> the >>> bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I >>> would >>> much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for- >>> profit >>> one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of >>> shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- >>> profit consume-all crap? >>> >>> Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually >>> are men >>> who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in >>> their >>> lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there >>> were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can >>> often >>> make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on >>> their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be >>> done, >>> for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as >>> we try to fight the crap... >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>>
>> _______________________________________________ >>Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- MoBo Bicycle Co-op a project of The Village Green Foundation 1415 Knowlton Ave Northside Cincinnati, OH
thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
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