Bike Collective VS. Simply giving away bikes
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
Hi Sylvie, I don't know your specific circumstances but perhaps your group can coexist with this gentleman's targeting different recipients. If the earn-a-bike model is what you want to invest in with your time and resources and someone else is "giving away" bikes - how do they pay for the parts/consumables necessary to restore bikes? Are they also working in a non-profit or are they paying for everything themselves? Could they be brought into your model if it were explained how there is more than a bike that is being "given". I hope that he will be able to listen to why the earn-a-bike model has much more social impact through teaching and the recipients "owning" the bike through work and how it is a shared experience. There is also the parable of giving fish versus teaching someone how to fish... Good luck and let me know how it went, Therese Kilpatrick Project Bike Tech Teacher - Aptos High School
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
Sylvie and all,
I don't believe I understand the nature of your meeting. Are you attempting to steer the "Second Change" mission or figuring out some type of strategic partnership with a different org?
I would like to solicit more opinions or discussion on the 'earn-a-bike' model, though. I've worked for and with organizations which heavily used it, particularly in working with young people. I've been at Working Bikes for about 8 years now, and while we invite all community members to volunteer and earn timeshare 'credits' towards parts for their bike, we also give away more than 1,000 bikes a year locally through our Cycle of Power and Cycle of Peace programs. We've used these donations to make powerful partnerships with many different types of organizations, many of which do not use bicycles as a primary focus of their mission. Adult recipients are invited to volunteer or pay a 'co-pay' or $20 towards the bike, helmet and lock we provide, but most decline.
At a certain point, it may be a question of volume, it feels paternalistic to me to tell someone they have to "earn" a resource an organization has the ability to redistribute. I take the question of service vs. charity seriously, but I also believe in the radical redistribution of resources. I don't think it is sustainable for everyone who would benefit from a service to have to learn how that service operates to receive it. There definitely are strong arguments for earn-a-bike, as well as super "CHARITY" http://fb4k.org/ bike orgs starting up.
I've been pondering this discussion as a possible B!B! workshop or roundtable of sorts. I hope you don't feel I've hijacked your thread with hypotheticals, Sylvie, and wish you luck with your meeting.
peace n bike grease, Paul
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Therese Kilpatrick < therese@projectbiketech.org> wrote:
Hi Sylvie, I don't know your specific circumstances but perhaps your group can coexist with this gentleman's targeting different recipients. If the earn-a-bike model is what you want to invest in with your time and resources and someone else is "giving away" bikes - how do they pay for the parts/consumables necessary to restore bikes? Are they also working in a non-profit or are they paying for everything themselves? Could they be brought into your model if it were explained how there is more than a bike that is being "given". I hope that he will be able to listen to why the earn-a-bike model has much more social impact through teaching and the recipients "owning" the bike through work and how it is a shared experience. There is also the parable of giving fish versus teaching someone how to fish... Good luck and let me know how it went, Therese Kilpatrick Project Bike Tech Teacher - Aptos High School
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
Hi Sylvie, We are also in a situation where there is a local giveaway that we are frequently confused with. They have been around for about 10 years and we have been operating for 5. They have a bigger marketing budget and use it to promote their 1-day, 1,000-bike hand out. We operate year round and spend as much time as needed to help people get bikes. That means we redistribute fewer bikes but we feel we deliver a better service.
Although it's a tired cliche (which I acknowledge in conversation) people who ask "do you give away bikes?" always understand when I say that we follow more or less a "teach a person to fish" approach. They also understand when I explain why we sell bikes in addition to offering earn-a-bike. I tell them that we believe everyone should have some skin in the game and therefore it would be incongruous to our mission if we asked for handouts form organizations. We do enjoy and appreciate the financial support we've received on a few occasions from grantmaking organizations but we rely on revenue that we generate through hardwork, just like we ask our customers to do.
I've had this conversation enough times now that I have it polished pretty well. I can't recall a single instance where someone has left the conversation feeling as if we're doing it wrong, in fact it's usually an eye-opening experience for them. My theory on why this is the case is because I think many people out there are still unfamiliar with the social enterprise concept and seem to still think that non-profit means "no money".
I applaud the passion and caring of the many bike giveaway programs out there. I know several of them that do excellent refurbishing and provide free bikes to people who truly need and appreciate them. My experience locally has been different and that's why we stick to our guns.
I hope this helps. I'm willing to chat more on the phone if you'd like. Feel free to call me if you want.
-Matt
*Matt VanSlyke* Executive Director 315.525.9554 | matt@uticabikerescue.orgwww.UticaBikeRescue.org http://facebook.com/uticabikerescue http://instagram.com/uticabikerescue
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Paul Fitzgerald paul@workingbikes.org wrote:
Sylvie and all,
I don't believe I understand the nature of your meeting. Are you attempting to steer the "Second Change" mission or figuring out some type of strategic partnership with a different org?
I would like to solicit more opinions or discussion on the 'earn-a-bike' model, though. I've worked for and with organizations which heavily used it, particularly in working with young people. I've been at Working Bikes for about 8 years now, and while we invite all community members to volunteer and earn timeshare 'credits' towards parts for their bike, we also give away more than 1,000 bikes a year locally through our Cycle of Power and Cycle of Peace programs. We've used these donations to make powerful partnerships with many different types of organizations, many of which do not use bicycles as a primary focus of their mission. Adult recipients are invited to volunteer or pay a 'co-pay' or $20 towards the bike, helmet and lock we provide, but most decline.
At a certain point, it may be a question of volume, it feels paternalistic to me to tell someone they have to "earn" a resource an organization has the ability to redistribute. I take the question of service vs. charity seriously, but I also believe in the radical redistribution of resources. I don't think it is sustainable for everyone who would benefit from a service to have to learn how that service operates to receive it. There definitely are strong arguments for earn-a-bike, as well as super "CHARITY" http://fb4k.org/ bike orgs starting up.
I've been pondering this discussion as a possible B!B! workshop or roundtable of sorts. I hope you don't feel I've hijacked your thread with hypotheticals, Sylvie, and wish you luck with your meeting.
peace n bike grease, Paul
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Therese Kilpatrick < therese@projectbiketech.org> wrote:
Hi Sylvie, I don't know your specific circumstances but perhaps your group can coexist with this gentleman's targeting different recipients. If the earn-a-bike model is what you want to invest in with your time and resources and someone else is "giving away" bikes - how do they pay for the parts/consumables necessary to restore bikes? Are they also working in a non-profit or are they paying for everything themselves? Could they be brought into your model if it were explained how there is more than a bike that is being "given". I hope that he will be able to listen to why the earn-a-bike model has much more social impact through teaching and the recipients "owning" the bike through work and how it is a shared experience. There is also the parable of giving fish versus teaching someone how to fish... Good luck and let me know how it went, Therese Kilpatrick Project Bike Tech Teacher - Aptos High School
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
-- Paul Fitzgerald General Manager, Working Bikes Pronouns https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/: him, his, he 2434 S. Western, Chicago, IL 60608 773-847-5440
Store Hours: Wed, Thurs, Fri- 11am-7pm Sat - 10am-6pm Sun - 11am-4pm
Volunteer Hours: Tues- 5-9pm Wed- 12-5pm Sat- 12-5pm
WTF! Night is every Thursday 5-9pm. It is a volunteer mechanics night exclusively for Women and people who are Transgendered or Gender Non-Conforming.
“El socialismo puede llegar solo en la bicicleta."
"Socialism can only arrive by bicycle."
-José Antonio Viera Gallo, Assistant Secretary of Justice in the government of Salvador Allende
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon Virus-free. www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
I think right off the bat, giveaway orgs need more resources, both money and time. 1,000 bikes a year for us would be at least 2,000 hours of labor and probably would involve throwing away a lot more bikes than we do; we repair almost every bike that we accept the donation of currently.
Also, there's further money problems downstream for recipients of giveaways if they've sought out the bikes for reasons of financial insecurity; when the time comes for maintenance, if they are without the skill for repair, they often can't afford to pay for it either, and then we get a situation of garbage bikes, or a secondary community need for free repair.
Last year our shop had over 300 participants, at least half of whom returned multiple times. This is far less than 1,000, but we ran it on a staff of two operating at a collective 30 hours a week, with very sporadic and unskilled volunteer help. Somebody tell me if my numbers are way off, but I'm pretty sure giveaway organizations would need to spend a couple thousand hours a year more or less exclusively concentrating on fixing bikes for giveaway, and then more if they are also doing repairs for free. If they aren't doing the latter, I can't help but wonder how long those bikes last on the streets before they end up dead and abandoned in a backyard or at a curb.
So obviously this is some spitballing. But my impression is giveaways are a lot more expensive in general, and optimize for large scale transportation empowerment rather than a more targeted and multifaceted empowerment with benefits beyond transportation.
Cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-07-03 01:25, Matt VanSlyke wrote:
Hi Sylvie, We are also in a situation where there is a local giveaway that we are frequently confused with. They have been around for about 10 years and we have been operating for 5. They have a bigger marketing budget and use it to promote their 1-day, 1,000-bike hand out. We operate year round and spend as much time as needed to help people get bikes. That means we redistribute fewer bikes but we feel we deliver a better service.
Although it's a tired cliche (which I acknowledge in conversation) people who ask "do you give away bikes?" always understand when I say that we follow more or less a "teach a person to fish" approach. They also understand when I explain why we sell bikes in addition to offering earn-a-bike. I tell them that we believe everyone should have some skin in the game and therefore it would be incongruous to our mission if we asked for handouts form organizations. We do enjoy and appreciate the financial support we've received on a few occasions from grantmaking organizations but we rely on revenue that we generate through hardwork, just like we ask our customers to do.
I've had this conversation enough times now that I have it polished pretty well. I can't recall a single instance where someone has left the conversation feeling as if we're doing it wrong, in fact it's usually an eye-opening experience for them. My theory on why this is the case is because I think many people out there are still unfamiliar with the social enterprise concept and seem to still think that non-profit means "no money".
I applaud the passion and caring of the many bike giveaway programs out there. I know several of them that do excellent refurbishing and provide free bikes to people who truly need and appreciate them. My experience locally has been different and that's why we stick to our guns.
I hope this helps. I'm willing to chat more on the phone if you'd like. Feel free to call me if you want.
-Matt
*Matt VanSlyke* Executive Director 315.525.9554 | matt@uticabikerescue.orgwww.UticaBikeRescue.org http://facebook.com/uticabikerescue http://instagram.com/uticabikerescue
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Paul Fitzgerald paul@workingbikes.org wrote:
Sylvie and all,
I don't believe I understand the nature of your meeting. Are you attempting to steer the "Second Change" mission or figuring out some type of strategic partnership with a different org?
I would like to solicit more opinions or discussion on the 'earn-a-bike' model, though. I've worked for and with organizations which heavily used it, particularly in working with young people. I've been at Working Bikes for about 8 years now, and while we invite all community members to volunteer and earn timeshare 'credits' towards parts for their bike, we also give away more than 1,000 bikes a year locally through our Cycle of Power and Cycle of Peace programs. We've used these donations to make powerful partnerships with many different types of organizations, many of which do not use bicycles as a primary focus of their mission. Adult recipients are invited to volunteer or pay a 'co-pay' or $20 towards the bike, helmet and lock we provide, but most decline.
At a certain point, it may be a question of volume, it feels paternalistic to me to tell someone they have to "earn" a resource an organization has the ability to redistribute. I take the question of service vs. charity seriously, but I also believe in the radical redistribution of resources. I don't think it is sustainable for everyone who would benefit from a service to have to learn how that service operates to receive it. There definitely are strong arguments for earn-a-bike, as well as super "CHARITY" http://fb4k.org/ bike orgs starting up.
I've been pondering this discussion as a possible B!B! workshop or roundtable of sorts. I hope you don't feel I've hijacked your thread with hypotheticals, Sylvie, and wish you luck with your meeting.
peace n bike grease, Paul
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Therese Kilpatrick < therese@projectbiketech.org> wrote:
Hi Sylvie, I don't know your specific circumstances but perhaps your group can coexist with this gentleman's targeting different recipients. If the earn-a-bike model is what you want to invest in with your time and resources and someone else is "giving away" bikes - how do they pay for the parts/consumables necessary to restore bikes? Are they also working in a non-profit or are they paying for everything themselves? Could they be brought into your model if it were explained how there is more than a bike that is being "given". I hope that he will be able to listen to why the earn-a-bike model has much more social impact through teaching and the recipients "owning" the bike through work and how it is a shared experience. There is also the parable of giving fish versus teaching someone how to fish... Good luck and let me know how it went, Therese Kilpatrick Project Bike Tech Teacher - Aptos High School
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
-- Paul Fitzgerald General Manager, Working Bikes Pronouns https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/: him, his, he 2434 S. Western, Chicago, IL 60608 773-847-5440
Store Hours: Wed, Thurs, Fri- 11am-7pm Sat - 10am-6pm Sun - 11am-4pm
Volunteer Hours: Tues- 5-9pm Wed- 12-5pm Sat- 12-5pm
WTF! Night is every Thursday 5-9pm. It is a volunteer mechanics night exclusively for Women and people who are Transgendered or Gender Non-Conforming.
“El socialismo puede llegar solo en la bicicleta."
"Socialism can only arrive by bicycle."
-José Antonio Viera Gallo, Assistant Secretary of Justice in the government of Salvador Allende
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon Virus-free. www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The need to win an argument/debate/persuade the older male, may be a personal issue that needs looking at.
As far as earn a bike v. Giving bikes away, Gift a Bike is a requirement of some earn a bikes. Do for another as part of the volunteer requirement of earn a bike. These are reconditioning donated bikes and parts. The recipient is likely low income, too young, and already determinef to need it, say around holiday time for a major gift. In the areas, the rich get them anyway, likely not used much, outgrown, and maybe donated or trashed.
The teach a skill part, sometimes helps keep dignity of the recipient. I am learning and part of a community.
Earn a bike is also a lot about kids and after school activity. That carries adult supervision requirements which usually means paid staff. I'm more liking AVOs, all volunteer orgs, less class divide, more equal peers... Instead of lowly newbie volunteer needs to polish stuff for the egos of those who have been there longer. Not dignity nor respect ,imho.
Some are anti gang, no skills for legal employment, so gang is the only option. The family they don't have is the weakness exploited and fake binds that tie...
Someone(s) to watch thier back in hostile environments.
Law, classes, skills, social supports, etc may not exist as most here may enjoy. Even the internet in a language that one is born into...
Good luck. Different tools for different jobs/tasks.
On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 09:03 Cyclista Nicholas cyclista@inventati.org wrote:
I think right off the bat, giveaway orgs need more resources, both money and time. 1,000 bikes a year for us would be at least 2,000 hours of labor and probably would involve throwing away a lot more bikes than we do; we repair almost every bike that we accept the donation of currently.
Also, there's further money problems downstream for recipients of giveaways if they've sought out the bikes for reasons of financial insecurity; when the time comes for maintenance, if they are without the skill for repair, they often can't afford to pay for it either, and then we get a situation of garbage bikes, or a secondary community need for free repair.
Last year our shop had over 300 participants, at least half of whom returned multiple times. This is far less than 1,000, but we ran it on a staff of two operating at a collective 30 hours a week, with very sporadic and unskilled volunteer help. Somebody tell me if my numbers are way off, but I'm pretty sure giveaway organizations would need to spend a couple thousand hours a year more or less exclusively concentrating on fixing bikes for giveaway, and then more if they are also doing repairs for free. If they aren't doing the latter, I can't help but wonder how long those bikes last on the streets before they end up dead and abandoned in a backyard or at a curb.
So obviously this is some spitballing. But my impression is giveaways are a lot more expensive in general, and optimize for large scale transportation empowerment rather than a more targeted and multifaceted empowerment with benefits beyond transportation.
Cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-07-03 01:25, Matt VanSlyke wrote:
Hi Sylvie, We are also in a situation where there is a local giveaway that we are frequently confused with. They have been around for about 10 years and we have been operating for 5. They have a bigger marketing budget and use it to promote their 1-day, 1,000-bike hand out. We operate year round and spend as much time as needed to help people get bikes. That means we redistribute fewer bikes but we feel we deliver a better service.
Although it's a tired cliche (which I acknowledge in conversation) people who ask "do you give away bikes?" always understand when I say that we follow more or less a "teach a person to fish" approach. They also understand when I explain why we sell bikes in addition to offering earn-a-bike. I tell them that we believe everyone should have some skin in the game and therefore it would be incongruous to our mission if we asked for handouts form organizations. We do enjoy and appreciate the financial support we've received on a few occasions from grantmaking organizations but we rely on revenue that we generate through hardwork, just like we ask our customers to do.
I've had this conversation enough times now that I have it polished pretty well. I can't recall a single instance where someone has left the conversation feeling as if we're doing it wrong, in fact it's usually an eye-opening experience for them. My theory on why this is the case is because I think many people out there are still unfamiliar with the social enterprise concept and seem to still think that non-profit means "no money".
I applaud the passion and caring of the many bike giveaway programs out there. I know several of them that do excellent refurbishing and provide free bikes to people who truly need and appreciate them. My experience locally has been different and that's why we stick to our guns.
I hope this helps. I'm willing to chat more on the phone if you'd like. Feel free to call me if you want.
-Matt
*Matt VanSlyke* Executive Director 315.525.9554 | matt@uticabikerescue.orgwww.UticaBikeRescue.org http://facebook.com/uticabikerescue http://instagram.com/uticabikerescue
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Paul Fitzgerald paul@workingbikes.org wrote:
Sylvie and all,
I don't believe I understand the nature of your meeting. Are you attempting to steer the "Second Change" mission or figuring out some type of strategic partnership with a different org?
I would like to solicit more opinions or discussion on the 'earn-a-bike' model, though. I've worked for and with organizations which heavily used it, particularly in working with young people. I've been at Working Bikes for about 8 years now, and while we invite all community members to volunteer and earn timeshare 'credits' towards parts for their bike, we also give away more than 1,000 bikes a year locally through our Cycle of Power and Cycle of Peace programs. We've used these donations to make powerful partnerships with many different types of organizations, many of which do not use bicycles as a primary focus of their mission. Adult recipients are invited to volunteer or pay a 'co-pay' or $20 towards the bike, helmet and lock we provide, but most decline.
At a certain point, it may be a question of volume, it feels paternalistic to me to tell someone they have to "earn" a resource an organization has the ability to redistribute. I take the question of service vs. charity seriously, but I also believe in the radical redistribution of resources. I don't think it is sustainable for everyone who would benefit from a service to have to learn how that service operates to receive it. There definitely are strong arguments for earn-a-bike, as well as super "CHARITY" http://fb4k.org/ bike orgs starting up.
I've been pondering this discussion as a possible B!B! workshop or roundtable of sorts. I hope you don't feel I've hijacked your thread with hypotheticals, Sylvie, and wish you luck with your meeting.
peace n bike grease, Paul
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Therese Kilpatrick < therese@projectbiketech.org> wrote:
Hi Sylvie, I don't know your specific circumstances but perhaps your group can coexist with this gentleman's targeting different recipients. If the earn-a-bike model is what you want to invest in with your time and resources and someone else is "giving away" bikes - how do they pay for the parts/consumables necessary to restore bikes? Are they also working in a non-profit or are they paying for everything themselves? Could they be brought into your model if it were explained how there is more than a bike that is being "given". I hope that he will be able to listen to why the earn-a-bike model has much more social impact through teaching and the recipients "owning" the bike through work and how it is a shared experience. There is also the parable of giving fish versus teaching someone how to fish... Good luck and let me know how it went, Therese Kilpatrick Project Bike Tech Teacher - Aptos High School
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
-- Paul Fitzgerald General Manager, Working Bikes Pronouns https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/: him, his, he 2434 S. Western, Chicago, IL 60608 773-847-5440
Store Hours: Wed, Thurs, Fri- 11am-7pm Sat - 10am-6pm Sun - 11am-4pm
Volunteer Hours: Tues- 5-9pm Wed- 12-5pm Sat- 12-5pm
WTF! Night is every Thursday 5-9pm. It is a volunteer mechanics night exclusively for Women and people who are Transgendered or Gender Non-Conforming.
“El socialismo puede llegar solo en la bicicleta."
"Socialism can only arrive by bicycle."
-José Antonio Viera Gallo, Assistant Secretary of Justice in the government of Salvador Allende
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
<
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm...
Virus-free. www.avast.com <
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm...
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or... ____________________________________
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
At CycleReCycle( https://www.cycle-re-cycle-swm.org/) we have a policy of not giving away bikes free to anyone. People have to earn them. Our L'EarnABike program geared primarily for young people 9 to 19 teaches basic bike mechanics, maintenance, and repair, and safe street riding. It is often the first vocational type training many of these young people have ever had. Many have no experience using tools, the correct tool or using it properly.. Importantly by design the program also teaches a number of social skills along the way. These include how to ask for and give help, how to have a polite conversation with someone perhaps from a different culture or ethnicity, looking someone in the eye and addressing them by name, how to show up on time as scheduled, how to dress and behave in a work environment . We don't put up with foul language and have a strict anti-bullying policy. We give quite a few 1st job referrals to young grads. One thing we see is when a group of kids on bikes come together to our shop the ones who have been through our program have far better maintained bikes even though they have no more money than the others. They've learned how to take care of them . They are also the ones who will put their bike in a rack or stand it up against something and lock it. The others tend to jump off and leave them crashed wherever they fall. We've also worked through a local prisoner recovery program with some people just getting out of prison. They typically are living in a shelter, have no $, no job, and need transportation to look for work and begin to get their life in order. For their program we generally guide them in picking out a bike to meet their needs from our inventory of donated bikes. They totally disassemble that bike into a pile of parts, then reassemble and adjust everything. We work closely with probation officers and have given out 1st job referrals. We find that getting bikes to people who need them in this way is far more effective long term than just giving out a free bike.
CycleReCycle
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
I'd love to have this exact conversation on my podcast, bike talk. It's streamed live, and participants can call in. I once tried suggesting this here and was blasted for "mining" the list, but I don't really see the harm. It's not like we have anything to do with money or fame. And, I'm running a bike club at the middle school where I teach, where we give away bikes at the end of the year, so I'm facing the same issue. When we just gave away bikes the first year to some students who didn't really work on them, for example, we never saw them again. I'm hoping for a different result for next year, since last year's club did at least some work to earn the bikes. On a related note, I need a good bike curriculum. Friday, July 13th, 6-8pm PST is the next Bike Talk recording, if anyone's interested in weighing in on this topic.
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 5:36 AM, Cycle-Re-Cycle <cycle.re.cycle.swm@gmail.com
wrote:
At CycleReCycle( https://www.cycle-re-cycle-swm.org/) we have a policy of not giving away bikes free to anyone. People have to earn them. Our L'EarnABike program geared primarily for young people 9 to 19 teaches basic bike mechanics, maintenance, and repair, and safe street riding. It is often the first vocational type training many of these young people have ever had. Many have no experience using tools, the correct tool or using it properly.. Importantly by design the program also teaches a number of social skills along the way. These include how to ask for and give help, how to have a polite conversation with someone perhaps from a different culture or ethnicity, looking someone in the eye and addressing them by name, how to show up on time as scheduled, how to dress and behave in a work environment . We don't put up with foul language and have a strict anti-bullying policy. We give quite a few 1st job referrals to young grads. One thing we see is when a group of kids on bikes come together to our shop the ones who have been through our program have far better maintained bikes even though they have no more money than the others. They've learned how to take care of them . They are also the ones who will put their bike in a rack or stand it up against something and lock it. The others tend to jump off and leave them crashed wherever they fall. We've also worked through a local prisoner recovery program with some people just getting out of prison. They typically are living in a shelter, have no $, no job, and need transportation to look for work and begin to get their life in order. For their program we generally guide them in picking out a bike to meet their needs from our inventory of donated bikes. They totally disassemble that bike into a pile of parts, then reassemble and adjust everything. We work closely with probation officers and have given out 1st job referrals. We find that getting bikes to people who need them in this way is far more effective long term than just giving out a free bike.
CycleReCycle
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.o rg/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
I think the attitude might be a big problem. I wasn't able to understand anything from the sexiest mansplaning viewpoint. the only detail you gave what he gives bikes away for free. otherwise everything else was dismissed from his conversation to you, when you then wrote it to us. so start off with the details of what he thinks is a good reason to give bikes away for free. now for your point of view I agree with you that earning a bike is very important versus getting a bike for free. People take care of things they earn and they are less careful with things they don't earn. I also agree it builds community. I disagree that is more sustainable a good business plan is what makes either of these programs sustainable or Crash and Burn. I disagree that earning a bike makes you more safe you have safety education as a component of the training. Earning a bike on its own does not necessarily make you safer as a cyclist. and you are correct learning to work on your own bike while earning a bike is empowering to the cyclist.
Now spend some time listening to the mansplaining. And tell us what he thinks is Right rather than just dismiss him out of hand. Second youth is not a reason to feel you have no persuasive power of communication. And I understand that there is sexism out there in both directions. Listen to understand not to just be submissive. Speak to be understood clearly not to just talk or lecture.
I do wish you the best of luck . I think you have the start of good ideas
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: [TheThinkTank] Bike Collective VS. Simply giving away bikes From: "Sylvie Baele" sylvgrb@gmail.com Date: 7/2/18 8:13 am To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt
____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Christopher that response sucked. It was tactless and off topic. There's something to be said for gritting your teeth and trying to screen for valid data even when you expect a biased encounter, but that isn't the advice that was requested or the situation she was concerned about.
I personally don't want to hear about the virtues of mansplaining on this list. I'm male and my entire job is to explain things - there's a difference and the fact that you aren't giving OP the benefit of the doubt in understanding this implies you're looking for a soapbox. Start your own thread for that, please.
Cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-07-05 04:46, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I think the attitude might be a big problem. I wasn't able to understand anything from the sexiest mansplaning viewpoint. the only detail you gave what he gives bikes away for free. otherwise everything else was dismissed from his conversation to you, when you then wrote it to us. so start off with the details of what he thinks is a good reason to give bikes away for free. now for your point of view I agree with you that earning a bike is very important versus getting a bike for free. People take care of things they earn and they are less careful with things they don't earn. I also agree it builds community. I disagree that is more sustainable a good business plan is what makes either of these programs sustainable or Crash and Burn. I disagree that earning a bike makes you more safe you have safety education as a component of the training. Earning a bike on its own does not necessarily make you safer as a cyclist. and you are correct learning to work on your own bike while earning a bike is empowering to the cyclist.
Now spend some time listening to the mansplaining. And tell us what he thinks is Right rather than just dismiss him out of hand. Second youth is not a reason to feel you have no persuasive power of communication. And I understand that there is sexism out there in both directions. Listen to understand not to just be submissive. Speak to be understood clearly not to just talk or lecture.
I do wish you the best of luck . I think you have the start of good ideas
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: [TheThinkTank] Bike Collective VS. Simply giving away bikes From: "Sylvie Baele" sylvgrb@gmail.com Date: 7/2/18 8:13 am To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt
____________________________________ The ThinkTank mailing List Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Hey Sylvie,
*Here are a couple of articles about ages and stages of youth development that might be helpful. * http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/6_to_8_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_devel... http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/9_to_11_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_deve... http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/12_to_14_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_dev...
I find the 9-11 year range pretty fascinating when it comes to bikes, as you can really begin to see some of the independence begin to form. You could probably look at some of the characteristics within the development stages and make an argument of how earn-a-bike would make a positive addition to these stages of development. You could also look at that 6-11 year old age groups and see how some of those ages might be a little young to go through the requirements of some earn-a-bike programs.
At the Boise Bicycle Project, we donate bikes to kids 11 and under and have an EAB program for kids 12-18 years old. In our experience, we've found a lot of kids lack the independence to get down to our workspace one their own, making Earn-a-bike a lot more difficult. We've also found the attentions span at that age makes it more difficult to have a more lengthy structured program. There are definitely exceptions, and we've allowed some younger kids in to our EAB programs.
For those kids under 12, our bike giveaway program still requires a completion of a 30 minute bike safety class that we hold at the same time they get their bike. You could argue that this is earning component, where the kids are still investing some time.
Hopefully those articles can help provide a little assistance. Good luck!
Ride On!
Jimmy Hallyburton Founder / Executive Director Boise Bicycle Project (208)-429-6520 1027 Lusk St Boise, ID 83706 www.boisebicycleproject.org
Explore some of the BBP Journey in my TEDx Talk on Moving at the Speed of Discovery https://youtu.be/yDubr-RjlCE?t=6s!
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives. org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
A program that the Rockville Bike Hub runs in conjunction with the City of Rockville gives bikes to 1st through 5th grade students in the City. As part of this program, the students have to perform six "good deeds" documented by a parent or other adult. This seems to correspond well with the idea that the typical elementary school child may not be a good candidate for a typical earn-a-bike program, but provides them with an alternative way to earn a bike. Students in middle school and high school are best suited to a more typical earn-a-bike program. In Maryland, students are also required to have a certain number of Student Service Learning (SSL) hours to graduate high school. Learning about bike maintenance and repair while helping to fix bikes for the younger kids is a great win-win situation.
Steve Andruski The Rockville Bike Hub
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 11:12 AM Jimmy Hallyburton < jimmy@boisebicycleproject.org> wrote:
Hey Sylvie,
*Here are a couple of articles about ages and stages of youth development that might be helpful. *
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/6_to_8_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_devel...
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/9_to_11_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_deve...
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/12_to_14_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_dev...
I find the 9-11 year range pretty fascinating when it comes to bikes, as you can really begin to see some of the independence begin to form. You could probably look at some of the characteristics within the development stages and make an argument of how earn-a-bike would make a positive addition to these stages of development. You could also look at that 6-11 year old age groups and see how some of those ages might be a little young to go through the requirements of some earn-a-bike programs.
At the Boise Bicycle Project, we donate bikes to kids 11 and under and have an EAB program for kids 12-18 years old. In our experience, we've found a lot of kids lack the independence to get down to our workspace one their own, making Earn-a-bike a lot more difficult. We've also found the attentions span at that age makes it more difficult to have a more lengthy structured program. There are definitely exceptions, and we've allowed some younger kids in to our EAB programs.
For those kids under 12, our bike giveaway program still requires a completion of a 30 minute bike safety class that we hold at the same time they get their bike. You could argue that this is earning component, where the kids are still investing some time.
Hopefully those articles can help provide a little assistance. Good luck!
Ride On!
Jimmy Hallyburton Founder / Executive Director Boise Bicycle Project (208)-429-6520 1027 Lusk St Boise, ID 83706 www.boisebicycleproject.org
Explore some of the BBP Journey in my TEDx Talk on Moving at the Speed of Discovery https://youtu.be/yDubr-RjlCE?t=6s!
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
Steve and Jimmy,
Thank you very much for the age-based perspective. I really hadn't considered these brackets, and thinking about my experiences with kids 6-10 vs. older, I can see them being relevant. Really helpful.
Cyclista Nicholas
On 2018-07-05 15:26, Stephen Andruski wrote:
A program that the Rockville Bike Hub runs in conjunction with the City of Rockville gives bikes to 1st through 5th grade students in the City. As part of this program, the students have to perform six "good deeds" documented by a parent or other adult. This seems to correspond well with the idea that the typical elementary school child may not be a good candidate for a typical earn-a-bike program, but provides them with an alternative way to earn a bike. Students in middle school and high school are best suited to a more typical earn-a-bike program. In Maryland, students are also required to have a certain number of Student Service Learning (SSL) hours to graduate high school. Learning about bike maintenance and repair while helping to fix bikes for the younger kids is a great win-win situation.
Steve Andruski The Rockville Bike Hub
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 11:12 AM Jimmy Hallyburton < jimmy@boisebicycleproject.org> wrote:
Hey Sylvie,
*Here are a couple of articles about ages and stages of youth development that might be helpful. *
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/6_to_8_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_devel...
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/9_to_11_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_deve...
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/12_to_14_year_olds_ages_and_stages_of_youth_dev...
I find the 9-11 year range pretty fascinating when it comes to bikes, as you can really begin to see some of the independence begin to form. You could probably look at some of the characteristics within the development stages and make an argument of how earn-a-bike would make a positive addition to these stages of development. You could also look at that 6-11 year old age groups and see how some of those ages might be a little young to go through the requirements of some earn-a-bike programs.
At the Boise Bicycle Project, we donate bikes to kids 11 and under and have an EAB program for kids 12-18 years old. In our experience, we've found a lot of kids lack the independence to get down to our workspace one their own, making Earn-a-bike a lot more difficult. We've also found the attentions span at that age makes it more difficult to have a more lengthy structured program. There are definitely exceptions, and we've allowed some younger kids in to our EAB programs.
For those kids under 12, our bike giveaway program still requires a completion of a 30 minute bike safety class that we hold at the same time they get their bike. You could argue that this is earning component, where the kids are still investing some time.
Hopefully those articles can help provide a little assistance. Good luck!
Ride On!
Jimmy Hallyburton Founder / Executive Director Boise Bicycle Project (208)-429-6520 1027 Lusk St Boise, ID 83706 www.boisebicycleproject.org
Explore some of the BBP Journey in my TEDx Talk on Moving at the Speed of Discovery https://youtu.be/yDubr-RjlCE?t=6s!
On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Sylvie Baele sylvgrb@gmail.com wrote:
Alright friends, I am reaching out for some resources.. I have a meeting soon with a guy who has an organization which gives away bikes. "Second Chance Bikes"
Now, I don't disagree with giving people bikes... but I think the bike collective model (like earn-a-bike) is more empowering and sustainable long-term. And of course encourages safer riding, all while building community...
Got any resources (or data) that can help support my/our position? I am a bit nervous as my meeting is with an older white male and I'm a younger female. He's already mansplained me once before.
Bikes!
Sylvie Baele
*"I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." - Alexander von Humbolt*
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
The ThinkTank mailing List
Unsubscribe from this list here: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/options.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.or...
participants (11)
-
Bike Talk -
christopher＠holisticcycles.com -
Cycle-Re-Cycle -
Cyclista Nicholas -
DancesWithCars -
Jimmy Hallyburton -
Matt VanSlyke -
Paul Fitzgerald -
Stephen Andruski -
Sylvie Baele -
Therese Kilpatrick