'The bike has been infected forever'… with the electrification virus ( ? ! )
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German branded products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Here in Detroit we are open to anything that allows for affordable transportation. People are welcome to use our tools for whatever.
Mars Psyence
www.redplanetbicycles.tumblr.com
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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Maybe 'threat' is the wrong word. But an e-bike … just doesn't strike me as the same as a bike. For one thing, there is an economic and demographic differentiation, e-bikes tend to be bought by older people who have several thousands to spend.
It is an odd feeling to be swiftly overtaken by a very old person riding a bike, pedaling very slowly. But … maybe I need to feel more inclusive about it.
Wendy
On 04 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Kevin Dwyer wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich geoff.bercarich@gmail.com wrote: My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage.
On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote: Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German branded products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Kevin Dwyer ThinkLaw Utah State Bar #11235 Washington State Bar #37740
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Perhaps both are correct. The situation you describe is cause for concern, and is further brought out in my own response. And despite comments to the contrary, I think "threat" is a perfect word. E-bikes represent a threat to the safety of human powered transport without a doubt. In the purest terms the situation you describe is demonstrative of the added dangers if by nothing else, the increased traffic and speeds alone. As others have alluded to, in less pure terms the socioeconomic and demographic threat could play havoc with funding and all sorts of other factors. Imagine if you would if AARP or other like minded well heeled organization decided that HP riders are a threat, and clog up the rail-trails that eBikers are dependent upon to maintain their independence and mobility. An interesting twist wouldn't you agree?
Again, its not a matter of one or the other, its about developing a like mindedness to work and ride together.
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Wendy Monroe wendy.monroe@usermail.com To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 11:16 am Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] 'The bike has been infected forever'… with the electrification virus ( ? ! )
Maybe 'threat' is the wrong word. But an e-bike … just doesn't strike me as the same as a bike. For one thing, there is an economic and demographic differentiation, e-bikes tend to be bought by older people who have several thousands to spend.
It is an odd feeling to be swiftly overtaken by a very old person riding a bike, pedaling very slowly. But … maybe I need to feel more inclusive about it.
Wendy
On 04 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Kevin Dwyer wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin
The Bicycle Collective
Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich geoff.bercarich@gmail.com wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles. Make signage.
On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German branded products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
I've just asked our Board (which is comprised of staffers) to make a policy on e-bikes and scooters. Since we do not stock new parts, and also only have one mechanic that knows about the electrical aspects of the above, we have neither the parts supply nor the know-how to help folks with the non-bike aspects.
So while the e-assist thing is great (my big cargo trike uses a rear hub motor with lithium battery pack) our shop will not likely be able to offer full support for e-bikes anytime soon.
Mark Rehder - Coordinator re-Cycles Community Bike Shop http://re-cycles.ca
On 2013-01-04, at 11:07 AM, Kevin Dwyer wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich geoff.bercarich@gmail.com wrote: My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage.
On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote: Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German branded products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Kevin Dwyer ThinkLaw Utah State Bar #11235 Washington State Bar #37740
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
I have a mountain bike, an electric bike, and an electric scooter. They are fantastic. There are a bunch of retrofitters out there which would work perfectly with a sturdy used bike. This is going to be an enormous market in the US. There are over 100 million ebikes on the streets of China. Something like 1 out of 10 bikes sold in Europe is an ebike. My advice would be to offer the conversion kits. All Cell Technologies in chicago sells battery packs for Hilltopper Electric Bike kits. Takes 5 minutes to change to a tire with an in-wheel hub motor.
I'd be happy to discuss my research further with anyone interested.
~John
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
I've just asked our Board (which is comprised of staffers) to make a policy on e-bikes and scooters. Since we do not stock new parts, and also only have one mechanic that knows about the electrical aspects of the above, we have neither the parts supply nor the know-how to help folks with the non-bike aspects.
So while the e-assist thing is great (my big cargo trike uses a rear hub motor with lithium battery pack) our shop will not likely be able to offer full support for e-bikes anytime soon.
Mark Rehder - Coordinator re-Cycles Community Bike Shop http://re-cycles.ca
On 2013-01-04, at 11:07 AM, Kevin Dwyer wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Kevin Dwyer ThinkLaw Utah State Bar #11235 Washington State Bar #37740
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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I think I might have worded it differently, but essentially, Bravo Kevin...and right on: Inclusion and toleration is key, not separatist of elitism.
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Kevin Dwyer kevidwyer@gmail.com To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 11:07 am Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] 'The bike has been infected forever'… with the electrification virus ( ? ! )
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin
The Bicycle Collective
Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich geoff.bercarich@gmail.com wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles. Make signage.
On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German branded products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Kevin has it right!!!
Sent from my phone. On Jan 4, 2013 9:07 AM, "Kevin Dwyer" kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Kevin Dwyer ThinkLaw Utah State Bar #11235 Washington State Bar #37740
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
"They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off? "
Mopeds have pedals too, but we don't generally consider them members of the bicycle community.
e-bikes are often poorly made, too heavy for our stands to hold and our wrenches to lift, and because our wrenches lack the expertise to work on them (and lack any interest in doing so), we prohibit them from the shop.
(Also, the type of e-bike that typically shows up at a bike co-op (at least the one I wrench at) is a homemade DUIcycle botch job that's generally marginally roadworthy in the best of circumstances, so we prefer leaving those cans of worms unopened.)
e-bikes may well serve a valid purpose as a two-wheeled variant of a mobility scooter, but for the average person, the traditional human powered bike is a superior solution.
YMMV. Obviously.
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Sue Prant sue@communitycycles.org wrote:
Kevin has it right!!!
Sent from my phone. On Jan 4, 2013 9:07 AM, "Kevin Dwyer" kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
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-- Kevin Dwyer ThinkLaw Utah State Bar #11235 Washington State Bar #37740
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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Agreed. Well said, Kevin.
.. I think there is room for a nonprofit sector to deal with electric assist vehicles on their own. We have not seen that impulse or push within our communities yet maybe sometime in the next 10 years.
Organizations should not go out of their comfort zone to accommodate to electric assist Vehicles.
This is not an issue of ethics and morality it's an issue of accessibility to transportation and whether your community space can accommodate to that form of transportation. On Jan 4, 2013 3:45 PM, "Matthew VanSlyke" matt@nybc.net wrote:
Agreed. Well said, Kevin.
-- *Matt VanSlyke* *Development Director New York Bicycling Coalition www.nybc.net 315-525-9554*
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Sue Prant sue@communitycycles.org wrote:
Kevin has it right!!!
Sent from my phone. On Jan 4, 2013 9:07 AM, "Kevin Dwyer" kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Kevin Dwyer ThinkLaw Utah State Bar #11235 Washington State Bar #37740
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
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-- *Matt VanSlyke* *Development Director New York Bicycling Coalition www.nybc.net 315-525-9554*
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As a "human-powered purist" who came upon an e-bike fortuitously, I agree with Kevin 100%. Sure, shops that want to include them will have to make small adaptations, but mine, for example, aside from the extra battery weight and electrical components, it's still 90% bike. I still need to do brake, derailleur, and wheel adjustments, just like with any other bike. Just weighin' in, -Rob
Robert O. Rowe III http://www.google.com/profiles/rorowe @rorowe
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
.. I think there is room for a nonprofit sector to deal with electric assist vehicles on their own. We have not seen that impulse or push within our communities yet maybe sometime in the next 10 years.
Organizations should not go out of their comfort zone to accommodate to electric assist Vehicles.
This is not an issue of ethics and morality it's an issue of accessibility to transportation and whether your community space can accommodate to that form of transportation. On Jan 4, 2013 3:45 PM, "Matthew VanSlyke" matt@nybc.net wrote:
Agreed. Well said, Kevin.
-- *Matt VanSlyke* *Development Director New York Bicycling Coalition www.nybc.net 315-525-9554*
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Sue Prant sue@communitycycles.orgwrote:
Kevin has it right!!!
Sent from my phone. On Jan 4, 2013 9:07 AM, "Kevin Dwyer" kevidwyer@gmail.com wrote:
This is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative to a car but for whom their 150 watts of power won't suffice. These people have cargo bikes (sometimes with kids), live where there are steep hills, have long commutes etc., etc. etc. Should we discourage bus transit for those who need it simply because the cleanest technology has not been adopted. What about those folks for whom the electric bike is one of their quiver? What about people who don't have 150 watts?
They have pedals, right. Those people are members of your community, right. They'd like to support your shop, right? And you're saying that because its not the purest/best technology, they should piss off?
How much more respect would all cyclists get if 5% of car drivers were suddenly e-bikers? How much more funding would bicycle safety, bicycle pathways and bicycle storage receive? These are our allies. Ever heard that old axiom about "cutting off your nose"? How about wheelchairs, handcycles, push scooters, skateboarders?
Strive to be inclusive. With some caveats to safety and capacity, we're in the mobility business; anyone trying to ride more softly on the earth is welcome.
Kevin The Bicycle Collective Salt Lake City
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- Kevin Dwyer ThinkLaw Utah State Bar #11235 Washington State Bar #37740
IMPORTANT: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you are not responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that the disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (801) 647-0797, and return the original message to me at the above address via email. Thank you.
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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-- *Matt VanSlyke* *Development Director New York Bicycling Coalition www.nybc.net 315-525-9554*
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A bike with a motor is a motorbike.
Having said that, I think we need to keep an open mind regarding e-bikes. In Longmont, and I'd expect in other areas of the Southwest and Florida we're all seeing an uptick (albeit small) in people over 60 purchasing e-bikes to get around town. In fact, we have a couple examples of seniors selling their cars and riding e-bikes as an alternative. These folks use our Bike Valet at our local farmer's market. Seniors using our Bike Valet say they prefer the e-bike to pedal bikes because they are easier to get around on. They also prefer e-bikes to their own cars for safety reasons. The seniors we spoke with said they often find themselves driving far slower than the posted speed limits and feel they are becoming less skilled drivers. The e-bike fills the gap for them. The e-bike allows them to still be mobile do small errands and allows them to get some exercise.
In fact once our Bike Garage is up and running I'd like to work with a few active adult facilities to pilot an e-bike program. As for now, we have no policies in place that would allow or discourage e-bike maintenance.
In general though - prior to hearing from these elders I had only approached the e-bike thing from the point of view of a capable cyclist, forgetting that there are those older than myself who could benefit from a little electric assist.
IMO.
Ryan Bicycle Longmont Longmont Colorado - www.bicyclelongmont.org
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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I was in China last year. E-bikes and scooters everywhere. As utilitarian transportation in a city like Beijing, it made a lot more sense than bicycles. It made the long urban distances, heavy cargo, and reasonable speed in inclement weather possible for normal humans. There's about 1% of us in North America that are willing to haul ourselves long distances, over hill and under hill, with or without cargo, on a regular bicycle. E-bikes make things more accessible for those that can't or, significantly, *won't*.
The ones I usually see are pieces of garbage, and I hate working on them (and I have a degree in computer engineering!), but that's because they are often also used by people with physical disabilities on some form of financial assistance. It sounds like there are a lot of differences between regions in how e-bikes are used and catching on.
But, regardless: one more e-bike means one less car, right? There are certainly issues with sharing infrastructure, etc. (in China, there are basically separate adjacent roadways--think access or service roads--for all 2- or 3- wheeled vehicles instead of just thin bike lanes), but those issues can be dealt with.
If I were picking and choosing bikes that most closely meet the Platonic Ideal of the Utilitarian Bicycle Promoting Transportation Mode Shift in the General Population, I'd kick out fashionable hipster fixies before the e-bikes.
(But I'm not!)
Christopher Chan *Executive Director* Edmonton Bicycle Commuters' Society 10047 80 Ave (entrance in rear lane) Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, T6E 1T4 edmontonbikes.ca *w:* (780) 433-2453 || *c:* (780) 700-5564
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Ryan Kragerud rjkragerud@gmail.com wrote:
A bike with a motor is a motorbike.
Having said that, I think we need to keep an open mind regarding e-bikes. In Longmont, and I'd expect in other areas of the Southwest and Florida we're all seeing an uptick (albeit small) in people over 60 purchasing e-bikes to get around town. In fact, we have a couple examples of seniors selling their cars and riding e-bikes as an alternative. These folks use our Bike Valet at our local farmer's market. Seniors using our Bike Valet say they prefer the e-bike to pedal bikes because they are easier to get around on. They also prefer e-bikes to their own cars for safety reasons. The seniors we spoke with said they often find themselves driving far slower than the posted speed limits and feel they are becoming less skilled drivers. The e-bike fills the gap for them. The e-bike allows them to still be mobile do small errands and allows them to get some exercise.
In fact once our Bike Garage is up and running I'd like to work with a few active adult facilities to pilot an e-bike program. As for now, we have no policies in place that would allow or discourage e-bike maintenance.
In general though - prior to hearing from these elders I had only approached the e-bike thing from the point of view of a capable cyclist, forgetting that there are those older than myself who could benefit from a little electric assist.
IMO.
Ryan Bicycle Longmont Longmont Colorado - www.bicyclelongmont.org
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Geoffrey Bercarich < geoff.bercarich@gmail.com> wrote:
My community bike space does not allow the fixing or repairing of electric assist vehicles.
Make signage. On Jan 4, 2013 2:36 AM, "Wendy Monroe" wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German *branded* products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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Electric Assisted Vehicles or Electric Assisted Bicycles or Pedal Assisted Electracycles are not new. This is the second or third time such vehicles and technologies have been introduced, though its the first time to my knowledge they have come directly from the bicycle manufacturers themselves or other technological savvy manufacturers.
When this latest round of machines began to appear I ignored them, "they didn't make it before, they won't make it now" I thought to myself.
But thankfully a new day is dawning on many fronts that I suspect will keep at least some of these machines alive and well sharing and traveling the same roads and other venues that bikes do now.
I have mixed emotions about it. More importantly I have concerns about them and their riders.
Some IBD will embrace them as they already have as they mean a new audience, and new revenues. Electric or Electric assisted machines do not have to be an offense to the HP (Human Powered purist). There is room for all, provided some understandings are reached, and this is where my concern is.
But that was not the question put forth by Wendy.
Yes, there is tremendous growth and interest in the use of Electric Assisted two wheeled machines here in the eastern United States. I see more and more IBD's offering a tiny spot in their showroom to these machines, far more than I see offering up space for tandems, recumbents, or row bikes or even street striders or elip2go type offerings.
There is no longer in my mind a question about are Electric Assisted machines a part of the equation or are they a passing fancy. They are indeed here, and I suspect, here to stay.
As to there influence or effect on the HP bicycle industry and community, I think a lot remains to be seen. There will be some converts from one to the other no doubt. But will the coop, the IBD and other related organizations long be influenced by them or even be home to the electric assisted question.
I think it goes right back to the earlier question about human oppression and gender, race, cultural connection....some will accept, some will embrace, some will reject and many will make noise.
At the end of the day, I suspect, you will have IBD's and COOPs that embrace and accept and will in some way benefit, in others not. At the same time you will have separatists who also benefit, and others that will see it as a constant ongoing issue worth ranting and raving about.
My concern however is this: A power assisted machine has the ability to travel at what speed, up a hill? If it is sharing the same bike trail as a HPV, that is a recipe for problems. What do we do about that?
Likewise, falling off a power assisted machine is always going to have more injury potential than a purely HP machine. And when you put the two side by side, or in a ride line....you increase the potential for accident and injury to both. So how do you manage that matter?
Thoughts?
Interesting topic for sure.
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: Wendy Monroe wendy.monroe@usermail.com To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 2:36 am Subject: [TheThinkTank] 'The bike has been infected forever'… with the electrification virus ( ? ! )
Hello think tankers,
I'm seeing a lot of this sort of talk in the Netherlands… Is there a broad trend in the States moving this direction, as well?
This Extra Energy organization is not thinking in terms of Cheap chinese made imports but rather of very pricey ( typically ) German products. Or perhaps German branded products, manufactured in China….
But I see e-bikes in general as somewhat of a threat to those of us who love non electrified bicycles.
Any thoughts on this, fellow Americans?
http://extraenergy.org/main.php?language=en&category=information&sub...
Wendy
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
participants (13)
-
Christopher Chan -
Geoffrey Bercarich -
John Brophy -
John Brown -
Kevin Dwyer -
Mark Rehder -
mars psymons -
Matthew VanSlyke -
mfen651＠aol.com -
Robert Rowe -
Ryan Kragerud -
Sue Prant -
Wendy Monroe