Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a bit of overeager volunteering?
Best, Sherief
Tools break. but as to the chain tool and pumps: I like the Park tool (CT-3?- threaded replacable pin). before I hand someone a chaintool at the Bikechurch, or use one, I look at two things: spin the handle to see if the pin is bent, and look closely at the end to see iff it's mushroomed. if either is the case, use in that condition can brake the pin or cause it to become stuck in the chain/unthread itself, etc.- all negative situations.
if the pin is mushroomed, grind the edges off to a little bevel. (we have a terrible little hand crank grinder for such tasks). If it's bent, replace it.
as far as pumps go. . . silca pumps are the most durable and most servicable. generally, the presta chuck is ruined by folks shoving it on a schrader valve- clear labeling and user education is the answer. I am generally responsible (as oposed to irresponsible) for the pumps here, and they need frequent maintenence- my complaint is about the lack of good schrader chucks.
josh
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
Best, Sherief
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
We've had the same problems.
For the pump, I would avoid the ones with the 'Smart Head" (one head
works for both valves). There's always one person who looks at that
head and thinks of the older single heads where one had to open them
to flip the bits around for each valve. Sure enough, a Smart Head
gets unscrewed and the various tiny bits scatter and you never get it
back together. When this happened to our Topeak pump we simply
ordered a dual head t avoid further issues.
We get most of our bike-specific tools donated to us by MEC. We
started out with one of their $25 floor pumps and busted that in
fairly short order. We went and bought our own shop quality Topeak,
and aside from the above Smart Head issue it held up longer than I
thought it would. MEC no longer sells Park tools, but use another
company called Filzer. When we requested another pricey pump they
asked to try out the Filzer one as an experiment (we've become their
"tough testers") and aside from the handle coming unglued (it was
taped back together) it has held up well.
For chain tools, we too switched from Park under the advice of using
cheap ones and treating them as disposable. But they are not nice to
use, and most don't have the second slot for pin bumping. So we've
gone back to better ones and try to make sure people use them correctly.
Mark
On 31-Mar-08, at 12:53 PM, Sherief wrote:
Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to
pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage
and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with
Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not
a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools
breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the
nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog,
but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and
even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We
try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do,
etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar
experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically
good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any
recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a
bit of overeager volunteerin g?Best, Sherief _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- bikecollectives.org
With the Park Tools, you can replace just the pins--it's usually much cheaper (and creates less waste!) than buying a whole new tool.
But yes, those are things that break all the time for us as well.
Cheers, Mario Bruzzone Bike Kitchen San Francisco
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
Best, Sherief
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
forgot to mention that I think it's good to loctite (mild) the pins in the park chain tools- keeps them from unthreading and destroying themselves, but still come out super easy w/ 6mm wrench (or is it 7mm?)
josh
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Mario Bruzzone mario.bruzzone@gmail.com wrote:
With the Park Tools, you can replace just the pins--it's usually much cheaper (and creates less waste!) than buying a whole new tool.
But yes, those are things that break all the time for us as well.
Cheers, Mario Bruzzone Bike Kitchen San Francisco
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
Best, Sherief
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
We have a series of Park CT-3 that are on every bench for geared chains and have people borrow a Park CT-7 from the master bench for the 1/8" and 1/2" chains, we just bought pins in bulk and replace them as needed. Prior to that we were thinking of doing the following:
Chain Tool Pin (and other) rental. Where each bench has a chain tool without a pin and a sign instructing them to talk to a core volunteer about using the tool. Which serves two functions:
- No one uses tools that break without instruction. Since they have to get
a pin from a core volunteer, the core volunteer can ask, "have you used this before, and can I show you how?"
- They could "rent" the pin for a buck, and if it comes back in good
condition they get their buck back. If they bust the pin you can use their deposit to buy a new one, however if they return it in working order they get their buck back.
As for shop pumps, we are working towards installing shop air -- no floor pump can withstand the abuse of a shop, especially a community bike shop, and they say that quite clearly in all the distributor catalogs.
BTW, Park Tool will take back broken tools as part of their lifetime guarantee.
Our experiance has been the same as others with regards to the chain tool. We use the park CT-3 and try to make sure that folks know how to use it before doing so. We used to use the cheaper ones, but they broke way to often, and the CT-3 has held up well (we go through about 4-6 pins a year).
Concerning pumps, we've started getting our pumps from REI. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, so when a pump breaks, we take it back and get a new one. Wasteful yes, but when we tried to rebuild and repair pumps, they never lasted much longer. Maybe someday someone will discover the holy grail of pumps, but until then, we're going to continue to use REI...
for 1304bikes, -Doug
Sherief and all-
Not to be tooting corporate horn, but I've yet to see a more durable pump than the Specialized "air tool" floor pump http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqSection.jsp?sid=EquipPumps. They wholesale for 15, sell outright for around 40, and I've pumped so danged many tires with them I can't count (shop use at the commercial operation I wrenched with went into the tens of thousands of hours without a break down- that's pretty burly).
Our Park chainbreaker has withstood some abuse- the trick is to keep it greased, and to be careful when you swap the (replace-able) pin pusher (ours finally cross threaded). You can get extra life out of the replaceable pin pusher tip by filing or bench-grinding down the smushed tip (get it to taper a bit, and it becomes happily self-centering). Should you BEND the tip, you can stick it in a vice and "true it up" again, bending it straight with a pliers.
In general, it pays to pay more up front, especially if stuff's replaceable.
Oh, and you can make presta air-chucks for your compressor (get a Silca brass Presta head, a short section surgical tubing, and connect it to a standard, push-button chuck with some small hose clamps... they are long lasting (and save some pumping effort for 120 psi road tires! make sure you limit out your compressors output!)).
In Cooperation- Pete Morsch, FMCBW www.fmbikeworkshop.org
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
Best, Sherief
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Here at the BikeRoWave, we use Park CT-3's, and CT-7's.Buying the replacement pins in quantities of a dozen at a time.
We use the Silca SuperPista Floor pumps. we have 3, one is usually in back needing a rebuild,(parts are available for replacement), Breakage is often the top hose clip, the gauge(I don't know what the person did to break it), or the gasket. We have a small air compressor for the problem valve stems, like the Airzound horns. Yes parts break, but you maybe able to replace just the bent/broken pieces, of certain tools, like pins for chain tools and bottom bracket tools. We keep the high $$ tools in the back office so the head mechanic must get it for the customer, giving the chance to teach the safe and proper use, and see them used correctly.
Josh's Perfect Advice Tools break. but as to the chain tool and pumps: I like the Park tool (CT-3?- threaded replacable pin). before I hand someone a chaintool at the Bikechurch, or use one, I look at two things: spin the handle to see if the pin is bent, and look closely at the end to see iff it's mushroomed. if either is the case, use in that condition can brake the pin or cause it to become stuck in the chain/unthread itself, etc.- all negative situations.
if the pin is mushroomed, grind the edges off to a little bevel. (we have a terrible little hand crank grinder for such tasks). If it's bent, replace it.
as far as pumps go. . . silca pumps are the most durable and most servicable. generally, the presta chuck is ruined by folks shoving it on a schrader valve- clear labeling and user education is the answer. I am generally responsible (as oposed to irresponsible) for the pumps here, and they need frequent maintenence- my complaint is about the lack of good schrader chucks.
josh
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
Best, Sherief
Can we have this email refined to a report!!!! I think its all important stuff, no time for me to review it all myself.
Good chat thou
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Gern Blanston getgern@gmail.com wrote:
Here at the BikeRoWave, we use Park CT-3's, and CT-7's.Buying the replacement pins in quantities of a dozen at a time.
We use the Silca SuperPista Floor pumps. we have 3, one is usually in back needing a rebuild,(parts are available for replacement), Breakage is often the top hose clip, the gauge(I don't know what the person did to break it), or the gasket. We have a small air compressor for the problem valve stems, like the Airzound horns. Yes parts break, but you maybe able to replace just the bent/broken pieces, of certain tools, like pins for chain tools and bottom bracket tools. We keep the high $$ tools in the back office so the head mechanic must get it for the customer, giving the chance to teach the safe and proper use, and see them used correctly.
Josh's Perfect Advice Tools break. but as to the chain tool and pumps: I like the Park tool (CT-3?- threaded replacable pin). before I hand someone a chaintool at the Bikechurch, or use one, I look at two things: spin the handle to see if the pin is bent, and look closely at the end to see iff it's mushroomed. if either is the case, use in that condition can brake the pin or cause it to become stuck in the chain/unthread itself, etc.- all negative situations.
if the pin is mushroomed, grind the edges off to a little bevel. (we have a terrible little hand crank grinder for such tasks). If it's bent, replace it.
as far as pumps go. . . silca pumps are the most durable and most servicable. generally, the presta chuck is ruined by folks shoving it on a schrader valve- clear labeling and user education is the answer. I am generally responsible (as oposed to irresponsible) for the pumps here, and they need frequent maintenence- my complaint is about the lack of good schrader chucks.
josh
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
This is Sherief from the Austin Yellowbike, and I was hoping to pool the thinktank's experience with shop tools prone to breakage and the like. We're currently having huge issues keeping up with Chain Tools and Presta Valve pumps especially... it feels like not a week goes by without at least one of each of these tools breaking. W/r/t the chain tools, we recently switched from the nicer Park tools to the cheapest we could get out of the catalog, but with the way those break there's effectively no net savings and even when they are functioning the new cheap ones are no good. We try to make sure people know how to use the tools before they do, etc. But my question(s) today is: Do people have any similar experience out there with broken/breakable tools-- specifically good ways to prevent these breakages? Does anyone have any recommendations for good chain tools /PV pumps that can withstand a bit of overeager volunteerin g?
Best, Sherief
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
participants (9)
-
1304bikes -
Geoffrey B -
Gern Blanston -
Jonathan Morrison -
joshua muir -
Mario Bruzzone -
Mark Rehder -
Peter Morsch -
Sherief