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Hello Christopher and Dances with Cars,
This conversation seems like it's moved outside the scope/range of the original question. The Think Tank list can get a little unwieldy in terms of email volume when this happens. Could you perhaps continue the conversation one-on-one, not over the list-serv?
Warm regards, andrea
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 5:09 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
(1) Are you beyond asking for a grant? (2) Are you ready to learn? (3) Are there other options or just the ones you can think of? (4) Are you willing to collaborate to lift up the industry by becoming the ivory tower?
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] What level of repairs at Farmers Market From: DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com Date: Thu, February 26, 2015 6:11 am To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
So quality is only available in the ivory towers of education? Corp interests deeming schools of only qualified students (read money, and likely background of money, tech is very capital intensive, even if Obama's free comments college actually happens it is after all about the American Dream...) with the secrets of their products , like gripshift and patent encumbered stuff, can't tell you, had to sign an nda to get in the door... Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance as I headed to tech school back in the day (early 80's, with liberal arts mostly on the menu.) Head crash. Substance abuse counseling training. Advocacy and systemic change requiring politics... Welding later, but industry and community going towards additive tech (3D printing, CNC, laser cutting, and hacking, cracking, and diy innovation where discipline, obedience and boredom tolerance were what got you thru school but creativity and thinking outside the packaged box.... /Rant On Feb 26, 2015 7:16 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
Good point on professional training Tom. I am promoting even a higher level of service where mechanics are both highly trained in mechanical processes and Efficiency processes. SLOW does not pay DA bills. There is a lot of wasted time in service centers. Some processes can be done in a 10th of the time. Most can be done in a quarter of the time at a higher quality level. This is the generation of education today.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] What level of repairs at Farmers Market From: Thomas Martin thomas.martin6@pcc.edu Date: Wed, February 25, 2015 10:51 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Re: Quality standards of service work:
Level of quality with service provided must be maintained so wheels don't go out of true or adjustments of brakes and other components after it leaves the shop int he first place. It's basic bike shop customer service. If there are boomerang repairs, I think an investment in training of mechanics and service writers needs to happen before service time is given away. And I'd be really surprised that other local non-coop bike shops would allow a climate of boomerang repairs to be present. It's good business to make sure that happens, no matter how the shop is structured or modeled.
Co-ops, DIY skillshare, and non-profit shops really can't afford low service quality levels. In Portland, the Co-ops and non profit street level shops often do a HIGHER quality repair and tune up than the bro-shops filled with SRAM Red and Dura Ace. Unfamiliarity of high end components is an entirely different issue i my mind; there's a lot of expertise to execute on cotter pin boom bikes and old Schwinns. The people with those bikes will pay for good work done; they will be more pissed off when they pay any amount of money on a crappy repair that doesn't address their problem, or makes it worse.
Tom Martin Bike Program Coordinator Portland Community College- Cascade Room SC-03 705 N Killingsworth St Portland, OR 97217
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:47 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
Has anyone thought of doing better labor than a bike shop can provide? Upping the game of quality. True a wheel and two weeks later it is out of true; True, Round and tension the wheel and it will stay true for months if not a year or two. True with a guarantee is upping the game of Quality with a focus on improving the ride experience of cyclist. What do you all think
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] What level of repairs at Farmers Market From: Joshua Goran josh@ohiocitycycles.org Date: Wed, February 25, 2015 2:32 pm To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
For a now defunct start-up project I had a few years ago, we would do chain and cable/housing replacements and true wheels on the bike when I did repairs at a local Farmers Market, and I charged $30/hour + parts at that time, but that is very cheap in hindsight. Basically we'd do up to what a typical shop includes in their 'basic tune up' plus cable and minor accessory installation and flat repairs.
*----------Joshua GoranAdministrator, Ohio City Bicycle Co-op* 1840 Columbus Rd Cleveland, Ohio 44113 216 830 2667 OhioCityCycles.org
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On Feb 27, 2015 8:10 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
(1) Are you beyond asking for a grant?
In other circles, created mini grant process
(2) Are you ready to learn? Sometimes, what's the emotional and physical cost? Organizationally?
(3) Are there other options or just the ones you can think of? Option three, humility
(4) Are you willing to collaborate to lift up the industry by becoming the ivory tower? Closed ended question, idolatry bad
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] What level of repairs at Farmers Market From: DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com Date: Thu, February 26, 2015 6:11 am To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
So quality is only available in the ivory towers of education? Corp interests deeming schools of only qualified students (read money,
and likely background of money, tech is very capital intensive, even if Obama's free comments college actually happens it is after all about the American Dream...) with the secrets of their products , like gripshift and patent encumbered stuff, can't tell you, had to sign an nda to get in the door...
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance as I headed to tech school
back in the day (early 80's, with liberal arts mostly on the menu.)
Head crash. Substance abuse counseling training. Advocacy and systemic change requiring politics... Welding later, but industry and community going towards additive tech
(3D printing, CNC, laser cutting, and hacking, cracking, and diy innovation where discipline, obedience and boredom tolerance were what got you thru school but creativity and thinking outside the packaged box....
/Rant On Feb 26, 2015 7:16 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
Good point on professional training Tom. I am promoting even a higher
level of service where mechanics are both highly trained in mechanical processes and Efficiency processes. SLOW does not pay DA bills. There is a lot of wasted time in service centers. Some processes can be done in a 10th of the time. Most can be done in a quarter of the time at a higher quality level. This is the generation of education today.
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] What level of repairs at Farmers Market From: Thomas Martin thomas.martin6@pcc.edu Date: Wed, February 25, 2015 10:51 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
Re: Quality standards of service work:
Level of quality with service provided must be maintained so wheels
don't go out of true or adjustments of brakes and other components after it leaves the shop int he first place. It's basic bike shop customer service. If there are boomerang repairs, I think an investment in training of mechanics and service writers needs to happen before service time is given away. And I'd be really surprised that other local non-coop bike shops would allow a climate of boomerang repairs to be present. It's good business to make sure that happens, no matter how the shop is structured or modeled.
Co-ops, DIY skillshare, and non-profit shops really can't afford low
service quality levels. In Portland, the Co-ops and non profit street level shops often do a HIGHER quality repair and tune up than the bro-shops filled with SRAM Red and Dura Ace. Unfamiliarity of high end components is an entirely different issue i my mind; there's a lot of expertise to execute on cotter pin boom bikes and old Schwinns. The people with those bikes will pay for good work done; they will be more pissed off when they pay any amount of money on a crappy repair that doesn't address their problem, or makes it worse.
Tom Martin Bike Program Coordinator Portland Community College- Cascade Room SC-03 705 N Killingsworth St Portland, OR 97217
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:47 PM, christopher@holisticcycles.com
wrote:
Has anyone thought of doing better labor than a bike shop can
provide? Upping the game of quality. True a wheel and two weeks later it is out of true; True, Round and tension the wheel and it will stay true for months if not a year or two. True with a guarantee is upping the game of Quality with a focus on improving the ride experience of cyclist. What do you all think
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] What level of repairs at Farmers Market From: Joshua Goran josh@ohiocitycycles.org Date: Wed, February 25, 2015 2:32 pm To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
For a now defunct start-up project I had a few years ago, we would
do chain and cable/housing replacements and true wheels on the bike when I did repairs at a local Farmers Market, and I charged $30/hour + parts at that time, but that is very cheap in hindsight. Basically we'd do up to what a typical shop includes in their 'basic tune up' plus cable and minor accessory installation and flat repairs.
Joshua Goran Administrator, Ohio City Bicycle Co-op 1840 Columbus Rd Cleveland, Ohio 44113 216 830 2667 OhioCityCycles.org ________________________________ ____________________________________
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