www.build-a-bike.com
You know we are doing good when the for-profit takes the idea mainstream. It looks like these folks have a registered trademark on the "Build-A-Bike" name.
Hmmm, I wonder if community bike shops should challenge that trademark? Anyone interested?
Jonathan Morrison wrote:
www.build-a-bike.com http://www.build-a-bike.com/
You know we are doing good when the for-profit takes the idea mainstream. It looks like these folks have a registered trademark on the "Build-A-Bike" name.
you're an attorney at law...let's do it. what do we win?
On 1/13/08, Erik Ryberg ryberg@seanet.com wrote:
Hmmm, I wonder if community bike shops should challenge that trademark? Anyone interested?
Jonathan Morrison wrote:
www.build-a-bike.com http://www.build-a-bike.com/
You know we are doing good when the for-profit takes the idea mainstream. It looks like these folks have a registered trademark on the "Build-A-Bike" name.
-- Erik B. Ryberg Attorney at Law 445 West Simpson Street Tucson, AZ 85701 (520) 622-3333 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
How about we just focus on getting more people on bikes.
Froilan Landeros wrote:
you're an attorney at law...let's do it. what do we win?
On 1/13/08, *Erik Ryberg* <ryberg@seanet.com mailto:ryberg@seanet.com> wrote:
Hmmm, I wonder if community bike shops should challenge that trademark? Anyone interested? Jonathan Morrison wrote: > www.build-a-bike.com <http://www.build-a-bike.com> <http://www.build-a-bike.com/> > > You know we are doing good when the for-profit takes the > idea mainstream. It looks like these folks have a registered trademark > on the "Build-A-Bike" name. -- Erik B. Ryberg Attorney at Law 445 West Simpson Street Tucson, AZ 85701 (520) 622-3333 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org-- froilan landeros
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and ignore whats going on around us? I think not. Onward with the lawsuit!
(i'm kidding. I think it's silly as well)
On 1/13/08, Rich Points rich@richpoints.com wrote:
How about we just focus on getting more people on bikes.
Froilan Landeros wrote:
you're an attorney at law...let's do it. what do we win?
On 1/13/08, Erik Ryberg ryberg@seanet.com wrote:
Hmmm, I wonder if community bike shops should challenge that trademark? Anyone interested?
Jonathan Morrison wrote:
www.build-a-bike.com http://www.build-a-bike.com/
You know we are doing good when the for-profit takes the idea mainstream. It looks like these folks have a registered
trademark
on the "Build-A-Bike" name.
-- Erik B. Ryberg Attorney at Law 445 West Simpson Street Tucson, AZ 85701 (520) 622-3333 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- froilan landeros
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-- Rich Points Community Cycles Director http://CommunityCycles.org Rich@CommunityCycles.org 720-565-6019
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you're an attorney at law...let's do it. what do we win?
Well, all we win is the right to keep calling our build a bike classes "build a bike classes" without fear of lawsuits and threatening cease and desist letters from attorneys for the corporate team-building industry.
I should think that would be worth something, though.
I agree that trademarking a name that is used by so many not-for-profits is a little unsettling. I know nothing about lawsuits (or the law, really) but i do find this trademark offensive.
danielle reCycles bike coOp Arkansas
Erik Ryberg ryberg@seanet.com wrote:
you're an attorney at law...let's do it. what do we win?
Well, all we win is the right to keep calling our build a bike classes "build a bike classes" without fear of lawsuits and threatening cease and desist letters from attorneys for the corporate team-building industry.
I should think that would be worth something, though.
Interesting. It seems that the trademark may be on the full 'Build-A-Bike Workshop' phrase instead of just ending at the word bike. It seems like repairing old bikes as a team gives team building and leadership skills - as that's what the 'Leadership Instituite' is apparently selling with their Build-A-Bike workshop.
Maybe we could rent out our shops to corporate retreat groups, they could just take over our collective decision making roles for a weekend. Or maybe we can just advertise to all our volunteers that they are gaining critical corporate team building and problem solving experience.
Another outreach tool!
-Ed BiciCentro.org
On 1/13/08, eric russelle lrcoop@yahoo.com wrote:
I agree that trademarking a name that is used by so many not-for-profits is a little unsettling. I know nothing about lawsuits (or the law, really) but i do find this trademark offensive.
danielle reCycles bike coOp Arkansas
*Erik Ryberg ryberg@seanet.com* wrote:
you're an attorney at law...let's do it. what do we win?
Well, all we win is the right to keep calling our build a bike classes "build a bike classes" without fear of lawsuits and threatening cease and desist letters from attorneys for the corporate team-building industry.
I should think that would be worth something, though.
-- Erik B. Ryberg Attorney at Law 445 West Simpson Street Tucson, AZ 85701 (520) 622-3333 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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Edward France wrote: | Interesting. It seems that the trademark may be on the full 'Build-A-Bike | Workshop' phrase instead of just ending at the word bike. It seems like | repairing old bikes as a team gives team building and leadership skills - as | that's what the 'Leadership Instituite' is apparently selling with their | Build-A-Bike workshop.
ianal, but as i understand the doctrine of "previous art," you just can't do that. or rather, you can go ahead and register it all you want, but the fact that we've been using it for years--with *lots* of documentation--as well as the fact that we're not competing with them, renders their claim pretty useless.
| Maybe we could rent out our shops to corporate retreat groups, they could | just take over our collective decision making roles for a weekend. Or maybe | we can just advertise to all our volunteers that they are gaining critical | corporate team building and problem solving experience.
phaw. they're corporations that can afford staff team-building retreats. they don't need *my* shop, and my shop don't need their money.
| Another outreach tool!
i guess, but who are you reaching out to, and to what end?
- -bB
Remember to keep at least one or two of your old t shirts, literature ,hand outs that has this now trademarked name , it will help years down the line if they try and give the old cease and desist order. Canoe clubs across the world are trying to fight the Ironman people , seems the Ironman Gatorade people think they now have the only legal use of the word Ironman in advertising. Fact is outrigger canoe races and some aussy surf races were using the term Ironman for many years before the Gatorade trademark. The clubs are looking for old t shirts and race awards, race advertisement, trophy, from the pre trademarked era in order to prove it was in common usage before they trademarked it. Just something to keep in mind, when cleaning and tossing stuff .
Hi Mike, Our bike projects are very different from yours. I would like to get off your mailing list. Can you help. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: mike piedell To: The Think Tank Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] The Build-A-Bike Team Building Workshop
Remember to keep at least one or two of your old t shirts, literature ,hand outs that has this now trademarked name , it will help years down the line if they try and give the old cease and desist order. Canoe clubs across the world are trying to fight the Ironman people , seems the Ironman Gatorade people think they now have the only legal use of the word Ironman in advertising. Fact is outrigger canoe races and some aussy surf races were using the term Ironman for many years before the Gatorade trademark. The clubs are looking for old t shirts and race awards, race advertisement, trophy, from the pre trademarked era in order to prove it was in common usage before they trademarked it. Just something to keep in mind, when cleaning and tossing stuff .
http://stopdangerousdriving.wordpress.com/
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rob,
*every* single email that passes through this list has a link at the bottom for you to unsubscribe yourself. use it; this barrage of emails is just annoying.
and in case you have trouble with "link" or "bottom," here it is: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... (you click on that, see.)
- -bB
ROBERT BURCHELL wrote: | Hi Mike, Our bike projects are very different from yours. I would like to get off your mailing list. Can you help. Thanks, Bob | ----- Original Message ----- | From: mike piedell | To: The Think Tank | Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 7:16 PM | Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] The Build-A-Bike Team Building Workshop | | | Remember to keep at least one or two of your old t shirts, literature ,hand outs that has this now trademarked name , it will help years down the line if they try and give the old cease and desist order. Canoe clubs across the world are trying to fight the Ironman people , seems the Ironman Gatorade people think they now have the only legal use of the word Ironman in advertising. Fact is outrigger canoe races and some aussy surf races were using the term Ironman for many years before the Gatorade trademark. The clubs are looking for old t shirts and race awards, race advertisement, trophy, from the pre trademarked era in order to prove it was in common usage before they trademarked it. Just something to keep in mind, when cleaning and tossing stuff . | | | http://stopdangerousdriving.wordpress.com/ | | | | | | |
| | | _______________________________________________ | Thethinktank mailing list | Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org | http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... | | | |
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'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.' -h.l. mencken
Just to clarify on my earlier point...
I was attempting to make a point NOT about trademarks but about how
funny it is that a leadership retreat would 'novely' do something we work on as standard faire. I was not literal in that we should rent our shops to corporate groups, but instead suggest that we should be proud that the way we operate is being emulated for biz world interpersonal education. I feel that since collective working skills seem to be valued as a mainstream workplace tool, we should be even more proud of the experience our shop provides to our volunteers. Kids we work with and who work with us are getting workplace experience corporate groups have to pay up the nose for.
Attacking my point as corporate sellout-ish feels offensive to me, and inappropriate to post anonymously (undercovercop?) on this list serve.
As for protecting ourselves and shop names from potential lawsuit or wrongful taking for private interest use, I strongly recommend registering your 'Fictitious Business name' ( I don't know why they call it that, but..). This can be done inexpensively (like $50) with your local state government, and having this gives your group control of the name and protection from future misuse or evidence that you didn't infringe someone else's trademark if someone is suing or trying to make you change your name. Doing this for terms we use, like Youth Earn-A-Bike might be excessive, but retaining old brochures and literature is indeed a great idea to protect those terms.
I'll try to write out Fictitious Biz name registering on the wiki.
Ed Bici Centro
On 1/13/08, An Undercover Cop undercovercop@riseup.net wrote:
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Edward France wrote: | Interesting. It seems that the trademark may be on the full 'Build-A-Bike | Workshop' phrase instead of just ending at the word bike. It seems like | repairing old bikes as a team gives team building and leadership skills - as | that's what the 'Leadership Instituite' is apparently selling with their | Build-A-Bike workshop.
ianal, but as i understand the doctrine of "previous art," you just can't do that. or rather, you can go ahead and register it all you want, but the fact that we've been using it for years--with *lots* of documentation--as well as the fact that we're not competing with them, renders their claim pretty useless.
| Maybe we could rent out our shops to corporate retreat groups, they could | just take over our collective decision making roles for a weekend. Or maybe | we can just advertise to all our volunteers that they are gaining critical | corporate team building and problem solving experience.
phaw. they're corporations that can afford staff team-building retreats. they don't need *my* shop, and my shop don't need their money.
| Another outreach tool!
i guess, but who are you reaching out to, and to what end?
- -bB
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
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| Attacking my point as corporate sellout-ish feels offensive to me, and | inappropriate to post anonymously (undercovercop?) on this list serve.
yo, ed, sorry for the offense. apparently i've been a little punchier lately than usual. i *did* take you at face value in responding to your post, and i *do* have serious reservation with corporate-for-profit-collaboration. every shop has its own situation and has to work out the compromises it is and isn't willing to make for itself. i can't imagine offering the sweat of my brow to a corporate team-building retreat. huh, guess my knee's still jerking a bit. sorry.
as for the email address, well, it's a bit of a joke... riseup.net being know for hosting radical websites and giving email services to various assorted radicals, i find it hilarious to have undercovercop@riseup.net.
name's ben. i help organize the chicago community bike project. if you need me, i'll be in the bathroom, extracting my foot from my mouth.
- -bB
'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.' -h.l. mencken
Seriously, I might start a business hosting bike building for corporate executives. It could make the world a better place, especially my world, where I need to make money to support my special needs daughter. Let the Marxists and deconstructionalist sneer and give condescending remarks. I do not care. If a sense of self righteous self satisfaction makes you ride harder or faster, go ahead! Here, Ill get you started, I WEAR DOCKERS! Go to town! How much should (could ) a person charge to help a bunch of CEOs get along well and build some bikes? Sounds like a nice way to spend the day to me, Art
I took my daughter out for a ride today. Nice Winter ride, Ohm Shanti Shanti Shanti snow
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:07:27 -0600> From: undercovercop@riseup.net> To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] The Build-A-Bike Team Building Workshop> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----> Hash: SHA1> > | Attacking my point as corporate sellout-ish feels offensive to me, and> | inappropriate to post anonymously (undercovercop?) on this list serve.> > yo, ed, sorry for the offense. apparently i've been a little punchier> lately than usual. i *did* take you at face value in responding to your> post, and i *do* have serious reservation with> corporate-for-profit-collaboration. every shop has its own situation> and has to work out the compromises it is and isn't willing to make for> itself. i can't imagine offering the sweat of my brow to a corporate> team-building retreat. huh, guess my knee's still jerking a bit. sorry.> > as for the email address, well, it's a bit of a joke... riseup.net being> know for hosting radical websites and giving email services to various> assorted radicals, i find it hilarious to have undercovercop@riseup.net.> > name's ben. i help organize the chicago community bike project. if you> need me, i'll be in the bathroom, extracting my foot from my mouth.> > - -bB> - --> 'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist> the black flag, and begin slitting throats.'> -h.l. mencken> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)> > iD8DBQFHitFFSfGaTCxqHXERAvwlAJ9r3Q9r2CWzz5gBIVIctpX7SzmIZACbBl3u> c4G+ew4w3SQ4igpEwrT+XlQ=> =o9Cz> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----> _______________________________________________> Thethinktank mailing list> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
if you could get that together and actually get executives(not the average large business worker who may already have the need for a bike and have the mentality to see its benefits) to come into a workshop and get greasy, i would commend you. in a lot of ways people have an antiquated view of class struggle, there is a need now to effect change on all levels. i would love to see executives get rid of their hummers that almost run me over.
From: letlovein2@msn.com To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] The Build-A-Bike Team Building Workshop
Seriously, I might start a business hosting bike building for corporate executives. It could make the world a better place, especially my world, where I need to make money to support my special needs daughter. Let the Marxists and deconstructionalist sneer and give condescending remarks. I do not care. If a sense of self righteous self satisfaction makes you ride harder or faster, go ahead! Here, Ill get you started, I WEAR DOCKERS! Go to town!
How much should (could ) a person charge to help a bunch of CEOs get along well and build some bikes? Sounds like a nice way to spend the day to me, Art
I took my daughter out for a ride today. Nice Winter ride, Ohm Shanti Shanti Shanti snow
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:07:27 -0600 From: undercovercop@riseup.net To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] The Build-A-Bike Team Building Workshop
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| Attacking my point as corporate sellout-ish feels offensive to me, and | inappropriate to post anonymously (undercovercop?) on this list serve.
yo, ed, sorry for the offense. apparently i've been a little punchier lately than usual. i *did* take you at face value in responding to your post, and i *do* have serious reservation with corporate-for-profit-collaboration. every shop has its own situation and has to work out the compromises it is and isn't willing to make for itself. i can't imagine offering the sweat of my brow to a corporate team-building retreat. huh, guess my knee's still jerking a bit. sorry.
as for the email address, well, it's a bit of a joke... riseup.net being know for hosting radical websites and giving email services to various assorted radicals, i find it hilarious to have undercovercop@riseup.net.
name's ben. i help organize the chicago community bike project. if you need me, i'll be in the bathroom, extracting my foot from my mouth.
- -bB
'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.' -h.l. mencken -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
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Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
We rent our space out for University of Utah continuing education classes. Using shop down time for corporate retreats not only would put some more money in our pocket (and in turn fund our other programs) -- but it would revive a childhood love affair with bikes that some execs might have forgotten. If you agree or don't agree with corporations -- bike friendly corporations are better than anti-bike corporations.
I wonder if the leadership institute would partner with community bike shops as space rentals? Obviously they will have some kind of aesthetic expectation, but it is worth a shot.
Greetings
NBW has worked with this kind of project before, and would again if there is an event like this again in the Philly area. If you can cut a deal with them that benefits your agency, I would recommend it if this company or something similar is doing something like this in your city--it's a potential source of bikes, money, employment for our youth program graduates and fun for everyone. The jobs we have done already took place in conference centers or hotel ballrooms--our shop is way too small, and, as an example of what Jonathan pointed out, would have probably been below the "aesthetic expectation" of the client. NBW's role has been to backcheck the bikes that were assembled by workshop participants. We also sold them spare parts that they needed and charged them for labor and parts on bikes that had to be taken back to our shop--any set of 60-100 new bikes is going to have a couple of examples with faulty, missing or broken parts.
As for the issue of the name, of course it pisses me off. I would recommend reserving the rights to every piece of intellectual property you create at your agency. NBW does this. It doesn't mean that you can't share it-we do-it just means that if someone takes it and starts to try and make money with it you can cry "foul."
Good luck with whatever your diverse agencies decide to do with this kind of thing!
Andy
Jonathan Morrison wrote:
We rent our space out for University of Utah continuing education classes. Using shop down time for corporate retreats not only would put some more money in our pocket (and in turn fund our other programs) -- but it would revive a childhood love affair with bikes that some execs might have forgotten. If you agree or don't agree with corporations -- bike friendly corporations are better than anti-bike corporations.
I wonder if the leadership institute would partner with community bike shops as space rentals? Obviously they will have some kind of aesthetic expectation, but it is worth a shot.
-- Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org http://www.slcbikecollective.org
fHi Erik, Our bike projects are very much different from yours. Please remove me from your email list. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Ryberg" ryberg@seanet.com To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] The Build-A-Bike Team Building Workshop
Hmmm, I wonder if community bike shops should challenge that trademark? Anyone interested?
Jonathan Morrison wrote:
www.build-a-bike.com http://www.build-a-bike.com/
You know we are doing good when the for-profit takes the idea mainstream. It looks like these folks have a registered trademark on the "Build-A-Bike" name.
-- Erik B. Ryberg Attorney at Law 445 West Simpson Street Tucson, AZ 85701 (520) 622-3333 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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ROBERT BURCHELL wrote: | fHi Erik, Our bike projects are very much different from yours. Please | remove me from your email list. Thanks, Bob
d.i.y., bob:
| _______________________________________________ | Thethinktank mailing list | Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org | http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o... |
- -bB
'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.' -h.l. mencken
participants (13)
-
An Undercover Cop -
Andy Dyson -
CLINTON BIGGS -
Edward France -
eric russelle -
Erik Ryberg -
Froilan Landeros -
Jonathan Morrison -
Jonathan Morrison -
Justin Pogge -
mike piedell -
Rich Points -
ROBERT BURCHELL