Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Hey everyone,
I wanted to chime in here as this issue is important to me.
At Bike Farm (www.bikefarm.org) we use Square to take debit/credit cards via smartphone. It is by far the cheapest and easiest to use with very low fees. The barrier to entry is basically training your volunteers and obtaining a smart phone. Signing up is free, there's no monthly rate and they mail you a card reader for no cost.
I wish we had an iPad in our shop as Square's point of sale software is so elegant. Many more small businesses in addition to non-profits are moving to Square. Their iPad app works with POS hardware (receipt printer, cash drawer), does inventory management, records customer info and even tracks cash payments. Even the cost of an iPad (used or new) is cheap compared to even the most basic POS system and the software is free. MerchantOS is a great alternative for shops that already have merchant accounts/payment processors and can afford their monthly fees.
One downside to Square is that they don't have an API for rolling your own integrations. However, most POS software doesn't either. Using Square does not require a merchant account which mitigates the iPad cost issue in my opinion. New non-profits or small co-ops probably couldn't get a decent merchant account with affordable rate anyway.
To those working on this software, I don't understand the scope of this project. There's already a ton of great options out there for every feature mentioned. What's the unmet need this software will help with? I would be inclined to help if I knew a little more about the overall goals.
Thanks, Frank
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:23 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I have a droid and use square
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software From: momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org Date: Wed, July 04, 2012 12:08 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
I wonder if we can get a spread sheet of the data that Square creates. It might be useful to develop an app that takes the data from square, and transforms it into useful data for bike collectives. I've had a look at their web page https://squareup.com/register
It's unfortunate that you must have an ipad to use Square as a POS.
The data base appears to collect this info: date, product, price, payment method, discounts,
i've got a theory that one can use a POS for membership data base, as well as volunteer data base. But i'm not sure if Square collects data about the customer. That would be necessary. I like that you can have cash or check or credit card transactions stored. I just wish you could also have it on a desktop. A lot of our volunteers are against the use of an ipad in the shop and I understand. It sends an odd message to the people who come into the shop for help. We're already in danger of adding to the gentrification of our neighborhood, the last thing we need is is fancy chrome apple products to alienate people even further...
Godwin,
I of course support you in your effort to develop this web based app. Hopefully you/we can think of a simple solution that is flexible. I'm terrible at naming things... So i've got no suggestions there. But I've forwarded on your email to my developer friends. I'm sure we can add some sections in. I assume you'll get it up on github?
cool
we'll talk soon -m
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan.morrison@gmail.com wrote:
If you haven't checked out Square, you really should. It is cheap and simple, and that might be enough for most shops.
https://squareup.com/?gclid=CJfQsMOu_rACFQkZQgodBEtl8A#register
At least it might provide some ideas...
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com wrote:
I’ve also had reservations about going with a web-based system but in the end I think it’s the most adaptable solution. I’m not worrying about hardware integration for now, I’m pretty sure anything is possible but I think that would be far down the list of requirements for most shops that need free software.
It will be open source and modular, so there won’t be a single point person for the entire system, I’ll do my best to set up a good environment for users to interact with the developers and for developers to provide documentation. This is a bit of an experiment but I have far more faith in open and crowd sourcing technologies than I do having a long term individual or group in charge (including myself).
Thanks! .g
From: Jonathan Morrison Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 3:49:13 PM
To: The Think Tank Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Godwin,
Will it be able to swipe credit card? Interface with a cash drawer? Or scan a UPC? My concern with any web-based system is that you don't have access to the necessary lower level hardware of a useful POS system.
Also, how much will you be charging for tech support, or what level of on-going support can users expect? Or will use be at your own risk with no implied support?
Name Suggestion: PIF - Pedaling/Paying It Forward
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Ryan Sharpe sharpe@sacbikekitchen.org wrote:
At the risk of being too family-unfriendly, gratuitously offensive to Godwin's herculean task, and over-aware of the cobbled-together nature of some of our various operations, I'd be tickled if it were named "That POS".
--Ryan S.
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, summitcyclingcenter@yahoo.com summitcyclingcenter@yahoo.com wrote:
I Appreciate what you are doing. Name-I suggest Velocomp POS.
Sent from my HTC EVO Design™ 4G from Boost Mobile
----- Reply message ----- From: "Godwin !" goodgodwin@hotmail.com To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: [TheThinkTank] Shop software Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:50 pm
Trying to squeeze in the extra time this week to open up to developers soon but first:
Non-technical
Nominate a name!
Right now the code name I'm using is 'Samara' after the fruit that a maple tree produces but I'd like to hear better ideas if anyone has them (and maybe get some sort of consensus)
Will my shop / organization be able to use it?
Yes. The intention is to make everything completely customizable so that it can work with the way your organization does, although I'm not going to promote it over any of the other options It will be web-based and (if required) compatible with Wordpress, Joomla, and Drupal and eventually hopefully IPad and Android. Setting it up to work offline will also be possible.
What will it do?
The focus at the beginning is to create a point of sale system, after that I'd like to implement other features from news feeds to keep everyone informed to budget planning and audit modules (everything will be optional) Whatever else you can dream of and find someone to help build
Why are you doing this?
To create a common tool that will work for everyone's needs, so that we can combine our efforts where we can and diverge when we need to Because I like software development and especially interesting projects Not to overshadow other people's efforts such as freehub
When will it be ready?
No clue. I've made a number of promises in the past but I realized that I really need to stop making them, we all know what volunteering is like Don't wait for it if you need something now, there's lots of other tools out there and if you eventually want to switch we may be able to work together to get that done. Check out: http://erply.com/, http://www.merchantos.com/, and of course https://github.com/asalant/freehub/wiki/
How to get involved
GIVE IT A NAME! - It's likely that your shop name will be more prominent (if this name is even visible at all) but it would be nice to have something to call it when downloading or when talking amongst ourselves
Design a logo - You might want to wait for the name
Otherwise wait for my next email (but don't hold your breath), I'll be setting up a development environment so that people can jump on as they can. We'll be more in need of experienced PHP developers in the beginning stages to round out the framework, less experienced developers can hop on in the later stages to build modules and themes.
Feel free to send questions or feedback (critical or otherwise) directly to me if you'd like, .godwin
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http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen http://sacbikekitchen.org/ 1915 I Street, Midtown Sacramento Open Tu 6-9p, We 6-9p, Th 6-9p, Fr 10a-2p (kids 6-8p), Sa 12-4p
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http://www.ipadenclosures.com/
This company offers secure enclosures for the ipad, i am sure one could be made too -- if not for security's sake, but just to hide the fact you are using an ipad.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Frank frank@bikefarm.org wrote:
Hey everyone,
I wanted to chime in here as this issue is important to me.
At Bike Farm (www.bikefarm.org) we use Square to take debit/credit cards via smartphone. It is by far the cheapest and easiest to use with very low fees. The barrier to entry is basically training your volunteers and obtaining a smart phone. Signing up is free, there's no monthly rate and they mail you a card reader for no cost.
I wish we had an iPad in our shop as Square's point of sale software is so elegant. Many more small businesses in addition to non-profits are moving to Square. Their iPad app works with POS hardware (receipt printer, cash drawer), does inventory management, records customer info and even tracks cash payments. Even the cost of an iPad (used or new) is cheap compared to even the most basic POS system and the software is free. MerchantOS is a great alternative for shops that already have merchant accounts/payment processors and can afford their monthly fees.
One downside to Square is that they don't have an API for rolling your own integrations. However, most POS software doesn't either. Using Square does not require a merchant account which mitigates the iPad cost issue in my opinion. New non-profits or small co-ops probably couldn't get a decent merchant account with affordable rate anyway.
To those working on this software, I don't understand the scope of this project. There's already a ton of great options out there for every feature mentioned. What's the unmet need this software will help with? I would be inclined to help if I knew a little more about the overall goals.
Thanks, Frank
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:23 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I have a droid and use square
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software From: momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org Date: Wed, July 04, 2012 12:08 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
I wonder if we can get a spread sheet of the data that Square creates.
It
might be useful to develop an app that takes the data from square, and transforms it into useful data for bike collectives. I've had a look at their web page https://squareup.com/register
It's unfortunate that you must have an ipad to use Square as a POS.
The data base appears to collect this info: date, product, price, payment method, discounts,
i've got a theory that one can use a POS for membership data base, as
well
as volunteer data base. But i'm not sure if Square collects data about
the
customer. That would be necessary. I like that you can have cash or
check
or credit card transactions stored. I just wish you could also have it
on a
desktop. A lot of our volunteers are against the use of an ipad in the
shop
and I understand. It sends an odd message to the people who come into
the
shop for help. We're already in danger of adding to the gentrification
of
our neighborhood, the last thing we need is is fancy chrome apple
products
to alienate people even further...
Godwin,
I of course support you in your effort to develop this web based app. Hopefully you/we can think of a simple solution that is flexible. I'm terrible at naming things... So i've got no suggestions there. But I've forwarded on your email to my developer friends. I'm sure we can add
some
sections in. I assume you'll get it up on github?
cool
we'll talk soon -m
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan.morrison@gmail.com wrote:
If you haven't checked out Square, you really should. It is cheap and simple, and that might be enough for most shops.
https://squareup.com/?gclid=CJfQsMOu_rACFQkZQgodBEtl8A#register
At least it might provide some ideas...
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com
wrote:
I’ve also had reservations about going with a web-based system but in
the
end I think it’s the most adaptable solution. I’m not worrying about hardware integration for now, I’m pretty sure anything is possible but
I
think that would be far down the list of requirements for most shops
that
need free software.
It will be open source and modular, so there won’t be a single point person for the entire system, I’ll do my best to set up a good
environment
for users to interact with the developers and for developers to provide documentation. This is a bit of an experiment but I have far more
faith in
open and crowd sourcing technologies than I do having a long term
individual
or group in charge (including myself).
Thanks! .g
From: Jonathan Morrison Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 3:49:13 PM
To: The Think Tank Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Godwin,
Will it be able to swipe credit card? Interface with a cash drawer?
Or
scan a UPC? My concern with any web-based system is that you don't
have
access to the necessary lower level hardware of a useful POS system.
Also, how much will you be charging for tech support, or what level of on-going support can users expect? Or will use be at your own risk
with no
implied support?
Name Suggestion: PIF - Pedaling/Paying It Forward
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Ryan Sharpe <sharpe@sacbikekitchen.org
wrote:
At the risk of being too family-unfriendly, gratuitously offensive to Godwin's herculean task, and over-aware of the cobbled-together
nature of
some of our various operations, I'd be tickled if it were named "That
POS".
--Ryan S.
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, summitcyclingcenter@yahoo.com summitcyclingcenter@yahoo.com wrote:
I Appreciate what you are doing. Name-I suggest Velocomp POS.
Sent from my HTC EVO Design™ 4G from Boost Mobile
----- Reply message ----- From: "Godwin !" goodgodwin@hotmail.com To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: [TheThinkTank] Shop software Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:50 pm
Trying to squeeze in the extra time this week to open up to
developers
soon but first:
Non-technical
Nominate a name!
Right now the code name I'm using is 'Samara' after the fruit that a maple tree produces but I'd like to hear better ideas if anyone has
them
(and maybe get some sort of consensus)
Will my shop / organization be able to use it?
Yes. The intention is to make everything completely customizable so that it can work with the way your organization does, although I'm
not going
to promote it over any of the other options It will be web-based and (if required) compatible with Wordpress, Joomla, and Drupal and eventually hopefully IPad and Android.
Setting it up
to work offline will also be possible.
What will it do?
The focus at the beginning is to create a point of sale system, after that I'd like to implement other features from news feeds to keep
everyone
informed to budget planning and audit modules (everything will be
optional)
Whatever else you can dream of and find someone to help build
Why are you doing this?
To create a common tool that will work for everyone's needs, so that
we
can combine our efforts where we can and diverge when we need to Because I like software development and especially interesting
projects
Not to overshadow other people's efforts such as freehub
When will it be ready?
No clue. I've made a number of promises in the past but I realized
that
I really need to stop making them, we all know what volunteering is
like
Don't wait for it if you need something now, there's lots of other tools out there and if you eventually want to switch we may be able
to work
together to get that done. Check out: http://erply.com/, http://www.merchantos.com/, and of course https://github.com/asalant/freehub/wiki/
How to get involved
GIVE IT A NAME! - It's likely that your shop name will be more prominent (if this name is even visible at all) but it would be nice
to have
something to call it when downloading or when talking amongst
ourselves
Design a logo - You might want to wait for the name
Otherwise wait for my next email (but don't hold your breath), I'll
be
setting up a development environment so that people can jump on as
they can.
We'll be more in need of experienced PHP developers in the beginning
stages
to round out the framework, less experienced developers can hop on
in the
later stages to build modules and themes.
Feel free to send questions or feedback (critical or otherwise) directly to me if you'd like, .godwin
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen http://sacbikekitchen.org/ 1915 I Street, Midtown Sacramento Open Tu 6-9p, We 6-9p, Th 6-9p, Fr 10a-2p (kids 6-8p), Sa 12-4p
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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Ok, I'll try to answer this one in case anyone else is concerned and not finding the motives clear, but I'm really cautioning against more discussion on this topic, I feel it's still a little early for most of this and people who are not interested are likely getting annoyed. The problem as I see it is really three-foldIntegration: you're right in saying that there is a ton of great software out there already, problem is that it takes a ton of software to get what needs to get done done and requires a lot more work than should be required. Hopefully new shops won't have to waste time trying to research tools and processes but instead be able to download a package and get down to business much more quickly and efficiently.Customization: our organizations are generally vary quite a bit from one to another but are often even more varied from the norm of what most people design software for, particularly for-profit models. We often need to keep more details records to apply for grants and we often offer services which are not considered when creating software for average for-profit models (think about the bike shares that many of us offer or the fact that many of us are membership based and have different rules around that). With software which is owned and created by our community, we have the potential to get what each of us needs without compromise.Cost: The Bike Farm and other fairly established shops are in a very lucky position, you can afford things. You can afford things that many other shops, especially startups cannot such as sophisticated software. Many organizations which I have spoken to are still using spreadsheets to record data. Please keep in mind that this discussion on POS systems and hardware is somewhat of a tangent from this discussion, but again shops like yours that can afford to use the Square are going to benefit from this the least, and also keep in mind that money tracking would hopefully be only one small part of the system in the end. Momoko: I'm designing it so that everything should easily be accessed as a service so it can be ported to a Java or C# application for example. PHP is my choice because I aim it to be distributable and it is the most common and often cheapest to get hosting for. .godwin
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:21:09 -0700 From: frank@bikefarm.org To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Hey everyone,
I wanted to chime in here as this issue is important to me.
At Bike Farm (www.bikefarm.org) we use Square to take debit/credit cards via smartphone. It is by far the cheapest and easiest to use with very low fees. The barrier to entry is basically training your volunteers and obtaining a smart phone. Signing up is free, there's no monthly rate and they mail you a card reader for no cost.
I wish we had an iPad in our shop as Square's point of sale software is so elegant. Many more small businesses in addition to non-profits are moving to Square. Their iPad app works with POS hardware (receipt printer, cash drawer), does inventory management, records customer info and even tracks cash payments. Even the cost of an iPad (used or new) is cheap compared to even the most basic POS system and the software is free. MerchantOS is a great alternative for shops that already have merchant accounts/payment processors and can afford their monthly fees.
One downside to Square is that they don't have an API for rolling your own integrations. However, most POS software doesn't either. Using Square does not require a merchant account which mitigates the iPad cost issue in my opinion. New non-profits or small co-ops probably couldn't get a decent merchant account with affordable rate anyway.
To those working on this software, I don't understand the scope of this project. There's already a ton of great options out there for every feature mentioned. What's the unmet need this software will help with? I would be inclined to help if I knew a little more about the overall goals.
Thanks, Frank
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:23 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I have a droid and use square
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software From: momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org Date: Wed, July 04, 2012 12:08 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
I wonder if we can get a spread sheet of the data that Square creates. It might be useful to develop an app that takes the data from square, and transforms it into useful data for bike collectives. I've had a look at their web page https://squareup.com/register
It's unfortunate that you must have an ipad to use Square as a POS.
The data base appears to collect this info: date, product, price, payment method, discounts,
i've got a theory that one can use a POS for membership data base, as well as volunteer data base. But i'm not sure if Square collects data about the customer. That would be necessary. I like that you can have cash or check or credit card transactions stored. I just wish you could also have it on a desktop. A lot of our volunteers are against the use of an ipad in the shop and I understand. It sends an odd message to the people who come into the shop for help. We're already in danger of adding to the gentrification of our neighborhood, the last thing we need is is fancy chrome apple products to alienate people even further...
Godwin,
I of course support you in your effort to develop this web based app. Hopefully you/we can think of a simple solution that is flexible. I'm terrible at naming things... So i've got no suggestions there. But I've forwarded on your email to my developer friends. I'm sure we can add some sections in. I assume you'll get it up on github?
cool
we'll talk soon -m
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan.morrison@gmail.com wrote:
If you haven't checked out Square, you really should. It is cheap and simple, and that might be enough for most shops.
https://squareup.com/?gclid=CJfQsMOu_rACFQkZQgodBEtl8A#register
At least it might provide some ideas...
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com wrote:
I’ve also had reservations about going with a web-based system but in the end I think it’s the most adaptable solution. I’m not worrying about hardware integration for now, I’m pretty sure anything is possible but I think that would be far down the list of requirements for most shops that need free software.
It will be open source and modular, so there won’t be a single point person for the entire system, I’ll do my best to set up a good environment for users to interact with the developers and for developers to provide documentation. This is a bit of an experiment but I have far more faith in open and crowd sourcing technologies than I do having a long term individual or group in charge (including myself).
Thanks! .g
From: Jonathan Morrison Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 3:49:13 PM
To: The Think Tank Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Godwin,
Will it be able to swipe credit card? Interface with a cash drawer? Or scan a UPC? My concern with any web-based system is that you don't have access to the necessary lower level hardware of a useful POS system.
Also, how much will you be charging for tech support, or what level of on-going support can users expect? Or will use be at your own risk with no implied support?
Name Suggestion: PIF - Pedaling/Paying It Forward
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Ryan Sharpe sharpe@sacbikekitchen.org wrote:
At the risk of being too family-unfriendly, gratuitously offensive to Godwin's herculean task, and over-aware of the cobbled-together nature of some of our various operations, I'd be tickled if it were named "That POS".
--Ryan S.
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, summitcyclingcenter@yahoo.com summitcyclingcenter@yahoo.com wrote:
I Appreciate what you are doing. Name-I suggest Velocomp POS.
Sent from my HTC EVO Design™ 4G from Boost Mobile
----- Reply message ----- From: "Godwin !" goodgodwin@hotmail.com To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: [TheThinkTank] Shop software Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:50 pm
Trying to squeeze in the extra time this week to open up to developers soon but first:
Non-technical
Nominate a name!
Right now the code name I'm using is 'Samara' after the fruit that a maple tree produces but I'd like to hear better ideas if anyone has them (and maybe get some sort of consensus)
Will my shop / organization be able to use it?
Yes. The intention is to make everything completely customizable so that it can work with the way your organization does, although I'm not going to promote it over any of the other options It will be web-based and (if required) compatible with Wordpress, Joomla, and Drupal and eventually hopefully IPad and Android. Setting it up to work offline will also be possible.
What will it do?
The focus at the beginning is to create a point of sale system, after that I'd like to implement other features from news feeds to keep everyone informed to budget planning and audit modules (everything will be optional) Whatever else you can dream of and find someone to help build
Why are you doing this?
To create a common tool that will work for everyone's needs, so that we can combine our efforts where we can and diverge when we need to Because I like software development and especially interesting projects Not to overshadow other people's efforts such as freehub
When will it be ready?
No clue. I've made a number of promises in the past but I realized that I really need to stop making them, we all know what volunteering is like Don't wait for it if you need something now, there's lots of other tools out there and if you eventually want to switch we may be able to work together to get that done. Check out: http://erply.com/, http://www.merchantos.com/, and of course https://github.com/asalant/freehub/wiki/
How to get involved
GIVE IT A NAME! - It's likely that your shop name will be more prominent (if this name is even visible at all) but it would be nice to have something to call it when downloading or when talking amongst ourselves
Design a logo - You might want to wait for the name
Otherwise wait for my next email (but don't hold your breath), I'll be setting up a development environment so that people can jump on as they can. We'll be more in need of experienced PHP developers in the beginning stages to round out the framework, less experienced developers can hop on in the later stages to build modules and themes.
Feel free to send questions or feedback (critical or otherwise) directly to me if you'd like, .godwin
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-- Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen http://sacbikekitchen.org/ 1915 I Street, Midtown Sacramento Open Tu 6-9p, We 6-9p, Th 6-9p, Fr 10a-2p (kids 6-8p), Sa 12-4p
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Ok, so doing this over the thinktank doesn't really work. I created a little voting app to let anyone interested vote on the name and add more possible names to that list: http://drupal.thegodwin.ca/software. If you have another idea for a name, get on there quick to let more people vote on it. There's a long description of the app, ability to comment, and email list for updates there too.Thanks!.godwin
From: goodgodwin@hotmail.com To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:58:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Ok, I'll try to answer this one in case anyone else is concerned and not finding the motives clear, but I'm really cautioning against more discussion on this topic, I feel it's still a little early for most of this and people who are not interested are likely getting annoyed. The problem as I see it is really three-foldIntegration: you're right in saying that there is a ton of great software out there already, problem is that it takes a ton of software to get what needs to get done done and requires a lot more work than should be required. Hopefully new shops won't have to waste time trying to research tools and processes but instead be able to download a package and get down to business much more quickly and efficiently.Customization: our organizations are generally vary quite a bit from one to another but are often even more varied from the norm of what most people design software for, particularly for-profit models. We often need to keep more details records to apply for grants and we often offer services which are not considered when creating software for average for-profit models (think about the bike shares that many of us offer or the fact that many of us are membership based and have different rules around that). With software which is owned and created by our community, we have the potential to get what each of us needs without compromise.Cost: The Bike Farm and other fairly established shops are in a very lucky position, you can afford things. You can afford things that many other shops, especially startups cannot such as sophisticated software. Many organizations which I have spoken to are still using spreadsheets to record data. Please keep in mind that this discussion on POS systems and hardware is somewhat of a tangent from this discussion, but again shops like yours that can afford to use the Square are going to benefit from this the least, and also keep in mind that money tracking would hopefully be only one small part of the system in the end. Momoko: I'm designing it so that everything should easily be accessed as a service so it can be ported to a Java or C# application for example. PHP is my choice because I aim it to be distributable and it is the most common and often cheapest to get hosting for. .godwin
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:21:09 -0700 From: frank@bikefarm.org To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Hey everyone,
I wanted to chime in here as this issue is important to me.
At Bike Farm (www.bikefarm.org) we use Square to take debit/credit cards via smartphone. It is by far the cheapest and easiest to use with very low fees. The barrier to entry is basically training your volunteers and obtaining a smart phone. Signing up is free, there's no monthly rate and they mail you a card reader for no cost.
I wish we had an iPad in our shop as Square's point of sale software is so elegant. Many more small businesses in addition to non-profits are moving to Square. Their iPad app works with POS hardware (receipt printer, cash drawer), does inventory management, records customer info and even tracks cash payments. Even the cost of an iPad (used or new) is cheap compared to even the most basic POS system and the software is free. MerchantOS is a great alternative for shops that already have merchant accounts/payment processors and can afford their monthly fees.
One downside to Square is that they don't have an API for rolling your own integrations. However, most POS software doesn't either. Using Square does not require a merchant account which mitigates the iPad cost issue in my opinion. New non-profits or small co-ops probably couldn't get a decent merchant account with affordable rate anyway.
To those working on this software, I don't understand the scope of this project. There's already a ton of great options out there for every feature mentioned. What's the unmet need this software will help with? I would be inclined to help if I knew a little more about the overall goals.
Thanks, Frank
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:23 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I have a droid and use square
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software From: momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org Date: Wed, July 04, 2012 12:08 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
I wonder if we can get a spread sheet of the data that Square creates. It might be useful to develop an app that takes the data from square, and transforms it into useful data for bike collectives. I've had a look at their web page https://squareup.com/register
It's unfortunate that you must have an ipad to use Square as a POS.
The data base appears to collect this info: date, product, price, payment method, discounts,
i've got a theory that one can use a POS for membership data base, as well as volunteer data base. But i'm not sure if Square collects data about the customer. That would be necessary. I like that you can have cash or check or credit card transactions stored. I just wish you could also have it on a desktop. A lot of our volunteers are against the use of an ipad in the shop and I understand. It sends an odd message to the people who come into the shop for help. We're already in danger of adding to the gentrification of our neighborhood, the last thing we need is is fancy chrome apple products to alienate people even further...
Godwin,
I of course support you in your effort to develop this web based app. Hopefully you/we can think of a simple solution that is flexible. I'm terrible at naming things... So i've got no suggestions there. But I've forwarded on your email to my developer friends. I'm sure we can add some sections in. I assume you'll get it up on github?
cool
we'll talk soon -m
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan.morrison@gmail.com wrote:
If you haven't checked out Square, you really should. It is cheap and simple, and that might be enough for most shops.
https://squareup.com/?gclid=CJfQsMOu_rACFQkZQgodBEtl8A#register
At least it might provide some ideas...
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com wrote:
I’ve also had reservations about going with a web-based system but in the end I think it’s the most adaptable solution. I’m not worrying about hardware integration for now, I’m pretty sure anything is possible but I think that would be far down the list of requirements for most shops that need free software.
It will be open source and modular, so there won’t be a single point person for the entire system, I’ll do my best to set up a good environment for users to interact with the developers and for developers to provide documentation. This is a bit of an experiment but I have far more faith in open and crowd sourcing technologies than I do having a long term individual or group in charge (including myself).
Thanks! .g
From: Jonathan Morrison Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 3:49:13 PM
To: The Think Tank Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Godwin,
Will it be able to swipe credit card? Interface with a cash drawer? Or scan a UPC? My concern with any web-based system is that you don't have access to the necessary lower level hardware of a useful POS system.
Also, how much will you be charging for tech support, or what level of on-going support can users expect? Or will use be at your own risk with no implied support?
Name Suggestion: PIF - Pedaling/Paying It Forward
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
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This looks great, I can't wait until you get it rolling. We use freehub here at SFBK (of course) but maybe we can use the POS or other various plugins.
I added b.i.c.i as a possible name but it's probably too nerdy. I suppose that's what you get from someone who grew up in silicon valley.
best, jimmy
On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com wrote:
Ok, so doing this over the thinktank doesn't really work. I created a little voting app to let anyone interested vote on the name and add more possible names to that list: http://drupal.thegodwin.ca/software. If you have another idea for a name, get on there quick to let more people vote on it. There's a long description of the app, ability to comment, and email list for updates there too.
Thanks! .godwin
From: goodgodwin@hotmail.com To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:58:49 -0600
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Ok, I'll try to answer this one in case anyone else is concerned and not finding the motives clear, but I'm really cautioning against more discussion on this topic, I feel it's still a little early for most of this and people who are not interested are likely getting annoyed.
The problem as I see it is really three-fold
- *Integration*: you're right in saying that there is a ton of great
software out there already, problem is that it takes a ton of software to get what needs to get done done and requires a lot more work than should be required. Hopefully new shops won't have to waste time trying to research tools and processes but instead be able to download a package and get down to business much more quickly and efficiently. 2. *Customization*: our organizations are generally vary quite a bit from one to another but are often even more varied from the norm of what most people design software for, particularly for-profit models. We often need to keep more details records to apply for grants and we often offer services which are not considered when creating software for average for-profit models (think about the bike shares that many of us offer or the fact that many of us are membership based and have different rules around that). With software which is owned and created by our community, we have the potential to get what each of us needs without compromise. 3. *Cost*: The Bike Farm and other fairly established shops are in a very lucky position, you can afford things. You can afford things that many other shops, especially startups cannot such as sophisticated software. Many organizations which I have spoken to are still using spreadsheets to record data.
Please keep in mind that this discussion on POS systems and hardware is somewhat of a tangent from this discussion, but again shops like yours that can afford to use the Square are going to benefit from this the least, and also keep in mind that money tracking would hopefully be only one small part of the system in the end.
Momoko: I'm designing it so that everything should easily be accessed as a service so it can be ported to a Java or C# application for example. PHP is my choice because I aim it to be distributable and it is the most common and often cheapest to get hosting for.
.godwin
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:21:09 -0700 From: frank@bikefarm.org To: thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Hey everyone,
I wanted to chime in here as this issue is important to me.
At Bike Farm (www.bikefarm.org) we use Square to take debit/credit cards via smartphone. It is by far the cheapest and easiest to use with very low fees. The barrier to entry is basically training your volunteers and obtaining a smart phone. Signing up is free, there's no monthly rate and they mail you a card reader for no cost.
I wish we had an iPad in our shop as Square's point of sale software is so elegant. Many more small businesses in addition to non-profits are moving to Square. Their iPad app works with POS hardware (receipt printer, cash drawer), does inventory management, records customer info and even tracks cash payments. Even the cost of an iPad (used or new) is cheap compared to even the most basic POS system and the software is free. MerchantOS is a great alternative for shops that already have merchant accounts/payment processors and can afford their monthly fees.
One downside to Square is that they don't have an API for rolling your own integrations. However, most POS software doesn't either. Using Square does not require a merchant account which mitigates the iPad cost issue in my opinion. New non-profits or small co-ops probably couldn't get a decent merchant account with affordable rate anyway.
To those working on this software, I don't understand the scope of this project. There's already a ton of great options out there for every feature mentioned. What's the unmet need this software will help with? I would be inclined to help if I knew a little more about the overall goals.
Thanks, Frank
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:23 AM, christopher@holisticcycles.com wrote:
I have a droid and use square
Christopher Wallace Holistic Cycles 140 Harrison St Oak Park, IL. 60304
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software From: momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org Date: Wed, July 04, 2012 12:08 pm To: The Think Tank thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
I wonder if we can get a spread sheet of the data that Square creates.
It
might be useful to develop an app that takes the data from square, and transforms it into useful data for bike collectives. I've had a look at their web page https://squareup.com/register
It's unfortunate that you must have an ipad to use Square as a POS.
The data base appears to collect this info: date, product, price, payment method, discounts,
i've got a theory that one can use a POS for membership data base, as
well
as volunteer data base. But i'm not sure if Square collects data about
the
customer. That would be necessary. I like that you can have cash or
check
or credit card transactions stored. I just wish you could also have it
on a
desktop. A lot of our volunteers are against the use of an ipad in the
shop
and I understand. It sends an odd message to the people who come into
the
shop for help. We're already in danger of adding to the gentrification
of
our neighborhood, the last thing we need is is fancy chrome apple
products
to alienate people even further...
Godwin,
I of course support you in your effort to develop this web based app. Hopefully you/we can think of a simple solution that is flexible. I'm terrible at naming things... So i've got no suggestions there. But I've forwarded on your email to my developer friends. I'm sure we can add
some
sections in. I assume you'll get it up on github?
cool
we'll talk soon -m
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan.morrison@gmail.com wrote:
If you haven't checked out Square, you really should. It is cheap and simple, and that might be enough for most shops.
https://squareup.com/?gclid=CJfQsMOu_rACFQkZQgodBEtl8A#register
At least it might provide some ideas...
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Godwin ! goodgodwin@hotmail.com
wrote:
I’ve also had reservations about going with a web-based system but
in the
end I think it’s the most adaptable solution. I’m not worrying about hardware integration for now, I’m pretty sure anything is possible
but I
think that would be far down the list of requirements for most shops
that
need free software.
It will be open source and modular, so there won’t be a single point person for the entire system, I’ll do my best to set up a good
environment
for users to interact with the developers and for developers to
provide
documentation. This is a bit of an experiment but I have far more
faith in
open and crowd sourcing technologies than I do having a long term
individual
or group in charge (including myself).
Thanks! .g
From: Jonathan Morrison Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 3:49:13 PM
To: The Think Tank Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Shop software
Godwin,
Will it be able to swipe credit card? Interface with a cash drawer?
Or
scan a UPC? My concern with any web-based system is that you don't
have
access to the necessary lower level hardware of a useful POS system.
Also, how much will you be charging for tech support, or what level
of
on-going support can users expect? Or will use be at your own risk
with no
implied support?
Name Suggestion: PIF - Pedaling/Paying It Forward
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison c: 801-688-0183
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participants (5)
-
BK Info -
christopher＠holisticcycles.com -
Frank -
Godwin ! -
Jonathan Morrison