Trailer Rental Suggestions
Hey All,
I work at Bike Recycle Vermont, a community shop specifically designed to serve the low/no income population in Burlington VT and beyond. We get a ton of use out of our Bikes at Work trailer. We are currently trying to design a rental program so that we can lend our trailer out to the low income customers we serve. Our only reservations come from not being able to ensure trailers safe return. Loss/damage is an obvious assumed risk when anything is rented out. Generally, that risk is shared between the customer and the org, but our challenge in renting to low income customers is what acts as collateral if customers have no ID or access to money? We are planning to offer a day-time only rental to coincide with our daily hours along with substantial locks for both the trailer and bike. Any suggestions or models that exist elsewhere that may be helpful. Thanks,
Dan
Well, I think you made it clear that your low-income customers don't have any traditional collateral (money or valuable assets) to guarantee safe return of the trailers. I would just accept that fact -- you are going to loose some.
Given that, I would suggest one of the following:
*(1) Get your money's worth first -- in time. * AKA the required number of volunteer hours they must contribute BEFORE HAND in lieu of adequate traditional collateral should generate enough actual revenue for your community shop that you could buy a new trailer. Also that investment in time might
*(2) Give them ownership.* Make them part owner of a trailer, which means they would get a commission off future rentals. If the trailer represents residual income, they are more likely to protect it (and turn each other in). Obviously you want to be careful not to fund someone's drug habit or inadvertently spawn other negative behaviors just for the sake of overpriced metal and rubber.
*(3) Have an easy way to recover the trailers.* Lojack systems with GPS and other things have a fundamental flaws in that these 'digital' systems require some serious battery power and footprints (too big). However, old school 'analog' systems like those used for "Radio Tracking for Wildlife Animals" are the size of a grain of rice, have a 5 miles range, and don't need to recharge for up to 5 years. One of our mechanics does wildlife management in the summers and used gear from Teleonics and Blue Sky. Here are some suppliers: http://nhsbig.inhs.uiuc.edu/wes/equipment_suppliers.html
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Dan Hock dan@bikerecycle.localmotion.orgwrote:
Hey All,
I work at Bike Recycle Vermont, a community shop specifically designed to serve the low/no income population in Burlington VT and beyond. We get a ton of use out of our Bikes at Work trailer. We are currently trying to design a rental program so that we can lend our trailer out to the low income customers we serve. Our only reservations come from not being able to ensure trailers safe return. Loss/damage is an obvious assumed risk when anything is rented out. Generally, that risk is shared between the customer and the org, but our challenge in renting to low income customers is what acts as collateral if customers have no ID or access to money? We are planning to offer a day-time only rental to coincide with our daily hours along with substantial locks for both the trailer and bike. Any suggestions or models that exist elsewhere that may be helpful. Thanks,
Dan
-- Dan Hock Bike Recycle Vermont Program Manager w. 802.264.9687 Bike Recycle Vermont http://www.localmotion.com/bikerecycle 664 Riverside Ave. Burlington
Learn to ride a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live.
~Mark Twain
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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Another thing that is possible to lower the risk, is to lower the cost of the trailers -- by making your own. The Bike at Work trailers are nice ( http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/features.html ), but there is a pretty crazy margin in there and most community bike shops have enough fabricating ability to produce something of this quality. If not, you would be surprised what a local welder / machine shop will do for $20.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Jonathan Morrison < jonathan@bicyclecollective.org> wrote:
Well, I think you made it clear that your low-income customers don't have any traditional collateral (money or valuable assets) to guarantee safe return of the trailers. I would just accept that fact -- you are going to loose some.
Given that, I would suggest one of the following:
*(1) Get your money's worth first -- in time. * AKA the required number of volunteer hours they must contribute BEFORE HAND in lieu of adequate traditional collateral should generate enough actual revenue for your community shop that you could buy a new trailer. Also that investment in time might
*(2) Give them ownership.* Make them part owner of a trailer, which means they would get a commission off future rentals. If the trailer represents residual income, they are more likely to protect it (and turn each other in). Obviously you want to be careful not to fund someone's drug habit or inadvertently spawn other negative behaviors just for the sake of overpriced metal and rubber.
*(3) Have an easy way to recover the trailers.* Lojack systems with GPS and other things have a fundamental flaws in that these 'digital' systems require some serious battery power and footprints (too big). However, old school 'analog' systems like those used for "Radio Tracking for Wildlife Animals" are the size of a grain of rice, have a 5 miles range, and don't need to recharge for up to 5 years. One of our mechanics does wildlife management in the summers and used gear from Teleonics and Blue Sky. Here are some suppliers: http://nhsbig.inhs.uiuc.edu/wes/equipment_suppliers.html
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Dan Hock < dan@bikerecycle.localmotion.org> wrote:
Hey All,
I work at Bike Recycle Vermont, a community shop specifically designed to serve the low/no income population in Burlington VT and beyond. We get a ton of use out of our Bikes at Work trailer. We are currently trying to design a rental program so that we can lend our trailer out to the low income customers we serve. Our only reservations come from not being able to ensure trailers safe return. Loss/damage is an obvious assumed risk when anything is rented out. Generally, that risk is shared between the customer and the org, but our challenge in renting to low income customers is what acts as collateral if customers have no ID or access to money? We are planning to offer a day-time only rental to coincide with our daily hours along with substantial locks for both the trailer and bike. Any suggestions or models that exist elsewhere that may be helpful. Thanks,
Dan
-- Dan Hock Bike Recycle Vermont Program Manager w. 802.264.9687 Bike Recycle Vermont http://www.localmotion.com/bikerecycle 664 Riverside Ave. Burlington
Learn to ride a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live.
~Mark Twain
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
If you are considering trailers that if lost won't be a deal breaker, get a copy of The Cart Book by William L. Sullivan ISBN 0-8306-0512-6 ~ $17 Amazon or Half.com http://half.com/ Tubing cuter ~ $20. Tubing bender ~ $40 parts ~ $30 Total investment: <$100 Cost of cart parts <$30 plus salvaged wheels and no welding. Hardest part is making the hitch. The snap components for the ones used by the Bike at Work are available from McMasters. Worst case purchase the hitch adapter from Cycletote if you can't get one made local. I have also seen threadless stems adapted. Another option is to bend out the frame and have patrons do the assembly thus assuming the risk. Using a length of 2 X 4 with a grove in it facing the floor screwed to a 2 X 2' 3/4" plywood can help to keep the bends square. I suppose you could also use two 2 X 2" pieces as a sandwich to keep the bends square, I just thought of that . . . Tubing is also bent by starting at the end/last bend though with a rectangle it doesn't matter.
Drop me a note if you have any questions about The Cart Book.
Ron
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison < jonathan@bicyclecollective.org> wrote:
Another thing that is possible to lower the risk, is to lower the cost of the trailers -- by making your own. The Bike at Work trailers are nice ( http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/features.html ), but there is a pretty crazy margin in there and most community bike shops have enough fabricating ability to produce something of this quality. If not, you would be surprised what a local welder / machine shop will do for $20.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Jonathan Morrison < jonathan@bicyclecollective.org> wrote:
Well, I think you made it clear that your low-income customers don't have any traditional collateral (money or valuable assets) to guarantee safe return of the trailers. I would just accept that fact -- you are going to loose some.
Given that, I would suggest one of the following:
*(1) Get your money's worth first -- in time. * AKA the required number of volunteer hours they must contribute BEFORE HAND in lieu of adequate traditional collateral should generate enough actual revenue for your community shop that you could buy a new trailer. Also that investment in time might
*(2) Give them ownership.* Make them part owner of a trailer, which means they would get a commission off future rentals. If the trailer represents residual income, they are more likely to protect it (and turn each other in). Obviously you want to be careful not to fund someone's drug habit or inadvertently spawn other negative behaviors just for the sake of overpriced metal and rubber.
*(3) Have an easy way to recover the trailers.* Lojack systems with GPS and other things have a fundamental flaws in that these 'digital' systems require some serious battery power and footprints (too big). However, old school 'analog' systems like those used for "Radio Tracking for Wildlife Animals" are the size of a grain of rice, have a 5 miles range, and don't need to recharge for up to 5 years. One of our mechanics does wildlife management in the summers and used gear from Teleonics and Blue Sky. Here are some suppliers: http://nhsbig.inhs.uiuc.edu/wes/equipment_suppliers.html
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Dan Hock < dan@bikerecycle.localmotion.org> wrote:
Hey All,
I work at Bike Recycle Vermont, a community shop specifically designed to serve the low/no income population in Burlington VT and beyond. We get a ton of use out of our Bikes at Work trailer. We are currently trying to design a rental program so that we can lend our trailer out to the low income customers we serve. Our only reservations come from not being able to ensure trailers safe return. Loss/damage is an obvious assumed risk when anything is rented out. Generally, that risk is shared between the customer and the org, but our challenge in renting to low income customers is what acts as collateral if customers have no ID or access to money? We are planning to offer a day-time only rental to coincide with our daily hours along with substantial locks for both the trailer and bike. Any suggestions or models that exist elsewhere that may be helpful. Thanks,
Dan
-- Dan Hock Bike Recycle Vermont Program Manager w. 802.264.9687 Bike Recycle Vermont http://www.localmotion.com/bikerecycle 664 Riverside Ave. Burlington
Learn to ride a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live.
~Mark Twain
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
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Forgot to include this: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/793798-Bike-co-op-working-on-traile... in the last post is a link to some pictures of trailers made from bike components. You will also see where I robbed a previous post of mine on the topic.
Ron
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Ron Kellis ron.kellis@velocitycoop.orgwrote:
If you are considering trailers that if lost won't be a deal breaker, get a copy of The Cart Book by William L. Sullivan ISBN 0-8306-0512-6 ~ $17 Amazon or Half.com http://half.com/ Tubing cuter ~ $20. Tubing bender ~ $40 parts ~ $30 Total investment: <$100 Cost of cart parts <$30 plus salvaged wheels and no welding. Hardest part is making the hitch. The snap components for the ones used by the Bike at Work are available from McMasters. Worst case purchase the hitch adapter from Cycletote if you can't get one made local. I have also seen threadless stems adapted. Another option is to bend out the frame and have patrons do the assembly thus assuming the risk. Using a length of 2 X 4 with a grove in it facing the floor screwed to a 2 X 2' 3/4" plywood can help to keep the bends square. I suppose you could also use two 2 X 2" pieces as a sandwich to keep the bends square, I just thought of that . . . Tubing is also bent by starting at the end/last bend though with a rectangle it doesn't matter.
Drop me a note if you have any questions about The Cart Book.
Ron
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Jonathan Morrison < jonathan@bicyclecollective.org> wrote:
Another thing that is possible to lower the risk, is to lower the cost of the trailers -- by making your own. The Bike at Work trailers are nice ( http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/features.html ), but there is a pretty crazy margin in there and most community bike shops have enough fabricating ability to produce something of this quality. If not, you would be surprised what a local welder / machine shop will do for $20.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Jonathan Morrison < jonathan@bicyclecollective.org> wrote:
Well, I think you made it clear that your low-income customers don't have any traditional collateral (money or valuable assets) to guarantee safe return of the trailers. I would just accept that fact -- you are going to loose some.
Given that, I would suggest one of the following:
*(1) Get your money's worth first -- in time. * AKA the required number of volunteer hours they must contribute BEFORE HAND in lieu of adequate traditional collateral should generate enough actual revenue for your community shop that you could buy a new trailer. Also that investment in time might
*(2) Give them ownership.* Make them part owner of a trailer, which means they would get a commission off future rentals. If the trailer represents residual income, they are more likely to protect it (and turn each other in). Obviously you want to be careful not to fund someone's drug habit or inadvertently spawn other negative behaviors just for the sake of overpriced metal and rubber.
*(3) Have an easy way to recover the trailers.* Lojack systems with GPS and other things have a fundamental flaws in that these 'digital' systems require some serious battery power and footprints (too big). However, old school 'analog' systems like those used for "Radio Tracking for Wildlife Animals" are the size of a grain of rice, have a 5 miles range, and don't need to recharge for up to 5 years. One of our mechanics does wildlife management in the summers and used gear from Teleonics and Blue Sky. Here are some suppliers: http://nhsbig.inhs.uiuc.edu/wes/equipment_suppliers.html
Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.bicyclecollective.org
The mission of the Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households.
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Dan Hock < dan@bikerecycle.localmotion.org> wrote:
Hey All,
I work at Bike Recycle Vermont, a community shop specifically designed to serve the low/no income population in Burlington VT and beyond. We get a ton of use out of our Bikes at Work trailer. We are currently trying to design a rental program so that we can lend our trailer out to the low income customers we serve. Our only reservations come from not being able to ensure trailers safe return. Loss/damage is an obvious assumed risk when anything is rented out. Generally, that risk is shared between the customer and the org, but our challenge in renting to low income customers is what acts as collateral if customers have no ID or access to money? We are planning to offer a day-time only rental to coincide with our daily hours along with substantial locks for both the trailer and bike. Any suggestions or models that exist elsewhere that may be helpful. Thanks,
Dan
-- Dan Hock Bike Recycle Vermont Program Manager w. 802.264.9687 Bike Recycle Vermont http://www.localmotion.com/bikerecycle 664 Riverside Ave. Burlington
Learn to ride a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live.
~Mark Twain
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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participants (3)
-
Dan Hock -
Jonathan Morrison -
Ron Kellis