I am getting ready to send out mass mailings to solicit donations from bike shops, bike companies, tool and parts companies, and local cycling advocacy groups. Has anyone had much luck with this approach? and if so I am curious which companies are likely to send donations or have a history of supporting community or youth bike programs.
peace,
Think of it like you are an ugly* person trying to a date or an under-qualified person trying to get a job -- you may have an uphill battle ahead of you. So the more care you give to each donor, the greater the possibility of return. There is no method of solicitation that beats asking a friend at bike shops, bike companies, tool and parts companies, and local cycling advocacy groups for a donation. Got no friends in high places? Start making some.
Mass mailings are great for announcing an event or something that people might want or want to do -- giving donations doesn't fall under that category.
- I am an ugly person, hell, I have to work hard to get a date with my wife.
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:02 PM, adam schwartz rideyourbicycle@gmail.com wrote:
I am getting ready to send out mass mailings to solicit donations from bike shops, bike companies, tool and parts companies, and local cycling advocacy groups. Has anyone had much luck with this approach? and if so I am curious which companies are likely to send donations or have a history of supporting community or youth bike programs.
peace,
-- Adam Schwartz Program Coordinator, Renaissance Community Youth Bike Shop 6200 Sheridan Street, Riverdale, MD rideyourbicycle@gmail.com (301)275-2362
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Have been thinking this for a while
the list is pretty active so lets try it.
We could do this nationwide, local bike/likecompanies etc may feel like donating to the co-ops in the local to them. Lets solicit nationwide together and see what pops. Gas is $4.00 a gallon we are the bike co-op revolution lets rock it now. Let them know we are basically working together and we are everywhere and growing. get it on craigs and any other local listings
next proposed web event like this will be to try to perswadw people not to buy department store bikes - i think you al may understand that one!!!
Gary
On 5/9/08, Jonathan Morrison jonathan@slcbikecollective.org wrote:
Think of it like you are an ugly* person trying to a date or an under-qualified person trying to get a job -- you may have an uphill battle ahead of you. So the more care you give to each donor, the greater the possibility of return. There is no method of solicitation that beats asking a friend at bike shops, bike companies, tool and parts companies, and local cycling advocacy groups for a donation. Got no friends in high places? Start making some.
Mass mailings are great for announcing an event or something that people might want or want to do -- giving donations doesn't fall under that category.
- I am an ugly person, hell, I have to work hard to get a date with my
wife.
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:02 PM, adam schwartz rideyourbicycle@gmail.com wrote:
I am getting ready to send out mass mailings to solicit donations from bike shops, bike companies, tool and parts companies, and local cycling advocacy groups. Has anyone had much luck with this approach? and if so I am curious which companies are likely to send donations or have a history of supporting community or youth bike programs.
peace,
-- Adam Schwartz Program Coordinator, Renaissance Community Youth Bike Shop 6200 Sheridan Street, Riverdale, MD rideyourbicycle@gmail.com (301)275-2362
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
-- Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org
Get Addicted to Crank! http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/
The mission of the Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective is to promote cycling as an effective and sustainable form of transportation and as a cornerstone of a cleaner, healthier, and safer society. The Bicycle Collective provides refurbished bicycles and educational programs to the community, focusing on children and lower income households. _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Words of wisdom from Gary; we should listen and figure something out.
In similar matters, lately i've been thinking quite a bit about brainstorming / negotiating / launching a Bike Collectives / Tool manufacturers sponsorship / marketing campaign to get some really good deals on tools and other shop supplies by running ads on all possible bicycle publications and related websites with " if we don't break it, no one will... " type captions; WE as in Us, Community Bike Projects of the U.S.
WHY ?
NO local bike shop uses their freewheel removing tools 10,15,20 times in a day; we do.
No LBS cuts as many cables or as many yards of housing in a regular shop day like we do.
No LBS uses their chaintools 25+ times in a day... etc,etc.
In general, not a single tool is used at any LBS as many times per day as tools are used and abused at community bike projects.
Where floor pumps are used, nowhere they get used 50+ times in a day...
( i know i can't speak from all the Bike Projects out there,but to get the point across i must generalize, you get the idea )
- WE ARE THE ULTIMATE TESTERS -
Sure, companies have their testing departments / procedures / staff... but when Bike Collectives,etc look into any of these companies products to try' em out, that's it, that's the real deal.
We know more than the average wrench which products work AND are durable and which aren't...
I believe this ads could be very appealing to home mechanics trying to get the most for their money, hell, maybe even pro/race/team mechanics looking for the most bombproof /race-tour worthy equipment could be interested in hearing what we have to say about such and such products...
The ads could feature some of the largest, busiest Co-ops and such out there; a different one every month or so, while at the same time these ads will help promote our organizations and perhaps also help younger community shops to get more recognition and respect from their communities for their efforts.
Mix in a few good facts about the featured organization complete with numbers and all and you have a state of the art marketing tool:
Number of bikes recycled in 2007: 483
Number of bikes sent as aid to countries with limited or no access to bikes: 1500
Number of bikes donated to charity: 300
Number of bikes relocated into the community through Earn-A-Bike program: 224
Total number of bikes diverted from the Landfill in 2007...
ETC, ETC... (maybe also things like: years in operation: # number of volunteers: # etc. or even some fun facts like what's the weirdest thing you've found inside a bike you worked on or something... ( in my case, i once found a mummified mouse in the BB and someone else found a love letter in a seat post )
This will show the general public and the companies WHAT we do with THESE tools...
I realize there's a lot more to it, but this is the main concept. Thoughts ?
On the topic of department store bikes, i wanna make stickers that say " Friends don't let friends ride Walt-Mart bicycles"... perhaps we could come up with a shared design that we can all use and just add your Project's Name / Logo on it, that way is the same sticker nation wide and BAM !! we start the Dept, store bike awareness campaign... who knows, if done neatly, it could catch some major mainstream media attention ( not only indymedia ! ) who wants to join ?
Sorry this mail was sooo long.
Wear the grease under your nails with pride.
Cheers to all, see you in Sunny Cali.
-R
As for the stickers and department store "bikes", there has been info out in the past, including a class action lawsuit due to front quick releases and serious injuries to kids. I know there is a lot of anti-Wal-Mart sentimentality out there, but these "bikes" aren't just sold in Wal-Mart. They are also sold at Toys Are Us, K-Mart, Target, Sam's Club, Costco, etc. So these stickers and the campaign has to be more generalized. Two other thoughts on this campaign would have to include the many areas of this country where there are no bike shops and how do low income families who can only stretch their budgets far enough to buy their kid a bike for under $100, $70, or $40 do so? While some might advocate they buy used bikes, check out the junk sitting at the Goodwill with exorbitant prices on them, sold as is and you can see why that is not a viable option. Garage sales are great alternatives, but again the bikes are sold "as is" which often leaves a bike in need of some TLC from a good mechanic. Bruce
bike against bikeagainst@gmail.com wrote: Words of wisdom from Gary; we should listen and figure something out.
In similar matters, lately i've been thinking quite a bit about brainstorming / negotiating / launching a Bike Collectives / Tool manufacturers sponsorship / marketing campaign to get some really good deals on tools and other shop supplies by running ads on all possible bicycle publications and related websites with " if we don't break it, no one will... " type captions; WE as in Us, Community Bike Projects of the U.S.
WHY ?
NO local bike shop uses their freewheel removing tools 10,15,20 times in a day; we do.
No LBS cuts as many cables or as many yards of housing in a regular shop day like we do.
No LBS uses their chaintools 25+ times in a day... etc,etc.
In general, not a single tool is used at any LBS as many times per day as tools are used and abused at community bike projects.
Where floor pumps are used, nowhere they get used 50+ times in a day...
( i know i can't speak from all the Bike Projects out there,but to get the point across i must generalize, you get the idea )
- WE ARE THE ULTIMATE TESTERS -
Sure, companies have their testing departments / procedures / staff... but when Bike Collectives,etc look into any of these companies products to try' em out, that's it, that's the real deal.
We know more than the average wrench which products work AND are durable and which aren't...
I believe this ads could be very appealing to home mechanics trying to get the most for their money, hell, maybe even pro/race/team mechanics looking for the most bombproof /race-tour worthy equipment could be interested in hearing what we have to say about such and such products...
The ads could feature some of the largest, busiest Co-ops and such out there; a different one every month or so, while at the same time these ads will help promote our organizations and perhaps also help younger community shops to get more recognition and respect from their communities for their efforts.
Mix in a few good facts about the featured organization complete with numbers and all and you have a state of the art marketing tool:
Number of bikes recycled in 2007: 483
Number of bikes sent as aid to countries with limited or no access to bikes: 1500
Number of bikes donated to charity: 300
Number of bikes relocated into the community through Earn-A-Bike program: 224
Total number of bikes diverted from the Landfill in 2007...
ETC, ETC... (maybe also things like: years in operation: # number of volunteers: # etc. or even some fun facts like what's the weirdest thing you've found inside a bike you worked on or something... ( in my case, i once found a mummified mouse in the BB and someone else found a love letter in a seat post )
This will show the general public and the companies WHAT we do with THESE tools...
I realize there's a lot more to it, but this is the main concept. Thoughts ?
On the topic of department store bikes, i wanna make stickers that say " Friends don't let friends ride Walt-Mart bicycles"... perhaps we could come up with a shared design that we can all use and just add your Project's Name / Logo on it, that way is the same sticker nation wide and BAM !! we start the Dept, store bike awareness campaign... who knows, if done neatly, it could catch some major mainstream media attention ( not only indymedia ! ) who wants to join ?
Sorry this mail was sooo long.
Wear the grease under your nails with pride.
Cheers to all, see you in Sunny Cali.
-R
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Bruce Lien bikedadlien@yahoo.com wrote:
how do low income families who can only stretch their budgets far enough to buy their kid a bike for under $100, $70, or $40 do so? While some might advocate they buy used bikes, check out the junk sitting at the Goodwill with exorbitant prices on them, sold as is and you can see why that is not a viable option. Garage sales are great alternatives, but again the bikes are sold "as is" which often leaves a bike in need of some TLC from a good mechanic. Bruce
several things the people on this list have or have access to:
volunteer power/time/energy. bike knowledge. decent--better than dept store bikes.
this is just a brainstorm that just came to me after reading gary, rafael, and bruce's emails....but what if we could somehow get the word out to these low income families with no LBS that the coops are the place to go. some kind of mailorder thing...i'm not sure how it would work, but if we're operating on a national level, then shouldn't we be able to address at least some of the basic needs of everyone in the country? just an idea, i've been thinking about for all of 30 seconds. unlike gary's and rafaels, which both sound awesome and doable...
I just finished composing a letter to our local thrift stores (on letterhead) asking for them to pass on bicycle donations to our collective. This is after I made contact with several local thrift shops personally, and was met with a lot of positive response to the idea. The letter will be coupled with a laminated quarter sheet card, including our logo, and contact information for our primary and secondary pick-up volunteers. The thrift shops would be also a great place to leave some literature about who we are and what we do. The salvation army specifically mentioned they dumpster frames, or any bikes that aren;t ridable.
I have not yet distributed the letter because we are still getting our shop layout/construction projects finished, and would not be able to handle the influx of bicycles. <3 cycle, vyki
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Cuper cuper@neighborhoodbikeworks.org wrote:
And what about for the people are won't to come into your coop for all of the perceived social, racial, economic, and other barriers we all know way too well? By telling folks *who are already intimidated by you* that those bikes are garbage, and implying that anyone who buys one is stupid, you are alienating potential shop users and customers.
Those department store monsters aren't great, but can be "gateway bikes." If you find a more positive way to pitch your product (instead slamming what many people feel is the best they can do), the folks who are riding department store bikes now are light years more likely to come to you in a year or two or five.
jimmie
-- Neighborhood Bike Works tel: 215.386.0316 3916 Locust Walk fax: 215.386.7288 Philadelphia, PA 19104 www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org
Providing opportunities to youth through bicycling.
NBw has a listserv! To stay in touch, subscribe to BikeStreetJounral@NeighborhoodBikeWorks.org at www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org/mailman/listinfo/bikestreetjournal.
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Bruce Lien bikedadlien@yahoo.com wrote:
how do low income families who can only stretch their budgets far enough to buy their kid a bike for under $100, $70, or $40 do so? While some might advocate they buy used bikes, check out the junk sitting at the Goodwill with exorbitant prices on them, sold as is and you can see why that is not a viable option. Garage sales are great alternatives, but again the bikes are sold "as is" which often leaves a bike in need of some TLC from a good mechanic. Bruce
several things the people on this list have or have access to:
volunteer power/time/energy. bike knowledge. decent--better than dept store bikes.
this is just a brainstorm that just came to me after reading gary, rafael, and bruce's emails....but what if we could somehow get the word out to these low income families with no LBS that the coops are the place to go. some kind of mailorder thing...i'm not sure how it would work, but if we're operating on a national level, then shouldn't we be able to address at least some of the basic needs of everyone in the country? just an idea, i've been thinking about for all of 30 seconds. unlike gary's and rafaels, which both sound awesome and doable...
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.orghttp://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
When people ask me what the best bike to get is...I answer, "The best bike is which ever one you will get on AND RIDE!, not just have it sit in storage."
On 5/19/08, Cuper cuper@neighborhoodbikeworks.org wrote:
And what about for the people are won't to come into your coop for all of the perceived social, racial, economic, and other barriers we all know way too well? By telling folks *who are already intimidated by you* that those bikes are garbage, and implying that anyone who buys one is stupid, you are alienating potential shop users and customers.
Those department store monsters aren't great, but can be "gateway bikes." If you find a more positive way to pitch your product (instead slamming what many people feel is the best they can do), the folks who are riding department store bikes now are light years more likely to come to you in a year or two or five.
jimmie
-- Neighborhood Bike Works tel: 215.386.0316 3916 Locust Walk fax: 215.386.7288 Philadelphia, PA 19104 www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org
Providing opportunities to youth through bicycling.
NBw has a listserv! To stay in touch, subscribe to BikeStreetJounral@NeighborhoodBikeWorks.org at www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org/mailman/listinfo/bikestreetjournal.
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Bruce Lien bikedadlien@yahoo.com wrote:
how do low income families who can only stretch their budgets far enough to buy their kid a bike for under $100, $70, or $40 do so? While some might advocate they buy used bikes, check out the junk sitting at the Goodwill with exorbitant prices on them, sold as is and you can see why that is not a viable option. Garage sales are great alternatives, but again the bikes are sold "as is" which often leaves a bike in need of some TLC from a good mechanic. Bruce
several things the people on this list have or have access to:
volunteer power/time/energy. bike knowledge. decent--better than dept store bikes.
this is just a brainstorm that just came to me after reading gary, rafael, and bruce's emails....but what if we could somehow get the word out to these low income families with no LBS that the coops are the place to go. some kind of mailorder thing...i'm not sure how it would work, but if we're operating on a national level, then shouldn't we be able to address at least some of the basic needs of everyone in the country? just an idea, i've been thinking about for all of 30 seconds. unlike gary's and rafaels, which both sound awesome and doable...
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.orghttp://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
I think the whole department store bike issue is a real obstacle to cycling. On the one hand, prices of decent entry level bikes have gone up up up in recent years, making the 149.95 price point on a lot of those wal-mart beasts seem reasonable. However, as has been our experience at the Austin Yellow Bike, and one that I'm sure others have noticed, those bikes are effectively disposable. All of the parts within them are near irreparable. Hubs that you can never quite adjust because the cones start pitting from the box, bad springs, rust, etc. You pay less but if you actually intend to ride then you end up paying more for a replacement or futile service. This more often than not puts a sour taste in people's mouths for cycling and the gateway never happens.
I've thought about some way we can get the knowledge out about the virtues of used/older bikes, etc. and the pitfalls of those tantalizingly cheap department store bikes, combined with the refurbishing and sale of (better) used bikes. A lot of people don't realize that a bike *should* last you 20, 30, even 100 years. I've almost wanted to stand around in the department store bicycle section and hand people leaflets, perhaps shouting "It's a trap!". When people come into our shop to work on those bikes the difference is made clear enough to them, but something broader could be interesting...
Snobbery towards department store bikes, and more importantly those who ride them, is counter-productive and doesn't help anyone, but department store bikes must nonetheless be stopped. Their disposability and hassle is arguable anti-bicycle.
-sherief
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Gern Blanston getgern@gmail.com wrote:
When people ask me what the best bike to get is...I answer, "The best bike is which ever one you will get on AND RIDE!, not just have it sit in storage."
On 5/19/08, Cuper cuper@neighborhoodbikeworks.org wrote:
And what about for the people are won't to come into your coop for all of the perceived social, racial, economic, and other barriers we all know way too well? By telling folks *who are already intimidated by you* that those bikes are garbage, and implying that anyone who buys one is stupid, you are alienating potential shop users and customers.
Those department store monsters aren't great, but can be "gateway bikes." If you find a more positive way to pitch your product (instead slamming what many people feel is the best they can do), the folks who are riding department store bikes now are light years more likely to come to you in a year or two or five.
jimmie
-- Neighborhood Bike Works tel: 215.386.0316 3916 Locust Walk fax: 215.386.7288 Philadelphia, PA 19104 www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org
Providing opportunities to youth through bicycling.
NBw has a listserv! To stay in touch, subscribe to BikeStreetJounral@NeighborhoodBikeWorks.org at www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org/mailman/listinfo/bikestreetjournal.
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Bruce Lien bikedadlien@yahoo.com wrote:
how do low income families who can only stretch their budgets far enough to buy their kid a bike for under $100, $70, or $40 do so? While some might advocate they buy used bikes, check out the junk sitting at the Goodwill with exorbitant prices on them, sold as is and you can see why that is not a viable option. Garage sales are great alternatives, but again the bikes are sold "as is" which often leaves a bike in need of some TLC from a good mechanic. Bruce
several things the people on this list have or have access to:
volunteer power/time/energy. bike knowledge. decent--better than dept store bikes.
this is just a brainstorm that just came to me after reading gary, rafael, and bruce's emails....but what if we could somehow get the word out to these low income families with no LBS that the coops are the place to go. some kind of mailorder thing...i'm not sure how it would work, but if we're operating on a national level, then shouldn't we be able to address at least some of the basic needs of everyone in the country? just an idea, i've been thinking about for all of 30 seconds. unlike gary's and rafaels, which both sound awesome and doable...
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.orghttp://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
That's why when I bought my wife a COSTCO Magna, threw it on the stand to build/tune up, met those low quality parts I returned it, and bought a $300 trek. 10 years ago, and the trek is still in GREAT condition!!
On 5/28/08, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
I think the whole department store bike issue is a real obstacle to cycling. On the one hand, prices of decent entry level bikes have gone up up up in recent years, making the 149.95 price point on a lot of those wal-mart beasts seem reasonable. However, as has been our experience at the Austin Yellow Bike, and one that I'm sure others have noticed, those bikes are effectively disposable. All of the parts within them are near irreparable. Hubs that you can never quite adjust because the cones start pitting from the box, bad springs, rust, etc. You pay less but if you actually intend to ride then you end up paying more for a replacement or futile service. This more often than not puts a sour taste in people's mouths for cycling and the gateway never happens.
I've thought about some way we can get the knowledge out about the virtues of used/older bikes, etc. and the pitfalls of those tantalizingly cheap department store bikes, combined with the refurbishing and sale of (better) used bikes. A lot of people don't realize that a bike *should* last you 20, 30, even 100 years. I've almost wanted to stand around in the department store bicycle section and hand people leaflets, perhaps shouting "It's a trap!". When people come into our shop to work on those bikes the difference is made clear enough to them, but something broader could be interesting...
Snobbery towards department store bikes, and more importantly those who ride them, is counter-productive and doesn't help anyone, but department store bikes must nonetheless be stopped. Their disposability and hassle is arguable anti-bicycle.
-sherief
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Gern Blanston getgern@gmail.com wrote:
When people ask me what the best bike to get is...I answer, "The best bike is which ever one you will get on AND RIDE!, not just have it sit in storage."
On 5/19/08, Cuper cuper@neighborhoodbikeworks.org wrote:
And what about for the people are won't to come into your coop for all of the perceived social, racial, economic, and other barriers we all know way too well? By telling folks *who are already intimidated by you* that those bikes are garbage, and implying that anyone who buys one is stupid, you are alienating potential shop users and customers.
Those department store monsters aren't great, but can be "gateway bikes." If you find a more positive way to pitch your product (instead slamming what many people feel is the best they can do), the folks who are riding department store bikes now are light years more likely to come to you in a year or two or five.
jimmie
-- Neighborhood Bike Works tel: 215.386.0316 3916 Locust Walk fax: 215.386.7288 Philadelphia, PA 19104 www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org
Providing opportunities to youth through bicycling.
NBw has a listserv! To stay in touch, subscribe to BikeStreetJounral@NeighborhoodBikeWorks.org at www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org/mailman/listinfo/bikestreetjournal.
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Bruce Lien bikedadlien@yahoo.com wrote:
how do low income families who can only stretch their budgets far enough to buy their kid a bike for under $100, $70, or $40 do so? While some might advocate they buy used bikes, check out the junk sitting at the Goodwill with exorbitant prices on them, sold as is and you can see why that is not a viable option. Garage sales are great alternatives, but again the bikes are sold "as is" which often leaves a bike in need of some TLC from a good mechanic. Bruce
several things the people on this list have or have access to:
volunteer power/time/energy. bike knowledge. decent--better than dept store bikes.
this is just a brainstorm that just came to me after reading gary, rafael, and bruce's emails....but what if we could somehow get the word out to these low income families with no LBS that the coops are the place to go. some kind of mailorder thing...i'm not sure how it would work, but if we're operating on a national level, then shouldn't we be able to address at least some of the basic needs of everyone in the country? just an idea, i've been thinking about for all of 30 seconds. unlike gary's and rafaels, which both sound awesome and doable...
Thethinktank mailing listThethinktank@bikecollectives.orghttp://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
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arguably dept. store bikes suck. but just change your thinking a little. they are not a performance machine.
as long as the cones are tight enough, and the wheel straight enough to avoid touching pads, then whomever rides it will appreciate it.
its a step up from a bus pass.
and some people ride roadmasters for years. they are around. you have seen them.
i just keep them rolling and spend more time with better equipment.
noah
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Gern Blanston getgern@gmail.com wrote:
That's why when I bought my wife a COSTCO Magna, threw it on the stand to build/tune up, met those low quality parts I returned it, and bought a $300 trek. 10 years ago, and the trek is still in GREAT condition!!
On 5/28/08, Sherief sgaber@gmail.com wrote:
I think the whole department store bike issue is a real obstacle to cycling. On the one hand, prices of decent entry level bikes have gone up up up in recent years, making the 149.95 price point on a lot of those wal-mart beasts seem reasonable. However, as has been our experience at the Austin Yellow Bike, and one that I'm sure others have noticed, those bikes are effectively disposable. All of the parts within them are near irreparable. Hubs that you can never quite adjust because the cones start pitting from the box, bad springs, rust, etc. You pay less but if you actually intend to ride then you end up paying more for a replacement or futile service. This more often than not puts a sour taste in people's mouths for cycling and the gateway never happens.
I've thought about some way we can get the knowledge out about the virtues of used/older bikes, etc. and the pitfalls of those tantalizingly cheap department store bikes, combined with the refurbishing and sale of (better) used bikes. A lot of people don't realize that a bike *should* last you 20, 30, even 100 years. I've almost wanted to stand around in the department store bicycle section and hand people leaflets, perhaps shouting "It's a trap!". When people come into our shop to work on those bikes the difference is made clear enough to them, but something broader could be interesting...
Snobbery towards department store bikes, and more importantly those who ride them, is counter-productive and doesn't help anyone, but department store bikes must nonetheless be stopped. Their disposability and hassle is arguable anti-bicycle.
-sherief
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Gern Blanston getgern@gmail.com wrote:
When people ask me what the best bike to get is...I answer, "The best bike is which ever one you will get on AND RIDE!, not just have it sit in storage."
On 5/19/08, Cuper cuper@neighborhoodbikeworks.org wrote:
And what about for the people are won't to come into your coop for all of the perceived social, racial, economic, and other barriers we all know way too well? By telling folks *who are already intimidated by you* that those bikes are garbage, and implying that anyone who buys one is stupid, you are alienating potential shop users and customers.
Those department store monsters aren't great, but can be "gateway bikes." If you find a more positive way to pitch your product (instead slamming what many people feel is the best they can do), the folks who are riding department store bikes now are light years more likely to come to you in a year or two or five.
jimmie
-- Neighborhood Bike Works tel: 215.386.0316 3916 Locust Walk fax: 215.386.7288 Philadelphia, PA 19104 www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org
Providing opportunities to youth through bicycling.
NBw has a listserv! To stay in touch, subscribe to BikeStreetJounral@NeighborhoodBikeWorks.org at www.neighborhoodbikeworks.org/mailman/listinfo/bikestreetjournal.
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Bruce Lien bikedadlien@yahoo.com wrote:
how do low income families who can only stretch their budgets far enough to buy their kid a bike for under $100, $70, or $40 do so? While some might advocate they buy used bikes, check out the junk sitting at the Goodwill with exorbitant prices on them, sold as is and you can see why that is not a viable option. Garage sales are great alternatives, but again the bikes are sold "as is" which often leaves a bike in need of some TLC from a good mechanic. Bruce
several things the people on this list have or have access to:
volunteer power/time/energy. bike knowledge. decent--better than dept store bikes.
this is just a brainstorm that just came to me after reading gary, rafael, and bruce's emails....but what if we could somehow get the word out to these low income families with no LBS that the coops are the place to go. some kind of mailorder thing...i'm not sure how it would work, but if we're operating on a national level, then shouldn't we be able to address at least some of the basic needs of everyone in the country? just an idea, i've been thinking about for all of 30 seconds. unlike gary's and rafaels, which both sound awesome and doable...
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Recently I have seen many examples of new department store bikes with cones TOO tight and some with NO grease in the bearings or anywhere else.
Most of the higher end Costco and department store bikes will last for years but they need to be totally overhauled upon purchase otherwise they will grind/seize themselves to death within a couple of seasons. Kind of puts the low end prices of a good bike shop, that checks, greases and adjusts their bikes before sale, into perspective.
Or volunteer at your local community bike shop for a couple of months, then buy a new high end Costco bike, spend 2 evenings overhauling it yourself and laugh all the way to the bank.
Chris --- reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
arguably dept. store bikes suck. but just change your thinking a little. they are not a performance machine.
as long as the cones are tight enough, and the wheel straight enough to avoid touching pads, then whomever rides it will appreciate it.
its a step up from a bus pass.
and some people ride roadmasters for years. they are around. you have seen them.
i just keep them rolling and spend more time with better equipment.
noah
Chris Wells (Head Mechanic & Email Handler)
re-Cycles Bicycle Co-op 477 Bronson Ave. Ottawa
re-Cycles is open 6pm-10pm Tuesdays, Wednesdays & Thursdays (for volunteering, DIY, bike & parts sales & donation drop off) AND SUNDAYS 3pm-6pm for Volunteering and Donations! :-)
Bike sales and donation drop off also available during Cycle Salvation hours: 9am-5:30pm Tuesday to Friday, and 9am-1pm on Saturday
(IMPORTANT: Please remember that while Cycle Salvation will be using our shop during the day, any public bike repair, whether volunteer or do-it-yourself, is still only during regular re-Cycles hours in the evenings.)
info@re-cycles.ca http://www.re-cycles.ca/
I am convinced--though admittedly not for any studied reason-- that many people buy department store bikes because they need cheap transportation, not because they want a cool-looking mountain bike with full suspension and they think they get that at Wal-Mart. Which leads me to believe that there is a market for simple bikes of decent quality that are inexpensive.
When in Mexico City recently I saw a line of bikes that had aluminum wheels, aluminum hubs, aluminum "mustache" handlebars, cheap steel road frames, single-speed freewheels, aluminum platform pedals, aluminum three-piece cranks, and V-brakes. They sold for $75.00 US complete, retail. The bikes looked to me to be completely rebuildable, fairly durable, and pretty efficient to ride.
They seem to be offered as a competitor to the ubiquitous, not-so-good one-speed hundred-dollar Benottos, here: http://www.benotto.com.mx/s_seccion29000/html/elemento.exr?Clave_Elemento=TR...
I believe bike co-ops might be the place to start introducing such a bike to the American consumer, at least in places like Tucson where it is flat and multi-speeds are unnecessary.
But how to do it?
Erik Ryberg
info@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Recently I have seen many examples of new department store bikes with cones TOO tight and some with NO grease in the bearings or anywhere else.
thanks for the link Erik. As I suspected, you can get a high end racing bike for less than $200 in mexico. http://www.benotto.com.mx/s_seccion29000/html/elemento.exr?Clave_Elemento=RR...
On 5/28/08, Erik Ryberg ryberg@seanet.com wrote:
I am convinced--though admittedly not for any studied reason-- that many people buy department store bikes because they need cheap transportation, not because they want a cool-looking mountain bike with full suspension and they think they get that at Wal-Mart. Which leads me to believe that there is a market for simple bikes of decent quality that are inexpensive.
When in Mexico City recently I saw a line of bikes that had aluminum wheels, aluminum hubs, aluminum "mustache" handlebars, cheap steel road frames, single-speed freewheels, aluminum platform pedals, aluminum three-piece cranks, and V-brakes. They sold for $75.00 US complete, retail. The bikes looked to me to be completely rebuildable, fairly durable, and pretty efficient to ride.
They seem to be offered as a competitor to the ubiquitous, not-so-good one-speed hundred-dollar Benottos, here: http://www.benotto.com.mx/s_seccion29000/html/elemento.exr?Clave_Elemento=TR...
I believe bike co-ops might be the place to start introducing such a bike to the American consumer, at least in places like Tucson where it is flat and multi-speeds are unnecessary.
But how to do it?
Erik Ryberg
info@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Recently I have seen many examples of new department store bikes with cones TOO tight and some with NO grease in the bearings or anywhere else.
-- Erik B. Ryberg Attorney at Law 445 West Simpson Street Tucson, AZ 85701 phone: (520) 622-3333 fax: (520) 792-6677 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Erik Ryberg ryberg@seanet.com wrote:
I am convinced--though admittedly not for any studied reason-- that many people buy department store bikes because they need cheap transportation, not because they want a cool-looking mountain bike with full suspension and they think they get that at Wal-Mart. Which leads me to believe that there is a market for simple bikes of decent quality that are inexpensive.
Surely I'm not the only one who's had a fresh Earn-a-biker ready to pick out his bike who sees the shiny new/almost new *NEXT* mountain bike on top of the pile, in all its plastic chain guarded and weird fully suspended glory , and who passes up a much better all around bike that's a little more used, a little less loved, and thinks it's the best bike in the shop? I'm not just talking about kids, either. Grown men who go for the shiny...
interested thread.
Well, I did say _many_ people. Wal-Mart sells those pieces of shite for a reason, and the reason is that there is a huge market for $150.00 bikes that look like what the pros ride . . .
But that doesn't mean we have to concede the whole thing.
Erik Ryberg
veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Erik Ryberg <ryberg@seanet.com mailto:ryberg@seanet.com> wrote:
I am convinced--though admittedly not for any studied reason-- that many people buy department store bikes because they need cheap transportation, not because they want a cool-looking mountain bike with full suspension and they think they get that at Wal-Mart. Which leads me to believe that there is a market for simple bikes of decent quality that are inexpensive.Surely I'm not the only one who's had a fresh Earn-a-biker ready to pick out his bike who sees the shiny new/almost new /NEXT/ mountain bike on top of the pile, in all its plastic chain guarded and weird fully suspended glory , and who passes up a much better all around bike that's a little more used, a little less loved, and thinks it's the best bike in the shop? I'm not just talking about kids, either. Grown men who go for the shiny...
interested thread.
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On 28-May-08, at 3:19 PM, Erik Ryberg wrote:
I am convinced--though admittedly not for any studied reason-- that
many people buy department store bikes because they need cheap
transportation, not because they want a cool-looking mountain bike
with full suspension and they think they get that at Wal-Mart.
Which leads me to believe that there is a market for simple bikes
of decent quality that are inexpensive.
I think it can go both ways, as some folks do get seduced by the idea
of a full-susp. bike for only $200.
Get this - I had a guy challenge me as to the pricing of our
overhauled bikes. He could not understand why a shiny (but crappy)
Huffy full-suspension bike was selling for less than the cosmetically-
challenged basic Rocky Mountain mtb. beside it. This guy was in his
60's, and all he could see was "shiny equals good". I told him that
the Rocky Mtn. was a much better bike, and for street riding (with
slick tires) vastly preferable to the Huffy, but he didn't seem to
get it...
Mark
Low-End Bike Soap Box: A Mechanic's Perspective
Some credentials: I trained as an apprentice mechanic under the one (good) eye of a master craftsman named Peter Kerezman in Kingsville, TX from 1983-89. I have managed two repair-oriented neighborhood stores for a total of about three years, and worked in several others. My favorite bike shop tool is the electric grinder, second favorite, a head-tube "finisher" which makes pressed cups right and headsets last. Third favorite, the old blue Wheelsmith repair manual, with 2- and 3-speed hub breakdowns and lucid wheel-building instructions and theory.
Yes, I own a two-thousand dollar road bike (with twelve-year-old Dura-Ace/Ultegra), and I'm biased towards repair stands vs. home repair when available.
My opinion: Wal-mart bikes are just fine if they are properly dis- and re-assembled. And I respect the Chinese sweat that went into them just like I do the well-paid welding or carbon-fiber work of an American craftsperson. I respect even more the people who pedal them around town, and I always defer to their grace while spinning effortlessly up a hill on my sub-20 pounder.
Shamefully, Wal-mart bikes are, or are strongly perceived to be, THE most affordable ready-to-ride geared bikes for the working poor, bar none. What they need is our help selecting them and putting them together if they insist on buying one.
Recommendation Uno: no suspension, especially soft-tails. It's heavy and it's cheap and it breaks. People think it looks cool, convince them otherwise. If you can't argue for the elegance and weight-savings of a full-hard, just ask someone the dessert island question: would you rather be stuck with a cane pole or the latest tackle gadgetry?
Numero Dos: Explain to folk that they should buy it in the box and take it to you and help put it together with love. Wal-mart/Etc. don't pay their employees enough to grease your cables and all the metal-to-metal contacts, to properly torque the crankarm bolts, to tweak and (typically as needed) tighten the spokes and true the wheels, to remove the wheels and adjust the cones, or even to properly center the stem and inflate the tires. We need some non-commercial version of the Pete Kerezman special (ca. 1985): bring us the box and we'll build it right for cheap.
Some other things you can do if you are more ambitious: unpack and regrease the bottom bracket. The quality of grease is typically low from the factory. I only recommend this for high-precipitation environments. Also, you can usually trim the cable housing to a more reasonable length for better braking and derailleur performance.
I think the bias here is largely from (ahem . . . commercial mechanic's soapbox) those who have assembled very few boxed bikes, or from those commercial mechanics who aspire to work in the rare PRO shop. It is ironic that most older pro mechanics I know will cuss and steam, but then confess that low-end is fine if assemble d properly and suspension avoided.
The point is don't be a Surly-Campy-Orbea gear-head, dance with the folk, and think of the worst bikes as One Less Car.
Solidarity,
James Thompson
This sounds alright. However saying wal-mart bikes are fine if properly dis-and-reassembled effectively doesn't count. Nobody besides bike mechanics/enthusiasts/whatever knows that, so until that information is readily accessible and the means to do so are accessable to those would be riders, the point is unfortunately moot and that person is riding a bike that is destroying itself. This is I think the biggest issue, beyond the wild-eyed dream of doing a competing commuter bike to the department store bike. I respect the labor of Chinese laborers to be sure, but that doesn't mean that that 'honest' labor is similarly exploited by those department stores just as they're effectively exploiting those people who can't afford more on a new bike. We coops/collectives whatnot do recycling older bicycles best, and there's no doubt that this is one of the silver bullets that can be shot out against department store bikes. But is there not more? I'm not trying to evangelize, I'm not trying to get people on bicycles per se, but there are a lot of people out there who ride bikes but don't know what they're riding and shouldn't be forced by what they don't know to be riding a P.O.S.
I think that there's a fair distinction, though one that's often blurred, between a criticism of the bikes and those who ride them. The snobby, gear-head that dwells in the black part of all our hearts might be doing the latter, but we need to find the former aspect and find ways to discourage and do away with those awful bikes so that the people who most need bikes, whether students, invisible riders, or people who just can't afford gas anymore, can ride without worry and not have to buy the obsolescence of their bicycle as a hidden cost over the $150/200. Until we hit that magic solution, we should keep recycling, keep reaching out to the communities we're in and involved with, and keep doing repairs on whatever comes into the shop.
-sherief
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 5:52 PM, james thompson jtexconsult@gmail.com wrote:
Low-End Bike Soap Box: A Mechanic's Perspective
Some credentials: I trained as an apprentice mechanic under the one (good) eye of a master craftsman named Peter Kerezman in Kingsville, TX from 1983-89. I have managed two repair-oriented neighborhood stores for a total of about three years, and worked in several others. My favorite bike shop tool is the electric grinder, second favorite, a head-tube "finisher" which makes pressed cups right and headsets last. Third favorite, the old blue Wheelsmith repair manual, with 2- and 3-speed hub breakdowns and lucid wheel-building instructions and theory.
Yes, I own a two-thousand dollar road bike (with twelve-year-old Dura-Ace/Ultegra), and I'm biased towards repair stands vs. home repair when available.
My opinion: Wal-mart bikes are just fine if they are properly dis- and re-assembled. And I respect the Chinese sweat that went into them just like I do the well-paid welding or carbon-fiber work of an American craftsperson. I respect even more the people who pedal them around town, and I always defer to their grace while spinning effortlessly up a hill on my sub-20 pounder.
Shamefully, Wal-mart bikes are, or are strongly perceived to be, THE most affordable ready-to-ride geared bikes for the working poor, bar none. What they need is our help selecting them and putting them together if they insist on buying one.
Recommendation Uno: no suspension, especially soft-tails. It's heavy and it's cheap and it breaks. People think it looks cool, convince them otherwise. If you can't argue for the elegance and weight-savings of a full-hard, just ask someone the dessert island question: would you rather be stuck with a cane pole or the latest tackle gadgetry?
Numero Dos: Explain to folk that they should buy it in the box and take it to you and help put it together with love. Wal-mart/Etc. don't pay their employees enough to grease your cables and all the metal-to-metal contacts, to properly torque the crankarm bolts, to tweak and (typically as needed) tighten the spokes and true the wheels, to remove the wheels and adjust the cones, or even to properly center the stem and inflate the tires. We need some non-commercial version of the Pete Kerezman special (ca. 1985): bring us the box and we'll build it right for cheap.
Some other things you can do if you are more ambitious: unpack and regrease the bottom bracket. The quality of grease is typically low from the factory. I only recommend this for high-precipitation environments. Also, you can usually trim the cable housing to a more reasonable length for better braking and derailleur performance.
I think the bias here is largely from (ahem . . . commercial mechanic's soapbox) those who have assembled very few boxed bikes, or from those commercial mechanics who aspire to work in the rare PRO shop. It is ironic that most older pro mechanics I know will cuss and steam, but then confess that low-end is fine if assemble d properly and suspension avoided.
The point is don't be a Surly-Campy-Orbea gear-head, dance with the folk, and think of the worst bikes as One Less Car.
Solidarity,
James Thompson _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
And let's not forget that most dept. store bike assembly people are
paid per bike. I've heard some fun stories of bikes with cranks out
of alignment with each other, forks in backward, and terrible cable
routing (so bad the bike cannot shift or brake properly) but hey, the
bike got "assembled" and so that person got paid and the sales staff
can deal with the resulting issues...
Mark
On 30-May-08, at 4:18 PM, Sherief wrote:
This sounds alright. However saying wal-mart bikes are fine if
properly dis-and-reassembled effectively doesn't count. Nobody
besides bike mechanics/enthusiasts/whatever knows that, so until
that information is readily accessible and the means to do so are
accessable to those would be riders, the point is unfortunately
moot and that person is riding a bike that is destroying itself.
This is I think the biggest issue, beyond the wild-eyed dream of
doing a competing commuter bike to the department store bike. I
respect the labor of Chinese laborers to be sure, but that doesn't
mean that that 'honest' labor is similarly exploited by those
department stores just as they're effectively exploiting those
people who can't afford more on a new bike. We coops/collectives
whatnot do recycling older bicycles best, and there's no doubt that
this is one of the silver bullets that can be shot out against
department store bikes. But is there not more? I'm not trying to
evangelize, I'm not trying to get people on bicycles per se, but
there are a lot of people out there who ride bikes but don't know
what they're riding and shouldn't be forced by what they don't know
to be riding a P.O.S.I think that there's a fair distinction, though one that's often
blurred, between a criticism of the bikes and those who ride them.
The snobby, gear-head that dwells in the black part of all our
hearts might be doing the latter, but we need to find the former
aspect and find ways to discourage and do away with those awful
bikes so that the people who most need bikes, whether students,
invisible riders, or people who just can't afford gas anymore, can
ride without worry and not have to buy the obsolescence of their
bicycle as a hidden cost over the $150/200. Until we hit that
magic solution, we should keep recycling, keep reaching out to the
communities we're in and involved with, and keep doing repairs on
whatever comes into the shop.-sherief
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 5:52 PM, james thompson
jtexconsult@gmail.com wrote: Low-End Bike Soap Box: A Mechanic's PerspectiveSome credentials: I trained as an apprentice mechanic under the one (good) eye of a master craftsman named Peter Kerezman in Kingsville, TX from 1983-89. I have managed two repair-oriented neighborhood stores for a total of about three years, and worked in several others. My favorite bike shop tool is the electric grinder, second favorite, a head-tube "finisher" which makes pressed cups right and headsets last. Third favorite, the old blue Wheelsmith repair manual, with 2- and 3-speed hub breakdowns and lucid wheel-building instructions and theory.
Yes, I own a two-thousand dollar road bike (with twelve-year-old Dura-Ace/Ultegra), and I'm biased towards repair stands vs. home repair when available.
My opinion: Wal-mart bikes are just fine if they are properly dis- and re-assembled. And I respect the Chinese sweat that went into them just like I do the well-paid welding or carbon-fiber work of an American craftsperson. I respect even more the people who pedal them around town, and I always defer to their grace while spinning effortlessly up a hill on my sub-20 pounder.
Shamefully, Wal-mart bikes are, or are strongly perceived to be, THE most affordable ready-to-ride geared bikes for the working poor, bar none. What they need is our help selecting them and putting them together if they insist on buying one.
Recommendation Uno: no suspension, especially soft-tails. It's heavy and it's cheap and it breaks. People think it looks cool, convince them otherwise. If you can't argue for the elegance and weight-savings of a full-hard, just ask someone the dessert island question: would you rather be stuck with a cane pole or the latest tackle gadgetry?
Numero Dos: Explain to folk that they should buy it in the box and take it to you and help put it together with love. Wal-mart/Etc. don't pay their employees enough to grease your cables and all the metal-to-metal contacts, to properly torque the crankarm bolts, to tweak and (typically as needed) tighten the spokes and true the wheels, to remove the wheels and adjust the cones, or even to properly center the stem and inflate the tires. We need some non-commercial version of the Pete Kerezman special (ca. 1985): bring us the box and we'll build it right for cheap.
Some other things you can do if you are more ambitious: unpack and regrease the bottom bracket. The quality of grease is typically low from the factory. I only recommend this for high-precipitation environments. Also, you can usually trim the cable housing to a more reasonable length for better braking and derailleur performance.
I think the bias here is largely from (ahem . . . commercial mechanic's soapbox) those who have assembled very few boxed bikes, or from those commercial mechanics who aspire to work in the rare PRO shop. It is ironic that most older pro mechanics I know will cuss and steam, but then confess that low-end is fine if assemble d properly and suspension avoided.
The point is don't be a Surly-Campy-Orbea gear-head, dance with the folk, and think of the worst bikes as One Less Car.
Solidarity,
James Thompson _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- bikecollectives.org
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- bikecollectives.org
Circumstances required me to buy a new girls' 20" bike off the dept. store floor. Checking it out, there were 3 things wrong with it right there, including not nearly enough air in the tires. When I asked the guy working bikes if we could inflate the tires, his reply was, "We don't have a pump." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--- On Fri, 5/30/08, Mark Rehder <mark@re-cycles.ca> wrote: From: Mark Rehder <mark@re-cycles.ca> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] bicycle shaped objects To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@bikecollectives.org> Date: Friday, May 30, 2008, 5:24 PM
And let's not forget that most dept. store bike assembly people are
paid per bike. I've heard some fun stories of bikes with cranks out
of alignment with each other, forks in backward, and terrible cable
routing (so bad the bike cannot shift or brake properly) but hey, the
bike got "assembled" and so that person got paid and the sales staff
can deal with the resulting issues...
Mark
On 30-May-08, at 4:18 PM, Sherief wrote:
> This sounds alright. However saying wal-mart bikes are fine if
> properly dis-and-reassembled effectively doesn't count. Nobody
> besides bike mechanics/enthusiasts/whatever knows that, so until
> that information is readily accessible and the means to do so are
> accessable to those would be riders, the point is unfortunately
> moot and that person is riding a bike that is destroying itself.
> This is I think the biggest issue, beyond the wild-eyed dream of
> doing a competing commuter bike to the department store bike. I
> respect the labor of Chinese laborers to be sure, but that doesn't
> mean that that 'honest' labor is similarly exploited by those
> department stores just as they're effectively exploiting those
> people who can't afford more on a new bike. We coops/collectives
> whatnot do recycling older bicycles best, and there's no doubt that
> this is one of the silver bullets that can be shot out against
> department store bikes. But is there not more? I'm not trying to
> evangelize, I'm not trying to get people on bicycles per se, but
> there are a lot of people out there who ride bikes but don't know
> what they're riding and shouldn't be forced by what they don't
know
> to be riding a P.O.S.
>
> I think that there's a fair distinction, though one that's often
> blurred, between a criticism of the bikes and those who ride them.
> The snobby, gear-head that dwells in the black part of all our
> hearts might be doing the latter, but we need to find the former
> aspect and find ways to discourage and do away with those awful
> bikes so that the people who most need bikes, whether students,
> invisible riders, or people who just can't afford gas anymore, can
> ride without worry and not have to buy the obsolescence of their
> bicycle as a hidden cost over the $150/200. Until we hit that
> magic solution, we should keep recycling, keep reaching out to the
> communities we're in and involved with, and keep doing repairs on
> whatever comes into the shop.
>
> -sherief
>
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 5:52 PM, james thompson
> <jtexconsult@gmail.com> wrote:
> Low-End Bike Soap Box: A Mechanic's Perspective
>
> Some credentials: I trained as an apprentice mechanic under the one
> (good) eye of a master craftsman named Peter Kerezman in Kingsville,
> TX from 1983-89. I have managed two repair-oriented neighborhood
> stores for a total of about three years, and worked in several others.
> My favorite bike shop tool is the electric grinder, second favorite,
> a head-tube "finisher" which makes pressed cups right and
headsets
> last. Third favorite, the old blue Wheelsmith repair manual, with 2-
> and 3-speed hub breakdowns and lucid wheel-building instructions and
> theory.
>
> Yes, I own a two-thousand dollar road bike (with twelve-year-old
> Dura-Ace/Ultegra), and I'm biased towards repair stands vs. home
> repair when available.
>
> My opinion: Wal-mart bikes are just fine if they are properly dis- and
> re-assembled. And I respect the Chinese sweat that went into them
> just like I do the well-paid welding or carbon-fiber work of an
> American craftsperson. I respect even more the people who pedal them
> around town, and I always defer to their grace while spinning
> effortlessly up a hill on my sub-20 pounder.
>
> Shamefully, Wal-mart bikes are, or are strongly perceived to be, THE
> most affordable ready-to-ride geared bikes for the working poor, bar
> none. What they need is our help selecting them and putting them
> together if they insist on buying one.
>
> Recommendation Uno: no suspension, especially soft-tails. It's heavy
> and it's cheap and it breaks. People think it looks cool, convince
> them otherwise. If you can't argue for the elegance and
> weight-savings of a full-hard, just ask someone the dessert island
> question: would you rather be stuck with a cane pole or the latest
> tackle gadgetry?
>
> Numero Dos: Explain to folk that they should buy it in the box and
> take it to you and help put it together with love. Wal-mart/Etc.
> don't pay their employees enough to grease your cables and all the
> metal-to-metal contacts, to properly torque the crankarm bolts, to
> tweak and (typically as needed) tighten the spokes and true the
> wheels, to remove the wheels and adjust the cones, or even to properly
> center the stem and inflate the tires. We need some non-commercial
> version of the Pete Kerezman special (ca. 1985): bring us the box and
> we'll build it right for cheap.
>
> Some other things you can do if you are more ambitious: unpack and
> regrease the bottom bracket. The quality of grease is typically low
> from the factory. I only recommend this for high-precipitation
> environments. Also, you can usually trim the cable housing to a more
> reasonable length for better braking and derailleur performance.
>
> I think the bias here is largely from (ahem . . . commercial
> mechanic's soapbox) those who have assembled very few boxed bikes, or
> from those commercial mechanics who aspire to work in the rare PRO
> shop. It is ironic that most older pro mechanics I know will cuss and
> steam, but then confess that low-end is fine if assemble d properly
> and suspension avoided.
>
> The point is don't be a Surly-Campy-Orbea gear-head, dance with the
> folk, and think of the worst bikes as One Less Car.
>
> Solidarity,
>
> James Thompson
> _______________________________________________
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> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-
> bikecollectives.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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> bikecollectives.org
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
On 11-May-08, at 8:01 AM, bike against wrote:
(snip)
- WE ARE THE ULTIMATE TESTERS -
That's for sure! Last year, when I was putting in a tool request to
MEC, I asked for one of the pricier Topeak floor pumps. MEC now
carries the Filzer brand of gear (since Park no longer sells to them)
and they asked us to try the cheaper Filzer pump because "if any can
test a bike product it's your shop!". And they're right!
And that pump has actually held up quite well, except for the handle
coming off (it was just glued on) and a bit of electrical tape
wrapped in various ways solved that problem. I've just ordered
another one, as well as a replacement head and hose to keep one of
our older no-Filzer pumps functioning.
I also ordered four of the 2-notch Suntour freewheel removers,
because we know that's an item that dies on a regular basis.
Mark
We (Kickstand) contacted Park tools directly, and they offered us a sponsorship price list. We do not yet have nonprofit status, so this was great for us after often being turned down for not having 501(c)(3). Every one seems to want/need the tax write-off. The prices we have through Park are considerably better than wholesale.
Each time we order we have to contact Park again and ask permission to use the price list, and then order within a certain time frame. They explained this is to prove that we are serious, and are not going to abuse the privilege.
vyki
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 11-May-08, at 8:01 AM, bike against wrote:
(snip)
- WE ARE THE ULTIMATE TESTERS -That's for sure! Last year, when I was putting in a tool request to MEC, I asked for one of the pricier Topeak floor pumps. MEC now carries the Filzer brand of gear (since Park no longer sells to them) and they asked us to try the cheaper Filzer pump because "if any can test a bike product it's your shop!". And they're right!
And that pump has actually held up quite well, except for the handle coming off (it was just glued on) and a bit of electrical tape wrapped in various ways solved that problem. I've just ordered another one, as well as a replacement head and hose to keep one of our older no-Filzer pumps functioning.
I also ordered four of the 2-notch Suntour freewheel removers, because we know that's an item that dies on a regular basis.
Mark
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Another idea, which just might be too crazy to attempt.
I'm part of our local Slow Food chapter. (slowfoodusa.org) vs local chapter (slowfoodgainesville.org) Slow Food's national organization has all of its legal paperwork straight, and nonprofit status. As a chapter, we only had to apply for our own Federal Employment Identification number (EIN), no crazy paperwork. No long wait from the IRS about nonprofit status. We were immediately up and running.
You can see where i'm headed with this, and this might be crazy...
The idea would be to make bikecollectives.org Its own organization, and allow small groups to apply to be chapters, (or not.) This could potentially make it a lot easier for start up collectives/co-ops. To ask for help from there local governments, police departments, to get the word out...
but then again, this would take an intense amount of effort, and one hell of a BOD. And more than that impeccable organization skills. The more I write, the less likely this seems possible.
Anyways, I'm all for working out some organization on a large scale.
Ex: Last night I received a call about a gentleman who lives in south florida, and runs a nonprofit bike shop, where he takes bikes and fixes them up for kids, (and the local Guatemalan population that is very short and rides kids bicycles.) He can't get rid of adult bikes, no one wants them. If he can he sells them for $10 to at least be able to buy a few tubes for the kids bikes.
(We do not currently have an overstock of bicycles)
Where he lives in South Florida it is impossible to cycle as a method of transportation. The cities are made up of 8-lane highways between neighborhoods, and things are so spaced out. Currently he has three warehouses of adult bicycles (quite a few in very good condition) that he is paying rent on. He is also about to acquire a warehouse space that has 2500 bicycles in it. After talking to one of our members, he is interested in selling/donating them to us.
Next step for me, work out details of how much money/effort is required to purchase/transport the large quantity of bicycles. And a system for distributing them to the collectives nearest us, provided they are interested. (st.Augustine, jacksonville, orlando, tallahasse, maybe savannah?)
vyki
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Vyki Englert vyki.englert@thekickstand.org wrote:
We (Kickstand) contacted Park tools directly, and they offered us a sponsorship price list. We do not yet have nonprofit status, so this was great for us after often being turned down for not having 501(c)(3). Every one seems to want/need the tax write-off. The prices we have through Park are considerably better than wholesale.
Each time we order we have to contact Park again and ask permission to use the price list, and then order within a certain time frame. They explained this is to prove that we are serious, and are not going to abuse the privilege.
vyki
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
On 11-May-08, at 8:01 AM, bike against wrote:
(snip)
- WE ARE THE ULTIMATE TESTERS -That's for sure! Last year, when I was putting in a tool request to MEC, I asked for one of the pricier Topeak floor pumps. MEC now carries the Filzer brand of gear (since Park no longer sells to them) and they asked us to try the cheaper Filzer pump because "if any can test a bike product it's your shop!". And they're right!
And that pump has actually held up quite well, except for the handle coming off (it was just glued on) and a bit of electrical tape wrapped in various ways solved that problem. I've just ordered another one, as well as a replacement head and hose to keep one of our older no-Filzer pumps functioning.
I also ordered four of the 2-notch Suntour freewheel removers, because we know that's an item that dies on a regular basis.
Mark
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
participants (16)
-
adam schwartz -
bike against -
Bruce Lien -
Cuper -
Erik Ryberg -
Gary Gingras -
Gern Blanston -
info＠re-cycles.ca -
james thompson -
Jonathan Morrison -
Mark Rehder -
Michael Wolfe -
reno bikes -
Sherief -
veganboyjosh＠gmail.com -
Vyki Englert