I'd just as soon keep the discussion on list, since Weed and Seed is a national program that other shops may need to decide about becoming involved with in the future. It's also a discussion that's personally interesting to me, so if it does go off list please keep me cc:ed.
Stuart
On Dec 17, 2007 1:08 PM, veganboyjosh@gmail.com wrote:
i've not participated in the discussion thus far, but i am reading it with much interest. it's a thought i've had with regards to some of the money/resources community cycles in boulder may have access to, and has in the past. if the discussion does go off the list, please include me. I'm very interested.
thanks.
josh.
On Dec 17, 2007 11:02 AM, Urban Bike Project of Wilmington, Inc. urbanbikeproject@gmail.com wrote:
I am beginning to understand a little better, thank you. It calls to mind
a local bike racing team which is sponsored by Valero (formerly Motiva) which has the distinction of being the past, present and probably future "biggest air polluter in DE".... the irony is fantastic here and I don't think anyone is really fooled into thinking Valero has changed its ways.
This also brings to mind a huge debate we had when we were talking about
starting a community bike shop. Do we accept donations from corporations who are merely trying to look good (PR baby) and possibly cover up past or present transgressions? We never truly decided anything and honestly it's never even come up, until now I guess. I'm inclined to accept the Weed And Seed grant. Should a community turn down a PAL (Police Athletic League) center as a broader statement against policing practices?? What good would that achieve? It only equates to one less opportunity for youth to better themselves in mind and body. I'd rather see these kids in our shop in a supportive environment, learning mechanical skills, which so many of them lack, and coming away with a greater sense of mobility and pride in their own accomplishment.
We differ from many of the groups represented here in that we have no
moral agenda to proselytize. We're not gonna turn people into vegans as much as we're gonna turn "average person in america" into a 20-mile round trip to work everyday bike commuter. We try to start small and create an environment that everyone can feel comfortable in (not just people who think like us or live like us). I personally admit to wearing spandex on rides of 10 or more miles, I eat meat, I usually vote Democrat (sometimes Republican), I admit to riding and racing a bike that could be (or was a few years ago) valued at over $1,000..a number that was scoffed at with disdain on a recent post. Would I be welcome in your shop to wrench alongside fixies, cuffed pants and helmet-less riders?
We try to do the right thing but we are about bikes first. Don't get me
wrong, we're not accepting money from Valero as they truly are a horrible company with things to hide/cover up but when you're talking about money that is available for use to help kids in our city with nothing else I'm inclined to take it and turn it into something positive.
Macho/Andrew/Others....would you like to continue this discussion
elsewhere? We could set up a forum or at least a private list so we won't be filling up inboxes across the country(ies). Or if this an interest of the list as a whole I'm all for it.
I know I'm very opinionated...If there is one thing we can agree on it's
that most of us here are, thank you again,
Brian
On Dec 17, 2007 11:46 AM, Macho Philipovich < macho@resist.ca> wrote:
I'm sorry if the way I'm talking about this is unclear. I'll try to explain better.
It's similar to the idea of "greenwashing" in the environmental movement. Big industrial polluters will throw token grants at progressive environmental initiatives to give themselves a nice clean image and to deflect criticism of their broader business practices, so that they can continue as usual, only more smoothly.
I'd look at "weed and seed" in the same way, though that particular program doesn't exist in Canada. In what are considered "bad" neighbourhoods, which usually means ones with lots of people who have found themselves at the wrong end of systemic racism, economic exploitation, etc., the police's main role (through things like "weeding") is to keep those folks pacified, marginalized, and out of sight. When the police then get accused of racial profiling, using "excessive" violence, or other misconduct (as they do all the time in Canada, and I can't imagine it's much different in the U.S.), they can then turn around say "No, you have it all wrong! We care about the community. Look how we're giving bikes to underprivileged kids."
In that way the bike shop is complicit in the broader process of neighbourhood social cleansing, usually called gentrification.
I hope that explanation works better. Let me know.
macho http://bike-dump.ca
Urban Bike Project of Wilmington, Inc. wrote:
"presumably this project will be part of the "seeding" side of things. one thing i would look into is what is done on the "weeding" side." "legitimizing this kind of police action"
Macho, I'd like to hear more about this, not sure what kind of police action would be legitimized by our accepting 3,500 and using it to help at-risk kids. He's a police officer who patrols presumably bad neighborhoods already and would like to give kids another option in addition to PAL or Boy's/Girl's Club centers. I am try to see all sides of the picture.
Andrew, 3,500 doesn't seem like much but consider that all the bikes are donated and many are in perfect shape to begin with. I am still concerned but I spoke with David Hoffman of Free Ride/Bike PGH the other day and he took me through how we can still manage it.
We project the approximate cost of giving one kid a bike. This would be calculated in terms of amount of shop time (electric, rent), amount of staff time (we may pay a stipend to a coordinator), and, on average, dollar amount of parts needed. Using that number we will set a maximum amount of participants in a given time frame (month/week whatever), adjusting for more volume in the summer, less in the cold months. That way we don't find ourselves in the unfortunate situation of having to scramble to raise funds, draining our savings or risking cancellation of the program.
We are meeting with him (his name is Brian too, it's wierd) tomorrow to come up with concrete plan and make everything less vague.
Sincere thanks to both you guys for weighing in,
Brian Windle UBP
On Dec 15, 2007 5:44 PM, Andrew Bushaw < plan_9@riseup.net
mailto:plan_9@riseup.net> wrote:
In addition to what macho brought up, what happens when the police money for the program dries up and you can't afford to fund it anymore? If you keep it, you are doing the police a service without compensation, and if you end the program, people will point the finger at your shop for pulling the program rather than the funding source. 3,500 seemslike a
pretty meager amount of funding for what they want, especiallysince
what they want seems pretty vaguely defined. Andrew FM Community Bicycle Workshop _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org <mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org>http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
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