Yes indeed. Conversations are good. Have them. But please realize you can respond to just the peoples you are having the conversation with, by typing in their emails. Ahhh---the internet. Helpful for keeping down on the frustration. Cheers,
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM, N.O.Bike Project < nolabikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:
To all involved,
This kind of bullshit makes this listserve suck. Please stop.
Love,
Non-gender specific Plan B
Bike City wrote:
Ho hum, I see, you're aware. I'm a nagging, ignorant, uppity bitch. I'm so hysterical (OMG REVERSE SEXISM!) that you will just dismiss and ignore me.
Don't worry, almost all dudes get defensive in exactly the same way when their privilege is challenged. But the best part is you can better yourself if you try!
http://www.uh.edu/~cnathen/feminist.jpghttp://www.uh.edu/%7Ecnathen/feminist.jpg
Andrea
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@drumbent.com wrote:
Yeah, I'm aware, believe me. You know nothing about me so stop insisting on my ignorance. You've got enough irrational hate going on (just as bad as what I hear some men say about women) that I can't take you seriously.
My apologies to the list - this is my last post on this subject.
Mark
On 28-Dec-09, at 1:55 AM, Bike City wrote:
Understanding Patriarchy by bell hooks http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/20613.php
On 12/28/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
Great, another broad-brush piece. If you are going to continue to insist that we're all beasts then I'm afraid there's not much chance of dialogue. Your energy could perhaps be better spent trying to get the good guys to help in dealing with the bad ones, but I doubt you're interested in the concept of men having positive things to offer.
Mark
On 27-Dec-09, at 5:58 PM, Bike City wrote:
Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women: On Abuse of Activist Women by Activist Men http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/feminist/activist_abuse.html
On 12/27/09, Mark Rehder mark@re-cycles.ca wrote:
> On 27-Dec-09, at 5:38 AM, Bike City wrote: > > (snip) > > > >> More generally, white dudes got us in this mess we're in. >> Oppression >> is completely unsustainable. Now their colonizing, industrializing >> asses want to be in charge of the clean up crew? They have a >> thoroughly dastardly track record, so if they're not going to let >> anyone else have a turn, we'd better at least keep an eye on 'em. >> >> > You are guilty of the same attitude if you are going to use this > broad a brush. > > With each community bike collective someone saw a need and got one > going. The bike biz has been mainly male-oriented, so mainly guys > have started these shops. But it does not have to stay that > way, and > at least these shops get started, and are presumably / hopefully > being inclusive. And this model is ideally a step forward compared > to a typical for-profit consume-all sports store. > > Please let us know of any examples where women were told "no, you > cannot start a community bike shop, only men can do that". Yes, > the > bike industry in general can be fairly "macho", which is why I > would > much rather be with our community bike shop than a typical for- > profit > one. We've created it, and we can set its tone. Maybe our type of > shop will be the way of the future, pushing out the old macho for- > profit consume-all crap? > > Your anger may prevent you from believing that there actually > are men > who have been aware of the oppression and sexism from early in > their > lives, and have been trying to do something about it (just as there > were white people who helped put an end to slavery). A guy can > often > make himself very unpopular with other men when he calls them on > their behaviour (sexist, racist, whatever). But it needs to be > done, > for everyone's sake. And sure, feel free to "keep an eye on us" as > we try to fight the crap... > > Mark > > _______________________________________________
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