tip jars at bike collectives
Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
Without analyzing this in too much depth I would say "no". I could see it being confused for a donation jar causing possible consternation from a donor.
- Sam
Probably a bad idea, especially for those with formal status (e.g. 501(c)3). Volunteers could be rewarded from donations (e.g. pizza) even if all the donations are used, but some sort of independent discretion should be involved. And, direct cash distributions look bad to IRS and state employment regulators.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Sam Haraldson sam@bozemanbikekitchen.org wrote:
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put
one out during a shift.
Without analyzing this in too much depth I would say "no". I could see it being confused for a donation jar causing possible consternation from a donor.
- Sam
-- http://bozemanbikekitchen.org
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Without knowing your specific situation, I think it's also problematic for two non-tax/appearances reasons:
- Volunteers should be there to support the project, etc, not for personal
profit. While there usually are benefits to the volunteer like learning new skills, if they're there for the money they're not really a volunteer. Setting out a tip jar sends the signal that the volunteer doesn't really understand their role there.
- Policy changes at a co-op/collective should be a group decision imo.
It's not much of a collective if everybody sets their own rules for the space. Maybe I misunderstood something but taking tips without clearing it with the rest of the collective kinda implies that the volunteer doesn't take the group process seriously. Den 23/04/2015 13.39 skrev "momoko saunders" analyst@bikefarm.org:
Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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Yeah, I agree with everything you all are saying. I felt really put off when I saw it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reacting too strongly.
I like how you point out that it suggests that the volunteer does not understand the collective process, or what the role of volunteering is.
Thank you for your thoughts! -momoko
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, samuelchristianjensen@gmail.com wrote:
Without knowing your specific situation, I think it's also problematic for two non-tax/appearances reasons:
- Volunteers should be there to support the project, etc, not for
personal profit. While there usually are benefits to the volunteer like learning new skills, if they're there for the money they're not really a volunteer. Setting out a tip jar sends the signal that the volunteer doesn't really understand their role there.
- Policy changes at a co-op/collective should be a group decision imo.
It's not much of a collective if everybody sets their own rules for the space. Maybe I misunderstood something but taking tips without clearing it with the rest of the collective kinda implies that the volunteer doesn't take the group process seriously. Den 23/04/2015 13.39 skrev "momoko saunders" analyst@bikefarm.org:
Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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I like the idea of a donation jar, suggesting it is bring funneled back into the cause. A top jar would turn me off. Thanks for asking
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:23 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Yeah, I agree with everything you all are saying. I felt really put off when I saw it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reacting too strongly.
I like how you point out that it suggests that the volunteer does not understand the collective process, or what the role of volunteering is.
Thank you for your thoughts! -momoko
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, samuelchristianjensen@gmail.com wrote: Without knowing your specific situation, I think it's also problematic for two non-tax/appearances reasons:
Volunteers should be there to support the project, etc, not for personal profit. While there usually are benefits to the volunteer like learning new skills, if they're there for the money they're not really a volunteer. Setting out a tip jar sends the signal that the volunteer doesn't really understand their role there.
Policy changes at a co-op/collective should be a group decision imo. It's not much of a collective if everybody sets their own rules for the space. Maybe I misunderstood something but taking tips without clearing it with the rest of the collective kinda implies that the volunteer doesn't take the group process seriously.
Den 23/04/2015 13.39 skrev "momoko saunders" analyst@bikefarm.org:
Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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Volunteers expecting quid pro quo or expecting or taking tips (and not dropping them into the donations) makes me feel ill.
But I have had a long time volunteer who has spent time all along the income scale, including at the very bottom, say, essentially, "You have all these high-falutin values because you can afford to. When you're broke and looking at hunger or nowhere to sleep, your viewpoint changes really fast."
I still don't agree that people should take, or Goddess forbid, ask for, any money for labor at the Bike Project. I won't stand for a formal policy that allows or encourages such things. But I have to accept that I can't control exactly how everyone does things at the Bike Project.
On Apr 23, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Beth Barnes <islow4bikes@gmail.commailto:islow4bikes@gmail.com> wrote:
I like the idea of a donation jar, suggesting it is bring funneled back into the cause. A top jar would turn me off. Thanks for asking
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:23 PM, momoko saunders <analyst@bikefarm.orgmailto:analyst@bikefarm.org> wrote:
Yeah, I agree with everything you all are saying. I felt really put off when I saw it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reacting too strongly.
I like how you point out that it suggests that the volunteer does not understand the collective process, or what the role of volunteering is.
Thank you for your thoughts! -momoko
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, <samuelchristianjensen@gmail.commailto:samuelchristianjensen@gmail.com> wrote:
Without knowing your specific situation, I think it's also problematic for two non-tax/appearances reasons:
Volunteers should be there to support the project, etc, not for personal profit. While there usually are benefits to the volunteer like learning new skills, if they're there for the money they're not really a volunteer. Setting out a tip jar sends the signal that the volunteer doesn't really understand their role there.
Policy changes at a co-op/collective should be a group decision imo. It's not much of a collective if everybody sets their own rules for the space. Maybe I misunderstood something but taking tips without clearing it with the rest of the collective kinda implies that the volunteer doesn't take the group process seriously.
Den 23/04/2015 13.39 skrev "momoko saunders" <analyst@bikefarm.orgmailto:analyst@bikefarm.org>: Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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I see the issue of tip jars from multiple angles. In any case where I see it OK it needs to be very clear what/who the money is for and it should only be there if all agree it should. At the bikerowave we have a tip jar, the money is there only to be used to get snacks or the like for those on the shift to use on that shift or just after. In most cases this is the burrito fund. Excess money is stored for the next time that weekly shift happens. Folks aren't supposed to take money from the jar to take home or spend elsewhere. This set up came about after careful and thorough discussion among the membership. Anything otherwise I would consider a violation of trust and a violation of the will of the collective. We are not a 501c3 but I figured folks that are can call it a shift meal donation or the like. As long as the purpose is explicitly expresses I think it can have a real positive impact on the volunteers. Tips could go towards snacks for the shift, or snacks at the meetings, or to fund social get togethers all of which could have a positive impact on drawing and maintaining volunteers.
Loconte
On Apr 23, 2015, at 2:26 PM, Martin, Eric Vance evmartin@indiana.edu wrote:
Volunteers expecting quid pro quo or expecting or taking tips (and not dropping them into the donations) makes me feel ill.
But I have had a long time volunteer who has spent time all along the income scale, including at the very bottom, say, essentially, "You have all these high-falutin values because you can afford to. When you're broke and looking at hunger or nowhere to sleep, your viewpoint changes really fast."
I still don't agree that people should take, or Goddess forbid, ask for, any money for labor at the Bike Project. I won't stand for a formal policy that allows or encourages such things. But I have to accept that I can't control exactly how everyone does things at the Bike Project.
On Apr 23, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
I like the idea of a donation jar, suggesting it is bring funneled back into the cause. A top jar would turn me off. Thanks for asking
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:23 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Yeah, I agree with everything you all are saying. I felt really put off when I saw it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reacting too strongly.
I like how you point out that it suggests that the volunteer does not understand the collective process, or what the role of volunteering is.
Thank you for your thoughts! -momoko
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, samuelchristianjensen@gmail.com wrote: Without knowing your specific situation, I think it's also problematic for two non-tax/appearances reasons:
Volunteers should be there to support the project, etc, not for personal profit. While there usually are benefits to the volunteer like learning new skills, if they're there for the money they're not really a volunteer. Setting out a tip jar sends the signal that the volunteer doesn't really understand their role there.
Policy changes at a co-op/collective should be a group decision imo. It's not much of a collective if everybody sets their own rules for the space. Maybe I misunderstood something but taking tips without clearing it with the rest of the collective kinda implies that the volunteer doesn't take the group process seriously.
Den 23/04/2015 13.39 skrev "momoko saunders" analyst@bikefarm.org:
Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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Calls into question, mixed salary and volunteer orgs. AVO would be my preference. Rotation of leadership allows and encourages cross training, less burnout, more coop than shop, etc.
Lots of tip jars at places are like forced extortion, you must, or else (like food threats), also bad mojo.
Morale always an issue, especially over the long term, being nice encourages nice, tough breeds tough... On Apr 23, 2015 6:20 PM, wormsign@gmail.com wrote:
I see the issue of tip jars from multiple angles. In any case where I see it OK it needs to be very clear what/who the money is for and it should only be there if all agree it should. At the bikerowave we have a tip jar, the money is there only to be used to get snacks or the like for those on the shift to use on that shift or just after. In most cases this is the burrito fund. Excess money is stored for the next time that weekly shift happens. Folks aren't supposed to take money from the jar to take home or spend elsewhere. This set up came about after careful and thorough discussion among the membership. Anything otherwise I would consider a violation of trust and a violation of the will of the collective. We are not a 501c3 but I figured folks that are can call it a shift meal donation or the like. As long as the purpose is explicitly expresses I think it can have a real positive impact on the volunteers. Tips could go towards snacks for the shift, or snacks at the meetings, or to fund social get togethers all of which could have a positive impact on drawing and maintaining volunteers.
Loconte
On Apr 23, 2015, at 2:26 PM, Martin, Eric Vance evmartin@indiana.edu wrote:
Volunteers expecting quid pro quo or expecting or taking tips (and not dropping them into the donations) makes me feel ill.
But I have had a long time volunteer who has spent time all along the income scale, including at the very bottom, say, essentially, "You have all these high-falutin values because you can afford to. When you're broke and looking at hunger or nowhere to sleep, your viewpoint changes really fast."
I still don't agree that people should take, or Goddess forbid, ask for, any money for labor at the Bike Project. I won't stand for a formal policy that allows or encourages such things. But I have to accept that I can't control exactly how everyone does things at the Bike Project.
On Apr 23, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
I like the idea of a donation jar, suggesting it is bring funneled back into the cause. A top jar would turn me off. Thanks for asking
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:23 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Yeah, I agree with everything you all are saying. I felt really put off when I saw it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reacting too strongly.
I like how you point out that it suggests that the volunteer does not understand the collective process, or what the role of volunteering is.
Thank you for your thoughts! -momoko
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, samuelchristianjensen@gmail.com wrote:
Without knowing your specific situation, I think it's also problematic for two non-tax/appearances reasons:
- Volunteers should be there to support the project, etc, not for
personal profit. While there usually are benefits to the volunteer like learning new skills, if they're there for the money they're not really a volunteer. Setting out a tip jar sends the signal that the volunteer doesn't really understand their role there.
- Policy changes at a co-op/collective should be a group decision imo.
It's not much of a collective if everybody sets their own rules for the space. Maybe I misunderstood something but taking tips without clearing it with the rest of the collective kinda implies that the volunteer doesn't take the group process seriously. Den 23/04/2015 13.39 skrev "momoko saunders" analyst@bikefarm.org:
Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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*But I have had a long time volunteer who has spent time all along the income scale, including at the very bottom, say, essentially, "You have all these high-falutin values because you can afford to. When you're broke and looking at hunger or nowhere to sleep, your viewpoint changes really fast."* I agree, it is at least partly about income! If I see a tip jar, I feel obliged to put money into it. A lot of the people who use bike collectives have low or no income. So they will either be putting money they maybe can't afford into a tip jar or possibly feeling guilty for not doing so. At least, that's where I would stand from a patron's perspective.
Angel York
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:32 AM, DancesWithCars danceswithcars@gmail.com wrote:
Calls into question, mixed salary and volunteer orgs. AVO would be my preference. Rotation of leadership allows and encourages cross training, less burnout, more coop than shop, etc.
Lots of tip jars at places are like forced extortion, you must, or else (like food threats), also bad mojo.
Morale always an issue, especially over the long term, being nice encourages nice, tough breeds tough... On Apr 23, 2015 6:20 PM, wormsign@gmail.com wrote:
I see the issue of tip jars from multiple angles. In any case where I see it OK it needs to be very clear what/who the money is for and it should only be there if all agree it should. At the bikerowave we have a tip jar, the money is there only to be used to get snacks or the like for those on the shift to use on that shift or just after. In most cases this is the burrito fund. Excess money is stored for the next time that weekly shift happens. Folks aren't supposed to take money from the jar to take home or spend elsewhere. This set up came about after careful and thorough discussion among the membership. Anything otherwise I would consider a violation of trust and a violation of the will of the collective. We are not a 501c3 but I figured folks that are can call it a shift meal donation or the like. As long as the purpose is explicitly expresses I think it can have a real positive impact on the volunteers. Tips could go towards snacks for the shift, or snacks at the meetings, or to fund social get togethers all of which could have a positive impact on drawing and maintaining volunteers.
Loconte
On Apr 23, 2015, at 2:26 PM, Martin, Eric Vance evmartin@indiana.edu wrote:
Volunteers expecting quid pro quo or expecting or taking tips (and not dropping them into the donations) makes me feel ill.
But I have had a long time volunteer who has spent time all along the income scale, including at the very bottom, say, essentially, "You have all these high-falutin values because you can afford to. When you're broke and looking at hunger or nowhere to sleep, your viewpoint changes really fast."
I still don't agree that people should take, or Goddess forbid, ask for, any money for labor at the Bike Project. I won't stand for a formal policy that allows or encourages such things. But I have to accept that I can't control exactly how everyone does things at the Bike Project.
On Apr 23, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
I like the idea of a donation jar, suggesting it is bring funneled back into the cause. A top jar would turn me off. Thanks for asking
On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:23 PM, momoko saunders analyst@bikefarm.org wrote:
Yeah, I agree with everything you all are saying. I felt really put off when I saw it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reacting too strongly.
I like how you point out that it suggests that the volunteer does not understand the collective process, or what the role of volunteering is.
Thank you for your thoughts! -momoko
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, samuelchristianjensen@gmail.com wrote:
Without knowing your specific situation, I think it's also problematic for two non-tax/appearances reasons:
- Volunteers should be there to support the project, etc, not for
personal profit. While there usually are benefits to the volunteer like learning new skills, if they're there for the money they're not really a volunteer. Setting out a tip jar sends the signal that the volunteer doesn't really understand their role there.
- Policy changes at a co-op/collective should be a group decision imo.
It's not much of a collective if everybody sets their own rules for the space. Maybe I misunderstood something but taking tips without clearing it with the rest of the collective kinda implies that the volunteer doesn't take the group process seriously. Den 23/04/2015 13.39 skrev "momoko saunders" analyst@bikefarm.org:
Hey all,
How do you guys feel about tip jars? A volunteer at bike farm recently put one out during a shift.
I think it's something we as a collective should vote on. Is this a common practice? Have people had conversations about this before?
please note this is different than a donation jar which goes to the collective, this is tips for the volunteers.
Thanks for your thoughts, -momoko
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participants (9)
-
Angel York -
Beth Barnes -
DancesWithCars -
Kevin Dwyer -
Martin, Eric Vance -
momoko saunders -
Sam Haraldson -
samuelchristianjensen＠gmail.com -
wormsign＠gmail.com