Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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When you say "no supporting infrastructure," do you mean the town itself or the bicycles? I would be more concerned about bikes falling into disrepair than the town being bike/ped unfriendly. IF there's the willpower to maintain those bikes, people will ride them. If people ride them, that's a first step on the road to making your town more safe for people who are riding bikes. Safety in numbers. Demand for a safer physical infrastructure can follow.
Local, struggling bike businesses benefit, because the more bikes there are on the road, the more it is perceived as a place where people can ride bicycles. The bike businesses stand to benefit from a bicycle revival. A renewed interest in riding bicycles is a win for them. On Apr 9, 2015 8:39 AM, "Beth Barnes" islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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I do agree that the free bike program will not last forever. Others have described what happens to the bikes, it's well-documented.
HOWEVER, I do think that if you plan for the bikes not to last forever (maybe even market it that way from the beginning), it can be used as a catalyst, a project that inspires action and leads to the pursuit of other possibilities in your town. I really do think it can inspire a renewed interest in riding bicycles.
An example of planning for the ultimate demise of the freebikes: Market them as free for a limited time, a season or a year depending on your climate. Cut the program off before it starts to rot. Spread the word from the beginning that on some well-publicized date, anyone can take ONE bike and it becomes theirs. The bike shops should want in on this because it will give them plenty of maintenance work and a bunch of people buying locks and lights and such. You could even get them to sponsor the whole thing! Request one signature on an online petition (that is also available in hard copy at local stores) per person who has ridden these bikes. The petition goes to city council and can be for any ONE specific achieveable bike/ped infrastructure. Follow through on that and you're off to a running start. On Apr 9, 2015 9:10 AM, "Angel York" aniola@gmail.com wrote:
When you say "no supporting infrastructure," do you mean the town itself or the bicycles? I would be more concerned about bikes falling into disrepair than the town being bike/ped unfriendly. IF there's the willpower to maintain those bikes, people will ride them. If people ride them, that's a first step on the road to making your town more safe for people who are riding bikes. Safety in numbers. Demand for a safer physical infrastructure can follow.
Local, struggling bike businesses benefit, because the more bikes there are on the road, the more it is perceived as a place where people can ride bicycles. The bike businesses stand to benefit from a bicycle revival. A renewed interest in riding bicycles is a win for them. On Apr 9, 2015 8:39 AM, "Beth Barnes" islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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This is really helpful everyone. Keep those cards and letters coming! Beth barnes
On Apr 9, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Angel York aniola@gmail.com wrote:
I do agree that the free bike program will not last forever. Others have described what happens to the bikes, it's well-documented.
HOWEVER, I do think that if you plan for the bikes not to last forever (maybe even market it that way from the beginning), it can be used as a catalyst, a project that inspires action and leads to the pursuit of other possibilities in your town. I really do think it can inspire a renewed interest in riding bicycles.
An example of planning for the ultimate demise of the freebikes: Market them as free for a limited time, a season or a year depending on your climate. Cut the program off before it starts to rot. Spread the word from the beginning that on some well-publicized date, anyone can take ONE bike and it becomes theirs. The bike shops should want in on this because it will give them plenty of maintenance work and a bunch of people buying locks and lights and such. You could even get them to sponsor the whole thing! Request one signature on an online petition (that is also available in hard copy at local stores) per person who has ridden these bikes. The petition goes to city council and can be for any ONE specific achieveable bike/ped infrastructure. Follow through on that and you're off to a running start.
On Apr 9, 2015 9:10 AM, "Angel York" aniola@gmail.com wrote: When you say "no supporting infrastructure," do you mean the town itself or the bicycles? I would be more concerned about bikes falling into disrepair than the town being bike/ped unfriendly. IF there's the willpower to maintain those bikes, people will ride them. If people ride them, that's a first step on the road to making your town more safe for people who are riding bikes. Safety in numbers. Demand for a safer physical infrastructure can follow.
Local, struggling bike businesses benefit, because the more bikes there are on the road, the more it is perceived as a place where people can ride bicycles. The bike businesses stand to benefit from a bicycle revival. A renewed interest in riding bicycles is a win for them.
On Apr 9, 2015 8:39 AM, "Beth Barnes" islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote: Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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An open "yellow bike" program may be more of a failure but a perhaps setting it up in a lending library fashion may work better. They will need repairs so local bicycle business could have an opportunity for additional business. The biggest hurdle would be managing this whole set-up.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2015, at 8:38 AM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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Hi Beth:
I think we need more information. knowledge of Location, geography, history of town, previous AT efforts, demographics and power structures will give us a better understanding of what you and the group is up against. While it may present an opportunity for bicycling, just dumping 100 or so bikes without infrastructure for maintenance, repair, storage, and access control will quickly be a nuisance to the community. I'm wondering if a larger conversation can happen with the townsfolk, before bikes are dropped in downtown. Maybe couch it as a leveraging tactic: "A benefactor/donor etc. is committing to establishing a community bike program, but they need some commitment from the community". This will take some work in researching for asks, what the community has done in the past, what recreational and economic opportunities there are, identifying allies, working with critical voices, etc.
It seems that an organizer (grassroots) or planner (an enthusiastic city or county employee) could have a decent case study to develop. This point person would ideally work with interested community members, and not just be a lone voice in a city council meeting.
Tom Martin Bike Program Coordinator Portland Community College- Cascade Room SC-03 705 N Killingsworth St Portland, OR 97217
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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Thanks Thomas, I am not getting involved in this effort as there are too many unanswered questions and I have serious misgivings, just observing wishing they would ask many of the questions you have. It is northeastern Vermont on Canadian border, still a couple feet under snow. In two years of being here from long beach ca I can count the number of folks I've seen on bikes in one hand (other than the bike club riders and some tourists) Changing the non bike culture will take more than dumping 100 second hand bikes, just my feeling. Really learning a lot from everyone's comments. Thanks.
On Apr 9, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Thomas Martin thomas.martin6@pcc.edu wrote:
Hi Beth:
I think we need more information. knowledge of Location, geography, history of town, previous AT efforts, demographics and power structures will give us a better understanding of what you and the group is up against. While it may present an opportunity for bicycling, just dumping 100 or so bikes without infrastructure for maintenance, repair, storage, and access control will quickly be a nuisance to the community. I'm wondering if a larger conversation can happen with the townsfolk, before bikes are dropped in downtown. Maybe couch it as a leveraging tactic: "A benefactor/donor etc. is committing to establishing a community bike program, but they need some commitment from the community". This will take some work in researching for asks, what the community has done in the past, what recreational and economic opportunities there are, identifying allies, working with critical voices, etc.
It seems that an organizer (grassroots) or planner (an enthusiastic city or county employee) could have a decent case study to develop. This point person would ideally work with interested community members, and not just be a lone voice in a city council meeting.
Tom Martin Bike Program Coordinator Portland Community College- Cascade Room SC-03 705 N Killingsworth St Portland, OR 97217
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote: Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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Some radical kids did this in Bloomington Indiana. Painted the bikes yellow and unleashed them downtown. It was a disaster. All the bikes were stolen and destroyed in short order.
Then they went back to the drawing board, and the Bloomington Community Bike Project was born.
On Apr 9, 2015, at 6:53 PM, Beth Barnes <islow4bikes@gmail.commailto:islow4bikes@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Thomas, I am not getting involved in this effort as there are too many unanswered questions and I have serious misgivings, just observing wishing they would ask many of the questions you have. It is northeastern Vermont on Canadian border, still a couple feet under snow. In two years of being here from long beach ca I can count the number of folks I've seen on bikes in one hand (other than the bike club riders and some tourists) Changing the non bike culture will take more than dumping 100 second hand bikes, just my feeling. Really learning a lot from everyone's comments. Thanks.
On Apr 9, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Thomas Martin <thomas.martin6@pcc.edumailto:thomas.martin6@pcc.edu> wrote:
Hi Beth:
I think we need more information. knowledge of Location, geography, history of town, previous AT efforts, demographics and power structures will give us a better understanding of what you and the group is up against. While it may present an opportunity for bicycling, just dumping 100 or so bikes without infrastructure for maintenance, repair, storage, and access control will quickly be a nuisance to the community. I'm wondering if a larger conversation can happen with the townsfolk, before bikes are dropped in downtown. Maybe couch it as a leveraging tactic: "A benefactor/donor etc. is committing to establishing a community bike program, but they need some commitment from the community". This will take some work in researching for asks, what the community has done in the past, what recreational and economic opportunities there are, identifying allies, working with critical voices, etc.
It seems that an organizer (grassroots) or planner (an enthusiastic city or county employee) could have a decent case study to develop. This point person would ideally work with interested community members, and not just be a lone voice in a city council meeting.
Tom Martin Bike Program Coordinator Portland Community College- Cascade Room SC-03 705 N Killingsworth St Portland, OR 97217
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Beth Barnes <islow4bikes@gmail.commailto:islow4bikes@gmail.com> wrote: Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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Counting that as a win for radical kids.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Martin, Eric Vance evmartin@indiana.edu wrote:
Some radical kids did this in Bloomington Indiana. Painted the bikes yellow and unleashed them downtown. It was a disaster. All the bikes were stolen and destroyed in short order.
Then they went back to the drawing board, and the Bloomington Community Bike Project was born.
On Apr 9, 2015, at 6:53 PM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Thomas, I am not getting involved in this effort as there are too many unanswered questions and I have serious misgivings, just observing wishing they would ask many of the questions you have. It is northeastern Vermont on Canadian border, still a couple feet under snow. In two years of being here from long beach ca I can count the number of folks I've seen on bikes in one hand (other than the bike club riders and some tourists) Changing the non bike culture will take more than dumping 100 second hand bikes, just my feeling. Really learning a lot from everyone's comments. Thanks.
On Apr 9, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Thomas Martin thomas.martin6@pcc.edu wrote:
Hi Beth:
I think we need more information. knowledge of Location, geography, history of town, previous AT efforts, demographics and power structures will give us a better understanding of what you and the group is up against. While it may present an opportunity for bicycling, just dumping 100 or so bikes without infrastructure for maintenance, repair, storage, and access control will quickly be a nuisance to the community. I'm wondering if a larger conversation can happen with the townsfolk, before bikes are dropped in downtown. Maybe couch it as a leveraging tactic: "A benefactor/donor etc. is committing to establishing a community bike program, but they need some commitment from the community". This will take some work in researching for asks, what the community has done in the past, what recreational and economic opportunities there are, identifying allies, working with critical voices, etc.
It seems that an organizer (grassroots) or planner (an enthusiastic city or county employee) could have a decent case study to develop. This point person would ideally work with interested community members, and not just be a lone voice in a city council meeting.
Tom Martin Bike Program Coordinator Portland Community College- Cascade Room SC-03 705 N Killingsworth St Portland, OR 97217
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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Free Cycles Missoula was simply 100 free-roaming green bicycles on the streets of Missoula from '96 to'98. Yes, some were vandalized and maintenance was challenging, but the energy and excitement that was created and lasting was invaluable to bike 'culture' here. It was not sustainable but an incredible boost, with volunteerism thru the roof and next steps for infrastructure and bike programs sprouting all over.
The bikes need to be simple, sound, distinct and beautiful. Roving ambassadors upkeep the bikes and talk with people. A hub is essential. Library method or coin release can work well... but quickly one finds that losing a few bikes beats the red tape of other systems. (losing the whole fleet is another story though)
Being an isolated small community may be a huge asset for making it work.
'Isolated' means less likely for bikes to go to other places. Small means relationships can be forged to take care of the bikes. We involved the very people that might be apt to disrespect the bikes. Having said all that, free roaming bikes go well beyond transport and speak to community development, participation, trust and interaction. These values seem a bit fragile these days but people seem hungry for new models and methods.
Other thoughts- gps and tracking options can help or maybe the the key; a $20 coaster brake makes many bikes instantly easy to ride and maintain; anti-theft nuts and bolts can be hugely beneficial; constant dialog so important; bikes must be moved by pedal power; a hub can be a shed, shipping container or tiny house; 'at-risk' youth can be the maintainers; complimentary programs essential; losses to be expected and learned from...
Attitude of the people involved too.
Rural town looking for more ecotourism? Trails? Hills? Hunting and pickup truck culture? AntiBike sentiment?
Average speeds of roads?
Coffee shop? Diner? General store? Round a lake? Road quality? Mountain bikes? Hybrids? Cruisers? Shifting knowledge? Liability if someone's get hurt/killed?
College campus(es) nearby?
Youth center? School's attitude towards biking? Plans to be shared amongst kids? Sizes of bikes? Locating where to pickup and dropoff?
I used the previous incarnation bike share in warshington dc, while in town, for sightseeing, but cost prohibitive for anything but fun look/ride arounds. Now ~$90/day iirc. But occasional use better than parking a personal bike in the city. Free for 30 minutes or so. Multiple dropoffs and pickups per day. Mostly for tourists, afaict.
Police/sheriff's thoughts on the project?
Exercise levels of the demographic?
Summer cottages better than bringing a personal bike to week/month vacays?
typing impaired by device, so phlat.
NB: BigBro monitors all, dude[tte]....
BackusNaurForm forgotten.
Lied to re: Del msgs. MailHoardersAnon*
On Apr 10, 2015 10:54, "Bob Giordano" <mist@strans.org> wrote:
> Free Cycles Missoula was simply 100 free-roaming green bicycles on the
> streets of Missoula from '96 to'98. Yes, some were vandalized and
> maintenance was challenging, but the energy and excitement that was
> created and lasting was invaluable to bike 'culture' here. It was not
> sustainable but an incredible boost, with volunteerism thru the roof and
> next steps for infrastructure and bike programs sprouting all over.
>
> The bikes need to be simple, sound, distinct and beautiful. Roving
> ambassadors upkeep the bikes and talk with people. A hub is essential.
> Library method or coin release can work well... but quickly one finds
> that losing a few bikes beats the red tape of other systems. (losing the
> whole fleet is another story though)
>
> Being an isolated small community may be a huge asset for making it work.
>
> 'Isolated' means less likely for bikes to go to other places. Small means
> relationships can be forged to take care of the bikes. We involved the
> very people that might be apt to disrespect the bikes. Having said all
> that, free roaming bikes go well beyond transport and speak to community
> development, participation, trust and interaction. These values seem a
> bit fragile these days but people seem hungry for new models and methods.
>
> Other thoughts- gps and tracking options can help or maybe the the key; a
> $20 coaster brake makes many bikes instantly easy to ride and maintain;
> anti-theft nuts and bolts can be hugely beneficial; constant dialog so
> important; bikes must be moved by pedal power; a hub can be a shed,
> shipping container or tiny house; 'at-risk' youth can be the maintainers;
> complimentary programs essential; losses to be expected and learned
> from...
>
> --
> Bob Giordano, Director
> Free Cycles Missoula
> Missoula Institute for Sustainable Transportation
> www.freecycles.org, mist@strans.org, 406-880-6834
>
>
> Beth Barnes wrote:
> > Thanks Thomas, I am not getting involved in this effort as there are too
> > many unanswered questions and I have serious misgivings, just observing
> > wishing they would ask many of the questions you have. It is northeastern
> > Vermont on Canadian border, still a couple feet under snow. In two years
> > of being here from long beach ca I can count the number of folks I've
> seen
> > on bikes in one hand (other than the bike club riders and some tourists)
> > Changing the non bike culture will take more than dumping 100 second hand
> > bikes, just my feeling. Really learning a lot from everyone's comments.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 9, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Thomas Martin <thomas.martin6@pcc.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Beth:
> >>
> >> I think we need more information. knowledge of Location, geography,
> >> history of town, previous AT efforts, demographics and power structures
> >> will give us a better understanding of what you and the group is up
> >> against.
> >> While it may present an opportunity for bicycling, just dumping 100 or
> >> so bikes without infrastructure for maintenance, repair, storage, and
> >> access control will quickly be a nuisance to the community.
> >> I'm wondering if a larger conversation can happen with the townsfolk,
> >> before bikes are dropped in downtown. Maybe couch it as a leveraging
> >> tactic: "A benefactor/donor etc. is committing to establishing a
> >> community bike program, but they need some commitment from the
> >> community". This will take some work in researching for asks, what the
> >> community has done in the past, what recreational and economic
> >> opportunities there are, identifying allies, working with critical
> >> voices, etc.
> >>
> >> It seems that an organizer (grassroots) or planner (an enthusiastic city
> >> or county employee) could have a decent case study to develop. This
> >> point person would ideally work with interested community members, and
> >> not just be a lone voice in a city council meeting.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom Martin
> >> Bike Program Coordinator
> >> Portland Community College- Cascade
> >> Room SC-03
> >> 705 N Killingsworth St
> >> Portland, OR 97217
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:38 AM, Beth Barnes <islow4bikes@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no
> >>> real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about
> >>> 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small
> >>> downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike
> >>> businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your
> >>> thoughts. Makes little sense to me.
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
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Definitely need a good amount of support for infrastructure. Otherwise, as everyone else seems to agree, it will all just fall apart. Have you thought of a library system where people can rent out bikes so as they some sort of liability for the treatment of the bicycles, as well as the bikes returning and what not? I also agree that community involvement is key, so someone/a group of people would have to be in charge of these "free" bikes and there needs to be a storage facility as well as a place where maintenance can happen. Always keep in mind of how/where things will be 10 years down the road. Sustainability is key! Good luck! I think whatever it is could be a really great project for your community. I think that right now it's just missing a couple of key steps.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Beth Barnes islow4bikes@gmail.com wrote:
Could you weigh in, please. We have a small, remote rural town with no real bike/Ped infrastructure...yet. A group wants to introduce about 100 used bikes for people to use for free in an already ailing, small downtown. Free bikes? What will that do to local, struggling bike businesses? Bikes but no supporting infrastructure? Thank you for your thoughts. Makes little sense to me. Beth
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participants (9)
-
Angel York -
Beth Barnes -
Bob Giordano -
DancesWithCars -
Kevin Dwyer -
Laura Biren -
Martin, Eric Vance -
Thomas Martin -
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