Hey! So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the support of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said that he would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well, now he is feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a direction that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we have.) Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and tires, and chains? Thanks cris
On 2/25/08, Edward France edfrance@bicicentro.org wrote:
Bike Peeps - Thought about taking a weekend out in Santa Barbara? This is the perfect time, and we'll do our best to find hosting for cooks, clerks, wrenches, and other forms of shop creatures that travel out to celebrate with us.
Save the Date- Dia de Bici Cultura- the Grand Opening of Bici Centro's new retail/educational/shop space in Santa Barbara. April 5th will mark the event with Bike Art, Bike People and Bike Fun, BBQ, evening reception with dinner, and a night ride.
After a year of once monthly repair days, months of once weekly shop, and infinite hours of shuffling around our stuff to serve in a modular manner, Bici Centro finds its own 1,200 sq ft. space. We've got our youth Earn-a-bike churning out bikes and biking kids, community support, and a solid core of 15 volunteers working to get SB cycling in style.
A more detailed invite to be sent out this week.
<a href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrudolfx/2285845544/' title='Bicicentroopening by xRUDOLFx, on Flickr'><img src='http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2285845544_744700953e_b.jpg' width='1024' height='775' alt='Bicicentroopening' /></a>
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Hey Cris,
We had a similar problem when we started selling cheap bicycles. When we told our LBS who we were and what we were doing one of their employees became pretty put-off by us and we got bad vibes whenever we went in. However, we weren't getting parts at cost at that point. To be completely honest with you our LBS (there's only one) never actually came out and told us they felt threatened so it could have all been in our minds, but for a while we definitely considered ourselves in competition with them.
But once we thought about it, they cater to a completely different audience than we do. They sell high-end, *new* bicycles to relatively high-paying recreational customers. The people who shop there will probably never step foot in our doors (at least until we get a bigger, cleaner, more organized and accommodating space). Likewise, the "customers" of our collective never even knew of the LBS, let alone possessed the kind of money to shop there. So, fundamentally, we really don't take any business away from them.
Also, once that employee left, the feelings of animosity sort of fell by the wayside. We actually became pretty close friends with the head mechanic and the owner and they've helped us out a number of times. Whenever we hold events we take a handful of their business cards and some of their stickers and hand them out to people who attend. Also, when someone comes to us looking for a new part or something we can't provide, we refer them to the LBS. I think this has helped form a good relationship between us and our LBS, and though we don't exactly get parts at cost, we do now get heavy discounts.
There are a few things that would definitely sabotage this relationship, and one would be selling the few things we do provide at a substantially lower cost than they do, like tubes, patch kits, tire levers, etc. I'm sure this can become enticing if you find a way to get them super cheap, like a supplier, but since we get the parts from our LBS (discounted, but not at cost) it hardly makes sense to charge cheaper than they. So however you do obtain these items, don't sell them cheaper than your LBS, or at least don't sell them cheaper to the general public. That's one way to directly compete with them, and a bad way at that.
Hope this helps,
Drew Gatlin Back In The Saddle Bike Collective
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Cris Shirley cgshirley@gmail.com wrote:
Hey! So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the support of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said that he would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well, now he is feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a direction that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we have.) Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and tires, and chains? Thanks cris
On 2/25/08, Edward France edfrance@bicicentro.org wrote:
Bike Peeps - Thought about taking a weekend out in Santa Barbara? This is the perfect time, and we'll do our best to find hosting for cooks, clerks, wrenches, and other forms of shop creatures that travel out to celebrate with us.
Save the Date- Dia de Bici Cultura- the Grand Opening of Bici Centro's new retail/educational/shop space in Santa Barbara. April 5th will mark the event with Bike Art, Bike People and Bike Fun, BBQ, evening reception with dinner, and a night ride.
After a year of once monthly repair days, months of once weekly shop, and infinite hours of shuffling around our stuff to serve in a modular manner, Bici Centro finds its own 1,200 sq ft. space. We've got our youth Earn-a-bike churning out bikes and biking kids, community support, and a solid core of 15 volunteers working to get SB cycling in style.
A more detailed invite to be sent out this week.
<a href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrudolfx/2285845544/' title='Bicicentroopening by xRUDOLFx, on Flickr'><img src='http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2285845544_744700953e_b.jpg' width='1024' height='775' alt='Bicicentroopening' /></a>
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Most of the problems I have seen in other cities are due to poor communication and misunderstandings. This is my pitch, it works in salt lake city -- feel free to use, modify, and/or ignore it.
Community Bike Shops don't compete with Local Bike Shops (LBS), instead they form a tight symbiotic relationship. Why?
First, we serve different demographics. We serve the people that can't afford or are scared of the LBS. Someone can buy a bike from a thrift store for $25, a bike from Walmart for $100 or a low end bike from a LBS for $350. We sell bikes anywhere from $50 to $150, so if anything we compete with Walmart, but they don't seem to care. If someone can't afford a bike at your LBS, send them to us! If someone is looking for a nicer bike and has money to spend we will send them to you!
Second, we create business for the LBS! While we have our own distributor accounts, they are reserved for our most dedicated volunteers, everyone else we redirect to the LBS. Our shop is open from 5-9pm so we tell them if they can make it make it to the LBS before it closes (7PM), they could make it back in time to install the part.
Third, we are a tax writeoff! Get rid of used, new, old stock and make room for things that can sell! Give it to us, and not only can you go to sleep knowing it went into good hands -- you can get a much needed tax writeoff. We will also publicize the fact you help your community by doing so.
Fourth, we are your source for future mechanics. Not sure who to hire? While our volunteers don't always deal with the high-end bikes, we can recommend potential employees based on the more important things like their ability to learn, reliability, ability to take direction, and their level of customer service and passion for cycling. We train them to the point where they could be molded into the perfect employee.
I'm familiar with Devil Gear, and they have some unique features that make this difficult. Unlike most the LBS's we have in Pittsburgh, Devils Gear sells repaired used bikes in the 100-150 dollar range. That puts them in competition for both resources and market segments with a volunteer based community shop that's fixing up bikes for sale. Last time I was in New Haven they were charging about double what we would have priced bikes for at Free Ride, but had a somewhat higher median quality of bike. They also stock a fair selection of new bikes.
I'd suggest that the New Haven collective try to avoid competition for now by focusing on educational program rather than bike sales. I.E. offering a 3 week, 6 session class in bike mechanics for adults or offering a build-a-bike program to local youth organizations, or having a sponsored tune-up-day event at one of the local universities. These sorts of programs take a little more effort to set up, but could be quite profitable.
We get our parts through QBP (Quality Bike Parts) - you'll need to have liability insurance to get an account with them.
Stuart
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan@slcbikecollective.org wrote:
Most of the problems I have seen in other cities are due to poor communication and misunderstandings. This is my pitch, it works in salt lake city -- feel free to use, modify, and/or ignore it.
Community Bike Shops don't compete with Local Bike Shops (LBS), instead they form a tight symbiotic relationship. Why?
First, we serve different demographics. We serve the people that can't afford or are scared of the LBS. Someone can buy a bike from a thrift store for $25, a bike from Walmart for $100 or a low end bike from a LBS for $350. We sell bikes anywhere from $50 to $150, so if anything we compete with Walmart, but they don't seem to care. If someone can't afford a bike at your LBS, send them to us! If someone is looking for a nicer bike and has money to spend we will send them to you!
Second, we create business for the LBS! While we have our own distributor accounts, they are reserved for our most dedicated volunteers, everyone else we redirect to the LBS. Our shop is open from 5-9pm so we tell them if they can make it make it to the LBS before it closes (7PM), they could make it back in time to install the part.
Third, we are a tax writeoff! Get rid of used, new, old stock and make room for things that can sell! Give it to us, and not only can you go to sleep knowing it went into good hands -- you can get a much needed tax writeoff. We will also publicize the fact you help your community by doing so.
Fourth, we are your source for future mechanics. Not sure who to hire? While our volunteers don't always deal with the high-end bikes, we can recommend potential employees based on the more important things like their ability to learn, reliability, ability to take direction, and their level of customer service and passion for cycling. We train them to the point where they could be molded into the perfect employee.
-- Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org
Get Addicted to Crank! http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Cris Shirley cgshirley@gmail.com wrote:
Hey! So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the support of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said that he would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well, now he is feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a direction that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we have.) Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and tires, and
chains?
Thanks cris
On 2/25/08, Edward France edfrance@bicicentro.org wrote:
Bike Peeps - Thought about taking a weekend out in Santa Barbara? This is the perfect time, and we'll do our best to find hosting for cooks, clerks, wrenches, and other forms of shop creatures that travel out to celebrate with us.
Save the Date- Dia de Bici Cultura- the Grand Opening of Bici Centro's new retail/educational/shop space in Santa Barbara. April 5th will mark the event with Bike Art, Bike People and Bike Fun, BBQ, evening reception with dinner, and a night ride.
After a year of once monthly repair days, months of once weekly shop, and infinite hours of shuffling around our stuff to serve in a modular manner, Bici Centro finds its own 1,200 sq ft. space. We've got our youth Earn-a-bike churning out bikes and biking kids, community support, and a solid core of 15 volunteers working to get SB cycling in style.
A more detailed invite to be sent out this week.
<a href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrudolfx/2285845544/' title='Bicicentroopening by xRUDOLFx, on Flickr'><img src='http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2285845544_744700953e_b.jpg' width='1024' height='775' alt='Bicicentroopening' /></a>
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
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Hey, I'm Sean with the not yet operational 816 Bicycle Collective in Kansas City, MO. We've raised money already by holding a benefit event. We had bands, food, and fun, and we charged a five dollar suggested donation. In order to help us, we had some really kick ass bands. As far as spare parts go, we've been posting all over the board asking for old parts for the last 10 months. This actually created an excess of parts. In order to try to avoid competition with the LBSs, we presented them (at their request) with information about who we are and what we're doing.
There is one LBS in our area that has helped us getting tools at cost, but they're an owner operated company that has long wondered where the collective was in KC. We're lucky. Basically, money and parts are free, they just take a lot of organized effort. We have a cap of something like $80 for all bike sales. We only sell bikes to raise funds, so basically we don't sell bikes out of the shop. If there's a nice bike we come into and we need money, we'll try to get it to someone via craigslist or word of mouth.
One more thing, I personally work as a mechanic at an LBS (not the owner operated one) and rather than an interview from my current employer, I was basically interrogated as to how my being employed by him and being a volunteer at the collective was not a conflict of interest.
Again, we're not yet operational, so take this advice as you will. Also feel free to check out our myspace page, http://www.myspace.com/the816bicyclecollective. Look at our blog and you'll find some specifics about our soon to be operation. Best of luck!!!
-Sean in the 816
On 2/27/08, Stuart O Anderson soa@ri.cmu.edu wrote:
I'm familiar with Devil Gear, and they have some unique features that make this difficult. Unlike most the LBS's we have in Pittsburgh, Devils Gear sells repaired used bikes in the 100-150 dollar range. That puts them in competition for both resources and market segments with a volunteer based community shop that's fixing up bikes for sale. Last time I was in New Haven they were charging about double what we would have priced bikes for at Free Ride, but had a somewhat higher median quality of bike. They also stock a fair selection of new bikes.
I'd suggest that the New Haven collective try to avoid competition for now by focusing on educational program rather than bike sales. I.E. offering a 3 week, 6 session class in bike mechanics for adults or offering a build-a-bike program to local youth organizations, or having a sponsored tune-up-day event at one of the local universities. These sorts of programs take a little more effort to set up, but could be quite profitable.
We get our parts through QBP (Quality Bike Parts) - you'll need to have liability insurance to get an account with them.
Stuart
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan@slcbikecollective.org wrote:
Most of the problems I have seen in other cities are due to poor communication and misunderstandings. This is my pitch, it works in salt lake city -- feel free to use, modify, and/or ignore it.
Community Bike Shops don't compete with Local Bike Shops (LBS), instead
they
form a tight symbiotic relationship. Why?
First, we serve different demographics. We serve the people that can't afford or are scared of the LBS. Someone can buy a bike from a thrift
store
for $25, a bike from Walmart for $100 or a low end bike from a LBS for
$350.
We sell bikes anywhere from $50 to $150, so if anything we compete with Walmart, but they don't seem to care. If someone can't afford a bike at your LBS, send them to us! If someone is looking for a nicer bike and
has
money to spend we will send them to you!
Second, we create business for the LBS! While we have our own
distributor
accounts, they are reserved for our most dedicated volunteers, everyone
else
we redirect to the LBS. Our shop is open from 5-9pm so we tell them if
they
can make it make it to the LBS before it closes (7PM), they could make
it
back in time to install the part.
Third, we are a tax writeoff! Get rid of used, new, old stock and make
room
for things that can sell! Give it to us, and not only can you go to
sleep
knowing it went into good hands -- you can get a much needed tax
writeoff.
We will also publicize the fact you help your community by doing so.
Fourth, we are your source for future mechanics. Not sure who to hire? While our volunteers don't always deal with the high-end bikes, we can recommend potential employees based on the more important things like
their
ability to learn, reliability, ability to take direction, and their
level of
customer service and passion for cycling. We train them to the point
where
they could be molded into the perfect employee.
-- Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org
Get Addicted to Crank! http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Cris Shirley cgshirley@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey! So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the support of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said that he would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well, now he is feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a direction that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we have.) Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and tires, and
chains?
Thanks cris
On 2/25/08, Edward France edfrance@bicicentro.org wrote:
Bike Peeps - Thought about taking a weekend out in Santa Barbara? This is the perfect time, and we'll do our best to find hosting for cooks, clerks, wrenches, and other forms of shop creatures that
travel
out to celebrate with us.
Save the Date- Dia de Bici Cultura- the Grand Opening of Bici Centro's new retail/educational/shop space in Santa Barbara. April
5th
will mark the event with Bike Art, Bike People and Bike Fun, BBQ, evening reception with dinner, and a night ride.
After a year of once monthly repair days, months of once weekly
shop,
and infinite hours of shuffling around our stuff to serve in a
modular
manner, Bici Centro finds its own 1,200 sq ft. space. We've got our youth Earn-a-bike churning out bikes and biking kids, community support, and a solid core of 15 volunteers working to get SB cycling in style.
A more detailed invite to be sent out this week.
<a href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrudolfx/2285845544/' title='Bicicentroopening by xRUDOLFx, on Flickr'><img src='
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2285845544_744700953e_b.jpg'
width='1024' height='775' alt='Bicicentroopening' /></a>
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
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I know a couple of times working at the collective in SLC a few people came in and mentioned that they had been directed there by one of the local bike shops (2 different bike shops off the top of my head), and a couple of our volunteers as well as friends work at local bike shops.
I agree that it is a matter of serving different demographics, so we are never seen as being in competition.
On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Jonathan Morrison jonathan@slcbikecollective.org wrote:
Most of the problems I have seen in other cities are due to poor communication and misunderstandings. This is my pitch, it works in salt lake city -- feel free to use, modify, and/or ignore it.
Community Bike Shops don't compete with Local Bike Shops (LBS), instead they form a tight symbiotic relationship. Why?
First, we serve different demographics. We serve the people that can't afford or are scared of the LBS. Someone can buy a bike from a thrift store for $25, a bike from Walmart for $100 or a low end bike from a LBS for $350. We sell bikes anywhere from $50 to $150, so if anything we compete with Walmart, but they don't seem to care. If someone can't afford a bike at your LBS, send them to us! If someone is looking for a nicer bike and has money to spend we will send them to you!
Second, we create business for the LBS! While we have our own distributor accounts, they are reserved for our most dedicated volunteers, everyone else we redirect to the LBS. Our shop is open from 5-9pm so we tell them if they can make it make it to the LBS before it closes (7PM), they could make it back in time to install the part.
Third, we are a tax writeoff! Get rid of used, new, old stock and make room for things that can sell! Give it to us, and not only can you go to sleep knowing it went into good hands -- you can get a much needed tax writeoff. We will also publicize the fact you help your community by doing so.
Fourth, we are your source for future mechanics. Not sure who to hire? While our volunteers don't always deal with the high-end bikes, we can recommend potential employees based on the more important things like their ability to learn, reliability, ability to take direction, and their level of customer service and passion for cycling. We train them to the point where they could be molded into the perfect employee.
-- Sincerely,
Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org
Get Addicted to Crank! http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Cris Shirley cgshirley@gmail.com wrote:
Hey! So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the support of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said that he would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well, now he is feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a direction that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we have.) Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and tires, and
chains?
Thanks cris
On 2/25/08, Edward France edfrance@bicicentro.org wrote:
Bike Peeps - Thought about taking a weekend out in Santa Barbara? This is the perfect time, and we'll do our best to find hosting for cooks, clerks, wrenches, and other forms of shop creatures that travel out to celebrate with us.
Save the Date- Dia de Bici Cultura- the Grand Opening of Bici Centro's new retail/educational/shop space in Santa Barbara. April 5th will mark the event with Bike Art, Bike People and Bike Fun, BBQ, evening reception with dinner, and a night ride.
After a year of once monthly repair days, months of once weekly shop, and infinite hours of shuffling around our stuff to serve in a modular manner, Bici Centro finds its own 1,200 sq ft. space. We've got our youth Earn-a-bike churning out bikes and biking kids, community support, and a solid core of 15 volunteers working to get SB cycling in style.
A more detailed invite to be sent out this week.
<a href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrudolfx/2285845544/' title='Bicicentroopening by xRUDOLFx, on Flickr'><img src='http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2285845544_744700953e_b.jpg' width='1024' height='775' alt='Bicicentroopening' /></a>
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Cris Shirley -
John Gatlin -
Jonathan Morrison -
ronald ferrucci -
Stuart O Anderson -
the816bikecollective Kansascity