Would be interested to know what those studies have to say - perhaps that's a source of more ideas.

• Could try structured classes, possibly in conjunction with rides, covering

basic maintenance and ride safety.

• Depending on funding, youth employment in the shop

Stuart

Yes. I should have mentioned that. ( the studies)

The official Dutch studies are written by an organization called the
FietsBeraad. ( literally, the 'Bicycle Advisory')

Anyone interested can check out their website and studies at their
KennisBank: http://www.fietsberaad.nl/index.cfm?section=Kennisbank

If you load the pages into Google Translate, you can read their Dutch- language publications.

I hope y'all find these interesting...

One caveat for interested ThinkTankers... the Dutch do speak English,
but they insist that you learn to speak their language if you want to
be taken seriously here.

I was told by an English-speaking head of the local Bike Lessons
department of Amsterdam Noord, that next year when my Dutch is good
enough, I might be allowed to attend the National Bike Lesson Professor's School.

(Yes, it exists here.)

This is the paradox, of finding a way to teach immigrants to ride
bicycles....TOO efficiently:

If all the immigrant Moroccans get on Gyrobikes and learn to ride in
half an hour, what will the Bike Professors do with themselves?

Op Mar 5, 2009, om 7:41 AM heeft Stuart O Anderson het volgende
geschreven:

Would be interested to know what those studies have to say - perhaps
that's a source of more ideas.

• Could try structured classes, possibly in conjunction with rides,

covering basic maintenance and ride safety.

• Depending on funding, youth employment in the shop

Stuart _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...

HI Bill, I read the book about the Arcata Library Bike program... bought it
electronically off LuLu in January. Found it inspiring, actually.

In our case, we would be lending out three wheeled cargo trikes ...a
day at a time, I am thinking, rather than for weeks or months. I'm a
little worried about them being stolen or driven into a canal.

I'm thinking that, since the potential borrowers would not have credit
cards ( they are almost unknown in Holland, except for fairly rich
folks) The only way to ensure the return of the bikes without asking for a hefty cash deposit, would be to hang on to
borrowers' passports or national ID cards. Not very friendly... but
I'm not sure what else to do...

Lending Trailers... that is also a good idea! Occasionally you see
people pulling them with their bikes.

One thing that you NEVER see in Amsterdam.... is an XtraCycle. It
appears to be a cultural imperative here for people to always carry
loads in front of them. Maybe to prevent theft? I would like to have a bike with a Free Radical on it to lend, so
locals can try actually riding one... they certainly are a much less
expensive ( and lighter!) cargo-carrying solution than a Bakfiets.

Road bikes... Around here, those appear to be primarily carbon-fiber
midlife crisis bikes for older men in Spandex. Steel racing bikes are
'for English-speaking people,' I have been told at various bike
shops. (???)

And... probably most bikes one sees here are one-speed with coaster
brakes. I hope to fix up as many donated older ones as possible and
give them to people who don't have bikes yet.

Yes, I was also thinking of having tools available for a walk-in DIY
repair show ( with advice)

And.. yes,, I love the Repair Manifesto too! I want to have a copy of
posted on the wall of the Repair area. ( Platform 21 is an artists' space here in Amsterdam.)

thanks so much, everyone!

Wendy

Op Mar 6, 2009, om 2:20 AM heeft Bill Wright het volgende geschreven:

A bike library - one that loans out bikes for everyone - serves the
whole stratus off the population. Cargo bikes and commute bikes and
other bikes. This works well for us a LibraryBikes.org in Arcata,
California.

A bike library also provides the current bikers a chance to try
other types of equipment without need to purchase. Cargo bikes for
one, trailers are good to, and road bike and fixed gear equipment
are in high demand too.

Your bike library can have tools workstands available too. Reuse
and recycling of donated bikes are the best and highest use of old
equipment also, and skills of everyone involved improve. Check out
our how to book at www.LibraryBikes.org

i hope you get your wishes, Good luck. Bill

From: wendy.monroe@usermail.com To: jamesbleds0e@yahoo.com; thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 07:27:47 +0100 Subject: [TheThinkTank] Am I missing any great programs from my
proposal?

Op Mar 5, 2009, om 2:22 AM heeft jamesbleds0e@yahoo.com het volgende
geschreven:

beer and pizza...get some tools..find a corner...and invite folks
into...eat the pizza you make ...they bring the beer and their
bikes..to work on..do it once a week...and before you know it

Thanks James, Totally, That's how I would do it if I were still
living in Berkeley... the situation in Holland is like a bizarro
parallel universe, however... they have Money here! HOwever, the people I hope to attract to the program are likely to
be Muslim, and could be offended if I offer them beer.

Here is the situation: The City of Amsterdam wants me to write a wish list for the
community bike center, and is apparently willing to fund it with
thousands of euros. They are a little annoyed that I haven't
presented them with a budget yet.. but I am taking the time to
craft a program that will likely be a winner, so other similar
programs will be requested by other cities across Holland....

If this happens, I hope you Think Tankers will consider coming to
Holland to check out the situation... some of you will be needed
here. (Jason? Hello?)

The Neighborhood Think Tank is asking me.. 'What activities do you
want to do?' and 'What groups in the community do you propose to
serve?'

I want to make good use of any resources I get,... American-style
Community bike programs in Holland are completely unknown, and
successful programs to get immigrants on bikes here are very likely
to be funded, as there is a lot of money riding on this issue in
Holland.

The Dutch government spends €60 million a year STUDYING THE PROBLEM
as to why the Moroccan immigrants here prefer to ride public
transportation over riding bikes.

Please Help me out, guys.. these are the programs I have proposed
so far:

Earn-a-bike Bike Library ( free short-term loan of cargo trikes ) Recreational bike rides arranged for immigrant mothers and kids, in
which everyone gets to keep their bikes afterwards.

Does anyone have a suggestion for additional programs? ( am I
missing any obvious ones, in other words?)

Thank you!

Wendy Monroe

Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups
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HI Christine,

Thanks for the links... they are certainly food for thought. Would it
show cultural insensitivity on my part to try to win the immigrant
population of Amsterdam Noord over to the cycling lifestyle?

One thing I have personally observed... the women who show up at the
bicycle lessons are not really enthused about the cycling itself. It
is more that they get a chance to hang out and mingle together outside
their homes.

This research result ( In the German study) does not surprise me: 'Even after comprehensive training and instruction, cycling is for
many of them an “uncanny,” “dangerous,” and also “weird” activity
predominantly reserved for the ethnic Dutch'

Yup, that would explain a few things...

I used to think that, given the vast sums of money spent by the Dutch
government .. tens of millions of euros each year!!... to encourage
immigrant women to ride bikes, a more effective campaign might be to
instead send teams of cyclists to rove around major cities in Holland,
handing out 20 euro notes, to each woman seen riding along with a head
scarf on...every single day.

I am also wondering how well an earn-a-bike program might go over in a
youth population of Moroccans,... ' where the bicycle has a bad image
and little status value..'

Would they even show up for such a program?

I'm thinking an earn-a-bike program might be a tough sell, unless it
is marketed as job-training of sorts, for a future career of repairing
scooters and cars. It is a sorry state of affairs, to those of us who
came from a California-style bike culture. But it may be the social
reality here.

Oh Noooo... I just started reading the second article...( thanks,
Google Translate!)

"The latest controversy reported by the website Elaph.com "(29/12/207)
is a sad illustration, verging on the ridiculous, as was the fatwa on"
nursing major. "Indeed, the last discovery of a fatwa that forbids
Muslim women to practice cycling, because according to the religion
that spread, "straddle the saddle of the bicycle engender women as
sexual arousal, and the bike becomes this point of view, a prohibited
object. "

My first reaction being, ' Oh damn, now Men know our
Secret!!' (Just kidding.)

I don't even know what to say, after reading THAT. I guess I will
sign off and read the rest of that article...

cheers,

Wendy

HI Fhar, What a fascinating post... I will try to respond as well as I can..
sorry if this is a bit rambling...

I would love to know more about the Egyptian bike advocacy group, and
especially to see any photos you might have of the tricked-out desert
Oasis bikes!

I too, have a bike that is unusual, by local standards, an orange and
black Tiger-striped Bernie Mikkelsen frame with a Sturmey 3-speed hub
and an old Super Record derailleur as a chain tensioner. It reminds
me of 'home,' Berkeley, California.

In contrast to the reactions of kids in Cairo, Dutch people are
horrified by this bike, and find it very ugly. They think it has too
many colors! ( ie it should be all black!)

It is true, getting a drivers' license in Holland is an expensive
proposition... €1900 euros for mandatory driving instruction, and the
traffic theory book one must study is hundreds of pages long... ( and
in Dutch) I have been pondering whether it would be worth it to try,
myself.

About the Fatwa... I am a little nervous about even discussing this
with my friend Mina.. for fear of sounding insensitive.. I grew up in
Berkeley in the 60's where ALL religions were treated as fairy
tales... except ones such as EST... I will approach this subject very
delicately... for fear of making a faux pas.

Before reading the link Christine posted, I had no idea there was
serious discussion of sexuality vis a vis bike saddles, , let alone
different factions in this debate!

Any woman knows that in fact the 'sit-bones' of the back of one's
pelvis are what contacts the saddle, but apparently, no one is asking
US.

Also, you may be well aware of the relationship in the U.S. between
Amelia Bloomers' invention of pants that women could wear based on a
Turkish Design, I might add... and women's being able to politically organize by bicycle and getting
the right to vote in 1927. It may not have been possible, if women
had not been riding bicycles...

Yes, there is a long history of women's gaining increased mobility and
freedom via bike riding...

( Google translate does get a little vague when translating from
Arabic....)

I have a question: Is there any person who claims, or will admit,
that riding on a bike saddle is personally sexually exciting for him
or her ? ie: Is this a figment of a cleric's imagination, or is this actually
true for some people??

(Or, am I missing out on something?!)

There is a Dutch-made saddle, that I now have an entirely different
understanding about... I had thought this was designed for riding
over cobblestones!

Fhar, I am going to have to sit down and thoroughly read both the
articles you sent links to, then think about what was probably meant,
ask my friend Mina about her perspective, then I will ask you about any remaining questions, if you don't mind.

Does the original version of the first article mention motorcycles at
all, or should I substitute 'bicycle' for every time I see
'motorcycle.' ?

Riding them is no doubt a very different experience, I would be
surprised to see them put in the same category as bikes...

Uh oh, my husband, who is from Washington DC, says it is a
particularly dangerous place for bike riding.

Congratulations on your plan to do bicycle advocacy work there.. but
please be careful!

High Five, Fhar!

met vriendelijke groeten,

Wendy

Op Mar 10, 2009, om 1:12 PM heeft Fhar Miess het volgende geschreven:

Wendy,

This is a very interesting problem, and I don't think it would be
culturally insensitive to "try to win the immigrant population of
Amsterdam Noord over to the cycling lifestyle". I'm currently
living in Cairo where there is a group of Egyptians who are doing
bicycle advocacy. There is nothing particularly evocative of
"western hegemony" in it (until they start talking about traffic
laws, anyway), although there might be an argument that it is
somewhat classist. Also, the truth of the matter is that it seems
to be a simple matter of mobility and freedom of movement in a place
where they find it difficult to get a drivers license and cycling is
more the norm anyway. They likely have more interest in socializing
because that's the reason for mobility in the first place: to
facilitate socializing.

I think as long as you remain aware of the particular obstacles
facing the Arabic-speaking immigrant community, there is nothing
insensitive about it. You shouldn't worry about that fatwa. It was
issued by a Saudi Wahhabi cleric who, in an internet search, has
nothing to his name except the Elaph article you mention (Elaph is
also a Saudi-funded publication, it should be noted) and another
media article about that fatwa. The guy is a one-hit-wonder in the
world of ultra-conservative Islam and his "fatwawawa" should be
treated with an appropriate level of scorn.

Nevertheless, some Muslim women in Holland will take this fatwa
seriously, and the Elaph article mentions an Iraqi woman living in
Holland for 9 years who is among these. The key would be, if the
issue comes up, to simply acknowledge the fatwa and indicate where
it comes from and point out that, as that second article mentions,
neither the Quran nor the hadiths ever forbade women from riding
mules. The membership of the Egyptian cycling club/advocacy
organization I mentioned is majority female, the majority of whom
are, in turn, wearing the hijab. From a religious perspective, it
should be even less of a problem with the Moroccan immigrants you
mention, most of whom will be adherents to the Maliki school of
Islamic law, and thus paying far more attention to fatwas from the
Mufti of Al-Azhar in Cairo (I'll do some digging to see if he has
anything to say about "the sexuality of the saddle"), or even more
likely to the advice of the incredibly popular (especially in the
"West") Muslim televangelist Amr Khaled, who I'm sure would never
suggest something so idiotic (not that he doesn't suggest plenty of
idiotic things).

In any case, the Elaph article focuses more on the practical (non- religious) difficulties facing Arab immigrant women trying to learn
to ride a bike in Holland. The Google Translate version is here:

http://tiny.cc/yerAJ

Automatic translators are pretty poor with Arabic (they confuse
"nationality" and "sexuality" for instance), so if you're
interested, I can do a proper translation (or summary anyway). The
other article about the fatwa is more intelligible through Google
Translate and can be found here:

http://tiny.cc/loibZ

As for the status value of a bike, I'm not sure about Morocco, but
here in Egypt, it depends quite a lot on age, class and
urbanization. Teens are less likely to be interested in bikes, as
are those from higher classes, as are those from the city. When I
was in Upper Egypt and the desert oases, kids up to the early teens
had some pretty tricked-out rigs that made it evident they took a
lot of pride in them. Even in the center of Cairo, youth of all
ages, everyone in fact, is as impressed with a little bit of old- school bike bling as anywhere else, perhaps even more so. I'm
constantly having to turn down offers for people to buy my steel
frame bike with fancy lugs. Show kids anything other than the
cheapo mass-produced Chinese and Indian bikes that populate the
streets here and they get excited. I'm guessing it would be the
same in Holland. It doesn't necessarily have to be "boutique", just
out of the ordinary.

Anyway, hope this all helps and sorry for being so verbose. When I
move to Washington DC in the summer, I'm hoping to get involved with
Arab immigrant solidarity work and helping to establish a bike
collective, so this issue sits at the nexus of my two biggest
passions at the moment.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

Fhar

On Mar 10, 2009, at 6:25 AM, Wendy Monroe wrote:

...

HI Christine,

Thanks for the links... they are certainly food for thought. Would
it show cultural insensitivity on my part to try to win the
immigrant population of Amsterdam Noord over to the cycling
lifestyle?

One thing I have personally observed... the women who show up at
the bicycle lessons are not really enthused about the cycling
itself. It is more that they get a chance to hang out and mingle
together outside their homes.

This research result ( In the German study) does not surprise me: 'Even after comprehensive training and instruction, cycling is for
many of them an “uncanny,” “dangerous,” and also “weird” activity
predominantly reserved for the ethnic Dutch'

Yup, that would explain a few things...

I used to think that, given the vast sums of money spent by the
Dutch government .. tens of millions of euros each year!!... to
encourage immigrant women to ride bikes, a more effective campaign
might be to instead send teams of cyclists to rove around major
cities in Holland, handing out 20 euro notes, to each woman seen
riding along with a head scarf on...every single day.

I am also wondering how well an earn-a-bike program might go over
in a youth population of Moroccans,... ' where the bicycle has a
bad image and little status value..'

Would they even show up for such a program?

I'm thinking an earn-a-bike program might be a tough sell, unless
it is marketed as job-training of sorts, for a future career of
repairing scooters and cars. It is a sorry state of affairs, to
those of us who came from a California-style bike culture. But it
may be the social reality here.

Oh Noooo... I just started reading the second article...( thanks,
Google Translate!)

"The latest controversy reported by the website Elaph.com
"(29/12/207) is a sad illustration, verging on the ridiculous, as
was the fatwa on" nursing major. "Indeed, the last discovery of a
fatwa that forbids Muslim women to practice cycling, because
according to the religion that spread, "straddle the saddle of the
bicycle engender women as sexual arousal, and the bike becomes this
point of view, a prohibited object. "

My first reaction being, ' Oh damn, now Men know our
Secret!!' (Just kidding.)

I don't even know what to say, after reading THAT. I guess I will
sign off and read the rest of that article...

cheers,

Wendy _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...

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"I have a question: Is there any person who claims, or will admit, that riding on a bike saddle is personally sexually exciting for him or her ? ie: Is this a figment of a cleric's imagination, or is this actually true for some people??"

Okay, I fess up: I find it rather exciting--although I don't know if that is because of the saddle or just because I find bikes in general pretty exciting! :)

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Wendy Monroe wendy.monroe@usermail.comwrote:

HI Fhar, What a fascinating post... I will try to respond as well as I can.. sorry if this is a bit rambling...

I would *love* to know more about the Egyptian bike advocacy group, and especially to see any photos you might have of the tricked-out desert Oasis bikes!

I too, have a bike that is unusual, by local standards, an orange and black Tiger-striped Bernie Mikkelsen frame with a Sturmey 3-speed hub and an old Super Record derailleur as a chain tensioner. It reminds me of 'home,' Berkeley, California.

In contrast to the reactions of kids in Cairo, Dutch people are horrified by this bike, and find it very ugly. They think it has too many colors! ( ie it should be all black!)

It is true, getting a drivers' license in Holland is an expensive proposition... €1900 euros for mandatory driving instruction, and the traffic theory book one must study is hundreds of pages long... ( and in Dutch) I have been pondering whether it would be worth it to try, myself.

About the Fatwa... I am a little nervous about even discussing this with my friend Mina.. for fear of sounding insensitive.. I grew up in Berkeley in the 60's where ALL religions were treated as fairy tales... except ones such as EST... I will approach this subject very delicately... for fear of making a faux pas.

Before reading the link Christine posted, I had no idea there was serious *discussion* of sexuality vis a vis bike saddles, , let alone *different factions* in this debate!

Any woman knows that in fact the 'sit-bones' of the back of one's pelvis are what contacts the saddle, but apparently, no one is asking US.

Also, you may be well aware of the relationship in the U.S. between Amelia Bloomers' invention of pants that women could wear *based on a Turkish Design, *I might add... and women's being able to politically organize by bicycle and getting the right to vote in 1927. It may not have been possible, if women had not been riding bicycles...

Yes, there is a long history of women's gaining increased mobility and freedom via bike riding...

( Google translate *does* get a little vague when translating from Arabic....)

I have a question: Is there *any person* who claims, or will admit, that riding on a bike saddle is personally sexually exciting for him or her ?

ie: Is this a figment of a cleric's imagination, or is this actually *true

• for some people??

(Or, am I missing out on something?!)

There is a Dutch-made saddle, that I now have an *entirely different understanding about.*.. I had thought this was designed for riding over cobblestones!

Fhar, I am going to have to sit down and thoroughly read both the articles you sent links to, then think about what was probably meant, ask my friend Mina about her perspective, then I will ask you about any remaining questions, if you don't mind.

Does the original version of the first article mention motorcycles at all, or should I substitute 'bicycle' for every time I see 'motorcycle.' ?

Riding *them* is no doubt a very different experience, I would be surprised to see them put in the same category as bikes...

Uh oh, my husband, who is from Washington DC, says it is a particularly dangerous place for bike riding.

Congratulations on your plan to do bicycle advocacy work there.. but please be careful!

High Five, Fhar!

met vriendelijke groeten,

Wendy

Op Mar 10, 2009, om 1:12 PM heeft Fhar Miess het volgende geschreven:

Wendy,

This is a very interesting problem, and I don't think it would be culturally insensitive to "try to win the immigrant population of Amsterdam Noord over to the cycling lifestyle". I'm currently living in Cairo where there is a group of Egyptians who are doing bicycle advocacy. There is nothing particularly evocative of "western hegemony" in it (until they start talking about traffic laws, anyway), although there might be an argument that it is somewhat classist. Also, the truth of the matter is that it seems to be a simple matter of mobility and freedom of movement in a place where they find it difficult to get a drivers license and cycling is more the norm anyway. They likely have more interest in socializing because that's the reason for mobility in the first place: to facilitate socializing.

I think as long as you remain aware of the particular obstacles facing the Arabic-speaking immigrant community, there is nothing insensitive about it. You shouldn't worry about that fatwa. It was issued by a Saudi Wahhabi cleric who, in an internet search, has nothing to his name except the Elaph article you mention (Elaph is also a Saudi-funded publication, it should be noted) and another media article about that fatwa. The guy is a one-hit-wonder in the world of ultra-conservative Islam and his "fatwawawa" should be treated with an appropriate level of scorn.

Nevertheless, some Muslim women in Holland will take this fatwa seriously, and the Elaph article mentions an Iraqi woman living in Holland for 9 years who is among these. The key would be, if the issue comes up, to simply acknowledge the fatwa and indicate where it comes from and point out that, as that second article mentions, neither the Quran nor the hadiths ever forbade women from riding mules. The membership of the Egyptian cycling club/advocacy organization I mentioned is majority female, the majority of whom are, in turn, wearing the hijab. From a religious perspective, it should be even less of a problem with the Moroccan immigrants you mention, most of whom will be adherents to the Maliki school of Islamic law, and thus paying far more attention to fatwas from the Mufti of Al-Azhar in Cairo (I'll do some digging to see if he has anything to say about "the sexuality of the saddle"), or even more likely to the advice of the incredibly popular (especially in the "West") Muslim televangelist Amr Khaled, who I'm sure would never suggest something so idiotic (not that he doesn't suggest plenty of idiotic things).

In any case, the Elaph article focuses more on the practical (non-religious) difficulties facing Arab immigrant women trying to learn to ride a bike in Holland. The Google Translate version is here:

http://tiny.cc/yerAJ

Automatic translators are pretty poor with Arabic (they confuse "nationality" and "sexuality" for instance), so if you're interested, I can do a proper translation (or summary anyway). The other article about the fatwa is more intelligible through Google Translate and can be found here:

http://tiny.cc/loibZ

As for the status value of a bike, I'm not sure about Morocco, but here in Egypt, it depends quite a lot on age, class and urbanization. Teens are less likely to be interested in bikes, as are those from higher classes, as are those from the city. When I was in Upper Egypt and the desert oases, kids up to the early teens had some pretty tricked-out rigs that made it evident they took a lot of pride in them. Even in the center of Cairo, youth of all ages, everyone in fact, is as impressed with a little bit of old-school bike bling as anywhere else, perhaps even more so. I'm constantly having to turn down offers for people to buy my steel frame bike with fancy lugs. Show kids anything other than the cheapo mass-produced Chinese and Indian bikes that populate the streets here and they get excited. I'm guessing it would be the same in Holland. It doesn't necessarily have to be "boutique", just out of the ordinary.

Anyway, hope this all helps and sorry for being so verbose. When I move to Washington DC in the summer, I'm hoping to get involved with Arab immigrant solidarity work and helping to establish a bike collective, so this issue sits at the nexus of my two biggest passions at the moment.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

Fhar

On Mar 10, 2009, at 6:25 AM, Wendy Monroe wrote:

HI Christine, Thanks for the links... they are certainly food for thought. Would it show cultural insensitivity on my part to try to win the immigrant population of Amsterdam Noord over to the cycling lifestyle?

One thing I have personally observed... the women who show up at the bicycle lessons are not really enthused about the cycling *itself*. It is more that they get a chance to hang out and mingle together outside their homes.

*This* research result ( In the German study) does not surprise me: '*Even after comprehensive training and instruction, cycling is for many of them an “uncanny,” “dangerous,” and also “weird” activity predominantly reserved for the ethnic Dutch'*

Yup, that would explain a few things...

I used to think that, given the vast sums of money spent by the Dutch government .. *tens* of millions of euros each year!!... to encourage immigrant women to ride bikes, a more effective campaign might be to instead send teams of cyclists to rove around major cities in Holland, handing out 20 euro notes, to each woman seen riding along with a head scarf on...every single day.

I am also wondering how well an earn-a-bike program might go over in a youth population of Moroccans,... *' where the bicycle has a bad image and little status value..'*

Would they even *show up* for such a program?

I'm thinking an earn-a-bike program might be a tough sell, unless it is marketed as job-training of sorts, for a future career of repairing scooters and cars. It is a sorry state of affairs, to those of us who came from a California-style bike culture. But it may be the social reality here.

Oh Noooo... I just started reading the second article...( thanks, Google Translate!)

"The latest controversy reported by the website Elaph.com "(29/12/207) is a sad illustration, verging on the ridiculous, as was the fatwa on" nursing major.http://74.125.79.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.mediarabe.info/spip.php%3Farticle741&prev=_t&usg=ALkJrhjQ2pdqUXyT_9KPE9CJ64ZAAgH-uw "Indeed, the last discovery of a fatwa that forbids Muslim women to practice cycling, because according to the religion that spread, "*straddle the saddle of the bicycle engender women as sexual arousal, and the bike becomes this point of view, a prohibited object. "*

My first reaction being, ' Oh *damn*, now Men know our Secret!!' (Just kidding.)

I don't even know what to say, after reading THAT. I guess I will sign off and read the rest of that article...

cheers,

Wendy _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:

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