Hello, I operate a small bike Co-op in a small, run down town called Beaver Falls, PA. We're looking into purchasing a location and think we've found the perfect spot. It's a former business / house with a three car garage and a large glass storefront area. The only problem is that it's zoned residential even though it used to be a business many years ago. The street is pretty run down, with three of the four 'neighbors' being vacant housing, so I'm not too worried about neighbors complaining about it. I'd like to paint our logo on the garage but I'm afraid that it my draw too much attention from the zoning people. Do any of your co-ops operate in non-commercialy zoned space? Have you had any problems arise because of it? Thanks, Jake
For starters, good work! I think there was a group that ran into a zoning problem, so I'm sure you will hear from them. Zoning is a pretty local thing, but as I understand it generally, this a a pretty gray area because you aren't really commercial (I assume). If you don't already have a relationship with your city council rep, I would suggest you make one. S/he could provide you cover and advice.
Have you looked to see if there are any sign ordinances for residential areas?
I think you're right that you will be able to fly under the radar for a while. Unless your town is really strict, I doubt anything will happen until the city gets a handful of complaints. Again, that's why it's good to have your rep on your side.
On Nov 14, 2007 1:20 AM, Jake Liefer jakeliefer@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, I operate a small bike Co-op in a small, run down town called Beaver Falls, PA. We're looking into purchasing a location and think we've found the perfect spot. It's a former business / house with a three car garage and a large glass storefront area. The only problem is that it's zoned residential even though it used to be a business many years ago. The street is pretty run down, with three of the four 'neighbors' being vacant housing, so I'm not too worried about neighbors complaining about it. I'd like to paint our logo on the garage but I'm afraid that it my draw too much attention from the zoning people. Do any of your co-ops operate in non-commercialy zoned space? Have you had any problems arise because of it? Thanks, Jake _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
hey jake. the derailer bicycle collective in denver had zoning problems they weren't able to resolve, and had to move. their website is at http://www.derailerbicyclecollective.org/ if you want to get in touch with them. i think they have an archive of news pieces and correspondence between them and the city when they were going through it you could probably look at (not on the website).
then again, i think the only reason it became a problem is because one of the neighbours complained, so that may not be an issue for you.
in canada, where our shop is, i know all you have to do is pay a small fee and apply to the city for a "zoning variance" on the house, where they basically put up posters to see if anyone in the neighbourhood has a problem with it. if no one does, that particular building can is exempt from certain zoning regulations. i'm not sure if it works the same way south of the border.
good luck, macho
Jake Liefer wrote:
Hello, I operate a small bike Co-op in a small, run down town called Beaver Falls, PA. We're looking into purchasing a location and think we've found the perfect spot. It's a former business / house with a three car garage and a large glass storefront area. The only problem is that it's zoned residential even though it used to be a business many years ago. The street is pretty run down, with three of the four 'neighbors' being vacant housing, so I'm not too worried about neighbors complaining about it. I'd like to paint our logo on the garage but I'm afraid that it my draw too much attention from the zoning people. Do any of your co-ops operate in non-commercialy zoned space? Have you had any problems arise because of it? Thanks, Jake _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Jake,
I'll try to shed a somewhat professional light on this. I'm a planner here in Sacramento. Most cities have provisions for commercial uses in residentially zoned area, especially if the site was used for commercial in the past. If you have your 501c3 this may work to your advantage. Staff may understand the constraints of small non-profit support service and turn a blind eye. I would call the local planning office to see what provisions if any exist. Another thing to look at is this. When was the site last operating as commercial? We have a provision for non-conforming uses that if the use was abandoned for 1 year it will loose the legal non-conforming status. If this site was recently a commercial use then you may be able to just set up shop.
Hope this helps
Chris Dougherty Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen www.sacbikekitchen.org
On 11/14/07, Macho Philipovich macho@resist.ca wrote:
hey jake. the derailer bicycle collective in denver had zoning problems they weren't able to resolve, and had to move. their website is at http://www.derailerbicyclecollective.org/ if you want to get in touch with them. i think they have an archive of news pieces and correspondence between them and the city when they were going through it you could probably look at (not on the website).
then again, i think the only reason it became a problem is because one of the neighbours complained, so that may not be an issue for you.
in canada, where our shop is, i know all you have to do is pay a small fee and apply to the city for a "zoning variance" on the house, where they basically put up posters to see if anyone in the neighbourhood has a problem with it. if no one does, that particular building can is exempt from certain zoning regulations. i'm not sure if it works the same way south of the border.
good luck, macho
Jake Liefer wrote:
Hello, I operate a small bike Co-op in a small, run down town called Beaver Falls, PA. We're looking into purchasing a location and think we've found the perfect spot. It's a former business / house with a three car garage and a large glass storefront area. The only problem is that it's zoned residential even though it used to be a business many years ago. The street is pretty run down, with three of the four 'neighbors' being vacant housing, so I'm not too worried about neighbors complaining about it. I'd like to paint our logo on the garage but I'm afraid that it my draw too much attention from the zoning people. Do any of your co-ops operate in non-commercialy zoned space? Have you had any problems arise because of it? Thanks, Jake _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Hi Jake,
This is PJ with the Mt Rainier Bike Co-op. We operate out of a city-owned garage that is zoned municipal (or something, but) not commercial. The city supports our program, though anything that seems like "sales" we sort of downplay to stay under the radar or we just call the money we receive "donation". The city treasurer said that for auditing purposes, the city or any of its programs cannot make a profit or do any fundraising. Things bought (like locks or inner tubes) must be sold at cost, and other income must be on donation basis. Our image in the city is very positive, and the city loves us because we work with kids, because we barely cost the city any money for an excellent program--we won the city an "Award of Excellence for program in a Medium-sized City" at the Maryland Municipal League.
So image and relations make a big difference, and labeling to an extent. As such a small operation, I think staying under the radar will not be a big problem, especially if you follow the advise of all the other folks who replied to you with great advise.
PJ
On Nov 14, 2007 11:29 AM, Chris Dougherty chris@sacbikekitchen.org wrote:
Jake,
I'll try to shed a somewhat professional light on this. I'm a planner here in Sacramento. Most cities have provisions for commercial uses in residentially zoned area, especially if the site was used for commercial in the past. If you have your 501c3 this may work to your advantage. Staff may understand the constraints of small non-profit support service and turn a blind eye. I would call the local planning office to see what provisions if any exist. Another thing to look at is this. When was the site last operating as commercial? We have a provision for non-conforming uses that if the use was abandoned for 1 year it will loose the legal non-conforming status. If this site was recently a commercial use then you may be able to just set up shop.
Hope this helps
Chris Dougherty Sacramento Bicycle Kitchen www.sacbikekitchen.org
On 11/14/07, Macho Philipovich macho@resist.ca wrote:
hey jake. the derailer bicycle collective in denver had zoning problems they weren't able to resolve, and had to move. their website is at http://www.derailerbicyclecollective.org/ if you want to get in touch with them. i think they have an archive of news pieces and correspondence between them and the city when they were going through it you could probably look at (not on the website).
then again, i think the only reason it became a problem is because one of the neighbours complained, so that may not be an issue for you.
in canada, where our shop is, i know all you have to do is pay a small fee and apply to the city for a "zoning variance" on the house, where they basically put up posters to see if anyone in the neighbourhood has a problem with it. if no one does, that particular building can is exempt from certain zoning regulations. i'm not sure if it works the same way south of the border.
good luck, macho
Jake Liefer wrote:
Hello, I operate a small bike Co-op in a small, run down town called Beaver Falls, PA. We're looking into purchasing a location and think we've found the perfect spot. It's a former business / house with a three car garage and a large glass storefront area. The only problem is that
it's zoned residential even though it used to be a business many years ago. The street is pretty run down, with three of the four 'neighbors' being vacant housing, so I'm not too worried about neighbors complaining about it. I'd like to paint our logo on the garage but I'm afraid that it my draw too much attention from the zoning people. Do any of your co-ops operate in non-commercialy zoned space? Have you had any problems arise because of it? Thanks, Jake _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
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Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
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I would recommend researching zoning laws, gather some supporters of your idea, and taking it to your local civic meeting with a plea that your Co-op would benefit the neighborhood. You probably have some gray area being a non traditional business, not all zoning laws are the same, so I would say start there. good luck, I hope you get some more feedback. -Heather Edwards, bikecityrecyclery fayetteville, ar.
On Nov 14, 2007 12:20 AM, Jake Liefer jakeliefer@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, I operate a small bike Co-op in a small, run down town called Beaver Falls, PA. We're looking into purchasing a location and think we've found the perfect spot. It's a former business / house with a three car garage and a large glass storefront area. The only problem is that it's zoned residential even though it used to be a business many years ago. The street is pretty run down, with three of the four 'neighbors' being vacant housing, so I'm not too worried about neighbors complaining about it. I'd like to paint our logo on the garage but I'm afraid that it my draw too much attention from the zoning people. Do any of your co-ops operate in non-commercialy zoned space? Have you had any problems arise because of it? Thanks, Jake _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@lists.bikecollectives.org
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...
participants (6)
-
Bike City -
Chris Dougherty -
Jake Liefer -
Jay Varner -
Macho Philipovich -
PJ Park