Jonathan,

No, that's not it at all.

I have a bit more of a problem with popularizing flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit.

But thanks for the generalization.

Best, Victor

Jonathan Morrison wrote:

I agree. I don't want everyone riding bikes, they are just for me and my cool friends! Now I have to drive a car because it is the "alternative" thing to do.

In all seriousness, this will just end up with more butts on bikes. Hopefully you don't care if they bought a bike from a collective, a local bike shop, department store, urban outfitters, or the other places that will soon jump on the bandwagon -- as long as they riding a bike.

If capitalism makes it cool to ride a bike, cool to be vegetarian, cool to shop local, or whatever initiaitive that would kill to be in the position cycling is right now -- then I say bleed the beast.
Nothing, big or small, is perfect and there is bloodshed in every revolution, so pick your battles wisely.

BTW, This is the 5th time it has been sent to me via various parts of the cycling community email lists. That is the kind of advertising that Urban Outfitters must dream of.

Sincerely,

Jonathan "I am bitter because I knew the band before they were popular" Morrison

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:04 AM, N.O.Bike Project <nolabikeproject@gmail.com mailto:nolabikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start
thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way
that capitalism always seems to persevere.  Just thought y'all
would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B
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The "fixie" I rode to work today has both a front and back brakes, and I personally advocate at least the use of a front brake for people building "fixies" in our community shop. Even the Urban Outfitters bikes have brakes -- I don't think their insurance would be ok otherwise.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Morrison

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:57 PM, N.O.Bike Project < nolabikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:

Jonathan,

No, that's not it at all.

I have a bit more of a problem with popularizing flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit.

But thanks for the generalization.

Best, Victor

Jonathan Morrison wrote:

...

I agree. I don't want everyone riding bikes, they are just for me and my cool friends! Now I have to drive a car because it is the "alternative" thing to do. In all seriousness, this will just end up with more butts on bikes. Hopefully you don't care if they bought a bike from a collective, a local bike shop, department store, urban outfitters, or the other places that will soon jump on the bandwagon -- as long as they riding a bike. If capitalism makes it cool to ride a bike, cool to be vegetarian, cool to shop local, or whatever initiaitive that would kill to be in the position cycling is right now -- then I say bleed the beast. Nothing, big or small, is perfect and there is bloodshed in every revolution, so pick your battles wisely. BTW, This is the 5th time it has been sent to me via various parts of the cycling community email lists. That is the kind of advertising that Urban Outfitters must dream of.

Sincerely,

Jonathan "I am bitter because I knew the band before they were popular" Morrison

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:04 AM, N.O.Bike Project < nolabikeproject@gmail.com mailto:nolabikeproject@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere. Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:

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there's defintely a romanticism of riding with fixed cogs. It is a more mechanically simpler design and therefore, conjures up the connotations of 'purity' that is really fashionable.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Wendy Monroe wendy.monroe@usermail.comwrote:

This reminds me to ask something I've been wondering for awhile: why is riding with a fixed cog relatively fashionable, compared to riding with a. a one-speed coaster brake hub, or b. an internally-geared rear hub?

Please educate me!

Wendy Monroe ( 'no official name for project yet', Amsterdam)

On 10 Sep 2009, at 19:04, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

Hey y'all,

...

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere. Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:

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Better for winter.

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

-----Original Message----- From: Nathan Pierce natnc17@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:33:48 To: The Think Tankthethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation!

It's simple... and quiet!

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Boson Au instructions@gmail.com wrote:

From: Boson Au instructions@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation! To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 12:06 PM there's defintely a romanticism of riding with fixed cogs.  It is a more mechanically simpler design and therefore, conjures up the connotations of 'purity' that is really fashionable.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Wendy Monroe wendy.monroe@usermail.com wrote:

This reminds me to ask something I've been wondering for awhile:  why is riding with a fixed cog relatively fashionable, compared to riding with

a. a one-speed coaster brake hub,  or

b. an internally-geared rear hub?

Please educate me!

Wendy Monroe

( 'no official name for project yet', Amsterdam)

On 10 Sep 2009, at 19:04, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere.  Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B

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Josh, If only I would have had the presence of mind to state my position with such clarity. Thanks so much for communicating what I could not. Victor

joshua muir wrote:

Okay Okay- generally fashion icons are born and blow-up due to a confluence of factors.

a. There is indeed something to riding a fixed gear: it can be challenging and satisfying to master. It can be fun simple light etc etc. . . super fun actually.

b. It is macho: the "challenge" refered to above. get rid of the front brake and it can be dangerous (you're then relying on the fixed assembly not coming unfixed and your ability to slow and stop with only your drive train and only the rear wheel)

c. it is highly romanticized: the image of gritty, hardcore messengers flying thru SF and NY traffic up and down hills with just one gear and "no brakes" has obviously captured the imagination of many a young cyclist (myself included)

d. It "requires" special equipment- you can build a fixie out of an old road bike and freewheel hub "If you know what you're doing" or you can invest in specific track equipment. This places the fixed gear in a special class of cycling- People "in the know". such differentiation seems to always inflate the ego and elevate the class.

So, It makes sense that folks are captivated by it, and it makes sense that people are trying to capitalize on it. I think that for the most part, we are all ready to hate on Urban outfitters on multiple levels, but it's just cause their taking something we like and finding the cheapest, catchiest, and most soulless way to mass market it and make a buck all the while hoping someone will think they're way cool for doing it.

josh

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM, <winter.snowy.rose@gmail.com mailto:winter.snowy.rose@gmail.com> wrote:

Better for winter.

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

-----Original Message-----
From: Nathan Pierce <natnc17@yahoo.com <mailto:natnc17@yahoo.com>>

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:33:48
To: The Think Tank<thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
<mailto:thethinktank@bikecollectives.org>>
Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation!


It's simple... and quiet!

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Boson Au <instructions@gmail.com
<mailto:instructions@gmail.com>> wrote:

> From: Boson Au <instructions@gmail.com
<mailto:instructions@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation!
> To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
<mailto:thethinktank@bikecollectives.org>>
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 12:06 PM
> there's defintely a romanticism of
> riding with fixed cogs.  It is a more mechanically simpler
> design and therefore, conjures up the connotations of
> 'purity' that is really fashionable. 
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Wendy Monroe
<wendy.monroe@usermail.com <mailto:wendy.monroe@usermail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> This reminds me to ask something I've been wondering
> for awhile:  why is riding with a fixed cog relatively
> fashionable, compared to riding with
>
> a. a one-speed coaster brake hub,  or
>
> b. an internally-geared rear hub?
>
>
>
> Please educate me!
>
>
>
> Wendy Monroe
>
> ( 'no official name for project yet', Amsterdam)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10 Sep 2009, at 19:04, N.O.Bike Project wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hey y'all,
>
>
>
> This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and
> start thinking about the commodification of bike culture,
> and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere.
>  Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool
> these days.
>
>
>
>
> I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.
>
>
>
> Enjoy.
>
>
>
> http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/
>
>
>
> Victor
>
>
>
> Plan B
>
>_______________________________________________
>
> Thethinktank mailing list
>
> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
<mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org
<mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org>
>
> To manage your subscription, plase visit:
>
>
http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
> Thethinktank mailing list
>
> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
<mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org
<mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>_______________________________________________
> Thethinktank mailing list
> Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org
<mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org>
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TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org
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-- Joshua Muir muirjoshua@gmail.com mailto:muirjoshua@gmail.com

Frances Cycles -- www.francescycles.com http://www.francescycles.com Handbuilt cycling framesets Touring, Track, Road,Cross, and Cycletrucks for hauling any distance (831) 469-3369

The Bicycle Church Collective Community Self-Service Cycle Repair 3pm to 7pm everyday except Sunday 703 Pacific Ave (enter on Spruce St) Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (831) 425-2453

---

---

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Whoa, guys, I took off for a couple of hours to run some errands, and
all those 'fashion' and 'fixie' emails piled up. I confess, to a fondness for internally geared hubs, especially extra- quiet Shimano Alfines. Does anyone besides me love the clickety click
of well oiled pawls?

I agree that the loop of chain around the derailleur seems excessive
and ugly... but sometimes... gears are necessary!

I appreciate that it takes a certain skill to maintain track stands at
stoplights... but compare that to the pleasure of placing a pawl
spring just right with a pair of tweezers!

Que is mas macho?

Is is a public vs. private thing.. ie track stand at an intersection,
vs. the machitude of knowing how to set that tiny spring into its
place at the workbench?

I prefer the option of having different gears available... even though
Amsterdam is hella flat, sometimes the wind can be f-in' strong.

How about riding geared hubs, all you fixie people in San Francisco?
Is there any shame in that? How are your knees feeling?

As far as the 'people in the know' argument, it seems to me, that the
more people try to differentiate themselves from the 'herd' ( people
with derailleured bikes) by riding fixies, the more they conform to
the stereotype of being a 'fixie-riding-person.

Ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, ein Speed!

It's a paradox! I propose that everyone who wants to differentiate
his/herself make their bikes truly individual by decorating them, and
people should choose their gears according to whether the place they
ride is hilly or not.

And, I'd like to give a nod of respect to the discreet machisma of
knowing how to maintain one's own geared hubs.

sincerely,

Wendy Monroe

On 11 Sep 2009, at 00:56, joshua muir wrote:

Okay Okay- generally fashion icons are born and blow-up due to a
confluence of factors.

a. There is indeed something to riding a fixed gear: it can be
challenging and satisfying to master. It can be fun simple light
etc etc. . . super fun actually.

b. It is macho: the "challenge" refered to above. get rid of the
front brake and it can be dangerous (you're then relying on the
fixed assembly not coming unfixed and your ability to slow and stop
with only your drive train and only the rear wheel)

c. it is highly romanticized: the image of gritty, hardcore
messengers flying thru SF and NY traffic up and down hills with just
one gear and "no brakes" has obviously captured the imagination of
many a young cyclist (myself included)

d. It "requires" special equipment- you can build a fixie out of
an old road bike and freewheel hub "If you know what you're doing"
or you can invest in specific track equipment. This places the
fixed gear in a special class of cycling- People "in the know".
such differentiation seems to always inflate the ego and elevate the
class.

So, It makes sense that folks are captivated by it, and it makes
sense that people are trying to capitalize on it. I think that for
the most part, we are all ready to hate on Urban outfitters on
multiple levels, but it's just cause their taking something we like
and finding the cheapest, catchiest, and most soulless way to mass
market it and make a buck all the while hoping someone will think
they're way cool for doing it.

josh

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM, winter.snowy.rose@gmail.com wrote: Better for winter.

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

-----Original Message----- From: Nathan Pierce natnc17@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:33:48 To: The Think Tankthethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation!

It's simple... and quiet!

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Boson Au instructions@gmail.com wrote:

...

From: Boson Au instructions@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation! To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 12:06 PM there's defintely a romanticism of riding with fixed cogs. It is a more mechanically simpler design and therefore, conjures up the connotations of 'purity' that is really fashionable.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Wendy Monroe <wendy.monroe@usermail.com

wrote:

This reminds me to ask something I've been wondering for awhile: why is riding with a fixed cog relatively fashionable, compared to riding with

a. a one-speed coaster brake hub, or

b. an internally-geared rear hub?

Please educate me!

Wendy Monroe

( 'no official name for project yet', Amsterdam)

On 10 Sep 2009, at 19:04, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere. Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B

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-- Joshua Muir muirjoshua@gmail.com

Frances Cycles -- www.francescycles.com Handbuilt cycling framesets Touring, Track, Road,Cross, and Cycletrucks for hauling any distance (831) 469-3369

The Bicycle Church Collective Community Self-Service Cycle Repair 3pm to 7pm everyday except Sunday 703 Pacific Ave (enter on Spruce St) Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (831) 425-2453 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...

I don't mean to be *bashing* one speed fixed gear bikes, just that
they strike me as inherently less versatile than the alternatives.

Wendy

On 11 Sep 2009, at 07:41, Mark Rehder wrote:

I don't mind fixies. I've tried them and don't really care for them
(I like coasting - wheeee.....).

I'm definitely a fan of hub gears. I have a bunch of bikes with
Sturmey 3-speeds - a Raleigh Twenty folder, a Raleigh Superbe (both
with their original hubs), one of those replica cruisers with modern
SA hub (these new ones do not have the dreaded freewheeling zone
between 2nd and 3rd), and an elderly CCM tandem that went from a one
speed to three with one of these new SA hubs. I also have a 1950's
Dynothree hub (SA 3 speed with Dynohub generator built in) waiting
to be laced into a rim for the right bike.

I have a Sachs 3x7 on my big cargo trike, and a 7-speed Shimano
Nexus on my winter bike. I also have two single-speed back-pedal- brake bikes; one a CCM from 1937 and the other a Sunshine made
shortly after WW2. I even have a at least two derailer geared
bikes, though one of them is a customer-built chopper with 5-foot
fork. :)

Back to fixies. I can't recall if I've posted this here before, but
last year I had this exchange with a customer:

Him: I'd like to buy a fixed gear bike. Or maybe build one up. My
friends say they are really cool. Me: we don't sell those, but we should have all the stuff you'd need
to build one, aside from the track hub. But whatever you do, please
make sure you have at least one brake on the bike, and two is
better. No matter what your friends might say. Him: Well of course! You mean that people ride them without brakes?
How do they stop? Me: Umm, do you know what a fixed gear bike is, and how it works? Him: No. Me: (after resisting the urge to say "you farckin' clueless
trendoid!") I would suggest that you try out one of your friends'
bikes first, just to make sure you like this type of bike.

That, my friends, was the final sign of consumerism meeting clueless
hipsterdom. Or something. That said, if folks are riding bikes
(and riding them safely with regard to other road users) it's always
a good thing.

Did you know that back in the Old Days a budding young "Schwinn- approved" mechanic, as part of passing his final training, had to be
able to take apart a Sturmey 3-speed hub and put it back together
without using the manual?

Mark Rehder - General Manager re-Cycles Bicycle Co-op http://re-cycles.ca

On 10-Sep-09, at 7:32 PM, Wendy Monroe wrote:

...

Whoa, guys, I took off for a couple of hours to run some errands,
and all those 'fashion' and 'fixie' emails piled up. I confess, to a fondness for internally geared hubs, especially
extra-quiet Shimano Alfines. Does anyone besides me love the
clickety click of well oiled pawls?

I agree that the loop of chain around the derailleur seems
excessive and ugly... but sometimes... gears are necessary!

I appreciate that it takes a certain skill to maintain track stands
at stoplights... but compare that to the pleasure of placing a pawl
spring just right with a pair of tweezers!

Que is mas macho?

Is is a public vs. private thing.. ie track stand at an
intersection, vs. the machitude of knowing how to set that tiny
spring into its place at the workbench?

I prefer the option of having different gears available... even
though Amsterdam is hella flat, sometimes the wind can be f-in'
strong.

How about riding geared hubs, all you fixie people in San
Francisco? Is there any shame in that? How are your knees feeling?

As far as the 'people in the know' argument, it seems to me, that
the more people try to differentiate themselves from the
'herd' ( people with derailleured bikes) by riding fixies, the more
they conform to the stereotype of being a 'fixie-riding-person.

Ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, ein Speed!

It's a paradox! I propose that everyone who wants to differentiate
his/herself make their bikes truly individual by decorating them,
and people should choose their gears according to whether the place
they ride is hilly or not.

And, I'd like to give a nod of respect to the discreet machisma of
knowing how to maintain one's own geared hubs.

sincerely,

Wendy Monroe

On 11 Sep 2009, at 00:56, joshua muir wrote:

...

Okay Okay- generally fashion icons are born and blow-up due to a
confluence of factors.

a. There is indeed something to riding a fixed gear: it can be
challenging and satisfying to master. It can be fun simple light
etc etc. . . super fun actually.

b. It is macho: the "challenge" refered to above. get rid of the
front brake and it can be dangerous (you're then relying on the
fixed assembly not coming unfixed and your ability to slow and
stop with only your drive train and only the rear wheel)

c. it is highly romanticized: the image of gritty, hardcore
messengers flying thru SF and NY traffic up and down hills with
just one gear and "no brakes" has obviously captured the
imagination of many a young cyclist (myself included)

d. It "requires" special equipment- you can build a fixie out of
an old road bike and freewheel hub "If you know what you're doing"
or you can invest in specific track equipment. This places the
fixed gear in a special class of cycling- People "in the know".
such differentiation seems to always inflate the ego and elevate
the class.

So, It makes sense that folks are captivated by it, and it makes
sense that people are trying to capitalize on it. I think that
for the most part, we are all ready to hate on Urban outfitters on
multiple levels, but it's just cause their taking something we
like and finding the cheapest, catchiest, and most soulless way to
mass market it and make a buck all the while hoping someone will
think they're way cool for doing it.

josh

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM, winter.snowy.rose@gmail.com
wrote: Better for winter.

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

-----Original Message----- From: Nathan Pierce natnc17@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:33:48 To: The Think Tankthethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation!

It's simple... and quiet!

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Boson Au instructions@gmail.com wrote:

...

From: Boson Au instructions@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Please Explain Fixie Fixation! To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 12:06 PM there's defintely a romanticism of riding with fixed cogs. It is a more mechanically simpler design and therefore, conjures up the connotations of 'purity' that is really fashionable.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Wendy Monroe <wendy.monroe@usermail.com

wrote:

This reminds me to ask something I've been wondering for awhile: why is riding with a fixed cog relatively fashionable, compared to riding with

a. a one-speed coaster brake hub, or

b. an internally-geared rear hub?

Please educate me!

Wendy Monroe

( 'no official name for project yet', Amsterdam)

On 10 Sep 2009, at 19:04, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere. Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B

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The Bicycle Church Collective Community Self-Service Cycle Repair 3pm to 7pm everyday except Sunday 703 Pacific Ave (enter on Spruce St) Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (831) 425-2453 _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.o...

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I have a fixed conversion, a 24spd tourer and am going to try to build up a 5 speed internal hub cruiser.

I like all of them for different reasons. The fixed conversion is fun, zippy, and really simple to maintain. It's definitely possible to ride in baltimore w/ a fixed gear (of a low enough ratio) and so I do. It's definitely safer for me to ride it in the rain vs a geared bike (and I do use a front brake, and I do put my foot down at lights!)

I... wish I could've attended the 3 spd hub workshop at bikebike. However, we have a ton here so I can fool around with and not worry about breaking anything.

I love my lht because I can haul a full touring rig and not feel like a mess after a day of riding. However, I don't ride it everyday because it kind of is 'too much'

anyways, yeah not too many people build up fixies around here; most of them opt for the unsafe way of looping a chain around a regular multi geared hub and the inner chainring (and I keep telling people how dangerous it is and if they are really going to do that to just put a deraileur on it and lock the limit screws.... but do they listen?) We kind of drilled it into people's heads that building a fixie does cost a certain amount of money.

anyways, bikes are awesome. learning how to build it yourself is even more awesome. buying a 'customized' hi-ten steel bike for 400 makes ya kind of a mark.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:53 AM, bovineoaks@aol.com wrote:

Guess where John Barnett got his start from? I Have some of the original manuals from the Schwinn School, Very nice drawings for basic parts.

Did you know that back in the Old Days a budding young "Schwinn-approved" mechanic, as part of passing his final training, had to be able to take apart a Sturmey 3-speed hub and put it back together without using the manual?

Mark Rehder - General Manager re-Cycles Bicycle Co-op http://re-cycles.ca

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Victor,

you are an idiot.

"getting people on bikes"

what else do you want?

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Fhar Miess fhartha@gmail.com wrote:

Also note this article from yesterday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style

Fhar

On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:04 PM, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

Hey y'all,

...

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere. Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:

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Dear Reno Bikes,

Well said. That took a lot of effort and intelligence. I can't wait to meet you in person.

Sincerely, Plan B

eno bikes wrote:

Victor,

you are an idiot.

"getting people on bikes"

what else do you want?

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Fhar Miess <fhartha@gmail.com mailto:fhartha@gmail.com> wrote:

Also note this article from yesterday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style>

Fhar


On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:04 PM, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

    Hey y'all,

    This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start
    thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the
    way that capitalism always seems to persevere.  Just thought
    y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

    I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

    Enjoy.

    http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

    Victor

    Plan B
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Maybe I read too much into things, but I thought Reno was writing ironically and actually directing their ire at Salt Lake's singular focus on "getting people on bikes". I have no clues though.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:33 PM, N.O.Bike Project nolabikeproject@gmail.com wrote:

Dear Reno Bikes,

Well said. That took a lot of effort and intelligence. I can't wait to meet you in person.

Sincerely, Plan B

eno bikes wrote:

...

Victor,

you are an idiot.

"getting people on bikes"

what else do you want?

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Fhar Miess <fhartha@gmail.com mailto:fhartha@gmail.com> wrote:

Also note this article from yesterday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style

Fhar

On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:04 PM, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start        thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the        way that capitalism always seems to persevere.  Just thought        y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B        _______________________________________________        Thethinktank mailing list        Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org        mailto:Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org        To unsubscribe, send a blank email to        TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org        mailto:TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org        To manage your subscription, plase visit:

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hey- calling names is super uncool and Victor is no idiot.

cool it

josh

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:18 PM, reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.comwrote:

Victor,

you are an idiot.

"getting people on bikes"

what else do you want?

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Fhar Miess fhartha@gmail.com wrote:

...

Also note this article from yesterday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style

Fhar

On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:04 PM, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

Hey y'all,

...

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere. Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:

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Hi everyone,

I'd like to second the comments that this is not the intended purpose of this list.

As a cyclist, I get harassed by cops, cars, people walking, and like to think of this list as a place where I don't have to worry about that happening.

We have a big sign in our shop that says "mutual aid and respect." Can we do that here?

~carolyn

www.troybikerescue.org  "When shall we live if not now?" - M.F.K. Fisher

--- On Fri, 9/11/09, ronald ferrucci ronald.ferrucci@gmail.com wrote:

From: ronald ferrucci ronald.ferrucci@gmail.com Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Gross. To: "The Think Tank" thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 5:01 AM

I would actually place a vote on Victor being an idiot, or at least a bit disingenous. His intial post was about "the commodification of bike culture" and capitalism. Nothing about safety and risk issues with flip-flop hubs. However, when called out on his elitist statement he tried to say his problem was with "popularizing flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit." There of course was nothing in his intial post about this. Moreover, in his intial post he said he did not "know why" but that it "just made [him] puke a little." Either he is an idiot or he is being dishonest. Of course, I could be wrong about that and it his statement may have been misread, but one cannot blame Jonathan for reading a bit of elitism into the post. I do not see how Jonathan was making a generalization at all there, either. Victor, how do you know that UrbanOutfitters is "popularizing flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit"? Is it just because they are a large corporation? I hate UrbanOutfitters as much as the next guy, but I would assume, as Jonathan pointed out, that they would make every effort to warn the consumer of any potential danger from the products they sell, even if only to protect them from liability. Yes, their main interest is in making a huge profit, and taking precautions from being sued is a part of making huge profits (or at least keeping more of the profits).

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, joshua muir muirjoshua@gmail.com wrote:

hey- calling names is super uncool and Victor is no idiot.

cool it

josh

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:18 PM, reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.com wrote:

...

Victor,

you are an idiot.

"getting people on bikes"

what else do you want?

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Fhar Miess fhartha@gmail.com wrote:

...

Also note this article from yesterday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style

Fhar

On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:04 PM, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

...

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere.  Just thought y'all would like to see what's cool these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

Plan B _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank@bikecollectives.org To unsubscribe, send a blank email to TheThinkTank-leave@bikecollectives.org To manage your subscription, plase visit:

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Oh, gotcha...expressions of opinions different than your own will be responded to with name-calling...should we pull out a big tube of bike grease, stick some feathers on Victor and spit on him or something like that?

we might not all agree on the issue of "growing/mainstreaming/insert your fave word about it here" bike culture, but hey, this is a discussion list and you may not always agree with the opinions put out...if I recall correctly, this is how a discussion works - someone expresses an opinion, someone else expresses theirs.

If you don't like someone's point, enlighten us with yours, but it doesn't have to be hostile and certainly doesn't require name-calling.

By the way, if you are gonna go there and insult someone, at least have the nerve to sign your name to your email. wanda

Wanda Pelegrina Caldas Community Cycles, Boulder's only non-profit bike shop Sponsor an Earn-A-Biker for $100 today. Use our secure online donation form. Thanks!!

-----Original Message----- From: thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org [mailto:thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org] On Behalf Of ronald ferrucci Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:01 AM To: The Think Tank Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Gross.

I would actually place a vote on Victor being an idiot, or at least a bit disingenous. His intial post was about "the commodification of bike culture" and capitalism. Nothing about safety and risk issues with flip-flop hubs. However, when called out on his elitist statement he tried to say his problem was with "popularizing flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit." There of course was nothing in his intial post about this. Moreover, in his intial post he said he did not "know why" but that it "just made [him] puke a little." Either he is an idiot or he is being dishonest. Of course, I could be wrong about that and it his statement may have been misread, but one cannot blame Jonathan for reading a bit of elitism into the post. I do not see how Jonathan was making a generalization at all there, either. Victor, how do you know that UrbanOutfitters is "popularizing flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit"? Is it just because they are a large corporation? I hate UrbanOutfitters as much as the next guy, but I would assume, as Jonathan pointed out, that they would make every effort to warn the consumer of any potential danger from the products they sell, even if only to protect them from liability. Yes, their main interest is in making a huge profit, and taking precautions from being sued is a part of making huge profits (or at least keeping more of the profits).

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, joshua muir muirjoshua@gmail.com wrote:

hey- calling names is super uncool and Victor is no idiot.

cool it

josh

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:18 PM, reno bikes renobikeproject@gmail.com wrote:

...

Victor,

you are an idiot.

"getting people on bikes"

what else do you want?

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Fhar Miess fhartha@gmail.com wrote:

...

Also note this article from yesterday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/fashion/10bikes.html?_r=3&ref=style

Fhar

On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:04 PM, N.O.Bike Project wrote:

...

Hey y'all,

This isn't vital or on topic, unless you dig deep and start thinking about the commodification of bike culture, and the way that capitalism always seems to persevere. Just thought y'all would like to see what's

cool

...

...

...

these days.

I don't know why, but this just made me puke a little.

Enjoy.

http://bikes.urbanoutfitters.com/

Victor

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...

...

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...

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...

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I think the danger referred to may be with someone taking the brakes off the bike because they seeing other people riding brake-less and then using the freewheel side. Not sure though. Maybe Victor can enlighten us since it was he that suggested the possibility. To Wanda and Victor, I am sure the person who did not sign there name did not leave it off because they were gutless. Hell, I rarely sign my name to e-mails because I am just used to having my name in my e-mail address.

I do not think anyone was attacking Victor for having a different opinion, but for, seemingly, acting elitist. I say seemingly, because it may have not been with an elitist intention but with the disgust of a big faceless corporation, knowing from ripping off underground culture as it was, jumping onto the fixie bandwagon. Some people may have seen it as elitist, I had an issue with the flip-flopping to the safety issue.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Sam Santos lalato@gmail.com wrote:

Can someone explain to me the risks or dangers with flip flop hubs?  I've never heard there was a risk involved, but I'm a novice to this sort of thing... so an explanation would be nice.

Thanks! --sam

...

-----Original Message----- From: thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org [mailto:thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org] On Behalf Of ronald ferrucci Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:01 AM To: The Think Tank Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Gross.

UrbanOutfitters is "popularizing flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit"

---

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Sorry, n00b mistake. Won't happen again.

Joel

From: joelgillian@hotmail.com To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:44:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Gross.

Hi Sam! What's up?

Joel

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:25:36 -0600 From: lalato@gmail.com To: thethinktank@bikecollectives.org Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Gross.

Can someone explain to me the risks or dangers with flip flop hubs? I've never heard there was a risk involved, but I'm a novice to this sort of thing... so an explanation would be nice.

Thanks! --sam

-----Original Message-----

From: thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org

[mailto:thethinktank-bounces@bikecollectives.org] On Behalf Of ronald

ferrucci

Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:01 AM

To: The Think Tank

Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Gross.

UrbanOutfitters is "popularizing

flip-flop hubs without conscientious effort to explain the inherent

risk in operation in the interest of (huge)profit"

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