- TheThinkTank - lists.bikecollectives.org

plan you route
by Tom Emm 19 Mar '08

19 Mar '08

Have fun with this google toy. www.bikely.org --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Surveys for volunteer retention
by Anibal Davila 19 Mar '08

19 Mar '08

hey all, to gain some insight into the universal problem of getting and keeping volunteers, im currently working on a survey. I suspect people hesitate to tell me in person that they think the place is dirty, the volunteers are rude and that i should shave more often, but people love giving that kind of input anonymously. I want to find out the differences between regular clients and casual volunteers. I also want to find out what keeps casual volunteers from becoming regular volunteers. I imagine disseminating it through all of our electronic outlets (list serve, facebook group, Flickr group) as well using printed out forms in the shop. Has anyone done this before? i would love to see other peoples surveys/polls. Did you get useful data from it? problems in collection? thanks! Anibal, Bikepirate

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unsubscribe me please
by sparkltingting＠aol.com 18 Mar '08

18 Mar '08

?hey guys, please unsubscribe me. thanks, hannae ( from bethlehem pa who moved to portland oregon.)

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Re: [TheThinkTank] Atlanta tornado
by tom m. 18 Mar '08

18 Mar '08

Are the folks in Atlanta, Georgia okay? A big tornado swept right through the downtown area.> From: thethinktank-request(a)bikecollectives.org> Subject: Thethinktank Digest, Vol 19, Issue 21> To: thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:59:04 -0700> > Send Thethinktank mailing list submissions to> thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.…> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> thethinktank-request(a)bikecollectives.org> > You can reach the person managing the list at> thethinktank-owner(a)bikecollectives.org> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Thethinktank digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: sexist bs - is finished. (Jonathan Morrison)> 2. Illustrated Fix a Flat Literature? (Rich Points)> 3. Re: Illustrated Fix a Flat Literature? (Macho Philipovich)> 4. Re: Illustrated Fix a Flat Literature? (Rich Points)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:03:11 -0600> From: "Jonathan Morrison" <jonathan(a)slcbikecollective.org>> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] sexist bs - is finished.> To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org>> Message-ID:> <4dd29fd10803170803u2d773638w83b7b11bf0d19f0f(a)mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > If you feel the compelling desire to further this thread, please reply to> the individuals instead of the whole list. Otherwise there will be no need> to unsubscribe, it will be done automatically.> > -- > Sincerely,> > Jonathan Morrison> Executive Director> Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective> 2312 S. West Temple> Salt Lake City, UT 84115> w: 801-328-2453> c: 801-688-0183> f: 801-466-3856> www.slcbikecollective.org> > Get Addicted to Crank!> http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/> > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:43 AM, CLINTON BIGGS <letlovein2(a)msn.com> wrote:> > > Please, in all seriousness, do not throw the word "retard" around like> > its nothing. YOU do not get to decide whether its offensive or not. As the> > father of a child with autism (yes I have seen Rainman, thanks) I can say> > that it is a stigmatizing word. Sorry to go back on my promise never to post> > again, but I had not unsubscribed yet and now wish I had. But yes, please be> > careful with your choice of words, if for no other reason than the> > possibility it could save your nose from being flattened by some one who is> > at the end of their patience. And yes I remember fun, but its been a while> > mr. john rotten. Art> >> >> >> > ------------------------------> > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:18:20 -0400> > From: davidhazardous(a)gmail.com> > To: thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org.> > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] sexist bs [WAS: RE: Surveys for volunteer> > retention]> >> >> > #1 nobody was being sexist. reading all the thinktank posts tells us that> > the one who doesn't shave enough is in fact a man, and as a man, i also do> > not shave enough. i've considered waxing my face. thus, the response to> > shaving being the suggestion to waxing is just a thoughtful timesaving> > maneuver.> >> > #2 before bikes were used to spread the gospel of a political system that> > doesn't work except for idealist college kids, they were the toys of rich> > people. as in, the common man (proletariat, bolshevik, etc) couldn't have> > one! who knew?> >> > #3 before cars were stigmatized, bikes were. bikers were "hotdoggers"> > terrorizing horses and pedestrians.> >> > #4 ever hear of bikes? responsible for paved roads.> >> > #5 guess what? people drive more than ride. but more jackasses ride than> > drive. i just don't happen to be a hippie or vegan. but i suffer just as> > much for their political views.> >> > #6 this is hella fun for me, and i'm a good person to boot> >> > #7 looks like you contributed to this jackass thread.> >> > #8 undercovercop, hells yes to drinking whiskey but don't you think that> > "retarded bike games" is offensive to retards? (that's a joke, like the> > original "offensive" comment)> >> > <3 dhx> >> > i am offically gone from thinktank as fast as i came> >> > ...unless...people act like stupids again.> >> > p.s. have fun being white and having dreadlocks. maybe we can all drink> > some yerba mate at the sierra club meeting. oops, too conservative.> > monkeywrench gang reprazent!> >> > On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Geoffrey B <vous.je(a)gmail.com> wrote:> >> > What a jack ass. Threads like these make me not want to contribute.> >> > Thinking that the bike is not a political tool for change is deluding,> > selling your self short. British 19 century commies used the bike to get> > out to factors where the roads have not linked to spread the word of labour> > rights a liberties.> >> > Cars have been extremely stigmatized. They are a political force, they are> > killing everything. Dont kid your self about that. Ever heard of the AAA.> > Responsible for most of the expressways in America.> >> > Dont freak out over being called a hippe vegan. Guess what, vegans and> > hippies drive more then bike. Its not about sexist comments, its keeping a> > positive outlook on cycling. Dont degrade your fellow cyclists, use your> > energy to portray a respectful attitude that motorists lack.> >> > Its not political , its called being a good person. I have fun being a> > good person, dont you. Being a sexist tyrant creates fun on another's> > expense.> >> > Canada,> > Geoff> >> >> >> > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 10:28 PM, David Hazardous <> > davidhazardous(a)gmail.com> wrote:> >> > hey jackasses...> >> > it's threads like these that make the public not take cycling seriously.> > bikes are not a bandwagon for political agendas. bikes are a mode of> > transportation. they help people get to work, the store, and yes, the bar.> > and people eat meat and make sexist remarks just as much on a bike. i am so> > sick of being labeled "vegan" or "hippie" or "liberal" because i ride a bike> > and don't own a car. hey fringe culture: stop co-opting a yet-unstigmatized> > vehicle to turn it into a political soapbox. NOT ALL BIKERS ARE IDEALIST> > TEETOTALERS. bikes aren't going to save the world, they're just going to> > give a few people reliable transportation. and fun. remember that? fun?> >> > flame me all you want,> > dhx> >> >> > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:11 PM, <undercovercop(a)riseup.net> wrote:> >> > wow, michael, i'm sure you meant this in jest, but making cracks about a> > woman having to wax to impress is pretty horribly sexist and leaves a> > real bad taste in my mouth.> >> > and perhaps you have an understanding with anibal that this kind of> > joking around is okay. i have lots of friends i know i can safely tease> > in all sorts of offensive ways. however, this is a public list with> > lots of folks who don't know one another. especially since you say you> > don't know annibal, it's really tempting to read your joke as> > straight-up sexist bullshit.> >> > given how much really good thought and discussion i've seen this> > community put into identifying and rooting out sexist bullshit, i gotta> > say i think you're out of line.> >> > hope you don't take offense,> > benB> > chicago community bike project> >> > --> > 'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist> > the black flag, and begin slitting throats.'> > -h.l. mencken> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Thethinktank mailing list> > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> >> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.…> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Thethinktank mailing list> > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> >> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.…> >> >> >> >> > --> > "Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia" - H.G. Wells> > _______________________________________________> > Thethinktank mailing list> > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> >> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.…> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Thethinktank mailing list> > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> >> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.…> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/pipermail/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org… > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:17:50 -0600> From: Rich Points <rich(a)richpoints.com>> Subject: [TheThinkTank] Illustrated Fix a Flat Literature?> To: The Think Tank <thethinktank(a)lists.bikecollectives.org>> Message-ID: <47DEB5CE.7050308(a)richpoints.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > Hey All,> I'd like to hand out a one page, illustrated instruction sheet on how to> fix a flat. I've searched around but haven't found anything.> > Does anyone know of such a resource?> > Thanks> > -- > Rich Points> Community Cycles Director> http://CommunityCycles.org> Rich(a)CommunityCycles.org> 720-565-6019> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:27:26 -0500> From: Macho Philipovich <macho(a)resist.ca>> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Illustrated Fix a Flat Literature?> To: The Think Tank <thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org>> Message-ID: <47DEB80E.7090007(a)resist.ca>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > There is probably better stuff out there, but here's the Bike Dump's one > page (if you'll allow two sided printing) workshop sheet on tires and > tubes, which is basically on flat fixing. Feel free to critique so it > can be improved.> > http://bike-dump.ca/workshops/01_tubes_tires.pdf> > macho> > Rich Points wrote:> > Hey All,> > I'd like to hand out a one page, illustrated instruction sheet on how to> > fix a flat. I've searched around but haven't found anything.> >> > Does anyone know of such a resource?> >> > Thanks> >> > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:20:48 -0600> From: Rich Points <rich(a)richpoints.com>> Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Illustrated Fix a Flat Literature?> To: The Think Tank <thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org>> Message-ID: <47DEC490.2090909(a)richpoints.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > Not bad, it's the closest thing I've found so far.> > Let me say more about what I'm doing this for. We recently had a bunch > of heavy duty lunch box type things donated to Community Cycles. We're > going to give them to participants in the youth Earn-A-Bike program. > The boxes will then function as a tool box. Kids are welcome to take > the class as many times as they like, each time they will get more tools > for their box. > > The boxes are close to 8.5' X 11'. My idea was to have the illustrated > fix a flat info on the inside of the box. This would be more of a > reminder than a full blown description. Now that I think of it it would > probably look like a comic strip.> > I think the value of this goes beyond the toolbox idea, I think > something like this would be great on our shop wall somewhere.> > Anybody out there have the skills to draw up something like this?> > Peace> Rich> > Macho Philipovich wrote:> > There is probably better stuff out there, but here's the Bike Dump's one > > page (if you'll allow two sided printing) workshop sheet on tires and > > tubes, which is basically on flat fixing. Feel free to critique so it > > can be improved.> >> > http://bike-dump.ca/workshops/01_tubes_tires.pdf> >> > macho> >> > Rich Points wrote:> > > >> Hey All,> >> I'd like to hand out a one page, illustrated instruction sheet on how to> >> fix a flat. I've searched around but haven't found anything.> >>> >> Does anyone know of such a resource?> >>> >> Thanks> >>> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________> > Thethinktank mailing list> > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.…> >> > > > -- > Rich Points> Community Cycles Director> http://CommunityCycles.org> Rich(a)CommunityCycles.org> 720-565-6019> > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://lists.bikecollectives.org/pipermail/thethinktank-bikecollectives.org… > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Thethinktank mailing list> Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.…> > > End of Thethinktank Digest, Vol 19, Issue 21> ******************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/

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Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike rack art contest
by dragonfly＠mac.hush.com 18 Mar '08

18 Mar '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello, Everyone. The Tecumseh BIA in Tecumseh, Ontario is having a Bike Rack Sculpture competition as part of their Gallery Without Walls. They would like submissions of functional sculptures, bike racks that are also art. The application deadline is April 30th, and they'd like drawings and a maquette; the other critera for submissions are on their website. The winners will be chosen by May 15th, and they'd like the racks completed by August 15th. There is $2000(Cdn)"and further details" for each of the winners. "Open to all artists", is what they say, but if you're not Canadian you'll have to figure out if you can do this. Their contest is modelled on the one from Louisville Kentucky, and the sculptures from that place look great. Even if this contest is not feasible for you, setting up something similar in your city might be. Sending them a note supporting the idea might also help Tecumseh's bike boosters. Check out: www.tecumsehbia.com Sasha On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:29:15 -0400 tom emm <tom48236(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Also...www.bikely.org > >On 3/18/08, Ann Altstatt <annaltstatt(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi All, >> This was forwarded to me. . . just passing it on to spread the >word about a >> petition to get Google Maps to add a "Bike There" button to the >top level of >> their mapping interface. It would provide bike specific routing, >not sure >> about travel time estimates though... >> >> http://googlemapsbikethere.org/about/ >> >> For those of you with the power to publish (web site, blog, >print) maybe you >> could put something out there? >> Apologies if this has been posted already and I missed it! >> >> Ann >> _______________________________________________ >> Thethinktank mailing list >> Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- >bikecollectives.org >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Thethinktank mailing list >Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org >http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- >bikecollectives.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify Charset: UTF8 Version: Hush 3.0 wkYEARECAAYFAkfgAvAACgkQ5O7ahKJmrRkTMACgoeuxx3NlwbHyrB+/AOc0wUUs+psA oJ4GuvnDu0goZLEvx51BXmWdtj5e =Uwxt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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bike directions on google maps
by Ann Altstatt 18 Mar '08

18 Mar '08

Hi All, This was forwarded to me. . . just passing it on to spread the word about a petition to get Google Maps to add a "Bike There" button to the top level of their mapping interface. It would provide bike specific routing, not sure about travel time estimates though... http://googlemapsbikethere.org/about/ For those of you with the power to publish (web site, blog, print) maybe you could put something out there? Apologies if this has been posted already and I missed it! Ann

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Illustrated Fix a Flat Literature?
by Rich Points 17 Mar '08

17 Mar '08

Hey All, I'd like to hand out a one page, illustrated instruction sheet on how to fix a flat. I've searched around but haven't found anything. Does anyone know of such a resource? Thanks -- Rich Points Community Cycles Director http://CommunityCycles.org Rich(a)CommunityCycles.org 720-565-6019

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Re: [TheThinkTank] sexist bs - is finished.
by Jonathan Morrison 17 Mar '08

17 Mar '08

If you feel the compelling desire to further this thread, please reply to the individuals instead of the whole list. Otherwise there will be no need to unsubscribe, it will be done automatically. -- Sincerely, Jonathan Morrison Executive Director Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective 2312 S. West Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84115 w: 801-328-2453 c: 801-688-0183 f: 801-466-3856 www.slcbikecollective.org Get Addicted to Crank! http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/ On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:43 AM, CLINTON BIGGS <letlovein2(a)msn.com> wrote: > Please, in all seriousness, do not throw the word "retard" around like > its nothing. YOU do not get to decide whether its offensive or not. As the > father of a child with autism (yes I have seen Rainman, thanks) I can say > that it is a stigmatizing word. Sorry to go back on my promise never to post > again, but I had not unsubscribed yet and now wish I had. But yes, please be > careful with your choice of words, if for no other reason than the > possibility it could save your nose from being flattened by some one who is > at the end of their patience. And yes I remember fun, but its been a while > mr. john rotten. Art > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:18:20 -0400 > From: davidhazardous(a)gmail.com > To: thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org. > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] sexist bs [WAS: RE: Surveys for volunteer > retention] > > > #1 nobody was being sexist. reading all the thinktank posts tells us that > the one who doesn't shave enough is in fact a man, and as a man, i also do > not shave enough. i've considered waxing my face. thus, the response to > shaving being the suggestion to waxing is just a thoughtful timesaving > maneuver. > > #2 before bikes were used to spread the gospel of a political system that > doesn't work except for idealist college kids, they were the toys of rich > people. as in, the common man (proletariat, bolshevik, etc) couldn't have > one! who knew? > > #3 before cars were stigmatized, bikes were. bikers were "hotdoggers" > terrorizing horses and pedestrians. > > #4 ever hear of bikes? responsible for paved roads. > > #5 guess what? people drive more than ride. but more jackasses ride than > drive. i just don't happen to be a hippie or vegan. but i suffer just as > much for their political views. > > #6 this is hella fun for me, and i'm a good person to boot > > #7 looks like you contributed to this jackass thread. > > #8 undercovercop, hells yes to drinking whiskey but don't you think that > "retarded bike games" is offensive to retards? (that's a joke, like the > original "offensive" comment) > > <3 dhx > > i am offically gone from thinktank as fast as i came > > ...unless...people act like stupids again. > > p.s. have fun being white and having dreadlocks. maybe we can all drink > some yerba mate at the sierra club meeting. oops, too conservative. > monkeywrench gang reprazent! > > On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Geoffrey B <vous.je(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > What a jack ass. Threads like these make me not want to contribute. > > Thinking that the bike is not a political tool for change is deluding, > selling your self short. British 19 century commies used the bike to get > out to factors where the roads have not linked to spread the word of labour > rights a liberties. > > Cars have been extremely stigmatized. They are a political force, they are > killing everything. Dont kid your self about that. Ever heard of the AAA. > Responsible for most of the expressways in America. > > Dont freak out over being called a hippe vegan. Guess what, vegans and > hippies drive more then bike. Its not about sexist comments, its keeping a > positive outlook on cycling. Dont degrade your fellow cyclists, use your > energy to portray a respectful attitude that motorists lack. > > Its not political , its called being a good person. I have fun being a > good person, dont you. Being a sexist tyrant creates fun on another's > expense. > > Canada, > Geoff > > > > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 10:28 PM, David Hazardous < > davidhazardous(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hey jackasses... > > it's threads like these that make the public not take cycling seriously. > bikes are not a bandwagon for political agendas. bikes are a mode of > transportation. they help people get to work, the store, and yes, the bar. > and people eat meat and make sexist remarks just as much on a bike. i am so > sick of being labeled "vegan" or "hippie" or "liberal" because i ride a bike > and don't own a car. hey fringe culture: stop co-opting a yet-unstigmatized > vehicle to turn it into a political soapbox. NOT ALL BIKERS ARE IDEALIST > TEETOTALERS. bikes aren't going to save the world, they're just going to > give a few people reliable transportation. and fun. remember that? fun? > > flame me all you want, > dhx > > > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:11 PM, <undercovercop(a)riseup.net> wrote: > > wow, michael, i'm sure you meant this in jest, but making cracks about a > woman having to wax to impress is pretty horribly sexist and leaves a > real bad taste in my mouth. > > and perhaps you have an understanding with anibal that this kind of > joking around is okay. i have lots of friends i know i can safely tease > in all sorts of offensive ways. however, this is a public list with > lots of folks who don't know one another. especially since you say you > don't know annibal, it's really tempting to read your joke as > straight-up sexist bullshit. > > given how much really good thought and discussion i've seen this > community put into identifying and rooting out sexist bullshit, i gotta > say i think you're out of line. > > hope you don't take offense, > benB > chicago community bike project > > -- > 'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist > the black flag, and begin slitting throats.' > -h.l. mencken > > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > > > > -- > "Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia" - H.G. Wells > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > >

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sexist bs [WAS: RE: Surveys for volunteer retention]
by undercovercop＠riseup.net 17 Mar '08

17 Mar '08

wow, michael, i'm sure you meant this in jest, but making cracks about a woman having to wax to impress is pretty horribly sexist and leaves a real bad taste in my mouth. and perhaps you have an understanding with anibal that this kind of joking around is okay. i have lots of friends i know i can safely tease in all sorts of offensive ways. however, this is a public list with lots of folks who don't know one another. especially since you say you don't know annibal, it's really tempting to read your joke as straight-up sexist bullshit. given how much really good thought and discussion i've seen this community put into identifying and rooting out sexist bullshit, i gotta say i think you're out of line. hope you don't take offense, benB chicago community bike project -- 'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.' -h.l. mencken

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Re: [TheThinkTank] sexist bs [WAS: RE: Surveys for volunteer retention]
by dragonfly＠mac.hush.com 16 Mar '08

16 Mar '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, All. I can't believe this thread is still ongoing. My first thought when I read the initial comment was: "I think Anibal is a man. I wonder if the other guy knows that." My second thought was that if the guy thought Anibal was a girl, the post was a bit cheeky. Definitely sexist, but compared to the daily grind of BS you get as a woman, it was pretty mild. As the replies to the post came in, I thought "Whoa." I was suprised that there was such immediate condemnation, such a strong, clear line taken against anything that might be percieved as sexist. I liked that people were anxious to ensure that this community remained a space where sexist or racist attitudes were not tolerated. We all strive to make our shops friendly; sometimes this is tricky, as we serve diverse communities with different expectations and standards. It was nice to see the attempt to create a safe space made here, too. I noted with interest that the people involved in both sides of this seemed to be male. Women have been working out all this feminist shit for decades; as a woman, I'd have rolled my eyes at a shaving comment and let it be, saving my worry and attention for something that seemed worth the effort. For example, a "bitch"/"cunt"/"whore" type of thing, or for the kind of shop politics where women end up doing all the cleaning, or the situation where an older male who other guys defer to is rude or mean to female collective members, driving them first to tears and then out. I also care about adequate lighting, and safe buddied up rides home when need be, and child-friendly shops, and women and trans night, and taking the need for more female mechanics seriously. So, in my opinion, the shaving comment, was, as I said, cheeky, and if the write thought Anibal was annibelle, maybe sort of rude, but not worth writing home about. The fact that men were trying to figure out how to create a safe space for women, that was awesome. Thanks. Thanks to all of you, no matter what you wrote, for fretting and stressing and starting to snipe at each other about that issue. It was sort of oddly healing to watch a group of guys working to figure out what is cool and what is not cool. Being called out for sexism or racism or classism or whatever can be embarassing and hurtful and it can seem unfair. The natural tendency is to get defensive, and that happened here. Thanks for writing back anyway. All sorts of things started to get tied into this-- things about hairstyles and politics and beverage choices, considerations of whether what we are doing is social or political, and if either, how... it was a little irritating to read, but also interesting, as people were obviously trying to figure out how all these things fit together. One of the things I love about my community bike shop is the crazy diversity of people who come there. I love our homeless men. I love our two Mormons and our Buhddist monk. I love our fixed gear obsessives, our bike couriers, our single mothers, our homosexual chefs, our senior citizens, and everyone else. I love that while certain similarities exist, we all have really different perspectives, and the weird random conversations about politics or art or whatever that we get into while waiting our turn could go anywhere. (I do think we have a totally disproportionate number of people who believe space aliens intervene in Earth's politics, but maybe that's just me.) That diversity no doubt leads some people to freak out a little. We are always sharing cramped spaces with people who make us a little uncomfortable. Out of that non-politics, comes a politics-- one of diversity, multiplicity, small scales, local things, building and fixing instead of throwing away to buy new, being out in the elements, using our bodies, trusting that our own bodies can do the work, waving to fellow cyclists, assuming that everyone (including the old or children, uneducated people, and people of all genders, etc.) can learn and can teach, sharing tools instead of everyone having to buy their own-- we're plenty political, and even pretty radical, but for my money ***better when we are not assuming a shared ideological outlook or proposing a narrow dogma as our ideal***. Many of the people who come to our shop would hate to have their bike riding connected to Godless Communism; others describe themselves as Maoists, for heaven's sake. I think both those groups are slightly nuts, but whatever. One of the primary reasons I ride my bike is because it gives me pleasure. I feel sexy and strong and good about life when I ride my bike; I'm guessing you all do, too. Knowing about the complicity of the early twentienth century cycling manufacturers in the rubber wars in Congo and Latin America doesn't change my sense that this mode of transportation is the cheapest, most elegant, most liberating, most fun, and just best way of getting around going. Sometimes, that pleasure feels political-- I feel so good, it makes me feel like an outlaw. Thanks for all the earnest angst, folks. It was neat to see you trying to figure some stuff out. If you ended up stressed by each other, I hope you got a chance to ride your bikes to get the kinks out. Sasha P.S. About volunteer surveys-- surveys can be useful, but they are also annoying, and people are complicated. Polls and surveys often get the response that their writers sort of wrote them to get. Just talking to people does actually work, too. I know that I'm underutilized at my shop; everyone knows what I do for a living, and people have a sense of my skill set, and they even talk about needing that kind of help, and I've flat out offered a bunch of times. There are lots of people who come to our shop who have the special skills needed to make it better-- small business people, artists, teachers, computer wizards, etc. But people get their little fiefdoms-- the person who did the fundraiser last year may not want anyone to "take away" her role, or the guy who's been doing the books for two years feels somehow slighted by the thought that buddy-the-accountant (who offers every time he hears whinging about money troubles) might take a look at them. People want help, but sometimes the whole organization seems to live inside the head of a couple of people, and broadening that network seems to be a larger task than just continuing to do things yourselves. There are also touchy issues of people's feelings. This kind of thing goes on in all organizations, and I'm not sure how helpful surveys are when it comes to addressing these things. On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:18:20 -0400 David Hazardous <davidhazardous(a)gmail.com> wrote: >#1 nobody was being sexist. reading all the thinktank posts tells >us that >the one who doesn't shave enough is in fact a man, and as a man, i >also do >not shave enough. i've considered waxing my face. thus, the >response to >shaving being the suggestion to waxing is just a thoughtful >timesaving >maneuver. > >#2 before bikes were used to spread the gospel of a political >system that >doesn't work except for idealist college kids, they were the toys >of rich >people. as in, the common man (proletariat, bolshevik, etc) >couldn't have >one! who knew? > >#3 before cars were stigmatized, bikes were. bikers were >"hotdoggers" >terrorizing horses and pedestrians. > >#4 ever hear of bikes? responsible for paved roads. > >#5 guess what? people drive more than ride. but more jackasses >ride than >drive. i just don't happen to be a hippie or vegan. but i suffer >just as >much for their political views. > >#6 this is hella fun for me, and i'm a good person to boot > >#7 looks like you contributed to this jackass thread. > >#8 undercovercop, hells yes to drinking whiskey but don't you >think that >"retarded bike games" is offensive to retards? (that's a joke, >like the >original "offensive" comment) > ><3 dhx > >i am offically gone from thinktank as fast as i came > >...unless...people act like stupids again. > >p.s. have fun being white and having dreadlocks. maybe we can all >drink some >yerba mate at the sierra club meeting. oops, too conservative. >monkeywrench >gang reprazent! > >On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Geoffrey B <vous.je(a)gmail.com> >wrote: > >> What a jack ass. Threads like these make me not want to >contribute. >> >> Thinking that the bike is not a political tool for change is >deluding, >> selling your self short. British 19 century commies used the >bike to get >> out to factors where the roads have not linked to spread the >word of labour >> rights a liberties. >> >> Cars have been extremely stigmatized. They are a political >force, they are >> killing everything. Dont kid your self about that. Ever heard of >the AAA. >> Responsible for most of the expressways in America. >> >> Dont freak out over being called a hippe vegan. Guess what, >vegans and >> hippies drive more then bike. Its not about sexist comments, >its keeping a >> positive outlook on cycling. Dont degrade your fellow cyclists, >use your >> energy to portray a respectful attitude that motorists lack. >> >> Its not political , its called being a good person. I have fun >being a >> good person, dont you. Being a sexist tyrant creates fun on >another's >> expense. >> >> Canada, >> Geoff >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 10:28 PM, David Hazardous < >> davidhazardous(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > hey jackasses... >> > >> > it's threads like these that make the public not take cycling >seriously. >> > bikes are not a bandwagon for political agendas. bikes are a >mode of >> > transportation. they help people get to work, the store, and >yes, the bar. >> > and people eat meat and make sexist remarks just as much on a >bike. i am so >> > sick of being labeled "vegan" or "hippie" or "liberal" because >i ride a bike >> > and don't own a car. hey fringe culture: stop co-opting a yet- >unstigmatized >> > vehicle to turn it into a political soapbox. NOT ALL BIKERS >ARE IDEALIST >> > TEETOTALERS. bikes aren't going to save the world, they're >just going to >> > give a few people reliable transportation. and fun. remember >that? fun? >> > >> > flame me all you want, >> > dhx >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:11 PM, <undercovercop(a)riseup.net> >wrote: >> > >> > > wow, michael, i'm sure you meant this in jest, but making >cracks about >> > > a >> > > woman having to wax to impress is pretty horribly sexist and >leaves a >> > > real bad taste in my mouth. >> > > >> > > and perhaps you have an understanding with anibal that this >kind of >> > > joking around is okay. i have lots of friends i know i can >safely >> > > tease >> > > in all sorts of offensive ways. however, this is a public >list with >> > > lots of folks who don't know one another. especially since >you say you >> > > don't know annibal, it's really tempting to read your joke >as >> > > straight-up sexist bullshit. >> > > >> > > given how much really good thought and discussion i've seen >this >> > > community put into identifying and rooting out sexist >bullshit, i >> > > gotta >> > > say i think you're out of line. >> > > >> > > hope you don't take offense, >> > > benB >> > > chicago community bike project >> > > >> > > -- >> > > 'every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his >hands, >> > > hoist >> > > the black flag, and begin slitting throats.' >> > > -h.l. mencken >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Thethinktank mailing list >> > > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org >> > > >> > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- >bikecollectives.org >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Thethinktank mailing list >> > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org >> > >> > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- >bikecollectives.org >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> "Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia" - H.G. Wells >> _______________________________________________ >> Thethinktank mailing list >> Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org >> >> http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank- >bikecollectives.org >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify Charset: UTF8 Version: Hush 3.0 wkYEARECAAYFAkfd3ZMACgkQ5O7ahKJmrRlPZwCgnzf8gkFYUbyeXCJEJm1MC3RnSjEA n0UoJbvnHIbsYRTaqgke9EVNpSPh =LauN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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