- TheThinkTank - lists.bikecollectives.org

formalizing shop use
by Macho Philipovich 05 Mar '08

05 Mar '08

hey folks. for our first 2.5 years, we've set up our open hours very informally. you show up, you can rip through used parts on your own, pick out a bike to fix up on your own, fix it up on your own, or ask for help fixing your bike if you like, too. this has been great, because it's offered a lot of people access to the shop without feeling overly regimented, but toward the end of each summer (peak season), the shop has gotten really chaotic, and some volunteers have started feeling pretty anxious, with all repair stands in use, more people all over the floor with their bikes turned upside down, kids running around all over the place, people asking for help every 30 seconds when you're already helping someone else, and it just being tricky to keep an eye on everything that's going on in the shop. so, we're looking to move toward a setup where people all have to sign in with a greeter and get assigned to a volunteer to work with, and if there are no free volunteers/stands, you have to wait. i'm sure most other shops are already doing this, so i thought i'd ask for your experiences/strategies/advice. some specific questions: - do you have separate sign-up sheets for quick repairs vs. say building a bike up from scratch? - do you offer a comfy area to wait for those who need to? - do you let people work on bikes without a volunteer? - if so, do you make them "prove" that they know how to use the tools properly or respect the shop? - do you have one volunteer set up at a "flat fixing" station? - how well does all of this stuff work? but feel free to discuss things that those questions don't touch on. thanks everybody, this list is such an amazing resource, macho of the bike dump

4 3

who's got membership?
by Jessica McPherson 05 Mar '08

05 Mar '08

Hello everyone, I am wondering who out there has tried having membership requirements, and how that has worked. Has it resulted in greater volunteer committment? How has it affected the demographics of the people that use the shop? Has anyone tried a set-up kind of like a food cooperative, where you have to volunteer hours at the shop in order to be able to use it? thanks, Jessica (Free Ride, Pittsburgh) -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Thethinktank mailing list Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

5 4

Re: [TheThinkTank] formalizing shop use
by Bob Giordano 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

it comes in cycles... simple clean shop with 5-12 happy people working at stands with 2-3 vols helping as needed... then boom, shop is over full, 3 hands reach for one chain tool, small kids want help now! so... a year ago we formalized a 'bikewell' program. if you want to build a bike from the 'well' (our sideyard stocked with everything) we ask that you take a class and volunteer 2 hours. 5 different vols teach the classes that are offered 3 times a week. 3 vols run the vol. night. the class covers basic bike laws, basic maintenance, and a _shop orientation_. this one change in our program has brought just enough 'order.' we do have a nice sitting/conversing area too. like austin, we have about 12 stands, and some share tool boards. a solution we would like to see someday: open many more hours, like 10am-7pm daily. but we are all-volunteer like many others. i'm off at city meetings all the time advocating for a connected bicycle infrastruture. but it does work- we trust about 20 people with keys to the shop, and they get it done. sure we lose a tool now and then, and maybe someone that did not take the class gets a sweet bike. we bend 'rules' a lot, and try to stay fair to all. each person that comes thru the door is a relationship not a customer. our donation jar brings in about $600 a month- just enough to cover $500 rent and $100 utilities. tools are always being donated, or bought with extra shop funds and small neighborhood grants. other: -average 30 visitors per 4 hours open shop session -average 3-5 vols running each 4 hour shift (4 shifts per week) -inside space 2,000 sq ft., outside 1,000 -given away 4,000 bikes since '96 -50 green loaner bikes in circulation ($10 deposit, comes with lock, light, basket, fenders) (in process of getting them all sponsored by local businesses- for $100 a year business gets a small logo on basket, or they can decorate the bike) -one section of the shop is 'Pedal Technology' for trailer building, etc. -'people's projects' get tagged (name, date, phone) and can stay at shop for 2 weeks, then it can go back into the 'well'. -we have an annual 'festival of cycles' that is like one huge open shop session- we bring all stuff to a park, invite mechanics and musicians, and we all help each other build bikes that people ride away. (4/19/08) -we have 4 'log books' at the front of the shop: guest book, checkout log, bikewell log, financial log -i can send more info or e-docs of anything in this email... -bob giordano free cycles missoula

1 0

direct-pull brake levers v. everything else
by Erik Stockmeier 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

sheldon brown (r.i.p.) went on at length all over his website about not mixing direct-pull ("V" brake, noodle brake) brake levers with any other type of brakes & vice versa. here is one quote, from http://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html : Direct-pull cantilevers have double the mechanical advantage compared with traditional brakes, so they require special brake levers. Direct-pull brake levers pull the cable twice as far, half as hard. The lower mechanical advantage of the lever compensates for the higher M.A. of the cantilever. It is not generally safe to mix and match levers/cables between direct pull and other types for this reason. * Conventional brake levers used with direct-pull cantilevers will usually not pull enough cable to stop in wet conditions without bottoming out against the handlebars. In dry conditions, they either won't work, or will grab too suddenly. * Direct-pull brake levers used with any other type of brakes will feel nice and solid when you squeeze them, but due to their lower mechanical advantage you'll need to squeeze twice as hard to stop as you should, so unless you are a lightweight rider with gorilla-like paws, this combination isn't safe either. ...end quote so my question is this... do i need to go through my personal collection of brake levers and somehow identify/separate DP levers from the rest? is there any simple way to do this? it seems like a problem i've seen many people run in to--the brakes seem fine on the stand, nonexistant when the bike goes out for a test ride. so this is probably something we should be on the lookout for, right? ok, thanks erik of course there is this huge and boring page as well: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html#mechanical

5 5

NOLA and back
by Derek Dunham 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

Hello All My name is Derek Dunham and I am both an activist and a cyclist. My birthday falls on August 29th, the day hurricane katrina touched down in New Orleans. Ever since then I have felt a drive to get down there and help, but I had not been able to yet. Skybus has tickets from Greensboro, NC to New Orleans, LA for only 40 dollars. I want to fly, and then either ship a bike to myself, or acquire one while I am there, possibly through a collective. There are a couple in the city. Ideal situation would be to have one waiting for me so I could have transportation while I am there, but I am seeking a touring bike, because when I leave, I want to pedal back. I don't yet know exactly how I am going to help, or what organization, if any, I will work through. I would love to get involved with Brad Pitt's project, but I don't even know if that would be possible. I also really want to look into getting my ride back sponsored somehow. I would like to be able to make money for the causes I work with as well as help them while I'm there. If anyone has any suggestions or advice as to how I might be able to pull this off, I'd really appreciate it. -- Derek Dunham

1 0

First Aid in your shop
by Rich Points 03 Mar '08

03 Mar '08

Collectives, At Community Cycles we have a couple of first aid kits that we keep on the peg boards with the tools. Some people know they're there others don't. The kits get used, mostly band aids and aspirin. We don't have a formal way of replenishing things from the kit as they are used. How does your shop handle first aid and keep the supplies stocked? -- Rich Points Community Cycles Director http://CommunityCycles.org Rich(a)CommunityCycles.org 720-565-6019

2 1

bike racks
by Liza Mattana 02 Mar '08

02 Mar '08

Hey, is there a group on this list, or does someone know of group, that is working to put more bike racks in place? a friend of mine is working with our city for more bike facilities, and i mentioned that there are bike groups around that work to put racks out there for folks. did i imagine this, or do those groups really exist? please let me know if you do this kind of work, and if you do, what kind of racks are you building and/or using. or maybe you know of someone and send me a link. thanks, liza -- Liza Mattana www.pedals2people.org Spokane, WA

3 2

Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike Shop Competition
by troy neiman 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

I would like to agree with Jonathan and add to his points of establishing communication with your LBS. Keep in mind that the more people on bikes is better for everyone and especially bike shop business in general. I have found that in the case of anyone that is buying/fixing a bike at our community shop will inevitably need a retail store to buy parts/labor from at some point, and might I add that many folks who come to BICAS are just getting in to the idea of riding a bike for transportation and will many times upgrade once they get to enjoy that idea. Also, a bike rider that can fix their own flat tire, lube the chain and diagnose the problems is a happy rider and far less likely to become frustrated and stop riding all together. At BICAS we do stock some necessary new parts such as cables, some tubes and tires, chains, and simple locks/lights (priced the same as LBS as not to undercut) which we order directly from QBP or J&B importers. We do not advertise the new parts but make known the availability of these items when needed. These are also the distributors we use to get our tools. I myself work part time at BICAS and part at the LBS and can say first hand that this is an essential and benificial relationship for both. We send many folks to the LBS for newer and specific parts that we may not have and they send folks down for older, used or obsolete parts that they don't have and it works great for both. I have also noticed that when I tell someone about BICAS when I am working at the LBS they are thrilled to know about the resource and usually impressed at the honesty and collaboration between the two, which equals loyal customers. Truth is some people are Community bike people and some are bike shop people and if we can work together that means more people on bikes and more business for everyone so lets get people on bikes people! Troy Neiman BICAS Tucson, AZ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "the816bikecollective Kansascity" <the816bike(a)gmail.com> > To: "The Think Tank" <thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org> > Subject: Re: [TheThinkTank] Bike Shop Competition > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:22:44 -0500 > > > Hey, I'm Sean with the not yet operational 816 Bicycle Collective in Kansas > City, MO. We've raised money already by holding a benefit event. We had > bands, food, and fun, and we charged a five dollar suggested donation. In > order to help us, we had some really kick ass bands. As far as spare parts > go, we've been posting all over the board asking for old parts for the last > 10 months. This actually created an excess of parts. In order to try to > avoid competition with the LBSs, we presented them (at their request) with > information about who we are and what we're doing. > > There is one LBS in our area that has helped us getting tools at cost, but > they're an owner operated company that has long wondered where the > collective was in KC. We're lucky. Basically, money and parts are free, they > just take a lot of organized effort. We have a cap of something like $80 for > all bike sales. We only sell bikes to raise funds, so basically we don't > sell bikes out of the shop. If there's a nice bike we come into and we need > money, we'll try to get it to someone via craigslist or word of mouth. > > One more thing, I personally work as a mechanic at an LBS (not the owner > operated one) and rather than an interview from my current employer, I was > basically interrogated as to how my being employed by him and being a > volunteer at the collective was not a conflict of interest. > > Again, we're not yet operational, so take this advice as you will. Also feel > free to check out our myspace page, > http://www.myspace.com/the816bicyclecollective. Look at our blog and you'll > find some specifics about our soon to be operation. Best of luck!!! > > -Sean in the 816 > > On 2/27/08, Stuart O Anderson <soa(a)ri.cmu.edu> wrote: > > > > I'm familiar with Devil Gear, and they have some unique features that > > make this difficult. Unlike most the LBS's we have in Pittsburgh, > > Devils Gear sells repaired used bikes in the 100-150 dollar range. > > That puts them in competition for both resources and market segments > > with a volunteer based community shop that's fixing up bikes for sale. > > Last time I was in New Haven they were charging about double what we > > would have priced bikes for at Free Ride, but had a somewhat higher > > median quality of bike. They also stock a fair selection of new > > bikes. > > > > I'd suggest that the New Haven collective try to avoid competition for > > now by focusing on educational program rather than bike sales. I.E. > > offering a 3 week, 6 session class in bike mechanics for adults or > > offering a build-a-bike program to local youth organizations, or > > having a sponsored tune-up-day event at one of the local universities. > > These sorts of programs take a little more effort to set up, but > > could be quite profitable. > > > > We get our parts through QBP (Quality Bike Parts) - you'll need to > > have liability insurance to get an account with them. > > > > Stuart > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Morrison > > <jonathan(a)slcbikecollective.org> wrote: > > > Most of the problems I have seen in other cities are due to poor > > > communication and misunderstandings. This is my pitch, it works in salt > > > lake city -- feel free to use, modify, and/or ignore it. > > > > > > Community Bike Shops don't compete with Local Bike Shops (LBS), instead > > they > > > form a tight symbiotic relationship. Why? > > > > > > First, we serve different demographics. We serve the people that can't > > > afford or are scared of the LBS. Someone can buy a bike from a thrift > > store > > > for $25, a bike from Walmart for $100 or a low end bike from a LBS for > > $350. > > > We sell bikes anywhere from $50 to $150, so if anything we compete with > > > Walmart, but they don't seem to care. If someone can't afford a bike at > > > your LBS, send them to us! If someone is looking for a nicer bike and > > has > > > money to spend we will send them to you! > > > > > > Second, we create business for the LBS! While we have our own > > distributor > > > accounts, they are reserved for our most dedicated volunteers, everyone > > else > > > we redirect to the LBS. Our shop is open from 5-9pm so we tell them if > > they > > > can make it make it to the LBS before it closes (7PM), they could make > > it > > > back in time to install the part. > > > > > > Third, we are a tax writeoff! Get rid of used, new, old stock and make > > room > > > for things that can sell! Give it to us, and not only can you go to > > sleep > > > knowing it went into good hands -- you can get a much needed tax > > writeoff. > > > We will also publicize the fact you help your community by doing so. > > > > > > Fourth, we are your source for future mechanics. Not sure who to hire? > > > While our volunteers don't always deal with the high-end bikes, we can > > > recommend potential employees based on the more important things like > > their > > > ability to learn, reliability, ability to take direction, and their > > level of > > > customer service and passion for cycling. We train them to the point > > where > > > they could be molded into the perfect employee. > > > > > > -- > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Jonathan Morrison > > > Executive Director > > > Salt Lake City Bicycle Collective > > > 2312 S. West Temple > > > Salt Lake City, UT 84115 > > > w: 801-328-2453 > > > c: 801-688-0183 > > > f: 801-466-3856 > > > www.slcbikecollective.org > > > > > > Get Addicted to Crank! > > > http://www.slcbikecollective.org/crank/ > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Cris Shirley <cgshirley(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey! > > > > So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the support > > > > of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said that he > > > > would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well, now he is > > > > feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a direction > > > > that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up > > > > money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we have.) > > > > Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was wondering if > > > > anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? > > > > How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and tires, and > > > chains? > > > > Thanks > > > > cris > > > > > > > > On 2/25/08, Edward France <edfrance(a)bicicentro.org> wrote: > > > > > Bike Peeps - Thought about taking a weekend out in Santa Barbara? > > > > > This is the perfect time, and we'll do our best to find hosting for > > > > > cooks, clerks, wrenches, and other forms of shop creatures that > > travel > > > > > out to celebrate with us. > > > > > > > > > > Save the Date- > > > > > Dia de Bici Cultura- the Grand Opening of Bici > > > > > Centro's new retail/educational/shop space in Santa Barbara. April > > 5th > > > > > will mark the event with Bike Art, Bike People and Bike Fun, BBQ, > > > > > evening reception with dinner, and a night ride. > > > > > > > > > > After a year of once monthly repair days, months of once weekly > > shop, > > > > > and infinite hours of shuffling around our stuff to serve in a > > modular > > > > > manner, Bici Centro finds its own 1,200 sq ft. space. We've got our > > > > > youth Earn-a-bike churning out bikes and biking kids, community > > > > > support, and a solid core of 15 volunteers working to get SB cycling > > > > > in style. > > > > > > > > > > A more detailed invite to be sent out this week. > > > > > > > > > > <a href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrudolfx/2285845544/' > > > > > title='Bicicentroopening by xRUDOLFx, on Flickr'><img > > > > > src=' > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2285845544_744700953e_b.jpg' > > > > > width='1024' height='775' alt='Bicicentroopening' /></a> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Thethinktank mailing list > > > > > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Thethinktank mailing list > > > > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Thethinktank mailing list > > > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > > > > > > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Thethinktank mailing list > > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > > > > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > -- Want an e-mail address like mine? Get a free e-mail account today at www.mail.com!

2 1

further thought on bike shop competition
by AndaLaLucha 28 Feb '08

28 Feb '08

Hello, Another positive symbiotic aspect of the LBS/Recycled Bike Collective relationship that wasn't mentioned yet is that of the repair. Countless people buy used bikes from Free Ride in some state of disrepair and then bring them to a Local Bike Shop to be repaired. This is because we only teach people how to do repairs, and don't actually repair the bikes for them. Many people have limited time, energy etc. and it is easier for them to bring their bike in to another shop for reapir. So even if people are getting the bikes in working condition from a recycled bike shop, they may later bring the bikes in to a LBS for repairs. Also, I have seen many people get their first bike at Free Ride! and then when they get really into biking, upgrade and get a nicer bike at a Local Bike Shop. Additionally, a local bike retail shop, Gatto's, that was down the street from us, loved our proximity because they could send all the people with shitty Huffy's etc. to us for repair help, instead of them having to tell the people that the repairs would cost more than the bike itself. Bike on, Andalusia

1 0

Bike Shop Competition
by Cris Shirley 28 Feb '08

28 Feb '08

Hey! So we are starting a bike collective in New Haven, and had the support of our local bike shop Devil's Gear Bikes where the owner said that he would provide parts at cost and help us out on stuff. Well, now he is feeling treaten because he thinks we might start moving in a direction that may in competition with him (right now we need some start up money so we are going to fix up and sell some of the bikes we have.) Note that we have not given one bike away yet. So, I was wondering if anyone had any experiences of this sort and how they were managed? How do y'all get parts for bikes like cables and tubes and tires, and chains? Thanks cris On 2/25/08, Edward France <edfrance(a)bicicentro.org> wrote: > Bike Peeps - Thought about taking a weekend out in Santa Barbara? > This is the perfect time, and we'll do our best to find hosting for > cooks, clerks, wrenches, and other forms of shop creatures that travel > out to celebrate with us. > > Save the Date- > Dia de Bici Cultura- the Grand Opening of Bici > Centro's new retail/educational/shop space in Santa Barbara. April 5th > will mark the event with Bike Art, Bike People and Bike Fun, BBQ, > evening reception with dinner, and a night ride. > > After a year of once monthly repair days, months of once weekly shop, > and infinite hours of shuffling around our stuff to serve in a modular > manner, Bici Centro finds its own 1,200 sq ft. space. We've got our > youth Earn-a-bike churning out bikes and biking kids, community > support, and a solid core of 15 volunteers working to get SB cycling > in style. > > A more detailed invite to be sent out this week. > > <a href='http://www.flickr.com/photos/xrudolfx/2285845544/' > title='Bicicentroopening by xRUDOLFx, on Flickr'><img > src='http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2285845544_744700953e_b.jpg' > width='1024' height='775' alt='Bicicentroopening' /></a> > > _______________________________________________ > Thethinktank mailing list > Thethinktank(a)bikecollectives.org > http://lists.bikecollectives.org/listinfo.cgi/thethinktank-bikecollectives.… > > >

6 5